Your Thoughts on The Characters

[The Hooded Informant]

What do you think of the characters of Super Smash Bros. 64? Who would you place as the best and the worst of them? Give specific information as to why you think that this character and that character differ.

Like this:
I think that Pikachu, Fox and Link are really amazing characters boasting good air game, great ground game, great power, great knockback and easy KO ability. They may look like they aren't good, but they are great characters. I think Yoshi and Samus are the worst characters due to slow attacks, weak attacks, predictable attacks, easy edgeguard, easy edgehog, and easy juggle. Yet, they have some good knockback and can juggle other characters. They have to keep a distance from characters, though.

I do not plan to make any type of character ranking chart. I want to know who you like the most to play as in the upcoming poll.

 

[Yobolight]

Whats your opinion of Ness?

 

[MrMarbles]

What about luigi? clearly the best character. You may not know this but if you hit someone just right with luigi's special up-B attack it creates a baseball bat noise that owns all other characters

 

[Battlecow]

Hey dude, a better place for this might be in a less competitively oriented context. We have somewhat rigid and very, very complicated ideas on the subject here, which are pretty cool if you're interested in spending way too much time learning the game, but which also lead us to view threads like these (which we do get fairly often) as unintentional comedy.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Interesting thread, actually posted in character discussion

Personally, I main Yoshi as I like to escape combos. I find Falcon to be easy but fun.

 

[Sangoku]

I like to escape combos

Not sure if you're serious, but that's impossible. By definition.

On topic: I agree about Link, he is strong. Not sure about pikachu though. Sure his down b thunder is great for opponent above (such as kirby, before he turns into rock), but his little neutral b thunder is a bit weak. He is definitely advantaged with the distance. And MrMarbles: ever since I discovered that, I have been wondering why Mario was in the game. He's just a weaker Luigi: no powerful upb, lower jumps, less useful fireballs, etc. Even though he's great, I wouldn't call Luigi the best character as he gets comboed fairly easily.

 

[RickySSB]

Whats your opinion of Ness?

Ness is the hardest character to master on the game AND is the hardest char to make combos IMO.
Samus isn't hard as Ness.
He has stupid proyectiles, bad recovery and DJC can be very dangerous if you don't use it on the right way.
But Dair, Bair, Uair and Utilt are his best moves.
I think is so good against Pika but so bad against Samus.

IMO
IMOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[asianaussie]

I like Link because he has a sword and because ocarina of time is my favorite game ever!

 

[clubbadubba]

guys can't we ever take anything seriously?

 

[tacos]

Ness is the hardest character to master on the game AND is the hardest char to make combos IMO.
Samus isn't hard as Ness.
He has stupid proyectiles, bad recovery and DJC can be very dangerous if you don't use it on the right way.
But Dair, Bair, Uair and Utilt are his best moves.
I think is so good against Pika but so bad against Samus.

IMO
IMOOOOOOOOOOOOO

This confirms my suspicion that Ness is only good if you know how to use him.

 

[SheerMadness]

Nope Ness is the best because he has the most powerful down A attack and the strongest throw. Anyone can spam those moves and win.

 

[RickySSB]

^ That is stupid.
Especially knowing that the enemy will not always be under you.

 

[Yoshi-Fan GM]

Yoshi one of the worst characters? Well, as a Yoshi main, his recovery may be easy to gimp but it's still good. Yoshi's second jump has knockback resistance, he has got a decent edgeguarding ability and good combos. I personally find Yoshi to have an amazing potential.

I also like to play as Luigi, a lot. He is basically Mario with a powerful KO move (Super Jump Punch) that can beat floaties under 50%.

 

[RickySSB]

Yoshi is the best. After Samus, Link, Luigi and Bcow.

 

[Pooncahontas]

Luigi is obviously best; why else would the game developers make him the hardest character to get if he wasn't?
& he's got the Super Jump Punch which is the most powerful move in the game. also, his running attack creates a wall of punches which easily combos into his UpB.

 

[The Hooded Informant]

Thanks everyone with your thoughts.

Not necessarily, Pooncahontas, Luigi does not have the most powerful move. Falcon Punch and Giant Punch outdo the Super Jump Punch.
Secondly, his Dash attack cannot easily combo into his UpB.

All the characters have different potentials.

 

[Sangoku]

^True. Giant punch is one of the rare move I wouldn't be afraid to try against a character with the hammer.

 

[The Hooded Informant]

The Character Link: What do you people view on him? What do think his potential is?

 

[mixa]

Link is good. I like his pjs color and
He's potential to win big tournaments.

This thread is my exercise to expurgate sarcasm etc.

 

[Yoshi-Fan GM]

Link is very good on Hyrule since he can camp with projectiles, a tough character to approach.
But due to his awful recovery and being easy to combo, he isn't even ranked a mid tier. On Dreamland for example, he is very easy to approach and has a lot of trouble dealing with fast characters.

