Why I want Impa in SSB4 instead of Sheik

[Diddy Kong]

Proof lacks besides a name of an unfinished project. It's no good argument to bring up in the first place.

DAK075: well, Zelda / Impa doesn't need a transformation, just a tag team like switch. It could work like you described but could you post a video anyway?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Diddy, Prai and Mai are short for the full names of Plusle and Minun's Japanese names. That's the reason why it could be them.

In addition, you cannot say Toon Sheik was a placeholder for Tetra and expect anyone to take it seriously. That doesn't even make sense. It downright says "Toon Sheik". If he wanted Tetra in, the file would say exactly that. BTW, he made Giga Bowser, did he not? And he became playable later on. Nonexistent is not an issue and never will be for Sakurai.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Giga Bowser was a boss however, and Toon Sheik a playable. Giga Bowser is Bowser's Final Smash, but not fully playable just a throw back to Melee. It might be gone next game, we dunno. And I dunno why he should make a Zelda clone? More so a Sheik clone? All other characters where at least understandable, but this was weird. And they would be the first real clones then. Besides Dr.Mario if he got in. I don't think that's likely as it was at least tried to make the most old clones more unique. And besides that, Lucas and Wolf for example play nothing like Ness and Fox. That's why I think it's Tetra, with a moveset still similar to Sheik, but slightly different Bs. It just wouldn't make sence otherwise.

And Pirate Ship is still a stage.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Pirate Ship is a Wind Waker stage. Plain and simple. It is not specific to Tetra, considering she's not even shown in the data. Very flawed logic based off of nothing even close to concrete. Nor related. In fact, I'd like to know if there were other scrapped stages. We've had 6(or 7) scrapped characters. The only one we don't have an indefinite name for Plusle & Minun. The rest are clear as day who it meant.

You know, you can play as Master Hand in Melee with a non-cheat device, just using a controller trick. Guess he doesn't count either, despite having a playable Moveset in all the games.(yes, you know, you can use variations of the A, B, etc. buttons with him) All of them are still playable characters and have their own playable data.

It doesn't matter whether they're a boss or not, they have playable data and that's all that matters.

Ganondorf was soooo made unique. Honestly, he was barely changed at all from his Melee counterpart, unless you consider severely nerfing his poor ***.

There is absolutely no concrete data to prove it's Tetra. It says Toon Sheik, not Tetra. He meant Toon Sheik, otherwise it would SAY Tetra. All of those are poorly designed theories.

And he made a Link clone, a Captain Falcon clone, a Pichu clone, a Marth clone, a Mario clone, a Fox clone... but let's look at the Link clone, which is EXACTLY the same situation as Toon Zelda/Toon Sheik. If he wanted them to be clones, it would make more sense to clone Sheik and not make a new character. Since the attacks need less work done, so it's faster. I mean, it's not like he wasn't pressed for time, so...

Tetra =/= Sheik. They have zip in common besides owning a KNIFE. Toon Sheik = Sheik. That, you know, makes sense, because if he's going to clone Zelda, why not clone her exact counterpart?

And he still did a crappy job on uncloning Ganondorf. I mean, he got ONE new special.(not counting Final Smashes, despite both his and Falcon's having the same outcome, which is summoning an OTK hitter, the only real differences were range and a cutscene VS a non-cutscene). He's maybe about half as what he was to Falcon, but there's still no excuse to leave the horrible Warlock Punch anyway.

 

[Ice Prince]

Ganondorf does need to be revised. Definitely a step back in Brawl for him.

And pleaseeeeee give Zelda a bit more speed while you're at it. Not much (she's got some powerful smashes), but at least give her something. That or improve her aerial game.

I'd love for Sheik to have that Melee status back as well, but Sheik is fine overall. /rant

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@Ice Prince: You visit the Super Smash Bros. Wii U thread? You should. I like your ideas, and you'd fit in well.

