Wofl Q&A/Social

[Deleted member]

Chuee, stop trolling.

Norfair is one of Wolf's best CPs. I'll go into detail when I get back home.

 

[Ishiey]

I was waiting for that Norfair post :3

1) Wolf benefits from it, definitely. The platforms are small enough for Wolf to easily cover, but big enough to make it a bit tough for some other charcters. Also, the map basically being a bunch of platforms is great because it means Wolf can hop around and bair all the time Easy access to a lot of ledges is good imo, gives Wolf (and everyone, I guess) more options to run away and whatnot, as well as an additional landing option. Hazards aren't really that relevant imo. With so many small platforms, it's easier for Wolf to pressure opponents off of the platform and into their ledgeslip animation, which is delicious because it can give Wolf a guaranteed dsmash

2) So good. Any CG MU gets a lot better, except maybe Falco whose lasers can go eat a ****. Wolf can run away from D3 all day, battle Wario in the air where the CG isn't an issue (although Wario's aerial mobility makes this stage good for him as well, I would be fine fighting him here), Pikachu is kinda in-between the two. Any character that we beat solidly in the air I'd take here too. Maybe even MK, since the only way he can travel horizontally in the air at a reasonable speed is Tornado, which loses to Blaster :3 That + how the platforms make it easier for Wolf to punish landings (very helpful against MK imo) mean that Norfair definitely isn't too high on my list of stages to ban against MK.

3) Jump around and be annoying lol. Blaster from a distance to pester opponents without projectiles or use downB for anti-projectile stuff. Once you have the lead just run away with aerials and shine if necessary. Wolf's fair/bair/uair all have great range and come out pretty quickly, plus his great air speed makes it a real ***** to get him. SideB + possible cancels take you everywhere you need to go, platform drop uair is a good defensive retreat, ledges are nice and make it harder for the opponent to gimp us, etc etc. Controlling platforms and pressuring others off of platforms are good strategies for Wolf, and he has an easier time forcing opponents into the air or the ledge (generally good for Wolf, except now that there are more ledges it's harder to ledgetrap most characters). I personally prefer the middle level of platforms, where Wolf can harass the other side with blasters, has more escape options, and can generally take greater advantage of ledgeslips.

4) Mostly good. I'd ban this stage against some tether characters like Link and Lucas probably, but those aren't MUs that Wolf really needs to worry about in the first place. CG MUs are, and this stage helps a lot with those. The legalization of Norfair would be highly appreciated by most Wolf mains, I'm pretty sure.

 

[WindMajor]

Wolf dies on Norfair

I ****ing died when I read this.

I appreciate this post.

Norfair is one of Wolf's best CPs.

Best CPs, huh? Sounds interesting. Looking forward to that post then.

I was waiting for that Norfair post :3

1) Wolf benefits from it, definitely. The platforms are small enough for Wolf to easily cover, but big enough to make it a bit tough for some other charcters. Also, the map basically being a bunch of platforms is great because it means Wolf can hop around and bair all the time Easy access to a lot of ledges is good imo, gives Wolf (and everyone, I guess) more options to run away and whatnot, as well as an additional landing option. Hazards aren't really that relevant imo. With so many small platforms, it's easier for Wolf to pressure opponents off of the platform and into their ledgeslip animation, which is delicious because it can give Wolf a guaranteed dsmash

2) So good. Any CG MU gets a lot better, except maybe Falco whose lasers can go eat a ****. Wolf can run away from D3 all day, battle Wario in the air where the CG isn't an issue (although Wario's aerial mobility makes this stage good for him as well, I would be fine fighting him here), Pikachu is kinda in-between the two. Any character that we beat solidly in the air I'd take here too. Maybe even MK, since the only way he can travel horizontally in the air at a reasonable speed is Tornado, which loses to Blaster :3 That + how the platforms make it easier for Wolf to punish landings (very helpful against MK imo) mean that Norfair definitely isn't too high on my list of stages to ban against MK.

