Wolf's best CP stages (WIP, discuss character-specific tips if you have any!)

[Ishiey]

Norfair and Jungle Japes are really amazing stages for Wolf in matchups against characters that don't have very quick airspeed or get outcamped. Really good stages. I'll go so far as to say that Wolf:D3 on Norfair is 80:20 Wolf because you can literally just run away the ENTIRE TIME.

I wish I had a recording device so I could show all the stuff I like to do on these two stages, but for now I'll just have to type it out. Brinstar and Delfino are other really good stages in general, but maybe for another time.


JAPES:
- sideB from one of the side platforms lands you nicely on the upper middle platform, and it's fun to flash cancel in the beginning of a match to land in the center of the main platform for stage control.
- you can do all sorts of awesome lightstep tricks everywhere. EVERYWHERE. Not going to get into that here, but might talk about it later. There are also lots of fun walljump tricks off of the ledges, but once again, now's not the time.
- SH blaster when you're on a side platform covers the top platform, regular blaster spam covers most opponents trying to approach from the bottom platform.
- small platforms on the side can only be approached aerially or from the ledge due to their small size, which means Wolf gets to use his multitude of **** options to punish ledge options/landing lag (unless it's someone like Wario or Yoshi with an air grab, idk about that...). Staying in shield and using shieldgrab/usmash/fair does a good job of kicking the opponent off the platform.
- high platform in the middle still lets you autocancel a FH fair. Helps for platform camping as well, although there are usually better options (iirc D3's utilt still hits if you're up there X_x)
- dsmashes hit through the platforms, and if you sideB from below the 10% hit often connects with opponents that just stand there (not always a good idea if they're smart because they can dsmash you (ex. MK) and that will kinda suck hardcore :x)
- UpB Lightstepping (discovered by Semifer, you can see a video with some application here)
- if someone with poor air speed tries to approach with a SH onto your side platform from the main platform, they will either get blastered or be forced to airdodge through the blaster, which (if you're blastering properly) should end with them getting grabbed or usmashed or something. IIRC, MK gets hit by blasters when he tries to dash lol.

DIAGRAM FOR REFERENCE (it sucks I know, I should get a recording thingie...):

--------------------- ____________ -------------------------
----------------------------------------------------- W
____________ --------------------------------- B_________A
----------------______________________C ------------------


(this applies for the other ledge as well, but camping the right side is more fun :3 W = Wolf btw, I'm ******** so the --- means empty space and the blue ____ is the stage)

When someone is trying to approach you, you can run away by sideBing to the top of the center platform, run off the right and use sideB to land on top of point C, or (my favorite because it looks so **** cool) run off the right and lightstep off of ledge C while bairing the opponent, then running away (or just running away without the bair). This keeps you safe from anyone that tries to approach onto the platform, if you decided you don't feel confident ****** them as they land

Most characters won't want to run off of point C and grab the ledge at B because Wolf has a great ledge pressure game and the small platforms just make it so much easier to destroy everything (not that their other options are usually any better lol). HOWEVER, characters like MK and Pit can run off onto the ledge and then be in a relatively safe position to harass you with uairs from below the platform during their invincibility. You COULD try to dair them if you really wanted to, but I'd suggest running away. Once they grab the ledge, if you sideB to the top center platform they won't have enough time to punish. Pit can try firing arrows, but screw that, we have a reflector :3 So basically this should be a problem but isn't really, it's just pushing you off and giving you free access to the other platform.

Also... I still don't know if I would go here against Falco. I think in the end it might be a good idea, but it requires more patience/intelligence than I'd prefer to put in lol

