Yoshi v. Diddy Kong

[CelestialMarauder~]

Fun fact the last hit of Upsmash doesn't knock you out of double jump until around 93% and until about 170% or something you can double jump directly after getting hit by the 1st or 2nd hit of upsmash. (playing in training mode) Not even sure if diddy would even have a need to upsmash but eh

 

[Poltergust]

What about dash attack?

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Its Probably about the same but its hard to test with 1 hand

 

[YOSHssb]

Real men use their feet!

 

[Judo777]

Yoshi has the tools to combat diddy. Funny thing about diddy, is playing diddy isnt brawl its banana brawl which is a completely different game the tier list is all rearranged in banana brawl. Diddys not the best at it, diddy players just play banana brawl more than u do. That just my opinion but i dont think im wrong.

Yoshi has a few things that diddys dont like. 1 is the ability to stay in the air for a long period of time (like MK and Peach). 2 is ability to win a stand off at long ranges (like Snake and Falco). 3. is weight and survivability which yoshi has tons of. Seriously i think yoshi lives like the 4th longest of any char in the game behind DK, Snake, and D3.

Yoshis airgrab is really nice from what ive seen cause diddy's like being safe in their shield and now their not. But most importantly i gotta say stay in the air and weave in and out as best u can throwing in and using the great range of ur air grab. Lastly its important to persevere while playing diddys cause diddy is real frustrating and not to give up cause Yoshi is SOOOOO much bigger than diddy. Unless diddy has a stock lead or percent over 90ish ur never down cause u live for freaking forever.

 

[Poltergust]

Yoshi's the 8th heaviest in the game, tied with Wario. Bowser, DK, Snake, King Dedede, Charizard, Ganondorf, and Samus are heavier than him (although he tends to survive longer than Ganondorf and Samus).

 

[YOSHssb]

Isn't there a difference between vertical weight and horizontal weight? Like... Captain Falcon for example dies much faster off the side than he does the top in my experience, or am I just crazy...

 

[Poltergust]

Weight affects both horizontal and vertical knockback. Fall speed (and fast-fall speed) affects only vertical knockback.

Still, even with a good fast-fall speed some characters still die ridiculously early off the top (Fox) and a slow fast-fall speed hinders the weight advantages of heavier characters (Samus). Yoshi, thankfully, is only slightly floaty, so his fall-speed doesn't hinder his survivability whatsoever (it actually helps with recovery and stuff).

 

[YOSHssb]

Interesting. Can you DI a banana hit so that you slide even farther away? And does anyone know how long we have to input a regular get up (no attack) after being tripped by one?

 

[Z'zgashi]

Nope, you cant DI tripping as it doesn't give hitstun. You can only DI during the time you're in hitstun and bananas just give the tripping animation instead.

 

[Sharky]

you can sdi the banana hit itself though iirc

 

[Yikarur]

no

10nohitlag

 

[~Firefly~]

Even if you get hit in mid-air?

 

[Yikarur]

it has hitlag in air.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Here's what airborne says:

Diddy Kong is like Luigi Jr. with with bananas; he has good aerials for racking damage, throws to put you in a bad position so that he may take great advantage of it, and a variety of methods of recovery so that he can mix it up. Without bananas, Diddy is not a very strong character. That's what this MU is about; we need to treat this MU like the Ice Climbers and cut Diddy Kong off from his best quality, which would be his bananas. Luckily, Yoshi has options to do such a thing, but also like the ICs, we must do it very carefully.

In the beginning of the match, Diddy will start out 75-80% of the MU doing a full-hop back and plucking out a banana; the remaining % consists of him just pressing down-b immediately. Yoshi wants to take advantage of this time to just throw an egg straight at Diddy, or rather, try to throw it so that it will hit him during either option. This is just so that we can startle him and allow a free advancement towards getting in on him.