3) Jump around and be annoying lol. Blaster from a distance to pester opponents without projectiles or use downB for anti-projectile stuff. Once you have the lead just run away with aerials and shine if necessary. Wolf's fair/bair/uair all have great range and come out pretty quickly, plus his great air speed makes it a real ***** to get him. SideB + possible cancels take you everywhere you need to go, platform drop uair is a good defensive retreat, ledges are nice and make it harder for the opponent to gimp us, etc etc. Controlling platforms and pressuring others off of platforms are good strategies for Wolf, and he has an easier time forcing opponents into the air or the ledge (generally good for Wolf, except now that there are more ledges it's harder to ledgetrap most characters). I personally prefer the middle level of platforms, where Wolf can harass the other side with blasters, has more escape options, and can generally take greater advantage of ledgeslips.

4) Mostly good. I'd ban this stage against some tether characters like Link and Lucas probably, but those aren't MUs that Wolf really needs to worry about in the first place. CG MUs are, and this stage helps a lot with those. The legalization of Norfair would be highly appreciated by most Wolf mains, I'm pretty sure.

Going through the character boards takes a long time, so I just handed them out in groups. Blame Nintendo for making this post take so long to get here. They just had to give him a name that starts with W.

Anyways, sounds a lot like what Auspher said. Norfair must be a really good CP for Wolf. From what I'm getting, whatever Wolf was once good at, Norfair either maintains the effectivity of it, or gives it a little buff. Same thing with things that Wolf suffered from, such as chain grabs and ledge recovery. I guess it would be alright for me to label Wolf under [GOOD] then, based off of what you said, would you agree?

As for tactics.... well sounds like Wolf can do a lot. You said he can run away and be annoying, he can control platforms, punish landings, and do all sorts of stuff. Which would you say he could do best? Or would you say that he does them somewhat equally well?

 

[Ishiey]

I would most certainly agree ;D although, when you're talking about a stage that isn't very commonly played on with both parties being familiar with how their characters operate on said stage, a lot of people are probably going to label their character under "good", so... idk. I still agree lol

The thing Wolf can do best on Norfair is bair dance, imo. Retreating bairs all day. They masacre your shield, combo depending on %, and are completely safe bar stupid reads like DK's SA punch or trades. But I guess bair dancing mostly falls under controlling platforms via pressure and annoying avoidance lol. If I had to pick one, I guess I'd say running away, since it seems to be a bit less exclusive than platform control.

 

[Deleted member]

Well dang, Ishiey already covered a lot. I guess some things that haven't been already mentioned are that Wolf can Flash up onto platforms from the middle of the lower, previous ones, and if done right, he will snap to the far ledge of the higher platform. Also, the slimmer horizontal blast zones can make killing a breeze for Wolf on this stage. Rising bairs through platforms on the edges of the stage can kill them horizontally, but given the chances that fair is bound to be more fresh, it will kill off the top of that stage in that spot as well.

Definitely in agreement that Wolf's greatest strength here is running away. Given his great airspeed, and the distance he can fly with flash-cancelling, he can really be hard to catch. Really helpful against D3.

 

[WindMajor]

When I mean good, I mean by Wolf's standards, if this stage gives more pros than cons.

For example, Ganon and Link are good on Norfair compared to the majority of the other stages they play on, because the stage helps them more than it hurts them. Because of this, I would label them under [GOOD]. However, those characters don't stack up that well when compared against the rest of the cast. This would be irrelevant though, since that's a separate issue that I'll deal with later on.

As for strategies, I can see how Wolf can be a bit of a camper because of his Bair. He's got pretty good mobility to just run around too, so it wouldn't be hard to imagine. I still kinda see him as an all round kinda character, but I agree with what you say about picking "running away" if you had to choose between the two.

Edit: Looks like I'm in accordance with Auspher too.

bair dance

THE **** AM I WATCHING

 

[Deleted member]

I'd say he stage gives more pros mainly because Wolf won't have to worry so much about being CG'd by his bad matchups here. Even if it's Pikachu's, there's a good chance it will be interrupted by the lava, but the Pikachu will have a tough time catching Wolf in the first place.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Norfair synopsis: Good vs every character that isn't .

 

[Deleted member]

So Twinkie, if you're doing this alphabetically, then you're almost done, right? I'm really excited.

 

[Chuee]

Norfair synopsis: Good vs every character that isn't .

Don't forget [url="http://google.com]link[/url]

 

[Ishiey]

THE **** AM I WATCHING

Welcome to the Wolf boards, Twinkie

And yeah lol, under those definitions I'd definitely put Wolf under "good".

 

[Rizen]

Don't forget link

That's true. Link loves Norfair; it's by far his best stage. Not that Wolf doesn't have a good MU vs Link. It's just a bad CP vs him.

