WORLD HOBO=Houston,tx=April 10-12th! go to results thread for pics/vids/results

[Shiri]

People should let Xyro do his thang. He knows what's up, so don't worry. You guys are thinking too hard.

 

[Psychoace]

Hey if i'm able to go, anybody want to help a brother out with carpooling? I live about three hours from Houston, but you really only have to take two roads to get from where i'm at to our destination. i'm going to be at the isp test in Austin in feb, and I would really like to go to this one since it would be my first major scale tournament. Money is the real deciding factor for me right, now but if I could get a ride from some freakishly awesome person you would be forever the coolest person ever.

 

[The MC Clusky]

People should let Xyro do his thang. He knows what's up, so don't worry. You guys are thinking too hard.

And he should single out Inui because Inui chooses to camp? Inui is doing what the rule set allows him to do and that's playing to win.

Why should anyone have to tell a person how to win a certain way? Such limitations do not belong in competitive play, which explores all possibilities (that are legal) to reaching the goal.

You can't apply the same definition of stalling to everyone, and Xyro can't watch every single match.

Hence why an undefined stalling rule is ********. Some people may be dq'd while others aren't. THAT's pretty unfair.

 

[St. Viers]

Yeah, also, camping for 5 seconds turns into you can't even run away fpr 2.5 seconds, because then you have to make your way back. Also, if someone is camping, and the other player lets them--that player is camping as well.

xyro, while I sympathize with your wanting to curb stalling, first you have to make clear exactly what constitutes stalling. If some one is hanging on the ledge, and the opponent is standing in such a way that the only way to get back on is to bait the dude into doing something, and then recovering, is that camping, ot still just getting of the ledge?

A more pressing point, though is the one I brought up earlier. If someone is camping in a less clear way than planking, then in actuality both characters are camping. For example, lets say that you are observing one of Inui's games. The oppnent is a Olimar skilled at zoning with his pikmin, so Inui is reduced to d-airing the pikmin while trying to get closer. This goes on for more than 5 seconds. Who is camping? I have the feeling you would say that Inui is, even though the Olimar was camping as well, simply by moving and throwing pikmin.

In many cases of camping , the opponent is camping as well by not trying to stop the other tactic. This is why it is common to only ban camping that can't be countered without probable loss of stock, such as Jiggz rising pound, or ness camping on the gun on Corneria, or peach's wallbombing, or sonics' homing attack under the stage (and according to some people, planking). In that case, it is only 1 character that is camping, because there is no viable option for the other player, except for picking the same character and hoping to counter it that way, which is one of the reasons something should be banned--and the reason that people were trying to get MK banned (saying the only way to beat him is a ditto).

So a guess one solution would be to simply make the player currently in the lead forfit, but that is a flawed solution. To go back the the olimar vs. MK example, lets say the the olimar is losing. He can then start to camp, and the MK will lose, because he was winning. That forces the MK to have to play recklessly, trying to end olimars camping, ot alternatively, and much more easily, take damage, so that olimar is "winning," at which point MK proceeds to run, and unless olimar catches him, or takes more damage than mk again, the olimar now loses.

That the problem with this type of blanket ban on something undefined. I notice you included the SBR's definition of camping, but unfortunately, that is too broad a definition--the stalling that was banned previously (infinate stalls, without any way of countering)

@people telling other players to simply learn the stages, instead of complaining how gay they are:

The people you are telling are most likely better than you at the game, and in fact do know the stages. The problem with the stages (again, I'll use Inui as an example, because you try and make him into a laughingstock) Inui dislikes fall into 3 categories, which according to some, and in fact according to the rationale of other commonly banned stages, make them unplayable: they encourage camping, have a walkoff edge, or have an unfair random element.

Now the first one isn't an issue, unless you include them, and then try and tell people they can't camp, at all (as the 5 second rule does) I can see why, if camping was a tactic peopel found as a respectable part of the game, these stages should be included, but with Luigi's Mansion as a CP, there is no real argument why Hyrule shouldn't be allowed, except that Hyrule is banned out of tradition, and people aren't connecting the dots.

