Yoshi v. Ike

[Metatitan]

Thats from just the first page. Im not trolling, just making observatsions LOL

Eh it kinda is trolling, but it is true, our boards need A LOT of work. As for the killing thing, the majority of ike's moves are kill moves. My opinion is just camp the hell out of him

 

[Deleted member]

lol yoshi boards are terrible, just dont blindly run into his BS kill moves and youre set

Wuuttttt.
I mean, i know they are terrible, but the things you quoted are the not terrible parts.
If you think ike doesnt have any options or something gtfo.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The fact that it's Wi-Fi has no bearing on what happened. He had to recover, and he had to use his double-jump to do so since I believe he had Tap Jump on (honestly, every character has Tap Jump on besides us...).

Link players generally don't have Tap Jump on so they can do their pseudo glide toss.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Some Ikes have jump tap off, but I believe that most have it on so they can aether while still in the water on Pirate Ship/Delfino.

As for Ike's kill moves......how about I just list things that aren't kill moves, it's a lot quicker.

Uthrow
Bthrow
Fthrow

....

Thats about it. >_> Dthrow does kill Yoshi at like, 220% on stages like FD, but it could kill a lot sooner at stages with low ceilings like Halbred, particularly if standing on the platform. Nair, Counter and QD also kill but aren't very likely to. Counter and QD are rarely used, Nair....we just have better killing options. Nair is more for comboing into jab, quick damage thanks to ACing, stuff like that.


BTW, Ike does worse over wifi then in real life. His whole game is based on spacing and timing, wifi kinda destroys all of that due to lag, and only gives us the occasional kill that should of been blocked in exchange.

 

[Poltergust]

Unfortunately, ike gets his DJ back when u egg his aether. I tested.

Wait... what? How exactly does that happen? Did the Ike already double-jump when you egged his Aether? o_O

Because if that's true, why didn't Sakurai give Yoshi his double-jump back if hit while recovering. Or for any other character? This makes no sense...

 

[Metatitan]

Im pretty sure you have to grab release them after double jump to take it away, if you just hit them they will get it back.

 

[Kimchi]

Unfortunately, ike gets his DJ back when u egg his aether. I tested.
Also, if he does it low, at most percents the eggs wont knock him high enough to be grabbed, or too high.

Its nice but doesnt kill.

By request of Poltergust, I tested to see if egging Ike out of Aether would allow him to get back his DJ. When Ike DJs and then Aethers and Yoshi eggs hit out of it, he does NOT get back his DJ back. However, even when Ike does not DJ Aether, he does NOT "get back" his DJ. He merely retains his second jump because he didn't use it.

 

[Delta-cod]

I've been trying out the gimping trick and I believe that you NEED to edgehog Ike. Any time I don't he's able to make it back, but barely.

 

[Teh Future]

Wuuttttt.
I mean, i know they are terrible, but the things you quoted are the not terrible parts.
If you think ike doesnt have any options or something gtfo.

uhhh no, Ikes fair isnt that good, just throw an egg at that ****. Basically any time ike is in the air you want to be on the ground throwing eggs at him or grabbing him when hes landing.

Saying anytime you grab Ike out of his second jump hes dead is ********. No explanation needed.

Saying any characters matchup against Ike is almost unwinnable is ********.

You guys need to stop pretending like Yoshi is a bad character and actually get good instead of making low tier johns.

 

[bigman40]

uhhh no, Ikes fair isnt that good, just throw an egg at that ****. Basically any time ike is in the air you want to be on the ground throwing eggs at him or grabbing him when hes landing.

Saying anytime you grab Ike out of his second jump hes dead is ********. No explanation needed.

Saying any characters matchup against Ike is almost unwinnable is ********.

You guys need to stop pretending like Yoshi is a bad character and actually get good instead of making low tier johns.

God dayum. Someone used to sense on the Yoshi boards? I'm shocked as ****.

 

[Metatitan]

uhhh no, Ikes fair isnt that good, just throw an egg at that ****. Basically any time ike is in the air you want to be on the ground throwing eggs at him or grabbing him when hes landing.

Saying anytime you grab Ike out of his second jump hes dead is ********. No explanation needed.

Saying any characters matchup against Ike is almost unwinnable is ********.

You guys need to stop pretending like Yoshi is a bad character and actually get good instead of making low tier johns.

If I didn't already have a sig I would quote that last sentence as a sig because it's just too **** funny.

 

[Deleted member]

uhhh no, Ikes fair isnt that good, just throw an egg at that ****. Basically any time ike is in the air you want to be on the ground throwing eggs at him or grabbing him when hes landing.

