Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[IronWarrior94]

So, what kind of hopes do you all have for the next Smash Bros. anyhow?

I know it's unlikely because 1) We got Ridley and 2) Dread will be irrelevant by the time a potential next Smash comes out, but I'm hoping for Raven Beak as a newcomer.

 

[ninjahmos]

If Scorpion and/or Sub-Zero ever gets into Smash and includes his own stage, I feel like it has to be from the original Mortal Kombat trilogy.

Maybe the Courtyard, the Pit, the Portal or Shao Kahn's Arena...

I want Shao Kahn's Arena so you get to be ****talked by Outworld's Kahn himself.

They should also include this guy

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Sure, but it's still accurate. That's why it never really mattered much nor was it a priority to actually pay extra money to voice them. They are still known for those voices due to the DKC Trilogy being a massive hit. That's why it actually works. It's less so with Bowser since he was changed to be closer to the newer games, whereas DK and Diddy were not. They still are mainly based upon their DKC design. So unsurprisingly they present it more than later games.

I wasn't saying that the "voice" wasn't accurate, but it does feel like a symptom of the problem of Donkey Kong's characterization being less than ideal. His personality is filtered through the lens of him being an ape, and so much is done to make him believable as one that the more personified traits he has in other games fall to the wayside. Donkey Kong is a himbo: A goofy athlete with a love for bananas and brawling. In Super Smash Bros., he's pretty much just an angry ape. I don't think he even captures his portrayal in the original Donkey Kong Country all that well.

Also, Donkey Kong Country voice acts its characters now. The only real reason to keep Donkey Kong this way is money (which is more of a priority thing since they've shown they're willing to overhaul the flavor of characters to upgrade or update their appeal), and "that's how it's always been".


Back to Bowser, I think the voice is more of a problem for him because it's just not very expressive. The updates they made to him are quite good (though why his pretending to trip taunt is still there is beyond me), but his personality still doesn't quite shine through, even with him drop kicking players into next week. I think his victory animations show off the problem the best, as roaring in celebration is something Bowser does a lot, but here it reads like its supposed to be scary or intimidating even though it's really not.

On another note, assuming Mario isn't going to be reusing his old Brawl clips again, I wonder if they're going to update Mario's personality from the weirdly serious one he's got now.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Possibly, though that depends on if Sakurai likes the new va for Mario given the precedent ZSS set not using her Other M voice.

 

[Opossum]

You know, it doesn't get brought up nearly as often as with DK and Bowser, or even Olimar or Isabelle, but if there's one character whose voice, and entire presentation for that matter, is so far from being remotely accurate...it's .

Imagine if Marth got into Smash and was given a voice and personality that clashes with literally every canon portrayal of the character in existence, and to top it all off he wasn't even called Marth, but "Fire Emblem Lord," and his personality was made up to reference what "the general idea of a Fire Emblem Lord is."

That's what happened to Red. Poor guy doesn't even get his name.

 

[DarthEnderX]

One of these things is not like the others
One of these things just doesn’t belong

Oh no!

the dude from Hydlyde

THAT'S a pull.

One of the 3 times as a kid that box art tricked me into buying crap.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That's because... it's not Red. It's a generic Trainer loosely based upon him. He doesn't have a proper voice in canon. It's purely generic lines because he's a general player representative. He has barely a personality either. Various Manga and Anime do give him a personality, though.

The lines are presented even the same way as general lines throughout Pokemon's normal history for the player character. They could've had any design too, it's just Red was a more prominent one thanks to the anime having his counterpart in Ash(who actually does get mentioned in Smash). It also doesn't help Ash is a bit more known worldwide due to the Anime also appearing first in some countries.

