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Ok, i dunno what version you're talkin about, so im going to speak in American, the only language i understand.I know Dr Mario counters Sheik (part of the reason he was top tier in Japan) but who counters Dr Mario?
I completely agree, don't get me wrong. Falcon and Sheik are definitely his hardest fights. Sheik is just more aggravating for me. It seems like everything she does outranges and outspeeds you, plus she can edge guard you soo much more efficiently than Falcon.Captain falcon is flat out harder than sheik, period.
Capfal is completely mobile. He's so much faster than doc that approach with d.air is completely viable, because doc REALLY cant defend himself against it.
Yeah, if doc gets a grab on capfal, that can lead to death by chaingrabbing and tech chasing, but you have to grab capfal first. That is so hard to do against a good capfal because again, he is not going to stand still. You have NOTHING to realistally make him stay in place.
Sheik is in her own right just as hard to grab, and she can actually FORCE you to come to her by way of needles. Even with that, she can annhilate your approach with f.tilts and f.airs. If you grab her, you get a chaingrab that you have to end at some point and hope to keep her in grab. If she grabs you, she is atleast guarenteed a f.tilt and a f.air. The one thing you can do in this matchup that is extremely important is that you can stop her from jumping over your shield. That's important because you can put up a fight against stuff like b.air -> grab.
Dont get me wrong, it's not that sheik isnt hard, it's actually a fairly ******** matchup. But it gets edged out by capfal.
I agree that Falcon and Shiek are pretty hard matchups for Doc but Marth is by far his most difficult. Marth can outspace him fairly easily due to Doc's mediocre reach. I also agree with what Dogy said and that Doc has no real counters, only difficult matchups. As hard as Marth, Shiek, and Falcon can be for Doc, he can still hold his own.I completely agree, don't get me wrong. Falcon and Sheik are definitely his hardest fights. Sheik is just more aggravating for me. It seems like everything she does outranges and outspeeds you, plus she can edge guard you soo much more efficiently than Falcon.
I know Falcon is more of a pain in the *** to fight, and he can combo the balls out of you, but you make it seem like the whole time you're fighting him you're just gonna stand still and throw pills at him. Well of course you're gonna get comboed hard if you do that. You get Falcon off the stage, that's the end of a stock. Sheik is a different story.
Personally, I don't think Doc has any true counters, just annoying and hard matchups. The last big tournament I can think of Bob$ entering, he was up against Isai in Loser's finals. He was beating Isai's Falcon, so what did Isai do? Switch to Sheik and proceed to win the round. If the best Doc in the country does well against Falcon and than loses to Sheik, what do you say to that?
One of the best, if not the most well known. Caveman might have actually accomplished more on a Nationwide level however.Is Bob$ the best doc player in the country?
But if you look closer to the matchup, yeah chaingrabbing shiek is great for damage but shiek's close up game is imba compared to doc's. If you grab marth you're gunna be in his ******* and he can't really do anything about it. At 0% you can pretty easily combo off of a dthrow and if you mess up, no biggie. But if you mess up with shiek you are right where she wants you.I really think that Marth is Doc's worst matchup but I think that by no means is it one sided or anything. I actually really enjoy fighting marth's because of exactly what you said: you can combo him to hell once you get close enough. Sheik can make life very difficult for Doc but I think is an overall easier matchup because of Doc's chaingrab.
No, you dont stand there and do pills. You run, you bair, and you pray to god that capfal spaces his nair poorly. That's ALL you can do. If you try to go above with a d.air, and he reacts fast enough to your fullhop (which he can, you have to actually JUMP), he gets a u.air. You stay on the ground, and capfal is fast enough on the ground and in the air where approaching with d.air to get around you is a viable tactic.I know Falcon is more of a pain in the *** to fight, and he can combo the balls out of you, but you make it seem like the whole time you're fighting him you're just gonna stand still and throw pills at him. Well of course you're gonna get comboed hard if you do that. You get Falcon off the stage, that's the end of a stock. Sheik is a different story.
Is he, as in right now? I dont even know if he plays. Was he when he played? That's debatable. In the end he got smart like eggz did with mario. Smart being bob money stopped playing doc so much and went marth.Is Bob$ the best doc player in the country?
Wait what? I never said "Doc has no counters". Im not a concieted "character fan" player who swears up and down their character is good. DOC HAS TERRIBLE MATCHUPS, THOSE ARE CALLED COUNTERS. There's a reason why caveman went to sheik, and bob money went to marth. Doc has counters.I also agree with what Dogy said and that Doc has no real counters, only difficult matchups.
Oh, marth can be a ******** matchup, too. The thing is, to beat a marth, doc has to be patient and catch marth coming in. Most people who play the game arent patient (hench why you hear about everybody having a terrible time with puffs). Marth can flat out stop docs pill game if he knows how, and beyond that he outranged doc with his grab alone, let alone just about every attack in his arsenal. Marth is a hard matchup.As for Marth being Doc's hardest matchup, I disagree. One of Doc's harder matchups, yes. Marth's huge disjointed hitbox and grab range can pose a lot of problems, but I would rather fight a campy Marth than a campy Sheik any day of the week.
Doc out maneuvers Marth in the air, can juggle and combo him pretty fierce if he gets in close. How do you get in close? Mix up pills, spot dodges and feint lots of attacks; lots of Marths abuse Fsmash a bit too much and if you can read/trick them into it you have a big opening. Sheik and Falcon are both faster than you in the air and on the ground, and their up close/ground game is better than Doc's.
i mean when i enter a match i dont think about omg your my counter....no i just think about....doc>falco any day of the week... fox is a little more trouble but not enough to really be a counter
personally if there were a lot of good yoshi's i think that'd be a doc counter. too good
I feel you, but that's how you would feel no matter who your main is. The thing about Doc is if you play smart you can try to adapt to any situation.i mean when i enter a match i dont think about omg your my counter....no i just think about....
"ok im doc and im goona win no matter how im goona find a way to win period"
you better not be using chinesah for your base in that arguement.doc ***** capt falcon IMO
i've beaten chinesahh....G-reg....darkrain....juke...korn.....hax......i still dont find falcon to be a problem.you better not be using chinesah for your base in that arguement.
That man REFUSED to nair you.
Vids?i've beaten chinesahh....G-reg....darkrain....juke...korn.....hax......i still dont find falcon to be a problem.
sadly none were recorded.Vids?
/oritdidnthappen
Definitely agree, no jonzmake sure u record it this time
chinesahh im not spreading anything all i said wuz i beat your falcon....WTF are u complaining about??? you are ten times better then me anyways......i just find capt falcon easy to fight......WTF i dunno how old this thread is but ****
boss did beat me, but wtf boss mm me for 50 bucks in melee
i beat you in the first set, and we were splitting anyway
you cant just spread that ****