Zelda's Stage Discussion #10 -- Battlefield!

[KuroganeHammer]

Depends. The platform tilts.... at its lower points, you can hit with usmash, but people usually don't stand on the low end if they're on the platform at all.

SH uair works really well, though.

Mmm... I can't help but think though that most players would sit up on the platform long enough for a Short hop U-air. Especially with Zelda's excruciatingly slow running speed. You would really be somewhat situational sometimes.

 

[KayLo!]

Mmm... I can't help but think though that most players would sit up on the platform long enough for a Short hop U-air. Especially with Zelda's excruciatingly slow running speed. You would really be somewhat situational sometimes.

Ah, I mean that it works well if they're actually on the platform. In my experience, nobody really goes up there in the first place unless they're landing from a hit or mess up an aerial approach.

Realistically, nair is probably better, but surprise uair-up-the-butt kills are so sexy.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

I don't like this stage as Zelda. The left side of the stage is almost impossible to FW ledge cancel since it dips off around the corner, while the right side is only marginally easier to do so.

Though the stage is pretty good for Din Camping, I rather not resort to such methods for Damage since Zelda's long-range defense game is rather... meh...At least the little ghosts extend the hitbox somewhat, and can extend the lingering hitboxes, but I still rather not go here for Zelda.

 

[Kataefi]

I find this stage a bit meh for me personally but I love the visual design if that's anything to go by I actually find it reeeeally easy to ledgewarp here surprisingly (not that I use it often).

Is there a timer on those rising platforms? It would be interesting to understand the mechanics behind them.

Also... what characters despise this stage MORE than Zelda?

 

[sniperworm]

I find this stage a bit meh for me personally but I love the visual design if that's anything to go by I actually find it reeeeally easy to ledgewarp here surprisingly (not that I use it often).

Is there a timer on those rising platforms? It would be interesting to understand the mechanics behind them.

Also... what characters despise this stage MORE than Zelda?

I believe the platform rises up about every 10-15 seconds. I was unable to determine a pattern for where it would appear or exactly how long it'll take it to reappear (it varies). I didn't do any extensive testing or anything though. There might be a variable amount of time that the platform is out, and then a constant respawn time, I'm not sure. If you ever need to know when it'll appear, you just need to ask Jon (Wry!!), lol.

Perhaps Ness dislikes it more? I've been killed by the fly guys or the ghost platform eating my PK Thunder more than once when I was using Ness on that stage (but note that I don't actually use Ness).

I know Fingerp@ss hates using Ganon on Yoshi's Island...

 

[KayLo!]

Also... what characters despise this stage MORE than Zelda?

I don't know any characters that actually like this stage..... or rather, any players. Most people seem to get annoyed with it.

My experience playing as characters other than Pika/Zelda is limited, so I'll just say that this is considered by many to be Pikachu's worst neutral (personally, I hate Lylat more, but whatever) and one of his not-so-great stages in general.

Full hopped tjolts are a ***** to do on this stage, and approaching becomes even harder than it already is. Plus, believe it or not, those stupid walls on the sides can gimp even Pikachu..... They're so weird.

Have I mentioned that thundering on those slopes can lead to sliding off and fastfalling to your death? Also, buffered dair SDs ftl.

 

[MrEh]

No one hates this stage more then Zelda.

Bowser on the other hand, loves this stage. Being a giant troll, he enjoys things that others despise.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

other than Zelda, the pk kids are the only other ones i really don't like going to this stage as.

Peachs may or maynot like it due to the oddness of the floor messing up ground floating and canceling Fair, but she does get to parasol stall for the ghost if she happens to get edgehogged, or just can't get high enough to reach the ledge.

 

[Darkmusician]

No one hates this stage more then Zelda.

Bowser on the other hand, loves this stage. Being a giant troll, he enjoys things that others despise.

Yeah and there's a nice Troll Bridge for him to get his camp on.

 

[MrEh]

Yeah and there's a nice Troll Bridge for him to get his camp on.