Whereas some are outdated, Pokemon Trainer is one of the ones who kept being accurate due to being a Player Insert Character design here. He was the first proper Avatar character playable in Smash(where 4 added more, as did Ultimate). It would've been more interesting if he was actually Red, though. But sadly that's not the direction it went with. It's also much harder to go with a generic design visually when it requires a new model, and isn't a recognizable design. At least the one will make them think "this is Ash" or "this is Red", the most notable Pokemon Trainers in general. They did drop the ball in making it clear it's meant to be more of an Avatar, though. Which is unfortunate. The Trophies do make it pretty clear it's not a specific character(hell, they do the same thing with other protagonist trainers among the Trophies too, not even bothering with their names). Notably Leaf is the only one to actually get properly mentioned going into Ultimate. Red is still not used as a name even then, for whatever reason(likely due to the Avatar factor).

Trying to do both is detrimental, though. It just creates more pointless confusion. Despite being designed around the generic player avatar aspect, it doesn't fully act clear on it.

Oh, yeah, I forgot about the timing; Red didn't get personality till after Brawl. That could've worked having him properly be a non-Avatar if he came into Ultimate first, but the way it's designed works too. I would love to have more costumes based upon other Protagonist Trainer designs, though. 4 males and 4 females works wonderfully, and keeps the aspect of being an Avatar better than the current model. You don't really need new voices either, but that's because they're general voices anyway.

 

[DarthEnderX]

So, what kind of hopes do you all have for the next Smash Bros. anyhow?

Smash Ultimate Deluxe.

Barring that, changes I want for Smash 6:

Character Changes
-Give Ganondorf a completely unique moveset based on Hyrule Warriors Trident Ganondorf.
-Make Black Shadow the Echo of Captain Falcon and give him Ganondorf's old moveset.
-Give Chrom a new unique moveset. Make Lucina his Echo. Make Roy Marth's Echo.
-Give Falco the Sniper Rifle and Wolf the Machine Gun from StarFox Assault.
-Replace Mario's FLUDD with Cappy.
-Give Young Link and Toon Link different subweapons so they aren't just using the same Bow/Bomb/Boomerang combo as Adult Link.
-Make each of Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon a separate Fighter, give every Pokemon except Mewtwo a trainer.
-Make Mythra into Pyra’s Echo.
-Expand the definition of Echo to include Dr. Mario and Pichu.

Gameplay Features
-Rollback netcode.
-Make Hazardless versions of stages selectable from stage select the same way Omega and Battlefield versions are.
-Remember my last color selection for each character. Smash 3DS did this. No idea why Wii U and Ultimate don't.
-Actually balance FS Meter FSes so that people will actually use them in competitive play.
-Kirby style Boss Rush mode.
-Bring back the Smash Run map as a Battle Royal. (64 players teleport in. Players run around killing creeps and collecting upgrades. Map shrinks over time. Last 4 surviving players have a Smash match.)

Additional Content
-More Characters, Echoes, Bosses, obviously. Preferably from my dream roster.
-Mii Mages.
-Bring back any missing Stages and Assist Trophies that didn't already return.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You know, it doesn't get brought up nearly as often as with DK and Bowser, or even Olimar or Isabelle, but if there's one character whose voice, and entire presentation for that matter, is so far from being remotely accurate...it's .

Imagine if Marth got into Smash and was given a voice and personality that clashes with literally every canon portrayal of the character in existence, and to top it all off he wasn't even called Marth, but "Fire Emblem Lord," and his personality was made up to reference what "the general idea of a Fire Emblem Lord is."

That's what happened to Red. Poor guy doesn't even get his name.

Red getting a voice makes a little bit of sense since without it he'd probably just get lost in the background, and his quotes are modeled after his implied battle quotes from the game. Ironically, he's exactly how he is as a player character, but the joke of him not having written dialogue other than "Yes" and "No" was taken to an extreme when he became a recurring NPC, making him extremely stoic, and mute by choice. You might be able to add the stoicism back in through some of his victory animations and stuff, but overall I think he was portrayed about as well as he could have been, ending up kinda like Hero, but with less trainers as fan service...

