! WORLD SMASH HIP-HOP ! Rap/HipHop/R&B/ Discussion Thread (explicit warning)

[IAmBlu3]

One of the only more recent rappers I'd consider putting anywhere near Ye in terms of overall artistry would be Slug from Atmosphere.

Slug's a recent rapper?

Lupe has a better flow and lyrics, though his delivery is bout as soft as tissue.

of course, as an artist, kanye has an edge but lupe has also been venturing out with his sound. i would think The cool showed plenty of variety sonically.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Slug's a recent rapper?

Well, I guess they're technically not recent, since Atmosphere was active well before their late 90s debut. I guess I generally consider any person or group whose first album came out after Eminem's first album to be "recent". Maybe that's not the best distinction, but that's pretty much what I use.

Lupe has a better flow and lyrics, though his delivery is bout as soft as tissue.

Eh, I don't think his flow is better. Lupe can flow at faster speeds than Kanye, but Kanye flows with his beats so well.

of course, as an artist, kanye has an edge but lupe has also been venturing out with his sound. i would think The cool showed plenty of variety sonically.

I'm not saying Lupe isn't creative, I'm just saying he's not as artistic as Kanye. Don't get me wrong, I like Lupe, and I do think he has good flow and lyrics, but I just don't like him as much as Kanye. Honestly, there's very few people I do like as much as Kanye (music-wise, not personality-wise).

 

[IAmBlu3]

Kanye flows with his beats so well.

that's because he makes his beats....

 

[KrazyGlue]

that's because he makes his beats....

Yeah, so? If that's what makes him good, then so be it. It shouldn't be held against him that he makes his own beats.

 

[jugfingers]

haha.

I don't think he was saying that in a negative context.

 

[MBlaze]

I seriously can't believe were comparing Lupe and Kanye. I'd only be willing to debate about them lyrically, in which Lupe would win but comparing them any other way just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[~N9NE~]

Both don't really interest me. Their music, aside from a few tracks, just doesn't move me.

But ayo, this Bobby V debut album lol...

 

[IAmBlu3]

Yeah, so? If that's what makes him good, then so be it. It shouldn't be held against him that he makes his own beats.

lol jackass.

i'm saying that kanye can manipulate his instrumentals to fit his flow so of course he sounds good over his beats.

^^see. jug jug gets it lol.

 

[Matador]

Bottom line?

Food and Liquor > Kanye's best album...unless it's his most recent album...since I haven't heard it yet.

I'm behind this "Let's Dissect Lyrics!" movement.

Let's start with Kick Push II.

Verse 1


Look at what we did, came a long way from Dirty Ghetto Kids (Uh, yeah)
Look at what we did, came a long way from Dirty Ghetto Kids (Yeah)
You know what it is (Haha, uh, uh, come on)
When the cops didn't find him for grindin' though
They kinda blew the vibe, figured it was time to go
Plus, he had to at home a long time ago
And he had made like ten dollars off the sign he wrote
It read: "A little hungry, and need a little money, it's for my little sister, and her little tummy."
Wasn't lyin' though didn't go buy hydro
Went to the restaurant and bought two gyros
'Cause he knew they wasn't cooking where he lived
Da-kook-akook-akook's now took him to the crib
A little hurt from the rail he took into the ribs
Right bast the pushers who couldn't underdig
"What's the use of pushin' if you ain't pushin' none of this"
If i kick with y'all I'm just pushin' for a bit
But, what was on his mind had pushed him to the lid
They best customer wasn't cooking for a kid
Yes sirrrr

Go ahead and youtube it.

While you're at it, link me a story-telling track of this caliber that Kanye has dropped. Who knows, maybe I'm just ignorant of his better work?

Edit: Gah...that's what I get for being lazy...last time I cut/paste lyrics...

 

[KrazyGlue]

^ Above (ninja'd):

I don't think any one single verse by Ye defines him; that adds to my feeling that his songs are meant to be listened to as whole albums as opposed to just a bunch of songs. So I don't like this whole "comparing lyrics" thing. Also his lyrics are really tailored to their beats so they don't have the same impact when you're not in the emotion of the song.

But ayo, this Bobby V debut album lol...

Haha, N9NE is FOCUSED.

RnB has never really been one of my favorite genres (save for some great tracks) but I've always liked classics like Marvin Gaye and now I'm trying to get into Teddy Pendergrass. Anyone have recommendations?

lol jackass.

i'm saying that kanye can manipulate his instrumentals to fit his flow so of course he sounds good over his beats.

^^see. jug jug gets it lol.

Alright, man, sorry, you gots to chill though.

 

[IAmBlu3]

While you're at it, link me a story-telling track of this caliber that Kanye has dropped. Who knows, maybe I'm just ignorant of his better work?

i don't consider that song to be that dope as a story.