Saying anytime you grab Ike out of his second jump hes dead is ********. No explanation needed.

Saying any characters matchup against Ike is almost unwinnable is ********.

You guys need to stop pretending like Yoshi is a bad character and actually get good instead of making low tier johns.

A few things:
You cant egg if they are right near you. Ikes fair is very good, some characters deal with it better than others, yoshi doesnt deal with it well. Ike can DJ and if u throw an egg he airdodges and double jabs to bthrow to dash attack (true combo btw) for around 35%.
The grab thing yes.
Shiri wasnt saying its ACTUALLY almost unwinnable. Just that it makes things more difficult than they have to be.

Wtf is that last statement. Stop making low tier johns? We are discussing a matchup, I have TOURNAMENT ike experience, and ive beaten all the ikes ive played, but the matchup is stil slightly in ikes favor imo.

Get good? Wtf are you talking about. I could probably beat your entire state and im not good XD

 

[Poltergust]

uhhh no, Ikes fair isnt that good, just throw an egg at that ****. Basically any time ike is in the air you want to be on the ground throwing eggs at him or grabbing him when hes landing.

Saying anytime you grab Ike out of his second jump hes dead is ********. No explanation needed.

For one thing, Ike's f-air goes throw the eggs. It has THAT much range (it is the largest-ranged aerial, after all. If Mr. Game & Watch's b-air goes through eggs, so does Ike's f-air).

And Ike really is dead if you grab him out of his double-jump at the edge. He CAN'T recover back if you edge-hog (Delta is right in saying that you need to edge-hog).

Any comments on what Kimchi said? I don't get the inconsistency between what Sockz tested and what Kimchi tested. What's going on? :veryconfu

 

[Delta-cod]

I think that what happened to Sockz was that Ike may have gotten onto the stage JUST before the egg hit. I could be wrong, though. As far as I've seen, no character gets their double jump back after they use it without grabbing the ledge or touching the ground.

 

[bigman40]

See man. The problem you guys have is that you ain't got no funk, swagger, or pimpin in ya style. Yall punks need to step up man

 

[Delta-cod]

See man. The problem you guys have is that you ain't got no funk, swagger, or pimpin in ya style. Yall punks need to step up man

I don't speak gangster, can someone translate it for me? =[

 

[Poltergust]

I don't speak gangster, can someone translate it for me? =[

Basically, we're lacking motivation. At least most of us are (I'm one of the few optimistic Yoshis here ).

We need to gain more confidence in Yoshi's abilities and our abilities as players.

 

[Metatitan]

Basically, we're lacking motivation. At least most of us are (I'm one of the few optimistic Yoshis here ).

We need to gain more confidence in Yoshi's abilities and our abilities as players.

When you live in a good region some of your optimism begins to fade away. You'll still try, you'll just know deep down that yoshi won't be placing THAT high.

 

[bigman40]

Basically, we're lacking motivation. At least most of us are (I'm one of the few optimistic Yoshis here ).

We need to gain more confidence in Yoshi's abilities and our abilities as players.

Pretty much And to Detla: I can be much more gangster than that lol

When you live in a good region some of your optimism begins to fade away. You'll still try, you'll just know deep down that yoshi won't be placing THAT high.

Man den yo *** need to do sumthin bout it instead of *****in bout it here folk. Nobody wanna hear dat bull****. So step up yo motha ****in swagger fo you start dat **** round here.

 

[Metatitan]

Pretty much And to Detla: I can be much more gangster than that lol



Man den yo *** need to do sumthin bout it instead of *****in bout it here folk. Nobody wanna hear dat bull****. So step up yo motha ****in swagger fo you start dat **** round here.

Come to soCal and then talk

 

[bigman40]

Come to soCal and then talk

I will if I ever plan a trip there. At any rate, I still don't wanna hear bull**** since YOU think you can't place. you got all those secondaries. It's time to put them to some ****ing use if you can't go all Yoshi.

Don't hide behind **** and still talk ****. That's being a ***** there.

 

[Chaco]

My region doesn't exist.

 

[Metatitan]

My region doesn't exist.

What's a tennessee?

 

[Airborne]

What's a tennessee?

i think it's one of those things that is a tunnel but it's under the sea... and they don't wear shoes. =P

 

[Nidtendofreak]

About the whole "if you grab Ike after his second jump and AR he can't recover thing.": We can do the same thing to you. >_> Not as likely, but it can happen. It's honestly not that special, a lot of characters are like that.