To be honest, Sheik's fine in Brawl. Link, well, his Spin Attack got nerfed, the Gale Boomerang's not that good, but atleast he's got bombs.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Clone B moveset for Tetra aka the actual Toon Sheik

B- throwing knife
Side B: Grappling Hook (which Link used in Wind Waker)
Up B: something similar lol. Smoke bomb?

I'm not gonna discuss it further. Toon Sheik didn't make it in the game, nor does she have any significant data like Mewtwo did. If there was only a trophy of Toon Sheik, I'd believe it.

 

[GwJ]

I support Impa over Sheik, but I don't think they'll replace Sheik since OoT3D came out making her relevant again.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Clone B moveset for Tetra aka the actual Toon Sheik

B- throwing knife
Side B: Grappling Hook (which Link used in Wind Waker)
Up B: something similar lol. Smoke bomb?

I'm not gonna discuss it further. Toon Sheik didn't make it in the game, nor does she have any significant data like Mewtwo did. If there was only a trophy of Toon Sheik, I'd believe it.

There was never a trophy of Impa, so we can't believe she has any chance. I can do that too.

Tetra does not exist in the data, and no matter how many times you continue to say it. It specifically says "Toon Sheik", and your vendetta against the character will not change actual facts. If he meant Tetra, it would say Tetra. Since she was absolutely never planned, we would've gotten a clone team anyway. Of course most would rather have Tetra over Toon Sheik, but that was never going to happen in the first place. It's pretty clear that Sakurai wants the Toon(which is all Child Link-related) counterparts to be almost the same as the originals. Silly, but eh. :shrug:

 

[Diddy Kong]

There where no trophies about the 6 Sages of OOT in Melee anyway. Neither where there many, if any true OOT based trophies outside of playables anyway.

Da faq I was saying again last page..?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Then he cares about Impa's role as much as the Six Sages. None of them matter.

All he wanted was the true main characters. Sheik is Zelda, and counts.

First, I'd like to remind you I think Toon Sheik is stupid over Tetra. That wasn't disagreed with. What I don't agree with is trying to say the data is something it's not.

Either way, he considers Sheik more important as a full character(not so much their role), and at this point, always will. Impa could finally be playable, but she won't replace Sheik for that.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm still saying that I expect version exclusives. Zelda / Sheik will stay, but only on 3DS.

 

[Oasis_S]

Tries to transfer Sheik over to Wii U.

Can't because she doesn't exist on that version.

??????

 

[Diddy Kong]

Nah, you'd get Impa with a full Sheik clone moveset instead of an almost original Impa.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

lol at Sheik being a version exclusive. I can't see it for anyone other than one-offs.(Mewtwo, Pichu, Dr. Mario, Roy, every new character in Brawl) Unless you want Zelda in only the 3DS version, then sure.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Look I'm not gonna argue with you about this all the time. Just leaving this here for now. Kinda bored with this lately.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You're expecting the other half of Zelda's slot to be removed. Or for that matter, to be an exclusive. We might not even GET character exclusives.(it could be mini-games, stages, etc.) This is pure theorycraft, but absolutely nothing shows that Sheik even has a slight chance of getting removed.

I am 100% for Impa being playable TOO. Just drop the removal of Sheik, and you'll get supporters.

 

[Ice Prince]

If I'm being realistic (and I do like Impa keep in mind), I see the next Zelda series slot going to Ghirahim.

Sheik won't be going anywhere--I'm 99% sure of that, especially given the treatment in Brawl. Sheik got a full on design TP style specifically for Brawl. That, to me at least, shows that Sheik is in for the long haul. Sheik received a game design for a game that Sheik wasn't even present in. Midna or Zant could have easily been included for the TP phase, yet Sheik remained and neither of the former were even inclused as an assist.

