Weekly Move Discussion [Week 20~ Up Smash]

[Airgemini]

This may be false but I've read somewhere that when you footstool someone you can always Nair them and hit them.

 

[White-Peach]

Reiterating what people are saying, its sexy for edgeguarding (depending on what direction you're facing and where the other guy is), OOS (instafloat NAir>Drop from behind them, or rising NAir while DI'ing away while facing them to avoid shieldgrabs), and interrupting people. NAir also outprioritizes a lot of projectiles, namely pit's arrows and zelda's din's fire, allowing you an unhindered approach (dash>float NAir>drop>dash). Along with BAir, you can rack damage with it if you release your float while hitting them (well within their "hurtbox") and score 2 hits.

I'm inclined to agree with Takumaru about the hit from behind, i've noticed similar results when popping a NAir OOS and DI'ing her legs/arms into the other guy. It might just be that the arm she holds higher (and her legs) is easier to hit with, and makes use of the stronger hitboxes during the early frames of the attack. I'll have to go check later.

I've accidentaly done the footstool NAir thing a lot (seems floating initiates a footstool) while positioning my NAir, and they get caught in it by accident... on purpose :D

I like the NAir a lot, and it has its uses from time to time, but my playstyle just lets BAir shine (facing backwards, RAR, and too much pivoting :3) where i'd be forced to use a "nerfed" NAir. NAir is more for a full-body, relatively high-priority hitbox thats easier to use with forward movement when you want to (and always should) save your FAir.

 

[TigerWoods]

This may be false but I've read somewhere that when you footstool someone you can always Nair them and hit them.

Kind of what white peach said....

I don't think it is an "always" kind of thing but it works all the time. I guess the surprisefactor and the fact your really going to land that only a few times in a set make it hard to see coming....


Anyway peach is just full of those "huh I didn't know she could do that..." moves... mindgames all the way!

 

[BurtonEarny]

At first I dont use it at all really. But then, I noticed its a fast move that can save you from having to stale a fair or bair if your close enough... the tradeoff being range. I really like it, and it can kill. A move that like the more I learn when to use it.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Yeah, I posted about the footstool to neutral air in the Rob discussion a few weeks back. It's great on anyone heavy and large, because it'll often times stage spike them . I learned it on accident as well.

Neutral air is also an amazing combo breaker as Praxis said about ROB's f-air chains. You can neutral air of of anyone jabs combos in the entire game. This includes Sheik's forward tilt combos. Heck, one time I neutral ai'rd out of tornado. I'm perfectly serious. I don't know how reliable it is, but considering it' sbeen done before..i want to test it and see if you can DI some direction while in the tornado to be able to perform a neutral air out of it.

Villi: Wow you ALWAYS teach me something really good. Shielding the glide attack to downsmash!? That's PERFECT. Wow.

 

[deepseadiva]

Heck, one time I neutral ai'rd out of tornado. I'm perfectly serious.

I do that sometimes too. I think there's a trick to it we dunno yet.
(OMG A DEFENSE TO THE TORNADO PEOPLE)

 

[TigerWoods]

I think during the tornado most MKs dont realize that peach is harder to keep from coming out the top...but if peach comes out the top SLIGHTLY just nair.... basicly i try to float out and spam atack button...

 

[Airgemini]

So does anyone have any opinions on this new frame data of her Nair?

 

[deepseadiva]

Nair:
First hits on frame 3
Landing lag: 11
Hit lag: 10
Shield stun: 14
Advantage: -7
KO Potential: 144%

I don't understand this "advantagg: -7" thing, but otherwise this thing is FAST.

 

[TigerWoods]

and pretty... she spins around...

anyway is the hitbox just on her hands? It seems like I can hit people if they are even on peach....(not near her hands)

 

[deepseadiva]

Think about it. Seeing as this is a 2D game, her spinning hands make a line across her body - instead of a circle with a "hole" (which Peach is inside).

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

*Casts Revive*

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I'd like to point out that shielding the glide attack to downsmash (advice given earlier in this thread) only works sometimes. If they are positioned right and fast enough you will still get hit by his downsmash after his glide attack lands. Be careful. I've been trying it with only moderate success.

 

[Rockin]

Well, the Nair is pretty useful. The hitbox is nearly all over her body (like from arm area to nearly the bottom of her dress). This is probably why Peach is able to nair out of the tornado.

