~ Wolf's Match-Up's ~

[~ Gheb ~]

You should start with the characters most used in tourneys, or wolf's hard match-ups, link is not one of them...

Accepted and agreed

 

[§witch]

Well, keeping up with the current metagame is easily updatable. Anything big can be brought up. but people going to tourneys who need match-up help are better off with knowing how to fight snake, MK, falco, ddd, G&W, wario, marth, and someone else i can't remember...

 

[~ Gheb ~]

OK, so it's one of the very top characters. Any suggestions/wishes?

 

[Ishiey]

GaW or D3 are probably the ones that I have the most trouble with at the moment.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

O, I'll update them later (and make some advertise on their boards

 

[Sesshomuronay]

We should discuss falco hes annoying.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Falco will come soon. I'll add DDD first

 

[Azure Rune]

..........

 

[snadmonkey]

Quick note, when being chaingrabbed spam aaa combo. The reason is that if DDD does a downthrow to fsmash and u reflector ur dead. There is no move in DDD's arsenal that he can punish the AAA combo break outwith, can still chaingrab of course. If he does dash attack or fsmash AAA combo will hit him first. Also DDD is very weak to grabs cause if his immense size, he's very ez to ground out of the air or mid roll etc.

 

[Azure Rune]

..........

 

[Ishiey]

^ Don't DDDs use Fsmash when they'll be able to hit you off the edge, and end the chain with a bthrow otherwise? But a good DDD won't let you escape from the chain grab, so jab is probably more useful against better opponents. Also, invincibility frames on utilt. Watch out for that.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Thanks for the input, especially Snad! This cold be very helpful

 

[madattack]

does the first half of his Up B have super armor?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The SA lasts until the Up B reaches its peak

 

[snadmonkey]

Side note, if DDD is throwing out waddles dees use that opportunity to refresh ur best moves, go hit this little things with downtilt down air whatever it is u don't use regularly, let u refresh back air and fsmash aaa combo grab etc.

 

[Ishiey]

Side note, if DDD is throwing out waddles dees use that opportunity to refresh ur best moves, go hit this little things with downtilt down air whatever it is u don't use regularly, let u refresh back air and fsmash aaa combo grab etc.

Thats just plain awesome. Is it the same for the ballon in smashville and similar on-stage things, where hitting it takes up a slot in the used moves list?

 

[snadmonkey]

Yes, you also do it on things like the walls of luigi's mansion and walls on brinstar, two stages you might run into during a tournie.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I don't visit here very often at all but...would any of you lot mind if I added my opinion on Peach vs Wolf? I understand you're on DeDeDe this week but I have quite a bit of experience vs Wolf so I thought I could post some stuff about Peach on your match up thread since (no offence or anything) it's a bit bare. And more posts help right? ^^

 

[JFizzle]

OK, so apparently I played the best DDD in Florida today (best PLAYER in FL actually) and I was destroyed. I couldn't space him with ANY of my movesif my life depended on it. Luckily, I was coming back from a 3-stock, but couldn't take his last stock.

Al he did was chain-grab into D-tilt at the edge, and wrecked my recovery with his D-tilt. The only thing I learned to do was to run away from him, and fire one blaster, then run to the other side. I was able to shine some of his grab attempts, and random Bairs messed up his game a bit, but spacing Bairs and Fairs just gave me 10%-30%.

So, if anyone has any input, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[snadmonkey]

I'm assuming it was Seibrik. He's the best DDD in florida, I saw him play at FAST 1 and his partner Equi could hold his own as wolf. He's good there is no doubt about it, if u can't land any spaced aerials then that he means he's all defence, gotta start working in grabs, land behing aerial to reverse grab etc.

 

[JFizzle]

Good point. I only managed to grab him once lol. Then again, it was on FD. I felt completely useless. It seemed like a much closer match on Battlefield, even though I still lost.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

DDD will win against Wolf unless you're skill/luck is higher than your opponent...

@ Rickerdy

We'll do Peach a little later. First of all, it's not the most common match-up and we need to cover overused/critical characters first. You're input is appreciated, just wait...

 

[Turbo Ether]

Easily 75/25 or more in DDD's favor. Can't camp him, can't really outspace him, can't outgrab him, his chain grab takes you off the stage and his Bair eats both of your recovery options. You have to play so much smarter than the DDD to win. This character and Falco are the main reasons that Wolf can't win tournaments.

From my experience, your most difficult to punish poke is overspaced SH Fair, followed by max range Ftilt. Jab mixups can throw the DDD off and punish grab attempts, depending on controller port priority. If the DDD ever throws waddle dees at mid range for whatever reason, you can shield and punish with Fsmash. Your Blaster is safe at this range, so maybe you can bait his Side+B and punish. Never Fsmash unless you're punishing something.

The best stage counter pick against DDD is Norfair. The best starter is Battlefield, he's much easier to approach from underneath and in the air. If he counterpicks a walkoff or wall stage, I strongly recommend you switch to Falco or something.