 

[MegaRobMan]

Norfair synopsis: Good vs every character that isn't .

I dunno, heard Link beats us there too.

Link ***** wolf on Norfair

See?

If norfair became legal and someone timed me out in our 2nd match, I would time that ducker out, and that stage is designed for wolf to time people out on due to angle his flash goes. but time outs are mad gay.

In other news, I actually played COOK from MO for quite a while Saturday/today, I feel that I can win every match if I plan on going about 7 minutes or getting ultra lucky on spikes (->B spikes especially), maybe some 4 minute matches.

 

[WindMajor]

So Twinkie, if you're doing this alphabetically, then you're almost done, right? I'm really excited.

Well, I'm almost done with the survey. This was the last batch of surveys I handed out. Now I just have to talk to everyone and make summaries for all the characters + formatting and what not. x___x Once I do that, there's still one more section that I have to do, which will take me a lot of time. I'm aiming for a late August release. :3


@Ish: I think you might have wanted to welcome ACTION PANDA with that, he would've appreciated it a LOT more, just sayin'.

 

[Zync]

Norfair makes people rage if you camp, wolf can run a lot there, people decided to ban it alongside with JJ recently here thanks to my camp D:

 

[KRDsonic]

I've been wondering, but is there some Link fad lately or something? I've been fighting TONS of Link mains on AiB for no apparent reason. It's at the point where I feel like I can never lose that matchup Offline now.

 

[MegaRobMan]

Link is the best character in the game, once they ban MK.

 

[Rizen]

Wifi Link is better than offline Link. I didn't know there were that many active Link mains.
GGs, btw.

 

[KRDsonic]

I used to have a friend in high school who was a Link main so I learned how to fight Link from him a long time ago (He beat me more times than I beat him though). And yeah, Link seems to be a popular character lately for some reason.

I'm still mad though, You're the only Link to have a winning record against me Arizen Your Link is legit.

 

[earla]

does wolf not have frame advantage when d-throwing at 0%?

i kept getting punished by mk if i d-throw at low %

 

[tekkie]

does wolf not have frame advantage when d-throwing at 0%?

i kept getting punished by mk if i d-throw at low %

hell no, he gets ***** if he dthrows at less than like 20-30 iirc

 

[earla]

is pika cg garanteed on wolf? i seem to be able to shine out. is it because tehy're not buffering correctly?>

is there anything u can do about that d3 edge cg apart from not get grabbed?

 

[tekkie]

is pika cg garanteed on wolf? i seem to be able to shine out. is it because tehy're not buffering correctly?>

is there anything u can do about that d3 edge cg apart from not get grabbed?

yes, yes, and no in that order

 

[SaveMeJebus]

How easy is it for DDD to set up the ledge infinite against wolf?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Very easy. Wolf just needs to be over 100% by the time he reaches the ledge.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Very easy. Wolf just needs to be over 100% by the time he reaches the ledge.

So does it really change the MU?

 

[Deleted member]

Hey AC, when is your next tourney?

@Jebus, it's more than that which makes the MU terrible for Wolf.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

No, it's really only the CG / Infinite that makes it so bad.

 

[Deleted member]

I thought he was referring to just the infinite alone. I know the regular CG makes it bad.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Thanks for the information

 

[MegaRobMan]

D3 isn't bad so long as you don't get grabbed or knocked off the ledge.

But once you are on the ledge/off stage, you are completely screwed and can't get back on safely without reinventing the wheel. Seriously, my strategy usually is to scar through the stage so it knocks D3's shield back far enough so he falls to the ledge.

 

[Seagull Joe]

How easy is it for DDD to set up the ledge infinite against wolf?

His cg varies. He can either Dthrow you to the point you fall off the edge or right at it.

Very easy. Wolf just needs to be over 100% by the time he reaches the ledge.

Also true, which is why should be using mostly jump recoveries (Which will probably be baited by ).

I've found the easiest way to get back on Bf and Sv is to completely mix-up 's recovery options since he has so many of them. On Bf the best way to recover in general is jump to the top platform and land with a Bair/Nair to cancel LP. Not many characters can punish super hard for doing this. If they keep trying to get you then land with shield because you won't suffer the LP upon a jump recovery to the top platform because it's so exact. You still will need to obviously cancel the LP laterzzzz.

is pika cg garanteed on wolf? i seem to be able to shine out. is it because tehy're not buffering correctly?>

is there anything u can do about that d3 edge cg apart from not get grabbed?