Am I opposed to SS Impa? Absolutely not. Do I think she'll be included? Probably not. If anyone gets a slot, it will more than likely be Ghirahim.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It's quite the opposite Ice Prince. That design of Sheik was made by the developers of Twilight Princess for Twilight Princess. Sheik just got scrapped from the game, but they had her design. Therefore Sakurai could use it.

And even though she was considered for Twilight Princess, Sheik didn't return in the next major console release. That was Impa.

 

[Oasis_S]

Sakurai of course worked a great deal on Twilight Princess and obviously knew Sheik had a design available and hinged his decision entirely upon that.

 

[Diddy Kong]

My guess is that he just asked?

 

[Oasis_S]

To ASK would mean HE WANTED Sheik in Brawl though, knowing she wasn't in TP, and frankly not caring.

I mean, I'm not going to pretend like I know everything about development, but I think artists first make designs for each character, then when one is approved they go on to make it in more detail and from different perspectives, and then a modeler comes along and makes what you see in-game. THAT IS TO SAY, EVERY CHARACTER IN SMASH GOES THROUGH THIS DESIGN PROCESS. So it doesn't matter that Sheik happened to have some concept art lying around for them to work with. Even if she did not, they would have made a new one, probably with the input of actual Zelda artists.

You may not even notice it sometimes. Mario? Well, he looks like Mario. But that particular model doesn't appear in any other game ever. It had to be designed just for Brawl.

 

[Diddy Kong]

There where no real alternatives for Sheik around that time anyways. But still, Sakurai did had to mention that Sheik did in fact, not appear in TP.

Point is, time is different now. A scrapped Sheik from a game is far less of a deal than no appearances in any recent game at all.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The fact that she didn't appear strengthens our point. He still wanted her in regardless of her lack of new appearance. That's why I don't believe he cares about relevance, since he kind of... went out of his way to ignore that factor, atleast when it came to Sheik.

He could've never mentioned she was scrapped at all. Honestly, why bother even mentioning something important about her... unless he thought she was an important character or something. Don't get me wrong; If he put Impaz(another Sheikah) in Sheik's place in Brawl, people wouldn't be so against having Impa teamed up with Zelda. But Sakuai already proved he wants Sheik to stay(he still went out of his way to get her, and that simply includes asking for her), so he isn't going to scrap a character he actually likes, especially for one he shows little caring about. It doesn't make sense from his point of view.

 

[Diddy Kong]

There was no suitable Sheik replacement before.
There now is.

Zelda didn't do **** in TP, she did a lot in SS though. I'm tired of repeating everything every time. I'm just calling it to happen now.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

There was no suitable Sheik replacement before.
There now is.

Impaz. Midna. There were many characters who could've replaced Sheik. Being a one-off means nothing either. That's just our personal preferences, but even Tingle could've replaced her too. He was very suitable and played a pretty big role in Wind Waker, considering you couldn't finish it without him.

Zelda didn't do **** in TP, she did a lot in SS though. I'm tired of repeating everything every time. I'm just calling it to happen now.

So what? The series is NAMED after Zelda herself. She doesn't need to do a thing, and nobody else has to in the first place. Zelda's popular because she's the true main character. Ganondorf's popular for being the main villain. Link's popular for being the main hero. Sheik is popular because it was the fight time we could see Zelda possibility fighting. Or, well, any kind of action. Zelda didn't show any form of fighting till after Sheik did. This is probably why Sheik was revealed first in Melee, since she was shown before Adult Zelda as well in OOT. Of course, we don't know if Sheik was created first, or if Sakurai just showed characters related to their first appearances for some series. Who knows right?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Impaz is a frail old lady, Midna would've been cool, but she has two forms, her most prominent one was coupled with Wolf Link. Her true form also didn't fight really, so having Sheik the second time seemed to have come from all others not being good or worthy enough. And Zelda / Sheik was one of the more original characters from Melee. So likely he wanted to keep them because of that.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Don't say likely here. And age doesn't matter.