Kick, Push > Kick, Push II.

....does kanye have any tracks where he tells a whole story?

 

[KrazyGlue]

I don't know what you mean by "whole story".

Would Blame Game satisfy you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VOVStL0NW0

 

[~N9NE~]

Kanye and Lupita got people heated lol.

This Joe - And Then... track though...

 

[Matador]

Obvious Kanye-Kop-Out is obvious

mmk, I understand...

Nah, I'm kidding, I do agree that he's great at putting together albums. If you recall, some time ago in this thread about Rick Ross being great at putting together albums and making them flow better than most artists despite not even having the lyrical ability of a chipmunk. This is sort of the same thing.

Except Kanye has lyrical ability. So yeah, I know what you mean. As far as complete albums go, both Lupe and Kanye have complete works (The Cool is supposedly telling a story...I don't see it. Food and Liquor definitely though) and may be more preference than anything.

That'd explain why this is such a ludicrous comparison to me. Kanye's 2nd and 3rd albums were far from his first as far as quality goes. Still solid, but meh. Both Lupe's albums are different, and new, and amazing to me.

i don't consider that song to be that dope as a story.

Kick, Push > Kick, Push II.

....does kanye have any tracks where he tells a whole story?

Yeah, that's one of my debate tactics.

I put up a not-so-hot story track...

He rebuttles with like...Kanye's BEST or something...

Then I go "HA" then give him Dance With The Devil.

 

[IAmBlu3]

whole story being all 3 verses on the track are relevant to the same story.

 

[KrazyGlue]

mmk, I understand...

Nah, I'm kidding, I do agree that he's great at putting together albums. If you recall, some time ago in this thread about Rick Ross being great at putting together albums and making them flow better than most artists despite not having the lyrical ability of a chipmunk. This is sort of the same thing.

Except Kanye has lyrical ability. So yeah, I know what you mean. As far as complete albums go, both Lupe and Kanye have complete works (The Cool is supposedly telling a story...I don't see it. Food and Liquor definitely though) and may be more preference than anything.

That'd explain why this is such a ludicrous comparison to me. Kanye's 2nd and 3rd albums were far from his first as far as quality goes. Still solid, but meh. Both Lupe's albums are different, and new, and amazing to me.

Yeah, I mean, I do actually think Lupe is a better lyricist, but I don't think it's such a massive gap as some people make it out to be.

whole story being all 3 verses on the track are relevant to the same story.

In that case, definitely. Blame Game, All of the Lights, Hell of A Life, etc. apply even just from his most recent album. I suppose Blame Game is the most "story-like" of that group. Or you can look further back in tracks like All Falls Down or Diamonds From Sierra Leone.

 

[IAmBlu3]

Except Kanye has lyrical ability. So yeah, I know what you mean. As far as complete albums go, both Lupe and Kanye have complete works (The Cool is supposedly telling a story...I don't see it. Food and Liquor definitely though) and may be more preference than anything.

That'd explain why this is such a ludicrous comparison to me. Kanye's 2nd and 3rd albums were far from his first as far as quality goes. Still solid, but meh. Both Lupe's albums are different, and new, and amazing to me.

some of the tracks on The Cool was telling a story...but i didn't see the whole album as being a story.

Also, I think Late Registration > College Dropout, personally.

Kanye and Lupita got people heated lol.

lol errr...who caught feelings?

 

[Matador]

Yeah, I mean, I do actually think Lupe is a better lyricist, but I don't think it's such a massive gap as some people make it out to be.

Kanye can DEFINITELY spit...but like...if I were to take a random verse from Lupe, then a random verse from Kanye...

Then I'd VERY likely be more disappointed in one of them than the other.

And creatively? I think Lupe is right up there with Kanye. I'm listening to Food and Liquor as I type this (Thanks by the way ), and I must say...he's all over the place. He's extremely versatile as far as his content goes.

If he put more emotion...or at least PRETENDED to put more emotion into his lyrics, then it'd go a long way. Maybe N9NE would like him more?

He has a very...Ben Stein-ish way about him. I could never listen to him as long as I could listen to like...someone with more emotion.

some of the tracks on The Cool was telling a story...but i didn't see the whole album as being a story.

Yeah, I'm lost on how he considers it a story in and of itself.

Also, I think Late Registration > College Dropout, personally.

Really? I dunno, College Dropout is borderline classic to me. Late Reg is very hit/miss to me from track to track.

 

[KrazyGlue]

some of the tracks on The Cool was telling a story...but i didn't see the whole album as being a story.

Also, I think Late Registration > College Dropout, personally.

Agreed on all points.

 

[IAmBlu3]

Really? I dunno, College Dropout is borderline classic to me. Late Reg is very hit/miss to me from track to track.

borderline....wait, you don't think it's a classic?


also, the only track i might skip on LR is Drive slow but i don't think any of the tracks are bad...or at least as annoying as Drunk and Hot Girls. which ones might you be referring to?