The second issue seems pretty inargable to me: how can you include a stage with a walkoff ledge (YI), when stages like Bridge of Eldin are banned.

Now the third point, about an uncompetative element of randomness(which is where most of the stages Inui lists fall), isn't so clearcut: I mean, Halberd is allowed, right, and it has LAZERS, and the claw. So if that's allowed, why can't the other's? Unfortunately, this seems to be an opinion based category-- well, this stage isn't so bad, but spear pillar is, f-zero is, etc.

Sorry for the wall of text, but as xyro asked, I was (hopefully) reasonable, polite, and gave good reaons.

 

[Bwett]

KM: DMG would of gotten DQ'd first for going Brinstar and jumping around for the whole entire game.

Edit: This is Razer

 

[The MC Clusky]

KM: DMG would of gotten DQ'd first for going Brinstar and jumping around for the whole entire game.

Edit: This is Razer

I do remember seeing you play on Brinstar, but I only briefly caught that part. I was watching the very last match mostly.

Either way, my point about Xyro's rules dramatically altering the outcome of that match still stands.

 

[St. Viers]

Oh, something else:

Counter-pick: Luigi Mansion, Frigate Orpheon, Battleship Halberd, Rainbow Cruise, Brinstar, Delfino, Castle Siege, Pirate Ship, Pictochat, Jungle japes, Corneria, Nofair, Yoshi island(pipes), Green Greens, Pokemon Stadium 2, Pokemon Stadium 1.

Banned: Every thing else. If both players agree to play on a banned stage....its ok

If this is the case, it is extremely easy to simply "ban" stages people have a problem with, as many do with some of the stages Inui mentioned, and have a list of those stages, so that people who have no problem with them can simply CP them as usual, as allowed by your rules. This way, it's actually fair to both regions of players. Perhaps reallow them in the winner's/loser's grand finals, or something, as to not have wasted the time people have put into learning their fav. CP stage.

 

[DugFinn]

...wall of text...

Thank you for your reasonable, polite, and etc argument. It will be considered. I suggest everyone hold off on any more posting over "stages" issues until the above is considered (the Xyro is a wonderfully awesome, yet vengeful being and it will do more harm than good at this point to continue to post un-"reasonable, polite, and etc arguments"). Give it a few days, and we'll reach a decision, groovy?

Until then, here, go distract yourself with gayness.

 

[St. Viers]

thank you for the prompt answer dug finn ^_^

 

[DugFinn]

thank you for the prompt answer dug finn ^_^

No problem. I'll see what can be done. Xyro is a reasonable guy and he's cool, so I'm sure he'll consider perhaps a midway point type thing at least.... At least.

 

[TheJerm]

Heh, reasonable and cool? He has a problem with me when I have done NOTHING to him.

 

[DugFinn]

Heh, reasonable and cool? He has a problem with me when I have done NOTHING to him.

And therein lies the mystery of his charm? *shrugs* Oh, but whatever he does decide to go with, rules-wise, I will back him up on the decision. I respect Xyro greatly, and I will also respect his authority as a TO and the decisions that he makes (regardless of how GAY some of those stages may be... Ugh, heh).

 

[gunterrsmash01]

WHobo should have a live stream!

 

[AllyKnight]

I might goo to thiss

 

[St. Viers]

^^oh snap

10allys

 

[Inui]

Xyro, you are an unreasonable TO. I'm done discussing it. I'll just make anyone pay that picks those unfit stages.

 

[The MC Clusky]

He's actually a very good TO (courteous, sticks to the schedule, etc), but I can't agree with his ideas for rules.

-the "other" Texas TO

 

[Xyro77]

stalling is fairly subjective, and things that cannot be clearly defined in a ruleset don't belong in there in the first place.