There's several options you can do with the Nair. It's a nice edgeguard and a follow up to a Uthrow. Priorities may not be the same like it used to, but it's still considered a good move.

 

[Airgemini]

Omg guys Im so sorry I couldnt update this yesterday! I recently moved to a differnet appartment and our internet isn't up so im at a library.

Anyways this week is the Peach Bomber.

This move looked pretty good in the demos, it looked so spammable and the knockback and everything was better. In my opinion I think they nerfed it down a bit from the demos.

Its still a great move though. There are three types of Peach Bombers you can do (none of them vary in damage, just range). You can do the slingshot Bomber which will send you back a bit and then launch forward (has less range then the other two), I sometimes hit opponents behind me by doing this. The second is the regular Peach Bomber (has a balance of range between the other two). And the last is the Smash Bomber which is when you smash the control stick as if doing a smash and by doing that you'll actually gain more distance then the regular Bomber.

This move is awesome if you connect with a recovering opponent like Link or any other characters with poor verticle recoveries. Since the Bomber has a little semi spike to it it should kill those characters pretty easily.

Whew. So does anyone think this move is better to use in the air or ground?
And please discuss more. The Nair got about only a page and a half of discussion.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

HUP CHAAAA!!!!

I'll add a more detailed analysis tomorrow. Work with what I've given you atm

 

[TigerWoods]

Peach bomber can gimp alot of recoveries due to its amazing priority (IKES UPB... BYE BYE)

I like its use either way though... it's not a spammable move because it is easily punished on the ground though... but usefull for taking out rollers....

oh and i noticed sometimes it sends oponents in the oposite direction from peach.... anyone had this happen???

and sometimes i do the peach bomber hit effect(peach jumps back and hearts come out) but theres no damage(when oponents shield)

anyone know about this stuff^ ? isnt it suposed to go through shields(as in completely miss them)

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Sorry I couldn't help myself...alright here goes

Peach Bomber is a ****ing brilliant move. It has some pretty sick priority, comes out thick and fast and has huge knockback. It's only downside is that it's laggy if it misses.

My personal favourite use is to:

Catch someone off guard -> Use Peach Bomber -> Hit opponent -> Hold jump so I'm floating and wait for the enemy to stand up/roll -> Floating Dair the **** out of them

Peach Bomber does go through sheilds but if your opponent's sheild is small, then Peach Bomber can go through them and hit the back of the opponent which makes them fly towards the direction you came from.

It's an excellent surprise approach method and good for keeping the pressure on. Just be careful not to spam it because your opponent can easily walk backwards and punish you

 

[Airgemini]

Peach bomber can gimp alot of recoveries due to its amazing priority

What? The beginning and near end of this attack can be canceled by almost every attack in the game, even Peach's jab can cancel it.

Unless you were being sarcastic.

 

[TigerWoods]

my woridng is a bit off^

i mean against recoveries... really try it! it stops ikes aether....

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

my woridng is a bit off^

i mean against recoveries... really try it! it stops ikes aether....

Seriously? I just position myself close to the edge and Toad Ike's Up +B/Side B at the right moment...90% of Ikes don't make it back whenever I do that Does Peach Bombing him work well?

 

[Morrigan]

You forgot to mention that it's good for recovery.

It's really punishable when you miss it because you are left so open for attacks.

A Bomber followed up by a Fair is a good move when the opponent is less than 10%

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

And that it works very well against edgehoggers because it sends them straight downwards in most cases (I lol so much when that happens)

 

[TigerWoods]

if you do it close enough... they oponent doesnt hear the CHAA part of the move(which is generaly the warning to get out of the way or shield...)

so sometimes they just stand there confused... and then are launched in an explosion of hearts...

its also an option for removing edgeguarding oponents... including ledge hoggers...... sweet spots the ledge =D

 

[deepseadiva]

I LOVE THIS MOVE. Srsly. It's basically Peach's surprise card. I use it constantly.

So because I'm not too good at organization, some various thoughts:

- Use it against Snake's cypher.

- I love the knockback on this thing - but I rarely KO with it. I find it odd.

- Opponents usually either fall for it all the time, or none of the time.

- Use it on Jungle Japes in the center-bottom platform and cancel it by sweet spotting the edge.