^^krazy knows wassup. thought i was the only one that liked LR more than CD.
We Major instrumental >>

 

[Matador]

borderline....wait, you don't think it's a classic?

I go back and forth with this one a lot. In context with when it came out and what was out at the time, then yeah, definitely. Ground-breaking, new, developed sound that has yet to be explored by any other artist. Well put together...all that good stuff.

On the other hand, I sit it up there with all of the other albums that I consider classic...and it doesn't fit. Reasonable Doubt/Illmatic, of course. Trap Muzik, 36 chambers, MMLP, Doggystyle...

I dunno how it sits next to them. Just know that I HAVE had it amongst those albums before in my book.

also, the only track i might skip on LR is Drive slow but i don't think any of the tracks are bad...or at least as annoying as Drunk and Hot Girls. which ones might you be referring to?

Wellllll, listening to THIS album since your last post and I must say...

not feeling Drive Slow, as you said.

Celebration is cool, but my mind isn't very blown. Fits well with the album, I guess.

My Way Home is meh.

I dunno, maybe I should give it an honest shot? It's just that College Dropout GRABBED me. Not this album. It lost me after Gold Digger and got me back after around like...Addiction, Hey Mama, and Gone. Like I said, just really hit/miss for me. Those tracks are amazing to me, and others are not so much.

Plus, wtf, Bring Me Down has one verse.

 

[KrazyGlue]

I think Kanye's albums are all (or will be) classic except for 808s and maybe Graduation. But hey, I'm a stan.

 

[IAmBlu3]

Trap Muzik was mad random in that list

^^^

Agreed. well, i think CD, LR, and MBDTF are classics; Graduation doesn't have the same feel to me as the first 2.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I love Graduation a lot. I think if he cut some of those end tracks (like the songs that come after Everything I Am) it would be my favorite Ye album

 

[Matador]

Trap Muzik isn't just an "IMO" classic tho. A lot of people put it up there amongst the other greats.

It's an amazing album. Much better than the preceding and following albums.

I can't speak on MBDTF since I haven't heard it (probably though, based on what I've been hearing about it), but I couldn't put LR up there. CD yeah, maybe. Graduation, **** no.

808s is good imo, but yeah, not a conventional rap album.

Good news though, I'm giving LR another shot. Gonna dissect it and whatnot. Play it with my Beats and see if it moves me. That'd greatly influence my opinion on Kanye/Lupe.

In the spirit of Chicago rapper togetherness, I invite you to vibe with me over:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xz8FXgLpI4

 

[KrazyGlue]

808s is barely a rap album, it's more pop/electronic honestly.

Agreed with Luigitoilet on Graduation except it still wouldn't quite be my favorite even if it cut a few tracks (but it would be a lot better).

 

[Matador]

It was okay to me. I love Flashing Lights.

That's pretty much it though, lol. Liked Stronger too before I became kinda oversaturated by it.

 

[IAmBlu3]

well, for me at least, there are 2 kinds of classics: game changing albums and 5/5 albums.

i mean LR didn't necessarily have the same impact of CD, but i still think it was a better album.

 

[KrazyGlue]

It was okay to me. I love Flashing Lights.

That's pretty much it though, lol. Liked Stronger too before I became kinda oversaturated by it.

My favorites I guess are Good Life, Flashing Lights, Good Morning, Homecoming, and Champion. But I pretty much like 8 or 9 of the 13 songs, which is really high for me. Usually I only like a few songs on any given album.

well, for me at least, there are 2 kinds of classics: game changing albums and 5/5 albums.

i mean LR didn't necessarily have the same impact of CD, but i still think it was a better album.

Agreed.

 

[Matador]

Oh yeah, Good Morning and Good Life are amazing too.

I'm starting to think I'm a hater...

 

[KrazyGlue]

Nah, you just didn't remember them off the top of your head, that's all.

 

[T3h Albino]

Alright let me just throw out my input cause......I want to =P

There honestly isn't much a can say that hasn't already been said.
I think debating MC's in general is silly (especially 2 of such high caliber), because in the end there's no definite way to determine who's better.
I suppose I will state my opinion though.
As far as lyrics go I'd say lupe edges Ye out slightly.
With tracks like The "Say Something" freestyle, Twilight Zone, and Carrera Lu, where raw lyrical ability is shown. It's not a complete blowout, however; the edge is apparent.

However artistically I believe Kanye is a good few steps ahead of that man Wasalu. Listening to a Kanye album for the first time just feels like a breathe of fresh air. It also has the Lays effect "You can't just take one". You can't just listen to a few tracks off a Kanye album, once you start listening it pulls you all the way through. His albums mesh better together than any other MC rapping today, and whether that is to be credited to the fact that he makes his own beats, or the fact that he may just be a genius doesn't matter.