Stalling should only be banned when a player has reached a position that makes it impossible for his opponent to reach him, either at all (like Sonic going under the stage with his neutral B) or without suffering death (Like the peach bomber stall in Melee). Or stuff like IDC.

If someone is not getting hit for a minute is it stalling?

How about 2 minutes? Should he get dq'd then?

If you set it at 2 minutes then the next best tactic is stalling for 1 minute and 59 seconds.

Xyro, you really ought to read Playing to Win.

www.sirlin.net


EDIT: and for anyone that thinks these kinds of rules don't affect anything, think about MANY of the close matches at FS5 and how different they would have gone if these rules were in effect.

DMG would have beaten Razer because Razer would have been DQ'd, Espy wouldn't have beaten Melee1 because he ran the clock 2 minutes on Rainbow Cruise. With a character like Sonic, often times running the clock IS his best tatic because he lacks kill power and priority.

People should let Xyro do his thang. He knows what's up, so don't worry. You guys are thinking too hard.

And he should single out Inui because Inui chooses to camp? Inui is doing what the rule set allows him to do and that's playing to win.

Why should anyone have to tell a person how to win a certain way? Such limitations do not belong in competitive play, which explores all possibilities (that are legal) to reaching the goal.

You can't apply the same definition of stalling to everyone, and Xyro can't watch every single match.

Hence why an undefined stalling rule is ********. Some people may be dq'd while others aren't. THAT's pretty unfair.

Yeah, also, camping for 5 seconds turns into you can't even run away fpr 2.5 seconds, because then you have to make your way back. Also, if someone is camping, and the other player lets them--that player is camping as well.

xyro, while I sympathize with your wanting to curb stalling, first you have to make clear exactly what constitutes stalling. If some one is hanging on the ledge, and the opponent is standing in such a way that the only way to get back on is to bait the dude into doing something, and then recovering, is that camping, ot still just getting of the ledge?

A more pressing point, though is the one I brought up earlier. If someone is camping in a less clear way than planking, then in actuality both characters are camping. For example, lets say that you are observing one of Inui's games. The oppnent is a Olimar skilled at zoning with his pikmin, so Inui is reduced to d-airing the pikmin while trying to get closer. This goes on for more than 5 seconds. Who is camping? I have the feeling you would say that Inui is, even though the Olimar was camping as well, simply by moving and throwing pikmin.

In many cases of camping , the opponent is camping as well by not trying to stop the other tactic. This is why it is common to only ban camping that can't be countered without probable loss of stock, such as Jiggz rising pound, or ness camping on the gun on Corneria, or peach's wallbombing, or sonics' homing attack under the stage (and according to some people, planking). In that case, it is only 1 character that is camping, because there is no viable option for the other player, except for picking the same character and hoping to counter it that way, which is one of the reasons something should be banned--and the reason that people were trying to get MK banned (saying the only way to beat him is a ditto).

So a guess one solution would be to simply make the player currently in the lead forfit, but that is a flawed solution. To go back the the olimar vs. MK example, lets say the the olimar is losing. He can then start to camp, and the MK will lose, because he was winning. That forces the MK to have to play recklessly, trying to end olimars camping, ot alternatively, and much more easily, take damage, so that olimar is "winning," at which point MK proceeds to run, and unless olimar catches him, or takes more damage than mk again, the olimar now loses.

That the problem with this type of blanket ban on something undefined. I notice you included the SBR's definition of camping, but unfortunately, that is too broad a definition--the stalling that was banned previously (infinate stalls, without any way of countering)

@people telling other players to simply learn the stages, instead of complaining how gay they are:

The people you are telling are most likely better than you at the game, and in fact do know the stages. The problem with the stages (again, I'll use Inui as an example, because you try and make him into a laughingstock) Inui dislikes fall into 3 categories, which according to some, and in fact according to the rationale of other commonly banned stages, make them unplayable: they encourage camping, have a walkoff edge, or have an unfair random element.