---------------------------------------------------------------

NORFAIR:
- remember that you can drop through the platforms near the ledge (not too close though, otherwise it won't let you) and it will result in an instant ledge grab.
- you can drop from one ledge and reach any adjacent ledge with your double jump.
- if you fall back to the bottom corners (directly below the ledges of the top platforms and the same height as the bottom platform), upB can get you to any ledge on that side, if you feel like doing that for whatever reason.
- FH fair autocancels if you land on a platform one level above you, since the height difference is the same as the ones on battlefield.
- staggered platforms means abuse your juggle game :3 it really helps too because the platforms help you get higher on the stage while juggling, letting you kill with fair a lot easier.
- idk if this is just my personal preference, but jumping around and using nair on this stage seems to work out pretty well. I saw someone do this in a Wolf video looong ago on BF, but FH nair onto a platform above you does a decent job of getting the combo hits to connect.
- sooooo much air space. Hop around and blaster/bair/fair/shine/airdodge to dish out damage and stay safe. Few characters can match your airspeed, and those that can get outranged horizontally because Wolf has **** aerials, so... yeah.
- small platforms means less room for opponents to CG you and (more importantly) less room for them to land, which helps Wolf **** landings :3 Also means that fsmash and bair cover a ridiculous amount of the platform, which helps either push people onto the ledge or off onto a lower platform, both of which are good things for Wolf (this part also applies to Japes). Platform drop > bair is great btw.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Please throw in any tips/tricks that I haven't covered on these two stages If you're very knowledgeable about another stage like Brinstar that's generally regarded to be strong for Wolf, post about it in here and I'll fit your post into the OP ;D

 

[castorpollux]

you do not make enough threads.

 

[_Kain_]

Wolf still gets ***** by certain chars on Norfair though and his camping doesn't really get boosted much unless the opponent is actually trying to chase you like a dummy. It's ok good cp for some gay MU's. Japes on the other hand is godlike. Wolf> Falco for sure especially on Japes. Easily outcamp him, no guaranteed death spike, and easier to kill (if you get him on the side platforms at least). But yeah, the fact that chars have to jump to get to the side platform make Wolf's blaster godlike.

 

[Ishiey]

Can you please enlighten me on Wolf:Falco on Japes? This is what I know so far:

- Falco gets a stock if he spikes you into the water from the left side of the main platform
- He can stall with sideB in the water under the main platform FOREVER and I think it's just one step below perfect planking in terms of how impossible it is to hit Falco...
- Camping the side platforms doesn't work quite as well because he can force you to reflector with lasers, but then when he gets somewhat close you need to worry about if he's going to shoot his reflector out at you. Besides which, he can reflector your blaster too... and Falco players need to stop being so stupid. Once they have the lead, approacing is DUMB DUMB DUMB SADFSCSCAEWCDSCDSD WHY DO FALCOS NOT UNDERSTAND THIS

Norfair... I'll admit, the opponent needs to be dumb and chase you lol. But once you have the lead, what other option do they have? Jump a bit closer to them and harass them with blasters, from there it's just a matter of who's less patient imo. What matchups would you say are good for Norfair and which ones are bad?

 

[_Kain_]

Can you please enlighten me on Wolf:Falco on Japes? This is what I know so far:

- Falco gets a stock if he spikes you into the water from the left side of the main platform
- He can stall with sideB in the water under the main platform FOREVER and I think it's just one step below perfect planking in terms of how impossible it is to hit Falco...
- Camping the side platforms doesn't work quite as well because he can force you to reflector with lasers, but then when he gets somewhat close you need to worry about if he's going to shoot his reflector out at you. Besides which, he can reflector your blaster too... and Falco players need to stop being so stupid. Once they have the lead, approacing is DUMB DUMB DUMB SADFSCSCAEWCDSCDSD WHY DO FALCOS NOT UNDERSTAND THIS

Norfair... I'll admit, the opponent needs to be dumb and chase you lol. But once you have the lead, what other option do they have? Jump a bit closer to them and harass them with blasters, from there it's just a matter of who's less patient imo. What matchups would you say are good for Norfair and which ones are bad?

I got spiked into the water on the left side before and survived @_@ I just jumped out and side b'ed back to saftey. And plus their's plenty of platforms so you should not be getting death spiked in the first place that's what the center upper platform is for if your scared of getting 0 deathed

I never knew about the side b thing on the main platform but its stallin so yeaaaa...other than that i see no real purpose for it other than...gettin to the other side? or mindgaming?

Camping the side platform with Wolf against Falco makes wolf camping greater. 1- If they try to SHDL only one should b able to hit you, and your laser should be able to hit him. So his does 2%, ours does 6%, we win. The only time you should be reflecting his lasers is if he's too far for yours to reach him. Now the reflector n stuff is all adapting if they choose to reflector your laser it becomes reads after that. Plus it's easy to tell when they have to start theirs up since they have to start it up right when they SH, if not they'll have a ton of lag. Even so like I said it becomes reads after that, if they reflector and you don't shoot any laser there's a big window to go down and hit them with something. Point is Wolf can be more safe with his camping on Japes. he can reflector safely on the side platforms with no real fear of getting punished, if they SHDL close enough 6%>2%. If there even closer when their SHDLing you can punish with a bair or something. Wolf's options> Falco's options on japes.