 

[asianaussie]

link really isn't THAT easy to approach on DL, it's not like he loses his big hitboxes or anything

 

[Yobolight]

Link has to seriously outplay his opponent to win on DL.

 

[TheMagistrate]

Thanks everyone with your thoughts.

Not necessarily, Pooncahontas, Luigi does not have the most powerful move. Falcon Punch and Giant Punch outdo the Super Jump Punch.
Secondly, his Dash attack cannot easily combo into his UpB.

All the characters have different potentials.

what about Ness UpB?

 

[The Hooded Informant]

Oh yes. Ness UpB is the most powerful, if made direct contact, in both power and knockback.

Now I want people to give me their opinion on Ness.

Also, I do think he deserves a high tier place, most likely 2nd. He does have equal air game with Pikachu, as well as powerful, fast attacks, the best dash attack in the game, great stopping ability, and great KO potential.

 

[Battlecow]

I dunno, dude, to utilize ness's potential you really have to know how to use him

 

[cmu6eh]

Oh yes. Ness UpB is the most powerful, if made direct contact, in both power and knockback.

Now I want people to give me their opinion on Ness.

Also, I do think he deserves a high tier place, most likely 2nd. He does have equal air game with Pikachu, as well as powerful, fast attacks, the best dash attack in the game, great stopping ability, and great KO potential.

Majority of people agree with you. No need to bring it up anymore.

 

[stupidgal]

Whats your opinion of Ness?

he is the best character..

 

[Tom Bombadil]

I think that this belongs here

 

[Sangoku]

Ness has the best recovery, great distance, great power and impossible to edgeguard (he's litterally a super saiyan after upb). He also has the best approaches, best ground game and a really good aerial game. His projectiles are good (neutral b for close range fight and upb against campers). And most importantly, he's the only character who can heal WITHOUT a heart or a tomato. And that is of great help against high tier characters like Fox or Luigi. I think his only bad matchup is Link, because of Link's sword and the fact there's no way to heal. Ness is also very versatile and can adapt most situations.

 

[TheMagistrate]

Oh yes. Ness UpB is the most powerful, if made direct contact, in both power and knockback.

Now I want people to give me their opinion on Ness.

Also, I do think he deserves a high tier place, most likely 2nd. He does have equal air game with Pikachu, as well as powerful, fast attacks, the best dash attack in the game, great stopping ability, and great KO potential.

unfortunately, not. his recovery is horrendous, his hitlag/hitstun is terrible. he does have nice advantages with djc uair/dair and djc bair spacing, but he is nowhere near high tier. his grabs are strong and as you said he has a solid dash attack, but he doesn't have equal air game with Pika. Typically, if youre knocked off the platform with Ness, youre most likely not making it back.

 

[Combo Blaze]

just ban jeff already pls

 

[Sangoku]

Hitlag is a property of the attacker. So if Ness's attacks don't have much hitlag, it's only to his benefit as the attacked character won't have many frames to DI. This assumption is obviously wrong and Ness doesn't have particularly low hitlag.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

I like the quick switch from satire to smash knowledge between your last posts Sangoku

 

[SheerMadness]

Since we all know Ness and Link are the best characters:

Who do you guys think would win if the the best Ness and Link were to face off?

 

[The Hooded Informant]

I think that Link is a good character, but he is in the lower 6, in my opinion. He has some bad matchups. I didn't say he was the best, nor did I say Ness is the best.

Sure, I say good stuff about them, but when it comes to terms, I know that Captain Falcon and Pikachu are quite skillful, as well as Fox being useful. Most characters should deserve some good spots, but not all deserve the best. Here is what I know as of far:

Captain Falcon has great reach, good recovery, amazing combo ability, amazing air game, good knockback, great damage capabilities, and great jumping abilities. BUT, he has heavy weight, making him easy to juggle, some of his attacks are predictable, and he has quite a large hitbox.

Pikachu is the best at most things, but he suffers from light weight, excessive need for a powerful attack and some attacks are slow and predictable.

I created this thread for the variety of characters. Now, lets speak about all the characters truthfully and respectfully, now.

 

[asianaussie]

Ok so hold on here, I kinda typed a lot but bear with me because I've played lots with my friends and I think I have some opinions to weigh in on.

You claim to have to created an open and honest thread, yet you deny others when they Ness is the best, or that Link is the best? Are they not also characters we can discuss? SheerMadness posted in a very respectful way about Ness and Link being the best in his opinion, and I think you need to respect what he says. It is the general consensus of good players in this forum that Ness and Link are top 2 (I main Link because I just feel he wins really easily against some characters like Kirby, and he has probably the best matchup against Ness and Yoshi (underrated much???), some of the other top characters). Some argue that you really need to know how to use Ness before his full potential is revealed, but I think that we have to consider full potential and nothing less when discussing characters.