Now the first one isn't an issue, unless you include them, and then try and tell people they can't camp, at all (as the 5 second rule does) I can see why, if camping was a tactic peopel found as a respectable part of the game, these stages should be included, but with Luigi's Mansion as a CP, there is no real argument why Hyrule shouldn't be allowed, except that Hyrule is banned out of tradition, and people aren't connecting the dots.

The second issue seems pretty inargable to me: how can you include a stage with a walkoff ledge (YI), when stages like Bridge of Eldin are banned.

Now the third point, about an uncompetative element of randomness(which is where most of the stages Inui lists fall), isn't so clearcut: I mean, Halberd is allowed, right, and it has LAZERS, and the claw. So if that's allowed, why can't the other's? Unfortunately, this seems to be an opinion based category-- well, this stage isn't so bad, but spear pillar is, f-zero is, etc.

Sorry for the wall of text, but as xyro asked, I was (hopefully) reasonable, polite, and gave good reaons.

You people know what stalling is and how stupid it is. If i see it, and ill admit i cant watch all of you, you will be DQed. I will not have to take away decent levels because of a select few morons choose to pick a broken character and abuse the h3ll out of this game.

in fact, ill just do this. ill use MY own judgment(and i will get others to watch matches as well) to decide if its stalling. If you think some thing MIGHT be stalling, dont do it. If you have to stall to win matches, then by all means stall, ill DQ you and move on to people who actually want to PLAY smash and not GAY smash.

oh and about the levels. The levels i allow are all fine.
f-zero cars are predictable and have patterns/give warning...no johns.
Brinstar and norfair all have MASSIVE warnings ahead of time......no johns.
Pictochat....7-9 drawings hurt you out of what 27ish? pay attention to your surroundings(you do it with any other stage).....no johns.
Green greens.......you have to be a moron to hit or stand near the bombs.....no johns.
Halbert, claw pauses before it strikes. bombs is slow as ****. laser beam warns you will a LOUD sound and u can DI out of it......no johns.


I can go on but i wont, if you people get hit by this stupid stuff, then u deserve it and i will laugh at your DUMB ***.

if all of you are going to complain, just dont go. its a Xyro/Dugfin tourney, we do it the way we want.

and inui, ill be watching.

I might goo to thiss

plz do.

Xyro, you are an unreasonable TO. I'm done discussing it. I'll just make anyone pay that picks those unfit stages.

Do you have a cell phone? yes? Good, go call some one who cares........

 

[TheJerm]

Some bad things actually happen on green greens. You'll be fighting, then a bomb comes out of nowhere and and kills you cause of your attack radius. Orr you could simply be trying to jump to the other side and the bomb could fall on you. Nearly impossible to see it =/

 

[Inui]

oh and about the levels. The levels i allow are all fine.
f-zero cars are predictable and have patterns/give warning...no johns.
Brinstar and norfair all have MASSIVE warnings ahead of time......no johns.
Pictochat....7-9 drawings hurt you out of what 27ish? pay attention to your surroundings(you do it with any other stage).....no johns.
Green greens.......you have to be a moron to hit or stand near the bombs.....no johns.
Halbert, claw pauses before it strikes. bombs is slow as ****. laser beam warns you will a LOUD sound and u can DI out of it......no johns.

@people telling other players to simply learn the stages, instead of complaining how gay they are:

The people you are telling are most likely better than you at the game, and in fact do know the stages. The problem with the stages (again, I'll use Inui as an example, because you try and make him into a laughingstock) Inui dislikes fall into 3 categories, which according to some, and in fact according to the rationale of other commonly banned stages, make them unplayable: they encourage camping, have a walkoff edge, or have an unfair random element.

I'm willing to bet I'm significantly better than you at all of those stupid stages and would wreck you (and the vast majority of TX besides like top 5 maybe) very easily on those dumb stages. In fact, Meta Knight is downright broken on stages like Norfair and Snake is ******** on Green Greens and Corneria. I still don't think those stages should be in because playing on such stupid stages when skill is what should matter and money is on the line makes absolutely no sense.