 

[JFizzle]

I'm sorry, but there's just no way I could play as Falco lol, I never liked him. I'm sticking with Wolf because he has sooo much potential. I really appreciate your input Turbo Ether, I'll put it to good use next time I play.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Even DDD mainers would never claim to have such a large advantage and that Wolf can beat DDD, given the player has enough skill (unlike Falco, who really is unbeatable).

The rason for DDDs advantage is obviously the CG...

 

[Turbo Ether]

DDD is harder than Falco. DDD edgeguards Wolf very, very well, and he can chain grab -> edge guard at any percent. Against Falco, if you live past 40% or so, chain grab is no longer an issue and he becomes substantially easier to deal with. DDD is Wolf's hardest matchup imo, even without taking walk-off and wall stages into account. I would rather face Falco in tournament any day.

 

[Ishiey]

^ Nice to see I'm not the only one that thinks so. DDD can just destroy wolf off the stage, you have to do something really unorthodox to make it back to the ledge. Falco only has the spike, and also has his own recovering issues. Also, the weight is against us on this one, plus DDD has better kill moves.

I just want to mention utilt really quickly, if you're in close for whatever reason and spotdodge an attack with at least a LITTLE bit of ending lag, utilt can kill at decent percents. There's the 10, 9, and 8% utilt, and the knockback decreases as damage decreases, but it will almost ALWAYS be fresh, so... I guess its worth a try. Just throwing it out there because DDD can recover well, and the SA on upB, so vertical kills, while not wolf's specialty, can be helpful. I got a kill on my friend who mains MK with an utilt after his fsmash, it just makes you feel so cool. Like, really now, its demoralizing to get killed like that.

EDIT: Yeah utilt is only good for a last ditch effort, and thats just the full hit too. It kills DDD at around 150 though IIRC, so it could be useful when you're desperate.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ok. Next character will be Falco and I'll show you how much Falco pwns Wolf

 

[itsthebigfoot]

dedede can infinite wolf if he is at the ledge, just wanted to point that out

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Hmnm...K. If there's nothing more to say about the match-up i'll move on to Falco soon

I updated the OP. Current discussion: Falco

 

[§witch]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I can seriously help now. Falco and DDD are both really bad wolf match-ups, falco can gimp wolf just as hard as DDD. As you all know, wolf's fsmash is easily punished, not too hard for falco to get a low % grab, then after that you're at the edge and dead. If not, dthrow to DA>usmash nair, and guess what? You're at 70+%. Falco's bair stays out, and can get wolf pretty hard off the stage. Your best bet is pirate ship.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Not sure why a low percent Wolf would be Fsmashing Falco, when you know the Falco is looking to shield grab you and Wolf has better poking options anyway. Fsmasher is a punisher, not a poke.

 

[snadmonkey]

0-death from falco sucks, and using the dash cancel pivot grab he can get u to the ledge at the appropiate precent to spike you from anywhere on a flat stage. GL trying to to get grabbed below 40% cause he's got alot of tricks to do it, shop laser cancel to grab, jab to grab and all the non char specific grab methods.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Tips for falco... Dont get grabbed. If he grabs you your pretty dead unless you luck out. Fight in a way that wont get you grabbed.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

lol

Read what Snad said. "Don't get grabbed" doesn't work against falco...

 

[Ishiey]

Well, Falco's approach with SHDL, which CAN be reflected, but probably not the best idea if you want to be safe and avoid the 0-death. Snad said this somewhere else (don't remember where) but starting the match with 40% for wolf and like 10% for falco is better than 0/0. If you don't want to sit there and suck up damage, you could try sitting around with reflector and then rolling out of it when he's too close and jab/ftilt depending on distance. Also, since the only disjointed attacks in Falco's arsenal are downb and laser, using your reflector for countering when in close could be VERY useful for avoiding the grab, but its a lot easier said than done, falco players have plenty of tricks to bait you into a grab. Not an impossible matchup, but one where you simply cannot afford to make any mistakes.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So you're basically saying, it's best to go all out at the beginning of a stock, since there can't be happening anything worse than a CG anyways?

 

[JFizzle]

Yeah, maybe just accepting all the lasers and then unleashing hell at 40% isn't a bad idea.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

^ Actually, I thought it would be better to unleash hell before 40%. Afterwards you don't have to worry about the CG anymore. In other words: In the worst - and most likely - case, Wolf basically starts the battle at 40%. So instead of just fighting normally, it seems better to go all out. The moe dmg you deal to falco before the CG, the better your position, when you hit 40%+

 

[Ishiey]

True, since falco's lasers don't rack up damage too quickly, but there's always the option of staying well outside his grab range and just blastering until his reflector and lasers get you past cg %. I'm not patient enough to ever do that though, and what I've learned is that falcos like to sheildgrab EVERYTHING. I never tried a crossover fair but I'm assuming they'd grab you out of that too, if they were quick enough. Does anyone know if a perfectly spaced dtilt is safe from a shieldgrab? I mean if you were that far away you'd get reflector'd in the face by then, but keeping the right distance is a must here.