Come to think of it I think Wolf camps even better in the center and Falco is on the side. You can SHL with no real safe option of gettin punished since all they have is phantasm from up there. They can reflector it but it won't hit you.

EDIT: yeah Falco's are dumb for ever approaching but...then again if they didn't i'd prolly really hate this game more since he'd be viable for top gay character in the game if they ever do that

 

[Ishiey]

Really? I could've sworn the spike gave too much hitstun or something... but okay. And agreed on the don't-get-grabbed part

Hmm... true with the camping stuff. I see If only Japes was legal in more areas :<

 

[castorpollux]

SO BASICALLY THE POiNT OF THIS THREAD IS TO LET WOFL PLAYERS KNOW NOT TO BAN JJ

 

[Deleted member]

I'd say it's bad to go against the Mother boys on Norfair. At least I have a lot of trouble fighting Jiffy's Ness on that stage.

 

[Ishiey]

SO BASICALLY THE POiNT OF THIS THREAD IS TO LET WOFL PLAYERS KNOW NOT TO BAN JJ

lmao.

@ Auspher: I can imagine that Ness' fair and psimagnet do a good job of countering Wolf's bair and blaster respectively... as for Lucas, idk what particular advantages Norfair would bring besides multiple ledges for his tether recovery, is there anything big that I'm missing?

 

[Deleted member]

Just his general floatiness and aerials(Uair has no landing lag, either) can cause trouble if Wolf is a platform above him. Don't forget about his psi magnet, either. With Magnet pull, Lucas can make his way around the stage as well as Wolf can. I'd say Lucas fairs as well as Ness does. He's my alt, and I generally can perform pretty well with him there.

Edit: Fair as in his performance, not forward air, lol.

Also, his Dsmash goes through those platforms, so it's not safe for Wolf to stay below him, either.

 

[Ishiey]

Hmm... I see. That makes lots of sense, dsmash going through platforms in particular is no fun ;___; and yeah I know you didn't mean forward air haha, I just meant that Ness fairs well on that stage because his fair has so much range and the stage is based largely on aerial and platform combat lol xD

 

[Kinetic]

I think I can clear up this confusion. Ness' fair makes him 'fare' quite well on Norfair.

 

[xX'Mitsurugi'Xx]

I totally agree on JJ, I've always had very good luck there.... People here (N.C. Tourney scene) seem to think it's bad for wolf for some reason.... Many a' Falco has tried to take me there and Chain>Spike me.... to their dismay I usually just camp the left platform, read their grab>dodge and double shine them for the early kill... Since the side platforms are so small, blowing them off the stage with the reflector is pretty easy. I also tend to take heavy Characters to this stage aswell such as: R.O.B., D.K., D3, Bowser, Snake. The reason I do this is because all these character tend to be very limited in their means of air travel or lack good air moves to defend themselves.

Snake - Snake is tough on this stage, but this is actually alot easier than you might think. By choosing this stage you've already gotten inside the mind of you're opponent. You've completely eliminated any type of C4 Recovery a snake can utilize. I know what you're thinking... "That Stage has a huge ceiling! It'll take forever to kill him!" Not true... The chances of getting an early kill by: spike, cypher gimp, off stage b-air or tricking snake into air dodging too early out of cypher off stage greatly increases. You're also thinking "Snake is Top Tier! He can easily out camp me!" Take a breath, calm down and think about your options. This stage has a very odd build... The gaps between the left and right platforms make nade camping a *****.... Why? You ask. Because, the only type of nade they're going get into your zone of influence is a lobbed, stripped or air tossed nade, shield dropped nade is not going to do snake any good in this camp fest/ fire fight. All of those types of nades can be easily, dodged, jumped over, shined or even thrown back at the opponent if it isn't cooked. What did you say noob? "I'm being ***** by mines and C4!" Let me tell you a trick that we figured out back when this game came out. Stop approaching!!! A non moving object on the stage is not going to hit a seasoned wolf. (More to come, I'll finish this post later. Please feel free to leave your opinion on what I've already written.)

 

[Ishiey]

I think I can clear up this confusion. Ness' fair makes him 'fare' quite well on Norfair.