There are random elements and crap that can decide matches that no amount of skill can avoid. Stages like this should not be allowed. PICTOCHAT, LOL.

 

[Infinitysmash]

Blunt question: Why do you feel the need to act like that, Inui?

Also: would it be possible to get some crew battles in at this Xyro or do we not have time in the schedule for that?

 

[Inui]

Blunt question: Why do you feel the need to act like that, Inui?

Logic and sense have failed when it comes to Xyro. Now I'm just frustrated.

Everything I've said about those stages is factual.

His responses are like:

"no johns don't get killed by the random line as you're recovering that you could do literally nothing about"

oh wow how insightful

 

[White Out]

You people know what stalling is and how stupid it is. If i see it, and ill admit i cant watch all of you, you will be DQed.

oh and about the levels. The levels i allow are all fine.
f-zero cars are predictable and have patterns/give warning...no johns.


if all of you are going to complain, just dont go. its a Xyro/Dugfin tourney, we do it the way we want.

Stalling doesn't have an exact definition and people can abuse your rule by forcing others into situations where they have to stall such as the olimar example in that well written brick of text

and F-Zero the cars aren't the only problem i want to see you recover as olimar or other characters with tethers on a stage with no ledges. Their isn't Luck or skill involved in this it just simple isn't fair for all characters simply saying no johns when people have valid reasons for wanting bans is not an answer



Some people are complaining but others namely ST. Veirs have put up valid arguments that should be taken into consideration and with an attitude like that people other then Inui will begin to start calling you unreasonable

 

[Xyro77]

I'm willing to bet I'm significantly better than you at all of those stupid stages and would wreck you (and the vast majority of TX besides like top 5 maybe) very easily on those dumb stages. In fact, Meta Knight is downright broken on stages like Norfair and Snake is ******** on Green Greens and Corneria. I still don't think those stages should be in because playing on such stupid stages when skill is what should matter and money is on the line makes absolutely no sense.

There are random elements and crap that can decide matches that no amount of skill can avoid. Stages like this should not be allowed. PICTOCHAT, LOL.

you use metaknight, i use samus.........its pretty obvious i wont win. snake is bad on green green and corneria if u let him. he will kill u off top easily(corneria) or off the side(green green) or set traps all over the places(green greens) if you LET him. thats part of the game, dont let the foe do stuff that will get u *****.........common sense. east coast must not have it.

i will admit picto chat does have random drawings........so? like i said its lik 9 out fo 27 or something......honestly, if that stage bothers you THAT BAD, i could take it off cause i COULD see how you jump and then a random spike appears.

Blunt question: Why do you feel the need to act like that, Inui?

Also: would it be possible to get some crew battles in at this Xyro or do we not have time in the schedule for that?

the place is open 24 hours iirc so i dont think it will be a probelm.

Logic and sense have failed when it comes to Xyro. Now I'm just frustrated.

Everything I've said about those stages is factual.

His responses are like:

"no johns don't get killed by the random line as you're recovering that you could do literally nothing about"

oh wow how insightful

my responses are around the lines of "no johns" "inui is a wimp" "play a real character" "dont go if all you will do is complain because WHOBO will be better with out your kind"

yea some thing like that.

Stalling doesn't have an exact definition and people can abuse your rule by forcing others into situations where they have to stall such as the olimar example in that well written brick of text

and F-Zero the cars aren't the only problem i want to see you recover as olimar or other characters with tethers on a stage with no ledges. Their isn't Luck or skill involved in this it just simple isn't fair for all characters simply saying no johns when people have valid reasons for wanting bans is not an answer



Some people are complaining but others namely ST. Veirs have put up valid arguments that should be taken into consideration and with an attitude like that people other then Inui will begin to start calling you unreasonable

Your right, there isnt an exact def of "stalling" and there never will be(you people use this excuss to continue to stall). SO, i will take it upon myself to decide if its stalling and i will have others doing the same. As i said before, if you THINK it could possible be stalling, dont do it.

