Who is tourney viable

[Falconv1.0]

NOTICE:DO NOT POST SCRUB COMMENTS. YOU WILL BE SHUNNED AND RIDICULED, NOT EVERYONE IS VIABLE IN TOURNEYS YOU IDIOTIC SCRUBS.


As we know, MK, Snake, and Dedede are epic. Lets move off that subject.

Now look at our Overused, and Standards.

S: Snake, Meta Knight, King Dedede
A: Marth, Mr. Game & Watch, Lucario, ROB, Wario, Falco, Olimar
B: Donkey Kong, Wolf, Fox, Ice Climbers, Kirby, Pit
C: Peach, Ness, Diddy Kong, Toon Link, Pikachu, Luigi, Captain Falcon
D: Zelda, Zero Suit Samus, Samus, Bowser, Ike, Jigglypuff, Pokémon Trainer
E: Lucas, Sonic, Ganondorf, SheikZelda, Mario, Link
U: Sheik, Yoshi

How accurately does this define who is viable in tourneys? Who has some true potential of moving up, or gaining some credibility. There's gotta be some characters that we just haven't developed well enough, I mean, somethings gotta change, lol.


Well, at least I hope so, otherwise my sheik will always be terrible and never used because we suck. T_T


Discuss.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

...

I believe you are mistaken. Those are North American rankings, man...

 

[Zankoku]

Actually, what you have there is my rankings list that takes its data from the States. Japan's rankings are as follows:

S. Snake, Falco, MK, ROB
A. Diddy, Fox, Marusu
B. Wolf, G&W, Toon, Pit
C. ICs, Olimar, ZeroSamus, Pikachu, Mario, Lucario
D. Kirby, Sheik, DDD, *Lucas, Luigi, Wario
E. *Ike, Koopa, Zelda, DK, Ness, Peach, *Link
F. *Samus, Sonic, CF, Purin, PokeTore, Yoshi
G. Ganon

 

[Falconv1.0]

Quick, Falcon, to the Failmobile.

*edits.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

^^;

Actually...those aren't official, either. kamekasu talked to Ikki I believe, who confirmed that Japanese pros didn't make that list and it was just a bunch of nobodies.

 

[Falconv1.0]

^^;

Actually...those aren't official, either. kamekasu talked to Ikki I believe, who confirmed that Japanese pros didn't make that list and it was just a bunch of nobodies.

Ehe, either way, it's what I got. And I'd like to see some kind of discussion, lol.

And sorry for any other **** ups, I shouldn't be capable of even typing coherently at the moment, >.>

 

[Vyse]

This will just turn into another tier debate. Isn't this kind of discussion made for the official tier list thread?

But to answer your question OP.
Diddy Kong is tournament viable IMO.

Assuming that your ability to control the nanerz is superior to your opponent's, Diddy doesn't have any resounding weaknesses, aside from his status as a light weight. His ability to string together banana combos ending in f-smashes is phenomenal.

Of course, I am also biased in my opinion.

 

[Eji1700]

Anyone you get good enough with.

However those who will be having the most trouble are Jiggly, Falcon, Yoshi, samus, and possibly dk.

Jig is very very easy to KO
Falcon lacks combos and his only real damage comes from hard to hit low priority moves.
Yoshi still could really use a recover move besides egg.
Samus has been hit hard with the nerf bat and dedede's chain throw doesn't help.
DK is pretty dead against a good IC, which aren't that common right now, or Dedede, which is.

 

[ph00tbag]

Anyone you get good enough with.

However those who will be having the most trouble are Jiggly, Falcon, Yoshi, samus, and possibly dk.

Jig is very very easy to KO
Falcon lacks combos and his only real damage comes from hard to hit low priority moves.
Yoshi still could really use a recover move besides egg.
Samus has been hit hard with the nerf bat and dedede's chain throw doesn't help.
DK is pretty dead against a good IC, which aren't that common right now, or Dedede, which is.

Except DK is really only having trouble against DDD. He's got a good game against MK and as I recall, a not bad one against Snake, which makes him a rare character whom a lot of people like to pick up as a potential second.

 

[Kros]

Ganon is so good he gets his own ranking

 

[Blue sHell]

DDD and Wario are so low on that Japan list in comparison to our list. And Diddy and Fox are waay up there. Mario, Falco, and Toon seem to be exactly where they deserve to be on their list too.

Wonder if they are as baffled from our list than we are of their list in certain parts, lol.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I wonder if the fact that Diddy and Fox do so well in Japan means they will do better in America as the metagame progresses.

I also wonder how Falco does better in Japan than Metaknight. MK doesn't really have the ability to camp, and spamming should be deflectable by Falco's reflector (I don't know if this is true or not), so it does seem like Americans might be underrating Falco while the Japanese probably use him as a common counterpick character.