...................

Kinetic 1, illiterate Wolf mains 0 ;___; lol

I totally agree on JJ, I've always had very good luck there.... People here (N.C. Tourney scene) seem to think it's bad for wolf for some reason.... Many a' Falco has tried to take me there and Chain>Spike me.... to their dismay I usually just camp the left platform, read their grab>dodge and double shine them for the early kill... Since the side platforms are so small, blowing them off the stage with the reflector is pretty easy. I also tend to take heavy Characters to this stage aswell such as: R.O.B., D.K., D3, Bowser, Snake. The reason I do this is because all these character tend to be very limited in their means of air travel or lack good air moves to defend themselves.

Snake - Snake is tough on this stage, but this is actually alot easier than you might think. By choosing this stage you've already gotten inside the mind of you're opponent. You've completely eliminated any type of C4 Recovery a snake can utilize. I know what you're thinking... "That Stage has a huge ceiling! It'll take forever to kill him!" Not true... The chances of getting an early kill by: spike, cypher gimp, off stage b-air or tricking snake into air dodging too early out of cypher off stage greatly increases. You're also thinking "Snake is Top Tier! He can easily out camp me!" Take a breath, calm down and think about your options. This stage has a very odd build... The gaps between the left and right platforms make nade camping a *****.... Why? You ask. Because, the only type of nade they're going get into your zone of influence is a lobbed, stripped or air tossed nade, shield dropped nade is not going to do snake any good in this camp fest/ fire fight. All of those types of nades can be easily, dodged, jumped over, shined or even thrown back at the opponent if it isn't cooked. What did you say noob? "I'm being ***** by mines and C4!" Let me tell you a trick that we figured out back when this game came out. Stop approaching!!! A non moving object on the stage is not going to hit a seasoned wolf. (More to come, I'll finish this post later. Please feel free to leave your opinion on what I've already written.)

So far so good :3 I like how you mentioned that Snake can't throw shield-dropped grenades because of the platforms, that actually helps a ton. Let me know when you've finished with the edits and I'll quote this into the OP Same goes for Auspher's posts about Norfair Except that's more of when I'm not being so lazy lol

 

[Deleted member]

This should also be renamed to something along the lines of Stage Discussion.

Also, aren't Snake's grenades hard to see on Japes?

 

[Semifer]

Don't forget UpB Lightstep on Japes, leads into crazy stuff.

 

[Laem]

upB lightstep?
tell me more, wise german wulf

 

[Ishiey]

@ Auspher: True about seeing the grenades... although if you're attentive I doubt it should be too much of an issue. And yeah, I'll rename this when I quote the posts into the OP

@ Semifer: Yeah I remember that thread that you made about it :3 Unfortunately I fail and couldn't get it to work... how do you implement it? Also, is using upB to drag opponents from the center platform to above/below (depending on DI) the side platforms while snapping to the ledge helpful in any way?

 

[Semifer]

Use UpB while standing on the center of the stage and go for one of the side-Platforms. Then the UpB will be either cancelled on the first edge of the side-Platform, or on the second one, or wolf just grabs one of the edges. It seems to be pretty random, but you can use some fixed points:
Roll next to the left edge = Lightstep at the first edge
Roll next to the right edge = Lightstep at the second edge

This way you can try combos like UpB to Nair, Bair, Uair or Fair, if you're lucky you can even edgespike opponents by this, which results to death at the left side-Platform.

And yeah I think it's helpful to drag them away, most opponents don't react fast enough and jump away, so they mess up and land in the water, the UpB is also pretty safe because the ending lag is cancelled by a ledge grab.

 

[Deleted member]

Use UpB while standing on the center of the stage and go for one of the side-Platforms. Then the UpB will be either cancelled on the first edge of the side-Platform, or on the second one, or wolf just grabs one of the edges. It seems to be pretty random, but you can use some fixed points:
Roll next to the left edge = Lightstep at the first edge
Roll next to the right edge = Lightstep at the second edge

I'm still a little lost to exactly what you're doing. I'm a visual learner, so do you have any videos of this being done?

 

[Ojih~Sama]

wow...this opens up alot of options on japes for me now :D

my friend has a capture card, i'll see if i can get some vids of this posted up o.o'
will also try to see if this works in other stages as well

 

[Choice]

i really wish jungle japes was legal instead of norfair, however that's not the case so no need in talkin bout that. anyways, you bring up some interesting stuff about norfair. i've been playing a lot on this stage recently and i'll check into some of that stuff too. especially the drop through insta grab stuff.