- Spamming it against a smart opponent is not good. Might as well spam Toad. This thing's lag is PUNISHABLE.

Its still a great move though. There are three types of Peach Bombers you can do (none of them vary in damage, just range). You can do the slingshot Bomber which will send you back a bit and then launch forward (has less range then the other two), I sometimes hit opponents behind me by doing this. The second is the regular Peach Bomber (has a balance of range between the other two). And the last is the Smash Bomber which is when you smash the control stick as if doing a smash and by doing that you'll actually gain more distance then the regular Bomber.

I had no idea about this. Or the Aether thing. Or the-hit-behind-their-shield thing.

I'm loving this thread.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

-I do not use this move if characters have a move that punish me with a KO (After I'm past 100%)
-I do not spam this move

What I do like to use this move for is;

-Recovery. It forces opponents off the ledge. If they take too long its a free spike gimp kill.
-Near the ledges on the stage. I space myself so if I miss, I will grab the ledge or go off the stage(essentially lag free)
-I use it to techchase and follow people's trips. It's come to the point where if I see someone trip, my instant reaction is to use this move. Gets 'em everytime.
-I will space the move by running away a couple of steps away or toward first. That litle juking can really get people to get hit by it.

When I notice someone caught on to the movie I immediately stop using it because it can be punished hard, by say a marth tipper. If I notice it works well I use it a ton.

 

[Takumaru]

I use this move... too much. Seriously sometimes I have to actively back off on it just because I like it so much. I don't even have a practical reason.

Practical uses for this move:
Punishing rolls.
Foxtrot juking.
ledge recovery. The ledge is uber easy to ledge grab and it makes peach a bit harder to edgegaurd.
Stopping falco and fox from recovering using their phatasms (lollerskates).
Making sound effects and hearts appear.

Umm... something really odd is sometimes people shield this attack but peach will bounce of and the heart animation will show. Half of the time I bounce and land with lag, half the time I can float. Someone figure this out so we can abuse this. I'm sure I use this move for other things but I can't remember. I'm currently brawl-less and the short amount of time I got to use someone else's wii I used lucario...

 

[TigerWoods]

^ yes thats what i said above about the shield hit thing....

its great besides its just TOO punishible....

 

[Praxis]

and sometimes i do the peach bomber hit effect(peach jumps back and hearts come out) but theres no damage(when oponents shield)

I think this happens when they powershield it.

 

[Morrigan]

And it will eat their shields and hit them if it's half consumed.

I have a question...if you hit them with this move when they are at 0% damage, is the hitstun long enough to follow with a Fair? Or is it just bad DI? Because I always land a Fair after I hit them with the bomber at very low percents.

 

[Villi]

I hardly ever use this move except to recover. I usually chase rollers with a dash attack or sometimes grab, but I can see how this would be the safer option out of all of those. It would also punish sidesteppers and people who'll wait there with a smash or counter, possibly?

Hum... Oh, actually, if people compulsively roll toward me after getting knocked on the ground, I'll Peach bomber them 3 or 4 times as they roll into it.

 

[Morrigan]

It would also punish sidesteppers and people who'll wait there with a smash or counter, possibly?

Beware of that, unless you are facing Captain Falcon or something, if you time it wrong you'll land right in their attack...or is it just me, when I do that I'm like: **** IM AN IDIOT and scream it out loud.

 

[ApplesOfDoom]

And it will eat their shields and hit them if it's half consumed.

I have a question...if you hit them with this move when they are at 0% damage, is the hitstun long enough to follow with a Fair? Or is it just bad DI? Because I always land a Fair after I hit them with the bomber at very low percents.

Im pretty sure that you can follow with fair. But at lower percents they can recover faster, and if you do use fair your opponent might powershield it. It usually happens to me. Maybe I just don't have proper spacing >_>

 

[TimeSmash]

Peach Bomber can be beaten by a lot of things, so I tend to use it randomly when the need arises. It's not the best escape move, but it's possible to use this to space yourself sometimes, with faster opponents almost never because of lag. I use this to recover to the ledge because it's safer than the parasol, and you can even use this a little below the edge because of the initial boost upward Peach gets when the move starts.

You can sometimes use Peach's Side B when you're right next to an opponent in the air and get away with a quick Bomber. It's risky but has its uses, mainly for surprise though.