Pikachu is ok but some of his moves are really bad, like his Upwards-Aerial, it doesn't do very much damage and it doesn't cause strong knockback like his Down-Aerial and Down-Smash (which I think is his most underrated move, everyone talks about Side-Smash but people sometimes forget something very basic about Down-Smash, IT HITS DOWNWARDS which I think is really strong in edgeguarding). All in all he is a solid mid-high tier character, especially in free-for-alls where his mobility with Upwards-B is unlimited and he can easily hit multiple people with both Thunderbolt and Side-Smash.

Captain Falcon is ok and I have a friend who uses him really really well, like one time he got me from 8% to 79% and off the edge and I couldn't do anything, but his signature moves Falcon Punch and Falcon Jumping Grab are really hard to land - the huge damage is really good and maybe in the hands of a robotic player with perfect reflexes and mindgames you would be able to take advantage of that crazy 25% you get from one hit, but in my extensive testing with friends I just don't see much use out of the B button except for Down-B AKA Falcon Kick, which is so fast and everyone forgets about it.

I don't like Fox, even if other people say he is really strong I think that he has a really hard time getting actual kills. When you just discuss Fox you talk about him just shooting lots of lasers and using Down-Aerial to stop anyone who runs at him. I think Sakurai balanced him really well, the combination of long-ranged power with his Laser, strong middle range game with Firing Fox (you have to predict sometimes but I think this is a really good move, the CPU sometimes suicides with it but I find that if you space it right it's a really good damaging attack), and good close-range game with his Down-Aerial and more importantly, his normal A-button jab attack, which is actually really good and follows Fox's theme of lots and lots of weak hits for good damage. In the end though I think that he is really hurt by the lack of a finishing move, his Firing Fox charge just isn't strong enough sometimes and his Side-Smash, the only one of his smash attacks with good ranged ability, just doesn't kill opponents early enough on Hyrule (where you go because his Lasers are really strong there).

SO yeah I think that the top two are Link and Ness for sure, then Yoshi and Mario (I think Yoshi might be a bit better). We should talk more about whether Yoshi or Mario is actually better.

 

[Sangoku]

I was about to like your post until you brought up Mario. Why would someone think Mario (the weaker version of Luigi) is better than Luigi is beyond me. For me it goes as: Link and Ness top 2 (not sure which one wins), then Luigi and Fox/Yoshi. Other than that, I agree with most of your post. I love Yoshi, he can be really dangerous near ledges where a tongue to egg means death, whatever the percentage of the opponent. His grab is also long ranged which has its advantages and disadvantages, his down B is really powerful, his egg throw really good for long ranged battle and his smash attacks strong. His major disadvantage is the lack of a real recovery and that he's a bit slow overall (compared to fast character like Fox or Link).

 

[B Link]

Pikachu sucks, its only good moves are thundershock and tail whip. My favorite character is Ness because (BIG SECRET ULTRA PRO ONLY TECHNIQUE) if you hit yourself with DK thunder you do at least 50 damage maybe more if your opponent has low special defense (I saw 60 damage once and it my opp had no HP after! One hit kill ftw!!!)

 

[asianaussie]

I have to disagree with Pikachu being bad, it's true we haven't seen many Pikachus be incredibly strong in recent tournament settings, but that is because nobody is using his underrated moves like Down-Smash, and sometimes people don't use his Thundershock move at all, which one of the best moves in the game in terms of forcing people to jump. As you all know, you cannot dodge roll in the air in this game like you can in Super Smash Brothers Melee, so Pikachu can set up some truly nasty mixup situations like this. In short, his potential isn't being maximised.

As for Luigi being better than Mario, I have to disagree here too. I think that Luigi's Upwards-B is indeed a powerful force to be reckoned with, but Mario has some really amazing combos, like the Mario Tornado infinite combo. I like to think of Mario as a character who can 'suck opponents in towards you' with staple moves like the aforementioned Tornado, as well as his Down-Aerial, which is similar to Fox's but slightly smaller and harder to use in prediction. Luigi however, is a character who 'knocks opponents away', and despite his overall stronger moves, he lacks the kill-combos of Mario, and has to rely on timing and spacing an Upwards-B Fire Uppercut to get his kills. This is much easier said than done, trust me. I've dodge rolled many a Fire Uppercut in my time.

 

[Sangoku]

I see what you mean about Mario. However, remember Luigi also has the aerial down kicks and I think Luigi's is more versatile due to his high jumps. All in all I don't really like that move though. It is too weak and too slow in my opinion. It is easy to shield, roll behind you and side smash your back. And concerning the tornado, I really prefer Luigi's, especially at 200% where it kills effectively. What is better, a move that rack up damages or the same move that kills? I prefer the latter.

About Pikachu, I mostly agree. Great minds think alike