It is, but around the 30's the needs to Fthrow you or pummel or will break out. It's a weird Cg. If pummels then you can break free if you're really good at mashing. Most will just continue with an Fthrow. That's why it's impertinent to utilize a safer approach and make sure if he does grab you that it's far enough from the edge that the Fthrow won't lead to a grab follow-up.

does wolf not have frame advantage when d-throwing at 0%?

i kept getting punished by mk if i d-throw at low %

He does not have frame advantage when he Dthrow's at 0. It's better to Fthrow. After that first Fthrow then he should be able to Dthrow without problems. I think as long as the opponent is over 8% then he'll be fine.

So does it really change the MU?

Not really. The matchup is quite problematic in general. exhausts his ability to kill because Fair will never kill till the 200's and Bair will be incredibely stale. Dsmash is never a safe option unless the lags a move like an idiot. can stay an Ftilt away and never be punished by . Using our laser against him is difficult because we have a 42 frame lag in between the ability to move. FH lasering can help, but being above is stupid as well.

No, it's really only the CG / Infinite that makes it so bad.

Nope. It's the lack of ability to kill and the need to play perfect all the time (Complete spacing control). Not to mention he has the ability to just Cg to the edge>Release>Bair twice for a kill...Which sucks.

D3 isn't bad so long as you don't get grabbed or knocked off the ledge.

But once you are on the ledge/off stage, you are completely screwed and can't get back on safely without reinventing the wheel. Seriously, my strategy usually is to scar through the stage so it knocks D3's shield back far enough so he falls to the ledge.

That helps till they learn to just powershield the side b @___@...Coney never fails to powershield my side b's. He actually likes to wait for it and predict it with either a grab or charged Dsmash. He's really good at timing it.

Coney is disgusting vs ...Atomsk fails at powershielding side b (Look at him vs Kain lol), but he still will just shield it and then punish.

vs is horrible. Pick up another character for him or win the first round (Through pure awesomeness) and hope Brinstar is legal to at least Cp the third round.

 

[MegaRobMan]

D3 is GAIDS, ban him already.

 

[tekkie]

Seriously, my strategy usually is to scar through the stage so it knocks D3's shield back far enough so he falls to the ledge.

i was gonna say what about when they powershield but seagull already addressed that

seagull youre going to apex right?

 

[KRDsonic]

I went to a smashfest yesterday and I have a question now. Am I the only Wolf who can't lightstep 100% of the time? I had some friendlies against Ojih's wolf and he never messed up a single lightstep.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't even know how to lightstep and I can't seem to get a straigh answer to it either 0_o

 

[Seagull Joe]

i was gonna say what about when they powershield but seagull already addressed that

seagull youre going to apex right?

Yea of course I am. My internship will be full time from Monday-Friday, but I'll be teaching so I'll likely be done by 3 PM at latest most days (High school intern). I'll prob be up at Nj around 7-8 o clock Friday for Apex.

I don't even know how to lightstep and I can't seem to get a straigh answer to it either 0_o

Drop>Jump at a weird angle>Side b.

 

[earla]

ishy says wario cg is from 20% until death?

is that confirmed^

seems VITAL to know exactly when these cg's start, end and how to avoid.

what can you do about the wario one?

 

[tekkie]

Yea of course I am. My internship will be full time from Monday-Friday, but I'll be teaching so I'll likely be done by 3 PM at latest most days (High school intern). I'll prob be up at Nj around 7-8 o clock Friday for Apex.


Drop>Jump at a weird angle>Side b.

so what youre saying is that if i go to apex we're gonna chill like penguins in an ice tray? also dekar is going mm his diddy

ishy says wario cg is from 20% until death?

is that confirmed^

seems VITAL to know exactly when these cg's start, end and how to avoid.

what can you do about the wario one?

yes if it's done flawlessly it's like 20-220 or something

you can not get grabbed; it's not like wario has good mobility or anything

 

[.AC.]

Hey AC, when is your next tourney?

@Jebus, it's more than that which makes the MU terrible for Wolf.

i got a tourney in tj this saturday, then if there is a tourney in socal the week after i guess im going to that