 

[Poltergust]

It is a special case with Ike, though. Every other character (besides Kirby, but he has multiple jumps so it doesn't matter) can sweet-spot the ledge without going over it. Ike's Aether forces him to be vulnerable for a little while before he grabs the ledge, even if he is at the lowest possible point.

Also, there are two things wrong with grab-releasing Yoshi out of his double-jump over the ledge:

1. Unlike Ike, Yoshi can air-dodge at any time during his double-jump, which would obviously go past the grab.
2. Also unlike Ike, if you do manage to grab him, Yoshi has the mobility to make it back over the edge with just his up-B. It makes him vulnerable, but it's definitely not a garaunteed death.

You know, even with this gimping technique I still think that match-up is neutral. Maybe a tiny bit in Yoshi's favor but still neutral. Ike's range is just too good...

 

[Shiri]

I will have to see some (please excuse my French) crazy f*cking sh*t to call this matchup for Yoshi.

Yoshi can camp all day, but in the end, you have to get close to finish someone off, even if it's just a stock. Playing mid-range with grabs only goes so far and Ike is like Melee Peach. Hand-to-hand is pretty much unmatched and he is aerially very scary. It just seems to me to be far too difficult to hunt for a melee-range KO move when one mistake lands you a sword smack in your face and it doesn't help that Ike can KO about thirteen (real number) different ways at any one point in time.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ike can AD anytime during his second jump as well. >_> Like every character in the game.....it's just that his jumps are the second worse in the game vertically.

And if Yoshi didn't have his DJ, I don't think he would be able to get back with just eggs from that far out if we edgehogged. You don't have a tether that grabs the edge after all. Seeing as you get your movement back when on level with the stage horizontal wise, but farther out, and only the first egg propels you upwards a lot and the rest are mainly stalls.....

A lot of characters would be too far out if they AR on the ledge without their second jump. Marth would be barely able to make it, and would get edgehogged every time. I don't think Bowser would have enough momentum to make it back. Link would be dead with no effort. Ganondorf probably dead. The spacies probably dead with and edgehog, seeing as they would have to aim for the ledge, and their AR on the ledge makes them fly downwards at a 45 degree angle or so instead of straight across, etc.

 

[.Marik]

Allright, since people like to ***** and complain about my personal opinions, I did some testing with some of my friends, one who has a decent Ike. Just because I don't have the same idea of the matchup ratio doesn't mean I'm wrong lol.

Okay... where do I start?

Overall, Ike is just a really bad character. He has Jabs and a few moves to follow up, and that FSmash mindgame when we've tripped from his Dash Attack. Now before you people continue this pointless talk of situational semantics, (not directed at everyone here) even though Metatitan is one little pessimist and disagrees with virtually everyone ever on SmashBoards, Ike is very, very easy to bait. Maybe not predictable, but a good Yoshi will most likely always have the advantage. 55:45, I'm thinking.

Ike can't combo, first off. He's easily spiked, Yoshi's aerials and tilts are too good. Pivot Grabbing is too. I normally wouldn't risk an actual running Grab, that's FSmash bait right there. No matter what anyone thinks, baiting and keeping your distance and playing smart and defensive, will always guarantee a win against an average to pretty good Ike. Professional Ikes, I don't know. Ike can mix stuff up with sudden aerials, and Jabs/Grabs.

Yes, Ike is so very powerful. We get launched and KO'd as low as 39-52%, when we're at the edge of a stage. But, as I said before, we have to lure and bait Ike through eggs, tilts, and aerials. I wouldn't fight an Ike up close, and get aggressive with him, but the cooldown lag on his moves make him easily exploitable and he gets punished for it.

I'll write more later, perhaps.

 

[Deleted member]

Ike is better than yoshi.
Dont just randomly blurt out **** about the character plzz
/hypocrit

 

[.Marik]

ITT: People trying to change my opinion yet nobody proving me otherwise.

 

[Deleted member]

Allright, since people like to ***** and complain about my personal opinions, I did some testing with some of my friends, one who has a decent Ike. Just because I don't have the same idea of the matchup ratio doesn't mean I'm wrong lol.
He probably sucks Jk Jk lets see how you do.
Okay... where do I start?