 

[Gingerr]

DK also has trouble with Falco's, my ex mains him.
Diddy definitely, definitely is tournament viable. GameDragonX is blowing minds with his Diddy.
Zelda is, too. Even with a terrible upB, and no one good enough to show what she's got, from playing her, I just know.
Also, imo, Sonic is worse than Ganondorf.
inB4 RAGE.

 

[Falconv1.0]

DK also has trouble with Falco's, my ex mains him.
Diddy definitely, definitely is tournament viable. GameDragonX is blowing minds with his Diddy.
Zelda is, too. Even with a terrible upB, and no one good enough to show what she's got, from playing her, I just know.
Also, imo, Sonic is worse than Ganondorf.
inB4 RAGE.

Diddy needs more love, seriously.

Eh, Sonic is like C.Falcon, but without any chance of winning.

DDD is probably better here since due to us being so defensive, he has more openings to start chain grabs, and do other shiz, where in Japan they'd be all over him, regardless of the chain grab.

I'd say easily tourney viable characters who aren't called Snake, MK, or Dedede can include

Falco
Kirby,
Lucario,
Zelda,
Diddy,
Wario,
IC's
Toon Link
Pit
Fox,
Marth
ROB
Olimar
and mebbe Wolf, but he has some pretty heavy counters.

There could be more, my knowledge on the entire roster is still shaky.

 

[Kitamerby]

Everyone's tourney viable at this point. The list isn't set in stone, and half the reason so many characters are so horribly low are because they're underused. I mean, look at Luigi, Zelda, and LUCAS of all people. We can all see the potential, it's just that too few people use them right now, or are scared because of bad matchups. *coughLUCAScough*

Hell, I could go on and argue about how Ness, Mario, Peach and Link (maybe?) are entirely tourney-viable, but meh.

We have to give it time. There is no "tourney viable" list yet, and will not be until the game matures a bit.

 

[Gamer212]

Game & Watch

 

[Wubblez]

Everyone is viable imo.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Everyone is viable imo.

Ehe, no. Only scrubs and idiots can say that with a straight face.

I guarantee, Yoshi will never win a tourney unless said tourney is full of morons.

 

[Lemon Drop]

Ehe, no. Only scrubs and idiots can say that with a straight face.

I guarantee, Yoshi will never win a tourney unless said tourney is full of morons.

Or said Yoshi gets really lucky and their opponents trip into one of his KO moves <_<

Every match

 

[Edds]

yoshi, jiggs, falcon, bowser and ganondorf arent really good tourney chars. i might missed a few. i havnt used every char alot to noticed if they are good or not.

but its a challenege to use them i guess.

 

[bigman40]

Or said Yoshi could just be another azen <_<

Seriously, Yoshi has potential. Very little, but it's there.

Edit: Edds, you're right that it's a challenge to use them. At this very moment, I don't think that Yoshi can win under the circumstances right now, but later in the metagame, I think he's gonna be a tourney viable character. He does well against some of the high tiers than most that get wrecked by them. Plus, no one really hasn't gotten Yoshi to the true amount of what Yoshi can do. It's mainly up in the air for Yoshi.

Edit edit: Falcon, you could at least say that Yoshi's chances of winning a tourney are super slim. They're not impossible. <_< I hate it when people exaggerate so much like that.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Fox has some untapped potential. Compare him to Falco. Falco has a better laser, a chain grab to 30-50% and a spike. Fox is much faster, has better kill moves, a better recovery, Shine infinite against walls and Shine spike. They are comparable.

Sheik has potential. She's fast, fairly safe, nasty Ftilt lock on most of the cast, tether gives her another recovery option, excellent but difficult to perform DAC, an Upsmash that kills most characters at around 100, and great edge guarding.

 

[Vyse]

Diddy needs more love, seriously.

Geno and his Diddy just placed second at Ketubato - X.
Japan's biggest tourney.

 

[wul]

Game & Watch

definitely.

 

[Foxy_Marth]

This is really starting to bug me. People on these boards are using maybe 2 or 3 threads as tourney results. And then they use this as ultimate proof when making a tier list or even dumb topics like this.

Some characters are bad. But if your amazing with a certain character. They are tourney viable. Every character is tourney viable if you know what the hell your doing. There is no character in the history of SSB that has never won a tourney.

Benefits of using bad characters are definitely under usage, lack of knowledge of the character, and your opponent can be dumbfounded on how a certain character plays.


If results after a quarter of a year after a games release from only one or two threads display who is tourney viable has the absolute DUMBEST thing ive ever heard. Look at the tier lists in melee. Some characters decreased and some increased.

 

[bigman40]

This is really starting to bug me. People on these boards are using maybe 2 or 3 threads as tourney results. And then they use this as ultimate proof when making a tier list or even dumb topics like this.