Although I already said Diddy Kong is like Luigi Jr. with bananas, Yoshi is like Luigi as well; a great jab, great aerials, throws that can put opponents in the right position in order to cut off their options and take advantage of the position, and lastly, has a great tactic against Diddy Kong. In the Luigi v. Diddy Kong MU, Luigi can use a tactic to deal with Diddy Kong in one of the best ways possible:
"Get in between Diddy and his bananas and say, 'Do something!'"

That's what we're going to do, and like I said what Yoshi has what Luigi doesn't in my summary of the Marth MU, we have the aerial mobility and overall maneuverability to get in and sever Diddy's metaphorical arteries, the key to how Diddy works.

I have noticed that people are talking about how the CG isn't as useful in this MU, due to the threat of tripping. That is not the point of getting a grab on Diddy Kong; if a banana is in front of you as you grab Diddy, go for a back-throw because that is exactly the position that you want to attain in this MU. Sending him away from his bananas as you advance on taking advantage of them forces him to either fight you head on without bananas, which is something that I see in our advantage; or if you choose to throw the bananas away offstage, forces him to repluck the bananas, leaving him VERY open.

When you glance towards mid-high level Diddys, they are often too focused on replacing their peels that they will leave themselves open for free damage when they are caught in the ending lag. Now as you scale towards the top-level players, they will not pluck until you are on the complete other side of the stage, or are even offstage. This is a time when Diddy has gained the advantage of the match, so you do not want to be caught in mid range when his ending lag is over.

I'll return to comparing Diddy Kong to Ice Climbers, or even Marth, in that Diddy's strongest asset will force you to reset if you can manage to escape, like breaking out of ICs grabs or getting hit by Marth in general. In order to reset, I recommend just running away outside of Diddy's item toss range. If you try to fight back after every throw, aerial, etc., following from a trip, YOU WILL GET F*CKED UPPPPPPP.

 

[YOSHssb]

ok, so if we get hit with a banana while on the ground, we will go the same distance every time regardless of what we do. So how long does Diddy have to punish us on the ground before we can get up? (either by throwing another banana or grabbing or smashing or anything really)?

Interesting summary. This MU might not be as bad as I thought. I still think it's Diddy's favor but maybe 55:45.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Even if you get hit in mid-air?

Doesn't matter midair cause you wont trip

 

[Judo777]

Weight affects both horizontal and vertical knockback. Fall speed (and fast-fall speed) affects only vertical knockback.

Still, even with a good fast-fall speed some characters still die ridiculously early off the top (Fox) and a slow fast-fall speed hinders the weight advantages of heavier characters (Samus). Yoshi, thankfully, is only slightly floaty, so his fall-speed doesn't hinder his survivability whatsoever (it actually helps with recovery and stuff).

He's 8th in weight however when u combine his airspeed and quick aerial attack speed comboed with his recovery and ability to egg roll brake i think my statement still stand at 4th behind DK, Snake, and D3 in overall survivability.

 

[Yikarur]

egg roll brake is almost useless D:

 

[YOSHssb]

yeah... egg roll braking is not that great =P But I can agree with Judo. Yoshi can survive quite a while against Diddy.

 

[Airborne]

egg roll brake is almost useless D:

yeah... egg roll braking is not that great =P But I can agree with Judo. Yoshi can survive quite a while against Diddy.

Might as well try it if you're gonna die anyways! step up yo :gameboy:

 

[Delta-cod]

egg roll brake is almost useless D:

yeah... egg roll braking is not that great =P But I can agree with Judo. Yoshi can survive quite a while against Diddy.

It's not useless. I survived an Egg Roll Brake at Apex. I'm that pro.

 

[Yikarur]

on which stage? o.o

 

[Poltergust]

It's not useless. I survived an Egg Roll Brake at Apex. I'm that pro.

I want vids.

nao

 

[Delta-cod]

on which stage? o.o

Lylat.

I want vids.

nao

Saved the replay, nobody put it up.

Silent and Sharky should be able to testify for that, though.

 

[Silent Beast]

Silent and Sharky should be able to testify for that, though.

I hadn't gotten to the venue yet that day. Sharky's your only witness.

 

[Delta-cod]

Are you sure? It was my second pool.