...Think they'll add Chase and Elaine as alts if the character comes back?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You know, it doesn't get brought up nearly as often as with DK and Bowser, or even Olimar or Isabelle, but if there's one character whose voice, and entire presentation for that matter, is so far from being remotely accurate...it's .

Imagine if Marth got into Smash and was given a voice and personality that clashes with literally every canon portrayal of the character in existence, and to top it all off he wasn't even called Marth, but "Fire Emblem Lord," and his personality was made up to reference what "the general idea of a Fire Emblem Lord is."

That's what happened to Red. Poor guy doesn't even get his name.

Honestly, ever since Leaf was introduced, I think the name "Pokemon Trainer" works. I guess they could just switch the name from Red to Leaf like other alts but, it's a little better now. I'm willing to bet that if Pokemon Trainer was included today, we'd have a bunch of different trainers like with Leaf.

That said, Red didn't have a ton of characterization when he was included in Brawl. Most of Red's characterization comes from the Alola games, and Masters. At the time of Brawl, all we had were the text box reactions (like "Argh! Almost had it.") and the iconic, "..." Unless we wanted to take inspiration from the manga and anime, or give him no voice at all, I think Brawl was acceptable. Heck in Brawl, his dialogue matched the in battle text boxes damn near perfectly. ("Just a little more, Charizard!")

The issue with Red is more of Smash's issue of not updating characterization of veterans to fit with the times. Bowser shouldn't have waited until Smash 4 to stand up right. And Olimar's silence might have been acceptable for Brawl (where I think his only audible vocalization was just saying his name in Pikmin 2), but he never got updated once Pikmin 3 gave him a noticable and distinct voice. And Red himself now has more characterization than just being silent when he's not the player character.

We really do have to update veterans.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Now, some more stage variety for DKC? That is vastly needed.

WINDMILL HILLS!

That's because... it's not Red.

But it should be.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That's because... it's not Red. It's a generic Trainer loosely based upon him. He doesn't have a proper voice in canon. It's purely generic lines because he's a general player representative. He has barely a personality either. Various Manga and Anime do give him a personality, though.

The lines are presented even the same way as general lines throughout Pokemon's normal history for the player character. They could've had any design too, it's just Red was a more prominent one thanks to the anime having his counterpart in Ash(who actually does get mentioned in Smash). It also doesn't help Ash is a bit more known worldwide due to the Anime also appearing first in some countries.

Whereas some are outdated, Pokemon Trainer is one of the ones who kept being accurate due to being a Player Insert Character design here. He was the first proper Avatar character playable in Smash(where 4 added more, as did Ultimate). It would've been more interesting if he was actually Red, though. But sadly that's not the direction it went with. It's also much harder to go with a generic design visually when it requires a new model, and isn't a recognizable design. At least the one will make them think "this is Ash" or "this is Red", the most notable Pokemon Trainers in general. They did drop the ball in making it clear it's meant to be more of an Avatar, though. Which is unfortunate. The Trophies do make it pretty clear it's not a specific character(hell, they do the same thing with other protagonist trainers among the Trophies too, not even bothering with their names). Notably Leaf is the only one to actually get properly mentioned going into Ultimate. Red is still not used as a name even then, for whatever reason(likely due to the Avatar factor).

Trying to do both is detrimental, though. It just creates more pointless confusion. Despite being designed around the generic player avatar aspect, it doesn't fully act clear on it.

Oh, yeah, I forgot about the timing; Red didn't get personality till after Brawl. That could've worked having him properly be a non-Avatar if he came into Ultimate first, but the way it's designed works too. I would love to have more costumes based upon other Protagonist Trainer designs, though. 4 males and 4 females works wonderfully, and keeps the aspect of being an Avatar better than the current model. You don't really need new voices either, but that's because they're general voices anyway.

I'm curious. Are you aware of Pokemon Masters?

 

[Opossum]

That's because... it's not Red.