Impaz still would've fought like Sheik, Midna was popular(not the most). Both were doable and viable.

Impa's just as viable as she was back then. Also, age is a pretty bad one since Ganondorf is clearly an old man in Brawl. Trust me, this isn't like Soul Calibur where being an old woman means you can't fight. Sakurai has never presented an age limit of any kind.

Impaz was an expy of Impa as is. They both were noteworthy characters in the game. That, and clearly, if role was of importance, Midna would have been considered, but so far, we have nada pointing to her. Hell, she had a Trophy before Impa. I mean, she's not anywhere on Impa's level of importance, right?

Zelda/Sheik is still original in Brawl and would be in SSB4. I don't see why Impa with a very unique moveset using her knife, her barrier, and other ways to fight, isn't possible. And let's keep in mind that Sakurai apparently doesn't think Impa is worthy enough to even get a trophy. A slightly bigger role has little chance of changing that heavily enough for anything beyond a Trophy, really.

 

[Diddy Kong]

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=s8Nx4FwjMYE

This guy basically says it all for me on his Impa part.

Though yeah, she could also be in there uniquely of coarse. But I don't expect her to be like Sheik exactly anyways.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

She doesn't need to be like Sheik at all. That is, if they use something other than her slim design. Fat Impa or Old Impa both are easily more unique than another Ninja... I mean, seriously, Impa trained Sheik, so I can't see how she would be much different in the first place. If they keep her sheikah design.

Your video isn't working.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, the idea about this all is keeping with a character similar to Sheik's playstyle, with mostly different B moves.

Do I really have to answer the rest about Old and Fat Impa...?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Fat Impa is the most unique fighting-wise.

Old Impa has the most appearances, and thus, would be the best choice since we don't have an old character with a cane yet.

Meh on Ninja Impa. We're covered Ninja-wise with Sheik and ZS Samus. And the appearance of Gray Wolf. Being a ninja isn't that unique either. Atleast the other two have less chance of being clones, are unique as is, and, you know, Old Impa came first too. Not like Elderly People have trouble fighting these in games anyway. They're some of the most popular(if done right).

 

[Diddy Kong]

I have extreme doubts that you know what you're talking about ever since you posted about Impaz as a Sheik replacement option. Fat Impa has never fought, and why the hell would they choose that design in the first place?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Why would they choose the style that would be a clone of Sheik and not one that's unique? Especially when unique is one of those criteria. It's pretty darn easy making a physical fighter that can lift cows.

And Impaz is literally the Impa version of TP. If they were going to replace Sheik with another Sheikah, it would've been her, not Impa. Then we might've seen Impa replace Impaz in SSB4. But none of that happened, which only shows that Sakurai just doesn't care how many new Sheikah there are. I still don't see how Impa will get out of being a clone, outside of maybe a more or two. I await an unique moveset that would make sense from Sakurai's view.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Dude, stop posting. Do you know who Impaz even is?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Dude, stop posting. Do you know who Impaz even is?

Yeah, I do. She's the closest we have to a TP Sheikah as is. She's probably related to Impa, and IF Sheik were to be removed, she's the only character that could fit the bill for a replacement. Much like Impa is to you.

I have played the game you know, and it's rather implied that she's a Sheikah anyway.

Why would they remove an unique character for someone that doesn't even play like her? Atleast Impaz had a much better chance of being somewhat like a clone replacement(like Toon Link was for Young Link). But eh.

Now, let's strictly talk about Impa's playstyles with all three versions as choices. Not just one version.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No let's not.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So let's not discuss Impa as a whole? Because that's the character, not just one personal iteration. It's not like Midna, who's in one game. She's got more than one form for a reason.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Her most suitable and best role is the one from Skyward Sword.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Who's talking about role? I'm talking about moveset potential. Role =/= Getting into Smash. We've told you that before. We want moves that'll make her interesting. Role means nothing, since she's far from a main character anyway.