Trolls do best when they have a bridge to hide under. lol

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Have I mentioned that thundering on those slopes can lead to sliding off and fastfalling to your death? Also, buffered dair SDs ftl.

It´s almost the same thing with Ike´s Aether... if he recovers on stage and enemy shields, the slope will shoot him right out of stage.

I´m also quite sure that most Ness hate this stage as much as Zelda.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

so when are we gonna move away from lol Yoshis and stop SDing?

 

[Kataefi]

Okay it's updated! It's now pokemon stadium 2!

There are TONS of tricks you can exploit here imo due to the variety of the terrain. Air stage is my favourite.

 

[KayLo!]

Air stage is good. Zelda likes people above her, and if you absolutely have to, you can teleport to the ground to get your jumps back.

Electric stage (with the conveyor belts) is balls. Get to the middle and defend your area unless you're good with conveyor tricks.

Ground stage is aight. I don't really have much to say about it atm.

ICE SKATING!!! on the ice stage is so fun. It's such a bad habit, but whenever it gets to that transformation, that's literally all I do..... just fsmash and usmash back and forth. XD Not as cute as Pikachu's but still pretty great.

Minus the conveyor belts, I love this stage, but I think it's more of a player thing than a character thing.

 

[Kataefi]

On the conveyor's you're meant to Dtilt lock them to a sweetspot spike setup... you hit them as they trail off the belt, they're in falling stun whilst you get the free spike. Make sure they're grounded, on the belt (at any point) and generally above 50% for it work. Works AMAZING on fat characters, even jigglypuff and kirby type characters who are 'wide' have to take great care from this.

But yeah if you're not in a position to lock them at all or the dtilt has staled too much for frame advantages, then I personally would camp the middle section of this part. Maybe harassing with din's is good? Because if they run at you... they're speed is greatly cut and if they jump they'll be forced to airdodge to the ground which the conveyors will pull them back somewhat. Hmmmm.....

I'm not too fond of the ice stage at all, though sliding dtilts are super fun! The air stage is good because all the characters fall slow. The good thing with zelda is the teleport that bypasses this and she can chase easily below them. Lots and lots of uair setups here <3

 

[Darkmusician]

Pokemon Stadium 2 is a pretty ******** stage and I wouldn't pick it for anything.

 

[Kataefi]

It must be a player personal thing. I know quite a few people that loathe it actually.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

high majority of people don't like it, i've become a PS princess so i like it.

the basic version isn't as good as PS1's cause its bigger and the platforms are higher so no Usmashing through them. the ledges are much nicer than PS1's are though.

the ground form is alright, fun if you can dtilt lock them against the right side the slope, and on the otherside of it Zelda can stop both high and low approachs with Usmash and Dtilt. also standing on that right side she can't really be camped, but can pester others with Dins.

other than the Air i think the conveyor belts is her best one cause once your in the middle you can't be touched, except by like MK. too bad she has no absolute way to take it over if she doesn't get to it first :/

im not a fan of the Ice version, too slippery for me and sometimes my Usmash will slide too far.

 

[Darkmusician]

The only thing I don't mind about Pokemon Stadium 2 is the fact that the ledges are better than number 1. But still there are more realistic (and more effective) stages to play on.

 

[goodkid]

I'm pretty sure PKST2 is banned in most regions. I don't think this is a good cp stage for Zelda, the others in the OP & Castle Siege are waayy better than PKST2.

First off, the stage is big, and landing aerials and camping is slightly limited on this stage because of the terrain & obstacle courses. The rock stage is hard to camp because Din's has to be directed over the hill in the middle and that can be easily predicted. The beginning stage is simple, almost like Battlefield, but bigger and no top platform. The Ice & Conveyor belt stages are limited only to your creativity.

 

[MrEh]

PS2 should never be your counterpick of choice, because there are always better stages.

 

[Kataefi]

Yeah I think it's more a personal choice if anything as I rarely this stage used for any character. I just really enjoy the variety and obscure stage layout for which you can work with.