[Loud incorrect buzzer]

It's a generic Trainer loosely based upon him. He doesn't have a proper voice in canon. It's purely generic lines because he's a general player representative. He has barely a personality either. Various Manga and Anime do give him a personality, though.

It's quite literally him. It's his design, and he has three Pokémon that he's canonically owned. He absolutely does have a canon personality. He's stoic and doesn't like to talk when it's not necessary, but is ultimately a good person. That's a personality, and it's canon. It's also what Masters EX goes with, which has to be canon-compliant. Much like Link, he has one, and the fact that he's silent and you can change his name doesn't change that.

Whereas some are outdated, Pokemon Trainer is one of the ones who kept being accurate due to being a Player Insert Character design here. He was the first proper Avatar character playable in Smash(where 4 added more, as did Ultimate). It would've been more interesting if he was actually Red, though. But sadly that's not the direction it went with. It's also much harder to go with a generic design visually when it requires a new model, and isn't a recognizable design. At least the one will make them think "this is Ash" or "this is Red", the most notable Pokemon Trainers in general. They did drop the ball in making it clear it's meant to be more of an Avatar, though. Which is unfortunate. The Trophies do make it pretty clear it's not a specific character(hell, they do the same thing with other protagonist trainers among the Trophies too, not even bothering with their names). Notably Leaf is the only one to actually get properly mentioned going into Ultimate. Red is still not used as a name even then, for whatever reason(likely due to the Avatar factor).

Trying to do both is detrimental, though. It just creates more pointless confusion. Despite being designed around the generic player avatar aspect, it doesn't fully act clear on it.

It is detrimental. That's why they should stop pretending that it's a generic Trainer and just call him by his actual name, Red, instead of body snatching him and pretending he's Anyone. Let Red be Red, especially since it would actually add more variety to the alts (since Leaf's canon personality is much closer to the way she's portrayed in Smash, she keeps the voice work while Red is mostly silent outside of a rare victory quote or something).

As it is now it's an abject failure of character representation.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm curious. Are you aware of Pokemon Masters?

Yes. I edited my post to reflect that things changed cause of what you mentioned.

 

[ninjahmos]

So, what kind of hopes do you all have for the next Smash Bros. anyhow?

I've said this before, but… a soundtrack mainly consisting of rock and jazz-funk would be pretty cool.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

By the way, if we're talking about characters with inaccurate characterization, can we talk about Lucina?

You can't tell me Lucina wouldn't turn into a complete fan girl meeting Marth. And even if she was disappointed in him (cause she beat him) she wouldn't be so dismissive of him.

"ThIs Is ThE hErO kInG?!?"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

As far as adding more trainers goes, I don't think adding characters from other regions is that great an idea. It wouldn't really make sense for Brendan, Dawn, Ethan, or Serena to have Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard as their team since their starters are different.

You could do Chase and Elaine since they're stand-ins for Red and Leaf, though I'd add a partner Pikachu and Eevee to them for accuracy, even if they're just kinda sitting on their heads or something.

EDIT: Forgot Callum and Serena are given the Kanto starters. It'd still make sense for them to have Kalos starters instead, but the Kanto starters are at least a thing for them.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I definitely don't mean to disparage what you're saying or bring the mood down, since i get the angle, but it just reminds me that I feel like Nintendo has plenty of controversies themselves that aren't as well known. The most focus goes to their obvious legal nonsense, but even in terms of stuff directly relevant to Smash, the company has had allegations of union-busting and cutting contractors just for the suggestion of it, with it specifically being mentioned how even after thousands of hours of play-testing, the NOA playtesters were rejected from being featured in the credits of Ultimate by higher ups. We know that part is specifically true because the old noatesty leaks on reddit said the exact same thing and referenced how terrible the working conditions were. Beyond the more well-known non-union voice acting, Lani Minella hasn't been paid for reuse of her voice clips as Lucas. Or more extreme examples, like the Foxconn child labour scandle when the Wii U first came out, that's largely been forgotten since it happened in 2012. I think it's important to be aware of all that stuff, at least, even if Nintendo definitely seems much better managed on the whole compared to the countless people who have been suddenly laid off today.