I've had several strange things happen with the Bomber. The sheild thing mentioned has happened before, and there have been several times I can remember where the move hit at the last second in the air. It's really strange; up to maybe two seconds after she flies forwards, she descends, but her hip connected with the airborne opponent. Maybe it's only happened to me? I can't seem to explain it well, sorry.

As we all know, slopes just hate this move. You just slide upwards in a funny-looking animation. It's sort of a fast movement, but I'm not usre if it could be used for anything. Stupid lag.

The only place a Wall Bomb exists is Shadow Moses Island, because of its destructible walls. There's not really a point in doing it but it's fun to do, and can be used for a defensive move because the heart explosion is so big. I'm not familiar with Shadow Moses' standing though, memory sucks. Is it just a counterpick or neutral?

 

[BurtonEarny]

I like peach bomber, as long as you dont overuse it, its fairly random and can be used from a good distance... Also, I like it for recovery. Killing w/ it off the edge is just too awesome.(dont try it though)

 

[Villi]

Beware of that, unless you are facing Captain Falcon or something, if you time it wrong you'll land right in their attack...or is it just me, when I do that I'm like: **** IM AN IDIOT and scream it out loud.

I really don't use this move so I wouldn't know. I was hoping someone might shine some light here for me.

The situation I had in mind is pretty common, I guess. You're spaced so you have a couple of beats where you can run and then dash attack. They have a lot of defensive options against this approach, shield grab, side step, roll back, roll toward, quick smash attack, etc.

What I usually do when I'm being overly aggressive is chase them down with dairs or try to predict their roll by running an extra bit and then dash attacking. If they decide to sidestep instead, I can sometimes react with a bair, but if they decided to smash I get punished.

Invincibility from a normal spot dodge wears off after the 20th frame and Peach Bomber's hitbox comes out on the 20th frame. Peach's fsmash for example comes out about the 14th frame and probably has at least 6 frames of punishable lag. Probably depending on the character, you can space yourself to also punish their rolling backward while also being spaced to punish their sidestep, smash attack, timed shield grab whiff. Or maybe you'll just land in front of them and suffer whatever punishment they can think of. Ionno.

 

[Silent_Rain]

I actually like using this move mainly because like many others stated, it catches some of my opponents off guard. In Melee, the vast majority of Peach players would never really use it and now in Brawl, it goes further. I remember I would use the move at the last tourney I went to and everyone was like "o.o" since they would just see a huge heart come out of no where.

Anyways, yes this move is risky to use. and like TimeSmash previously stated, I use this move randomly went the situation arises and I feel like I will get the hit; just to throw it into my mix. Also it is good for recovery especially to grab the ledge. I guess I'm just restating what everyone else has said.

Just don't overuse this move because a simple dodge, shield, or even some of the character's jabs that I've noticed like Marth's can't put an end to the attack. I think my Peach was grabbed once to when she was lunging her hip towards my opponent. If you miss, any smart opponent will take advantage of the lag afterwards and punish you.

It's a cool looking move, but one that should not be used often. It's most certainly not the best move in the game. If it was stronger, which I wished it would be since it's risky to use, it would be a better move. It's more flashy and a move to use to show off more than a good offensive move in my opinion. Point is, just figure out the right time when to use it. :3

 

[Airgemini]

there have been several times I can remember where the move hit at the last second in the air. It's really strange; up to maybe two seconds after she flies forwards, she descends, but her hip connected with the airborne opponent. Maybe it's only happened to me? I can't seem to explain it well, sorry.

This too has happened to me, its like you use it, then like at the very very end of it you get a hit off of it.... Kinda wierd if you ask me..

Anyways, do you guys think its safer to use this in the air or on the ground?

 

[TigerWoods]

I say air or something... if you can float afterwards its pretty decent at avoiding punishment.... Jungle japes for auto cancel =D !!!

Ground is only if you know it will hit...

 

[TimeSmash]

I agree with TigerWoods. Ground has a tad too much lag for me, and you can sometimes land that weird hit.

Does using Bomber against a destructible stage object (pillars in Lugi's Mansion, Shadow Moses walls, etc) refresh your stale moves? Forgive me, I've forgotten a bit on the whole decay/renewal system.