 

[M.C. Pee-Pants]

To bad japes and norfair is banned in ec

 

[Ojih~Sama]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhytY94t25g

Finally got around to uploading this vid, anyways....

This is a friendies match on japes, and here i try to utilize the UpB light stepping mentioned by Semifer. It's not the best gameplay but at least ppl will have a visual demonstration on how the technique can be done on japes. I was also trying to come up with applications for this in the middle of the match.

 

[Ishiey]

Ohmygod that's pretty cool :o Thank you for uploading a video, I'll put it in the OP right away

 

[Deleted member]

Wow...that does look neat!

I think Japes is slowly becoming one of my top CP choices.

 

[Deleted member]

On Norfair, I like to stand in the center of the middle platform and side-B to either of the platforms above me. Wolf snaps to the ledge when doing this, and it can also be done to either of the outermost platforms. Just make sure you are in the center of the platform you're Flashing from, or else you'll either fall through, or just overshoot the ledge and die. :x

Edit: Whoops...sorry about the double post.

 

[Deleted member]

Bumping, because this was a really good idea for a thread and we should discuss more good CP stages and Wolf's options there.

Next discussion: Brinstar?

 

[Ishiey]

TRIPLE POST HOW DARE YOU jk I completely forgot that this thread existed... lol... >______________________>

Anyways, yeah, time for stages that are actually legal lol.

BRINSTAR IT IS, DISCUSSION TIME GOOOOOO

 

[Choice]

Wolf should only go to neutrals + ps1.

 

[Deleted member]

Wolf should only go to neutrals + ps1.

But we're talking about Brinstar. :<

And I despise going to PS1 with Wolf. That ledge has not been kind to me.

 

[Ishiey]

Brinstar is awesome, idk what you're talking about Choice D:

For those who don't know, you can shark under the stage with uair and then take your pick for which ledge you want to go to. The slopes can make landing a bair on shield safer because of the slide you get from it, but it can also become less safe if your opponent is in the opposite direction of course. Those little breakable balls in the middle of the stage are really weird, sometimes they can cancel the lag from your attacks (fsmash is the most notable) or allow for some stupid combos due to a pseudo-wall, but they will also catch your attacks and slow them down due to the hitlag (or whatever the term is ).

All I have for now, anyone else have some general comments on brinstar?

 

[Deleted member]

I try to roll as little on this stage as possible, mainly because it can end up horribly if I get stuck in the bubble area(whatever you want to call it).

Last night, I witnessed a Wolf playing a Meta Knight there, and the MK was gliding up from under the stage to attack, but the Wolf was standing over the bubbles. He short-hop daired and it extended the hitbox, spiking the MK who was still beneath the bubbles.

Might get him to post that video soon.

 

[tekkie]

dairing the stage is still unreliable against most of the cast that has a good uair, like almost everyone who would be under the stage in the first place has

 

[Choice]

if you shark then someone breaks the middle you die.

 

[Deleted member]

Edit: Nvm, read the post wrong.

@Tekkie, that's why you do it in that area where the hit box will be extended to out prioritize the uair/glide attack/etc.

 

[Arrows]

I guess brinstar can be amazing if you take the time to learn all the stage tricks.

Personally, I kinda like delfino.

 

[tekkie]

Edit: Nvm, read the post wrong.

@Tekkie, that's why you do it in that area where the hit box will be extended to out prioritize the uair/glide attack/etc.

they can space/time stuff aginst the spike it's not like dair is fast or anything

against mk you could try that but end up eating like three uairs and a tornado (i know kain did this to lain or something where lain just bent over and took what must be the fastest sneakiest most broken dair spike in the game with MK while sharking)

 

[Ishiey]

It's actually kinda sad, MKs fall for the dair spike on Brinstar way more than they should lol. It's pretty obvious, but meh, whatever. Brinstar is good for Wolf just because of its size, which promotes aerial combat. Wolf has great aerials and can defend platforms pretty well, and there's also the occasional lava to force even more air combat, so... yeah, idk.

 

[Deleted member]

What do you mean by "defend platforms"? How exactly do you do it?

Stupid question, I know. -_-