 

[Silent Beast]

Oh, I thought it was the third day. Either way, I was out of the venue for a little bit the second day, and I think I saw only two of your sets in your second pool (kadaj and someone else).

 

[Delta-cod]

It happened against Kadaj, IIRC. Or it was Smurf. I can't remember. (Hi namesearching).

BACK TO DIDDY KONG THOUGH.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Whats the match up if diddy didn't have bananas?

 

[Z'zgashi]

Probably about the same. Or a little easier. Bananas dont effect yoshi as much as they do most characters. Id say without out them it's 55:45 Diddy's adv.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Well what tools does diddy have that make it 55:45 without nanners?

 

[Z'zgashi]

Bair and fair have really good range (especially bair, it's surprising sometimes), he's got a great dash attack, really fast tilts, fast smashes (dsmash also has decent range), if he catches us in shield he has ******** shield pressure, and he does have a semi decent projectile. Also he can even use monkey flip to attack every once in a while, and like yoshi and wario, it can act as an air grab which is very helpful. (not to mention he can monkey flip us out of our super armor then jump off us for a spike). Thinking more about it though, it seems more even. In fact, in my eyes, pretty insanely even.

 

[Sharky]

It happened against Kadaj, IIRC. Or it was Smurf. I can't remember. (Hi namesearching).

BACK TO DIDDY KONG THOUGH.

I...don't think it was against kadaj at least...I know you wall-teched at the end, but I don't recall an egg brake. Must've been smurf.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Bair and fair have really good range (especially bair, it's surprising sometimes), he's got a great dash attack, really fast tilts, fast smashes (dsmash also has decent range), if he catches us in shield he has ******** shield pressure, and he does have a semi decent projectile. Also he can even use monkey flip to attack every once in a while, and like yoshi and wario, it can act as an air grab which is very helpful. (not to mention he can monkey flip us out of our super armor then jump off us for a spike). Thinking more about it though, it seems more even. In fact, in my eyes, pretty insanely even.

Peanut gun is a decent projectile? But without the nanners we get smashed alot less? and i just see us airdodging when he attemps a monkey flip. And we can gimp him pretty well

 

[Deleted member]

LOooooool
Its 65:35 yoshi without bananas.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Lol.. I Gimp most diddy's so badly they start running almost the whole match with a Forward B/DownB for maybe 4 minutes before they finally die around 47%-110%.
As for when they aren't running, nanners cannot beat the eggs, no matter how hard they try. Sometimes when I face Diddy's in SA they start flinging peanuts at me, when that doesn't work then they proceed with Sh**.
Anyways Diddy still beats Yoshi and even if I Gimp a stock or two off of them they still come back and **** my yoshi around the last few minutes of the round. Will submit Ratio in MU discussion when I think it over a bit more.

 

[Airborne]

Whats the match up if diddy didn't have bananas?

Diddy blows without bananas. It's Luigi without the insane revenge hitting and crazy kill power.

 

[Judo777]

Lol.. I Gimp most diddy's so badly they start running almost the whole match with a Forward B/DownB for maybe 4 minutes before they finally die around 47%-110%.
As for when they aren't running, nanners cannot beat the eggs, no matter how hard they try. Sometimes when I face Diddy's in SA they start flinging peanuts at me, when that doesn't work then they proceed with Sh**.
Anyways Diddy still beats Yoshi and even if I Gimp a stock or two off of them they still come back and **** my yoshi around the last few minutes of the round. Will submit Ratio in MU discussion when I think it over a bit more.

Ofc bananas dont beat eggs. Protein > Potassium.

But yea diddy kong without bananas isn't even close to even against pretty much everyone in the game (maybe lower tiers but i honestly cant see diddy beating a mario without bananas). Diddy having bananas is what most of diddys options come from. As airborne said diddy without bananas is a slower moveset, no kill power version of luigi that has a decent run speed and traction. Diddy has like 2 great moves. A few good moves then 1 freaking incredible move (down b anyone?)

 

[Yikarur]

thoose are testimonials of people who just know Banana Diddy lol