a COUNTER PICK STAGE is meant to give a severe disadvantage to the foe. meta knight and luigi mansion(brawl). Olimar and luigi mansion. these are all counter picks and it sucks if they are used on you. boo hoo.. same goes when i choose to CP f-zero stage on olimar.

if you really wanna complain about CPs....go fight a peach on mute city or brinstar or dream land

 

[The MC Clusky]

Quoted from Playing to Win, by David Sirlin

The derogatory term “scrub” means several different things. One definition is someone (especially a game player) who is not good at something (especially a game). By this definition, we all start out as scrubs, and there is certainly no shame in that. I mean the term differently, though. A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.

Now, everyone begins as a poor player—it takes time to learn a game to get to a point where you know what you’re doing. There is the mistaken notion, though, that by merely continuing to play or “learn” the game, one can become a top player. In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.

The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant.

...

Doing one move or sequence over and over and over is a tactic close to my heart that often elicits the call of the scrub. This goes right to the heart of the matter: why can the scrub not defeat something so obvious and telegraphed as a single move done over and over? Is he such a poor player that he can’t counter that move? And if the move is, for whatever reason, extremely difficult to counter, then wouldn’t I be a fool for not using that move? The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. That is true by definition of playing to win. The game knows no rules of “honor” or of “cheapness.” The game only knows winning and losing.

A common call of the scrub is to cry that the kind of play in which one tries to win at all costs is “boring” or “not fun.” Who knows what objective the scrub has, but we know his objective is not truly to win. Yours is. Your objective is good and right and true, and let no one tell you otherwise. You have the power to dispatch those who would tell you otherwise, anyway. Simply beat them.

 

[ADHD]

Finally, metaknight is legal!

 

[TheJerm]

Stalling doesn't have an exact definition and people can abuse your rule by forcing others into situations where they have to stall such as the olimar example in that well written brick of text

and F-Zero the cars aren't the only problem i want to see you recover as olimar or other characters with tethers on a stage with no ledges. Their isn't Luck or skill involved in this it just simple isn't fair for all characters simply saying no johns when people have valid reasons for wanting bans is not an answer



Some people are complaining but others namely ST. Veirs have put up valid arguments that should be taken into consideration and with an attitude like that people other then Inui will begin to start calling you unreasonable

Even though I dont agree with xyro on some of these stages, if thats the only stage you have a problem with.. guessing your an olimar main, couldnt you just ban the stage?

 

[DugFinn]

Blunt question: Why do you feel the need to act like that, Inui?

Also: would it be possible to get some crew battles in at this Xyro or do we not have time in the schedule for that?

Yes, there will be crews! You are scheduled for 9 pm on Sat. night.

Inui is just... Inui. I myself have been gayed out of tournaments and contest by circumstantially imposed "rules" so I can sympathize with his and everyone else's plight in wanting to "define" stall and have stages that under their definition arean't "stupid".

But... And I know this reply is going to be quoted and blasted, *sigh*, but here it goes... Deal with it.

I mean, when infinite grabs ran rampant, the creed was "don't get grabbed" (<-- as unrealistic as this was). And when Metaknight was ****** from heavenly bestowed Sakurai brokeness, the motto then was, "Don't ban him, play to win." And now stages are being called into question for whatever reason, well, how about you USE the stage to your advantage.

I mean, it's not like you can't strike a stage at the beginning, for one. And second, it's not like your opponent has a magical barrier of anti-gay stage force field protection around himself. Your opponent has to deal with the stage TOO, so use that against him. Play with the stage, not against it.

Sure, every character has advantages and disadvantages on each stage, but that's the whole POINT. It wouldn't be a COUNTER pick if it didn't COUNTER. Some characters though (namely Metaknight) seem to do well on ALL stages, blah, blah, yes, we've heard this before. Yes, we've heard this before, pick Metaknight, play to win, abuse the stage, be a jerk, etc, etc. Fine. DO THAT. Play to win. Go for it. We encourage playing to win. Abuse the stage. I'm telling you to do it. Go, go now - abuse it!