Some characters are bad. But if your amazing with a certain character. They are tourney viable. Every character is tourney viable if you know what the hell your doing. There is no character in the history of SSB that has never won a tourney.

Benefits of using bad characters are definitely under usage, lack of knowledge of the character, and your opponent can be dumbfounded on how a certain character plays.


If results after a quarter of a year after a games release from only one or two threads display who is tourney viable has the absolute DUMBEST thing ive ever heard. Look at the tier lists in melee. Some characters decreased and some increased.

Thank you! I bet if I were to say something like that, then I'd get flamed

 

[Griffard]

I would honestly say that all but C. Falcon and Jiggs are completely viable. I have worlds of experience with EVERY single character, and those two are the two that have the worst time competing. I'm sure there are a few examples of those two shining, but it's impossible to argue the fact that they are quite weak

 

[Falconv1.0]

Scrubs dont know what the hell they are talking about.

This is really starting to bug me. People on these boards are using maybe 2 or 3 threads as tourney results. And then they use this as ultimate proof when making a tier list or even dumb topics like this.

Some characters are bad. But if your amazing with a certain character. They are tourney viable. Every character is tourney viable if you know what the hell your doing. There is no character in the history of SSB that has never won a tourney.

Benefits of using bad characters are definitely under usage, lack of knowledge of the character, and your opponent can be dumbfounded on how a certain character plays.


If results after a quarter of a year after a games release from only one or two threads display who is tourney viable has the absolute DUMBEST thing ive ever heard. Look at the tier lists in melee. Some characters decreased and some increased.

Gimpyfish is ****ing awesome with Bowser in Melee. Gimpyfish places in the top 10 at tourneys, and says Bowser sucks.

Either you're claiming Gimpyfish sucks, or that you seriously dont listen to anything people say and make **** up in your head.

Read your ****ing post dude. If you are better than people, then you will win, but only if you are waaay better with that ****ty character. If anyone had a Marth close in skill to the Yoshi player who was dominating, the Marth would definitely win.

Tier lists and viability are based off the assumption that both players are equal in skill. If you have to be better than your opponent by quite a degree to win, you're using a ****ty character.

And btw, I never claimed those results are set in stone *******, those happen to be the results. And I want to discuss who is and isn't viable, and how accurate the lists are. >.>

 

[AlexX]

[...]
and mebbe Wolf, but he has some pretty heavy counters.

You haven't seen some good Wolves (Wolfs?) play if you don't think he's tourney viable.

That said, I'm pretty sure just about anyone not named Jiggs, Yoshi, C.Falcon, and maybe Sonic and Ganondorf are tournament viable right now. I say "maybe" since I'm not sure Ganondorf belongs on that list since Ike is (mostly) considered viable and Ganon is both faster and stronger than he is, and I'm not fully sure Sonic belongs there either since I've seen some pretty good ones before (although the only legitimate tournament I saw one at had just one half-decent MK and no Snakes in it... though there were 2 G&W's and an Olimar).

 

[Grunt]

Ganon is so good he gets his own ranking

Quoted for the most epic ****in truth in the world.

also, Falco is very good, along with Game and Watch.

 

[Foxy_Marth]

Gimpyfish is ****ing awesome with Bowser in Melee. Gimpyfish places in the top 10 at tourneys, and says Bowser sucks.

Either you're claiming Gimpyfish sucks, or that you seriously dont listen to anything people say and make **** up in your head.

Read your ****ing post dude. If you are better than people, then you will win, but only if you are waaay better with that ****ty character. If anyone had a Marth close in skill to the Yoshi player who was dominating, the Marth would definitely win.

Tier lists and viability are based off the assumption that both players are equal in skill. If you have to be better than your opponent by quite a degree to win, you're using a ****ty character.

And btw, I never claimed those results are set in stone *******, those happen to be the results. And I want to discuss who is and isn't viable, and how accurate the lists are. >.>

-.-

Why did you post them there if there not set in stone......

And yes I did read your post, did you read mine?? And im saying theres WAY MORE RESULTS. And those are only people who post them. Maybe you should have some .. Wait for it FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE?.

The bottom line of my post was that after a quarter of a year after the games release theres no such thing as a character that isnt viable. As of now everyone is viable. Out there, every character has won a tourney. And please please dont say look at this thread > 0 wins.

Pick lets say Yoshi. OOOOoooooOOOOooO terrible character. He has miles of potential and a bunch of ATs. How many people know their Yoshi matchup in depth and amazing. Very few. Most people assume he sucks and their char will own him. Guess what your not going to be expecting a good Yoshi going to a tourney.

Whats with all this bs thinking I dont know what tiers are.... And the gimpyfish example kinda proved my point. And why would you bring an example ?? There are tons of good people who played low tier chars.

 

[Foxy_Marth]

Scrubs dont know what the hell they are talking about. ?