It's not just a Zelda thingy either, I use this stage for a lot of characters >.<

Earth stage is great with its many platforms and the fact it's split into 2 halves, keeping Zelda very close to her opponent for some good CQC action =D Harassing with nair is fun and surprise power aerials are cool here if you ever land them.

Don't ever use din's fire on the conveyors unless you solely wish to die.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

On the conveyor's you're meant to Dtilt lock them to a sweetspot spike setup... you hit them as they trail off the belt, they're in falling stun whilst you get the free spike. Make sure they're grounded, on the belt (at any point) and generally above 50% for it work. Works AMAZING on fat characters, even jigglypuff and kirby type characters who are 'wide' have to take great care from this.

But yeah if you're not in a position to lock them at all or the dtilt has staled too much for frame advantages, then I personally would camp the middle section of this part. Maybe harassing with din's is good? Because if they run at you... they're speed is greatly cut and if they jump they'll be forced to airdodge to the ground which the conveyors will pull them back somewhat. Hmmmm.....

I'm not too fond of the ice stage at all, though sliding dtilts are super fun! The air stage is good because all the characters fall slow. The good thing with zelda is the teleport that bypasses this and she can chase easily below them. Lots and lots of uair setups here <3

Free Zelda spike? Nice. Too bad I hate the conveyer belts.

Pokemon Stadium 2 is a pretty ******** stage and I wouldn't pick it for anything.

LOL Agreed.

The Rock stage is alright though, because Din's can hit through the platforms.

Quite frankly, for me, it's one of those "Meh" stages.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Yeah I think it's more a personal choice if anything as I rarely this stage used for any character. I just really enjoy the variety and obscure stage layout for which you can work with.

I agree. This stage really divides players to lovers and haters. I see it giving some clear advantages to Zelda, but personally hate it and never CP it.

Free Zelda spike? Nice.

Sadly that´s pretty rare to actually get to work. Certainly don´t rely on it.



PKS 2:

Basic stage is alright. I think of it as a little downgraded version of battlefield. It doesn´t really notably hurt or help Zelda IMO.

Rock stage is actually quite good if you ask me. It gives Zelda more spacing and Nair poking options and helps her defensive game. The mountain blocks approaches from left, platforms limit them from above, as well as block projectiles save some exceptions (Pika´s thunderjolt). All this time Zelda is free to harass her smashes and use Din to bait enemies.

Air stage... it does help landing Uairs, but has a huge downside. If Zelda gets into air, it´s almost impossible to get back on stage as long as the opponent stays calm. Her falling speed in wind is simply horrible and she doesn´t have good aerial game to defend herself against attacks from below. FW helps only if enemy jumps.

Ice skating is awesome! Sliding U-smashes could be the best thing for Zelda after her kicks! F-smash isn´t as good though, since it´s actually easy to DI out of and punish. It´s also good to remember that many characters get even more use out of the sliding effect. Have you ever fought against Ike who knows what he´s doing on this stage? If you have, you know that ice makes it much easier for him to land smashes. And those thing really hurt





Also:

Also... can anyone think of ledgewarp points? (in Norfair)

I´m two stages late, but if you want I can list (at least most of) them and post a picture showing starting points and destinations for each of them.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

In So-Cal, we don't have PS2 as a counterpick. XD

 

[Kataefi]

I thought under the new rules that it was a legal counterpick. Or hasn't that taken effect yet?

edit @half-split: if you could that would so handy! Type funky star into google images to get the star symbol haha! Or just use something more professional!

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Of course I´ll use the star! LOL!

I know the spots already, but it may take me a while to get the pic ready. I´ll post it by tomorrow.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I thought under the new rules that it was a legal counterpick. Or hasn't that taken effect yet?!

thats what i saw, but due to it being a love/hate stage for players some TOs still have it banned reguardless of the SBRs rules or reasons from players to not have it banned.

its like JJ situation pretty much.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

Or Luigi's Mansion.