BUT! The ONE stipulation we have, and seriously now it's not that amazing hard to grasp, is to not EXCESSIVELY stall. Let me try to be a bit clear on that.

Stalling momentarily to gain an advantage is understandable. I mean, in some aspects spacing can fall into this category. Or simply not running like a moron into the fry. Stalling for a few seconds to bait your opponent into doing something stupid, or to get yourself into the proper position or simply avoiding a specific area of the stage. OK, we get that. But note that all of that RARELY goes over five seconds.

But - Performing moves that make it to where your opponent has NO option other than to just sit there and loose, not for lack of trying, but because you spent the last 20 full seconds either running non-stop (like with your back to your opponent not even bothering to dodge or side step, or counter, nothing, just pure unadulterated running), or performing a move that gives you invincibility that completely prevents the opponent from being able to touch you at all - and then doing that for the SOLE purpose of running the timer out - then it becomes a problem.

That's not playing OR competitive. That's called running the timer out - and we don't allow that in Houston tournaments. Period. This is NOT up for discussion.

No. It is NOT hard to see when someone is momentarily stalling to "play" the game with intelligence (which is OK), or when they are PURPOSEFULLY running to stall the timer. THAT is the MAIN reason why the "No excessive stalling rule" was added.

If you still have problems figuring out how to differentiate the two, then try this as a guideline: if you go past five seconds of either running or doing an invincibility move then you're in the excessively stalling danger zone.

If you have a problem with this rule, then that means you PLAN on EXCESSIVELY stalling and thus running the timer out, OTHERWISE, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE RULE.

As for the stages, again, use them against your opponent. Learn the stage. Learn to counter pick. If your opponent picks a stage that gives you an advantage, then make them pay. If you have to reasonably refrain in some areas from doing stupid crap as part of your game play and that 'causes you to temporarily stall, then that won't be an issue. But if you EXCESSIVELY STALL (it was basically described up above what we meant by this), then your round may be forfeit. Us TOs have brains. WE can tell the difference. It's not too much to ask that you players use your brains too.

 

[DMG]

I will not attend this most likely. My best strategy in certain matchups is to run around and hop back and forth (Dedede, Snake, Yoshi, Zelda, IC's, MK, and so on and so forth.)

If I can't run from Dedede or IC's (or any character for that matter) then I probably won't play in this.

Edit: I also agree that $1000 Bonus for First is not very appealing, I'd rather have that go to the top 8 where they get $125 guaranteed for getting into the Top 8 or give $200 to the Top 5. That will at least help pay for the plane tickets for OOS people and then they also get what they would normally get from placing.

About stages, there are certain stages allowed that should be off for various reasons. Luigi's Mansion, Corneria, and Rainbow Cruise are pretty bad. Some of the others like Picto Chat, Port Town, etc. Those are alright compared to Corneria, LM, and RC.

Do you know how dumb it is to be FORCED to ban a stage vs someone or get a near guaranteed loss, BECAUSE of the stage? Like, I can understand getting advantages from the stage by either knowing more about it than your opponent or by being more comfortable with it, and I can even understand characters gaining slight advantages from things like a lower ceiling, uneven terrain, close sides, etc. But it is dumb to allow stages that characters can DOMINATE no matter how comfortable you are on playing that stage. If you lose the first match, then GG you lose the set once they take you to their nearly guaranteed Win on their CP.

Basically, extreme CP stages should be off. Minor CP stages should be allowed.

 

[Inui]

Stages shouldn't decide the outcome of matches. Players should.

Stages like Pictochat, Norfair, Green Greens, Corneria, and Aero Dive can decide the outcomes of matches regardless of skill.