That being said you can be the illest rapper in the world, best multis, best metaphors, and best wordlplay, but god damnit if you can't put together a cohesive album, that makes a bond with the listener, to the point where they can't listen to just one track....You'll forever be a step under Ye. And that's not even to say Lupe couldn't, but he hasn't yet. Food and Liquor was amazing (one of my favorite albums), but I don't see it over Late Registration or The College Dropout.

I mean it's cool that "The Cool" was an entire metaphor (literally the whole album was telling a story), but some of the parts were simply boring and didn't make much sense.
So as far as story telling tracks go
Kanye has gems such as: Roses, Blame Game, Spaceships, and Hell of a Life
However Lupe heavily focsues on story telling so again I'd say he edges out Ye here with gems suchs as
The Cool, Kick Push, Kick Push II, He Say She Say, and Hip-Hop Saved My Life.
And as far as Diamonds go Kanye was trying to present a controversial issue to a greater population and thus likely dumbed down his lyrics accordingly, while lupe made Conflict Diamonds before he had any notable recognition and probably could've given a **** about who heard what he was saying at the time. (one song is on a critically acclaimed album, the other on a mixtape).

As far as albums between the two go, I see it as.
Late Registration > The College Dropout/Food and Liquor > My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy > The Cool > Graduation

To be honest I was typing this on and off for about 30 minutes, and I don't even really remember what my points were anymore lol. But I think I hit some of them, but basically just let the albums do the talking. MBDTF vs Lazers? Sure, I'm heavily anticipating Lupe's next piece of work.
As far as this debate goes though? Both artist are amazing, and have their pros and cons, so just listen to who you want.

 

[soap]

I can feel emotion in alot of lupe tracks... Hurt me soul, the cool, The instrumental, emperor's soundtrack (off the top)

I think Joe puts a lil TOO much emotion in some of his tracks...jus sayin lol

 

[MBlaze]

I agree, last few tracks after Everything I am on Graduation replaced and it would have been sooooo much better but it's great.

On late registration I'd skip crack music instead of drive slow...

Idk why people say Trap Muzik was a classic.... I was only feelin a few tracks on that but they were damn void but with the same caliber as those others albums listed....? Idk as much as I like T.I.

And wow... I guess I'm the only one that felt that College Dropout was better than Late Registration...

Food and Liquor over all those albums IMO tho...

 

[T3h Albino]

Skip one track on late registration? It'd have to be My Way Home or Crack Music, which are coincidentally right next to each other lol.

I like all the emotion Joe puts into his tracks, I think it's what makes him so relatable=]

 

[MBlaze]

Addiction is also a WTF to me... Same shut said over and over lol strangely I wouldn't skip it.

Listening to Late Registration again to see if I missed something as to why this would be better than College Dropout.

And yes, emotion with Joe is dope.

Emotion makes Bring Me Down and Roses mad dope.

Lmao Drive Slow is dope

"My cars like the movie, my cars like the crib, I got more TV's in here than where I live

And that don't make no sense, but baby I'm the ****, and everything I flip you know it's somethin serious" xD

 

[KrazyGlue]

I agree, last few tracks after Everything I am on Graduation replaced and it would have been sooooo much better but it's great.

Agreed, EXCEPT that Homecoming is after Everything I Am, and Homecoming is a really good song. But other than that I agree.


As far as my favorite Kanye album goes, I'd go with MBDTF because I only skip one song (So Appalled) and I even don't skip that one sometimes. And it also has AMAZING tracks like Runaway.

My favorites:
MBDTF > Late Registration > Graduation > College Dropout >>>>>>>>> 808s

Best:
MBDTF = Late Registration > College Dropout > Graduation >>>>>>>>> 808s

 

[MBlaze]

Granted about Homecoming.

Okay **** what I said before, skip my way home instead lol, crack music ***** that song.

And for me right now it's..

College Dropout > MBDTF > Late Registration > Graduation > 808s

 

[Matador]

Granted about Homecoming.

Okay **** what I said before, skip my way home instead lol, crack music ***** that song.

And for me right now it's..

College Dropout > MBDTF > Late Registration > Graduation > 808s

Same line-up for me, prolly.

What tracks didn't u like on Trap Muzik?

How'd Joe enter the discussion, btw? Lol

 

[MBlaze]

Same line-up for me, prolly.

What tracks didn't u like on Trap Muzik?

How'd Joe enter the discussion, btw? Lol

Someone mentioned his emotion before lol.

Mainly, Trap Muzik just didn't interest me rather than not liking songs on it. Though I love Doin My Job, Lets Get Away and Long Live the Game.

God DAMN @ Kanye on Diamonds, I slept on this album a bit but I still think it's under or = to MBDTF.