This deserves another post....

If you think thats a scrub walll of text you have to be an idiot. In your post replying you said some of the most obvious **** ive ever seen. Like Ive never read 5 topics.

Scrub? Maybe this topic.

 

[Fogo]

i really don't think anybody is on america's level of play right now. agreed? disagree?


lemme know ^_^

 

[Vyse]

The bottom line of my post was that after a quarter of a year after the games release theres no such thing as a character that isnt viable. As of now everyone is viable. Out there, every character has won a tourney.

-_-

Just because a low tier has won a tournament somewhere, doesn't make them equally as viable as any other character. Every single character is has a level of tourney viability, but by tournament viable, I think what the OP really means to say "If I wanted to maximise my chances of winning a tournament, who should I use?".

Ankoku's character ranking list is a good example of this. Sure, each character on the list shows their potential to do well, but there is a gaping difference between the top and bottom of the ranking that proves their is a variance in each character's viability to win a tournament. What is proved by Ankoku's list is that some characters are more popular as tournament winning characters Just because people main a low tier, doesn't mean they won't switch to a tournament winning character when they need to.

But some players will continue to ignore tournament viability, and play who they want, which is great. Some of this forum's most respected players play low tier characters at tournaments and do well because of their skill with their characters. However, this is not a level of playing ability that just everyone can pick up.

If people want to win tournaments, they're going to want to maximise their chances of winning. And this is done by choosing the characters considered most viable to win a tournament.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Are poeple not allowed to use certain characters in tournaments now?

 

[Exorcist]

Yes, all the bad characters are banned now because they unbalance the game. People have even been thinking of making tournys metaknight only for perfect fairness.

 

[Amide]

Snake, MK, G&W, DDD, DK, Wario, ROB, Marth, Lucario, Falco

Of course, if you want to, you could do good with other characters.*cough cough Gimpyfish*

Also keep in mind that the game is new, remember that Shiek was supposed to be the best in Melee?

 

[Grand Mango]

DDD and Wario are so low on that Japan list in comparison to our list. And Diddy and Fox are waay up there. Mario, Falco, and Toon seem to be exactly where they deserve to be on their list too.

Wonder if they are as baffled from our list than we are of their list in certain parts, lol.

Don't really think so. they don't resort to chain grabbing like we do.

 

[ph00tbag]

-.-

Why did you post them there if there not set in stone......

And yes I did read your post, did you read mine?? And im saying theres WAY MORE RESULTS. And those are only people who post them. Maybe you should have some .. Wait for it FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE?.

The bottom line of my post was that after a quarter of a year after the games release theres no such thing as a character that isnt viable. As of now everyone is viable. Out there, every character has won a tourney. And please please dont say look at this thread > 0 wins.

Pick lets say Yoshi. OOOOoooooOOOOooO terrible character. He has miles of potential and a bunch of ATs. How many people know their Yoshi matchup in depth and amazing. Very few. Most people assume he sucks and their char will own him. Guess what your not going to be expecting a good Yoshi going to a tourney.

Whats with all this bs thinking I dont know what tiers are.... And the gimpyfish example kinda proved my point. And why would you bring an example ?? There are tons of good people who played low tier chars.

Gimpyfish winning with Bowser shows that a lot of skill and knowledge of the game can get into the top ten places in a tourney. What you are not reading out of it, which you probably should, is that plenty of people who were much worse than Gimpy would be able to win such tournaments as Fox.

Brawl is the same way. Pac! recently got to 7th place in a tourney here in NC with Captain Falcon. Pac! is a very good smasher. However, someone who is not as good as he is could probably have won that tournament if they got to know Snake well enough.

This is what it means for a character to be tourney viable. A tourney viable character means that the character is more likely to bring a wider range of skill levels to tournament success. And no matter what you think about the influence of the skill of the player, the viability of the character plays just as important a role in ability to win.

 

[rageagainst]

^^;

Actually...those aren't official, either. kamekasu talked to Ikki I believe, who confirmed that Japanese pros didn't make that list and it was just a bunch of nobodies.

how could yall not have seen how borked the japanise rankings are

and even if they were accurate tourny rankings, who cares the japanise are much less into competitive smash than americans.

EDIT:
and as for tourny viableness, just play anyone you KNOW isn't horrble, because there isn't a tier list. We don't know the full potential of characters but we do know some characters don't have that much. Don't play Link, don't play Captain Falcon, don't play Bowser, etc.. you should know whether or not your character has a chance of beating a tourny or not. Make sure that if people of lower skill are beating you, its not just because those certain matchups are bad matchups for your characters

The matchup chart wll give you an idea of who you should play and who you shouldn't

If you want to have an ADVANTAGE, then you should know who to pick (MK, snake, Falco, etc.)
(i have mixed opinions on ganon bieng tourny viable)