Overall, Ike is just a really bad character. He has Jabs and a few moves to follow up, and that FSmash mindgame when we've tripped from his Dash Attack. Now before you people continue this pointless talk of situational semantics, (not directed at everyone here) even though Metatitan is one little pessimist and disagrees with virtually everyone ever on SmashBoards, Ike is very, very easy to bait. Maybe not predictable, but a good Yoshi will most likely always have the advantage. 55:45, I'm thinking.
K, if u think fsmash is one of his best tools, you dont know anything. Secondly, ike can zone with fair and he cant get punished. His spotdodge is as good as ours, he can easily get 30% off a jab. If you nair, maybe thatll work once, if he knows its coming he can shield grab, then bthrow to dash attack. Ike is indeed a little bit easy to see coming as a character(he doenst have that many options), but then again, so is Game and watch, with ike having an aerial that gives us more trouble than G&Ws bair does (we can shield grab bair, and DI it up to punish, ikes is impossible). How will yoshi have the advantage on stage ever i ask, except when ike is in the air, but for that to happen, we have to break his **** defensive wall.
Ike can't combo, first off. He's easily spiked, Yoshi's aerials and tilts are too good. Pivot Grabbing is too. I normally wouldn't risk an actual running Grab, that's FSmash bait right there. No matter what anyone thinks, baiting and keeping your distance and playing smart and defensive, will always guarantee a win against an average to pretty good Ike. Professional Ikes, I don't know. Ike can mix stuff up with sudden aerials, and Jabs/Grabs.
He can bait airdodges just like anyone else, and punishes his airdodge baits veery hard, killing around 80 with up air (thats aguess btw). Yoshies aerials, tilts, and eggs all get beat by ftilt, so ETS is the best way around it, but again, it becomes a game of baits, as ike can predict an ETS and punish it. Ike punishes harder than yoshi, and generally he has the advantage on stage because of his massive fair and superior defensive options. Pivot grabs are less effective unless he is misspaced in the air. We are talking high level matchups, i dont care how to beat scrub ikes
Yes, Ike is so very powerful. We get launched and KO'd as low as 39-52%, when we're at the edge of a stage. But, as I said before, we have to lure and bait Ike through eggs, tilts, and aerials. I wouldn't fight an Ike up close, and get aggressive with him, but the cooldown lag on his moves make him easily exploitable and he gets punished for it.
No. That is all
I'll write more later, perhaps.

Theres your argument, i hope i didnt come off as rude, but you dont seem like you have experience with the matchup/know how ike rolls

 

[Poltergust]

Sockz! Don't leave us again!

...And can you explain the inconsistency between what you tested and what Kimchi tested? I'd like to hear you thoughts...

 

[Metatitan]

Stocky isn't leaving the yoshi boards lol

 

[Chaco]

Spacing in this will either make the match, or break it. Being aggressive with close range attacks will get you *****. Camping from a distance works pretty well for a while. But it's not going to win, I'd focus more on getting Ike offstage and camping him. It's frustrating to be continuously thrown off the ledge.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Marik, who is this "decent" Ike you keep talking about? Because chances are he sucks, especially based on what you think of the match-up. For crying out loud, you mentioned Fsmash as if good Ikes will randomly throw it out after a dash attack. Watch videos of Kirk, San, or metroid. They are good Ikes. If they use Fsmash, it hits more often then misses because they know when to use it

And Ike combos. What part of "Jab Combos" says that he can't combo? Nair -> Jab -> Grab -> Bthrow -> Dash Attack is a combo right there, with a whooping 1 or 2 frames in which you can escape from. And I have yet to seen anyone escape a jab -> grab attempt.

BTW: You must not have read that "How to properly discuss match-ups" topic. Baiting is a HUMAN thing, not a character quality. Same with predictability. We're not talking about human qualities, but character qualities. I could argue Ike can bait well with Nair due to it's ACing, and the fact if we bait an AD, you will get hit with Uair due to the fact it outlasts ADs. The baiting part is irrelevant. The only good bits of info that I said in the last sentence is that Nair ACs and Uair outlasting ADs.

EDIT: I don't know if Sharky is considered a good Yoshi, but Kirk VS Sharky http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kcXRimxafw

Notice the last KO by Kirk.

 

[Chaco]

It's obvious Sharky didn't know how to fight an Ike considering he used only 11 eggs the entire match. Stocky uses more than that at the beginning. I'm not saying Sharky isn't good, but he missed so many opportunities to camp the living **** out of Kirk.

 

[bigman40]

Yoshinator doesn't play much due to IRL problems he's trying to get done.

 

[Chaco]

That would explain it.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I personally thought he didn't try using a lot of eggs because Kirk kept just powershielding them, but w/e, I don't main Yoshi. It was mainly to prove a) my point to Marik and b) we can also grab release you to death out of second jump. ^_^


It was the only set of videos I could find of Kirk VS a Yoshi that wasn't a year ago. I'll dig around some more. You can link to the second video in the playlist.