Really, no one follows whatever SBR rules. Most of it is determined by the region and individual tournaments.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Here´s the quick version of the pic. I know it´s a little messy and all and I can edit it later, but this was the best I could do in short time with my laptop.

Important notes about the stars:

1) They´re not exact locations. Ledgewarping is really accurate in this stage and the stars only show the "somewhere around here" positions, so be sure to train it in practice instead of just blindly trusting this picture.

2) LW:s shown by yellow and green stars can be done from double jump on the corresponding platform, but you´ll need to move very slightly towards left from the edge when teleporting to the right and vice versa.

3) LW:s shown by red and purple stars are very hard to do and in order for them to succeed you´ll actually need to teleport in a downward angle.

4) I think there might be few more TC spots, but those still need testing and therefor are not in the picture.

Excuse for irrelevance for the current stage. Now, back to PS2 .

 

[KayLo!]

I CP PS2 a lot.......... uhh, with Pikachu, but I'd probably do it for Zelda, too.

I <3 janky stages. Can't help myself. ;-; I'd play on Spear Pillar if it was legal.

 

[Kataefi]

The picture is fantastic! Good stuff!

Also... this is my cue to declare my undying love for spear pillar. If only it was a neutral xD

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Excuse for irrelevance for the current stage. Now, back to PS2 .

Actually, I did forget to mention something about Yoshi's Island stage.

Sometimes if you do a Zelda spike, and they land on the middle platform, you can follow up with a Lightning Kick.

Obviously not to be relied on, but it is one of the less common perks of the level.

I <3 janky stages. Can't help myself. ;-; I'd play on Spear Pillar if it was legal.

Also... this is my cue to declare my undying love for spear pillar. If only it was a neutral xD

LOVE that stage too!

 

[sniperworm]

PS2 ... sigh, I'll be back when the next stage comes up.

I CP PS2 a lot.......... uhh, with Pikachu, but I'd probably do it for Zelda, too.

I <3 janky stages. Can't help myself. ;-; I'd play on Spear Pillar if it was legal.

Also... this is my cue to declare my undying love for spear pillar. If only it was a neutral xD

LOVE that stage too!

You people are insane, lol. That being said, Sakurai would be proud.

In So-Cal, we don't have PS2 as a counterpick. XD

I would definitely bug Bobby about banning PS2 if people actually picked it, lol.

 

[Kataefi]

Does anyone have requests for any stages they feel Zelda may do particularly well on?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

distant planet? another hated stage that could have hidden bonus, like free toys

 

[Kataefi]

Alright there's a new stage =D

I'm trying to go through all the legal stages first before we do some of the counter/banned ones actually, so I randomly picked out pirate ship, but we do distant planet sometime later.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

pirate ship lol

its not the best place for Zelda, but its not too bad IMO

her spike is still a bit lacking even though water can hold people still enough to connect easier, its best to only go in the water for that reason only and if it fails get out asap.

unless its against someone like G@W, Zelda isn't affected as much by someone water camping cause your generally out of range and can spam dins for free, the pressure can build a bit more if the bombs are being shot at them as well.

when the ship is falling zelda gets similar bonuses that she gets on PS2 wind part.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Careful about who to play on this stage... if your enemy doesn´t have a spike Zelda clearly has advantage in the water (although not too big) but pretty much every spike in the game is easier to land/stronger than Zelda´s.

Thanks to water Din´s fire can occasionally be harassed well there and it´s also somewhat good on the main ship. Recovering is obviously easy due to water but the blastzones in the sides are somewhat small. This is both advantage and disadvantage as Zelda both dies and kills earlier.

Also, when you see the sky turn back, get back on the main ship as fast as you can. And don´t forget that touching the front part of the ship when it's sailing means insta-death as well as getting crushed between the rocks and the ship when it crashes.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Main People to NOT brawl on this stage would be Ike and Ganon. (Or at least don't go in the water with Ganon)

Ike is very scary on Pirate Ship.

Also, the little flingy thing that occasionally pops up should be avoided. It will probably kill you.