 

[Niko_K]

Yay for pictochat, green greens, norfair, aero dive weegees and corneria for legal. Now some skill-less douche is going to win too much money.

World? This is right near Apex that is an ECRC event. Good luck with that xyro. Not to mention we already have COT4 as a national tournament. Kinda close don't you think.

 

[TheTantalus]

Stages shouldn't decide the outcome of matches. Players should.

Stages like Pictochat, Norfair, Green Greens, Corneria, and Aero Dive can decide the outcomes of matches regardless of skill.

I think every player in Atlantic north would agree with this statement

I can live with Norfair, or even Corneria. But the other are terrible and should be banned.

 

[Inui]

Norfair is the most tolerable one on the list, and only if Planking is banned.

 

[Niko_K]

Xyro for fail TO.

I'm organizing a ridiculously huge tournament in Canada. Watch out for it.

 

[Anth0ny]

Xyro for fail TO.

I'm organizing a ridiculously huge tournament in Canada. Watch out for it.

...

 

[DugFinn]

My best strategy in certain matchups is to run around and hop back and forth (Dedede, Snake, Yoshi, Zelda, IC's, MK, and so on and so forth.)

If I can't run from Dedede or IC's (or any character for that matter) then I probably won't play in this.

Edit: I also agree that $1000 Bonus for First is not very appealing, I'd rather have that go to the top 8 where they get $125 guaranteed for getting into the Top 8 or etc...

Well, I guess I have to repeat myself... PLEASE READ THE FOLlOWING:

1. "run around and hop back and forth" is NOT banned. Doing this is fine. Stalling "excessively" is banned. What is excessively? Doing it with the purpose of running the clock out intentionally and/or over long periods of time where it provides no strategic advantage other THAN running the clock out. Dr. Mario Guy, I've seen you play. You play perfectly fine. You do not fall into this category. The way you play will not get you in any trouble. People, we're talking about EXCESSIVE.

2. The $1000 IS BEING DISTRIBUTED INTO THE TOP SPOTS! It is NOT going only to first place. This will be corrected in the title eventually. It was corrected on the first post days ago.

3. As for stages.... I already said that I would talk to Xyro about it. So, stop posting about that (every time you post about it you make it harder for me to possibly get them changed - if you want them changed then - stop making it harder for me!)

4. Xyro is an amazing TO. Seriously, he is. Please don't negatively post about a TO whose tournaments you have never been to. As a fellow TO, you should know better.

 

[Inui]

If a stage screams at me "RUN THE CLOCK! I AM PERFECTLY DESIGNED TO GIVE YOU AN EASY PATH TO VICTORY!", I will be running the clock. I don't have to excessively stall to do so. I just have to hit and run and camp.

 

[DugFinn]

If a stage screams at me "RUN THE CLOCK! I AM PERFECTLY DESIGNED TO GIVE YOU AN EASY PATH TO VICTORY!", I will be running the clock. I don't have excessively stall to do so. I just have to hit and run and camp.

And to a CERTAIN point... I don't disagree with you. BUT... If you run the clock through excessive stalling, you run the risk of forfeiting the match. I really don't want that to happen to you. Part of the issue is the stage selection. SO, give me a chance to talk with Xyro and get the stage list possibly altered. I promise nothing, but I will try. Until then, ya'll be nice (and stop making this harder for me!), groovy.

 

[Niko_K]

Xyro clearly isn't changing the list, and that's why he is a bad TO. TO's are supposed to litsen to the overall consensus of players attending the tournament to make the tournament as liked and BALANCED as possible.

Oh well, have fun with Inui exploiting those stages. He has the patience of a beast.

<3 Inui

Spoiler

<----I never thought I'd see the day

 

[Jack Kieser]

Jeez, why is everyone so impatient? We have what, a little under 2 MONTHS left until the day of the tourney. There is PLENTY of time for the rules to change. Maybe if we didn't spend so much time *****ing and taking up Xyro's attention, he would be able to think a little bit.

Calm down, people. We still have a ways to go.