Oh I definitely agree that they're still a company at the end of the day and they have their own slew of problems, I was just approaching it from the angle that Nintendo knows how to maximize its longevity and doesn't fire half its workforce for short-term profit, lol. That, and they (usually) care a lot about the quality of the titles they put out.

In that sense I can see Smash being around for a long time, whereas if it were any other company helming the series, we wouldn't have even dreamed of getting anything with the scope of Ultimate, and the series could potentially even be dead in the water as of typing this.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

By the way, if we're talking about characters with inaccurate characterization, can we talk about Lucina?

You can't tell me Lucina wouldn't turn into a complete fan girl meeting Marth. And even if she was disappointed in him (cause she beat him) she wouldn't be so dismissive of him.

"ThIs Is ThE hErO kInG?!?"

Isn't this an oddity in localization only? I did notice that the Palutena's Guidance for Robin as well was more mean to Chrom in only the dubbed version.

But it seems to be an oddity of the localization. Besides misleading names at times, we also have weird characterizations. It's really unfortunate. Who doesn't remember the Kaptain K. Rool mistake? XD

-------------

The thing about adding more Trainers? Many of those games lets you use the Kanto Starters in some way. It's only when it's impossible that it makes no sense. Thanks to trading and all. Almost nobody is going to specifically have a team of Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard in a fight. Outside of emulating Smash Bros. Not even Red does in games, whether he takes more from Ash's team or not. It's a very specific situation. So it doesn't really matter if it would be Gold or the Kalos characters, etc. at that point. It's still just a costume, anyway. I get what you mean about it seeming a little odd, but it would only be odd if it was just Charizard having a Trainer, which means they wouldn't have the other Starters either(you also can't normally get all the Starters at once outside of Yellow, so it's not even something Leaf would normally do, though she might've in Masters? I don't know much about the game).

The whole thing is meant to be a more general take on something a Pokemon Trainer could do within the franchise, including trading with other games, etc. It not being specific, that said, is obviously both a good and bad thing. It makes it more awkward to update Red/Leaf to match their personalities, but it also makes it more awkward to add more in general as is beyond another Trainer design).

Either way, it's an awkward thing. So it's not surprised it's handled loosely enough to feel a tad less awkward.

 

[HyperSomari64]

It's really unfortunate. Who doesn't remember the Kaptain K. Rool mistake? XD

Why does the braw trophy of Baby Mario says that he's not wearing ovralls, when he's already wearing it.
At least the European version fixes it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Isn't this an oddity in localization only? I did notice that the Palutena's Guidance for Robin as well was more mean to Chrom in only the dubbed version.

But it seems to be an oddity of the localization. Besides misleading names at times, we also have weird characterizations. It's really unfortunate. Who doesn't remember the Kaptain K. Rool mistake? XD

...
raises hand


I have seen stuff like that before though. IIRC, Leon's iconic line is also a translation error, and was originally something a lot less standout.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

My characterization hot take is that Pac-Man isn't bad.... And I can see him saying no words as a valid interpretation.

But if he's not making vocalization, he should go all in on arcade noises. He should have the death jingle during a star KO. Every time he takes a big hit, we should hear more beeps and blips like R.O.B.

He doesn't have to speak, but he shouldn't be so silent.

 

[osby]

By the way, if we're talking about characters with inaccurate characterization, can we talk about Lucina?

You can't tell me Lucina wouldn't turn into a complete fan girl meeting Marth. And even if she was disappointed in him (cause she beat him) she wouldn't be so dismissive of him.

"ThIs Is ThE hErO kInG?!?"

That's a voice direction issue for the English dub, really. Her Japanese lines are pretty much the same yet she says them with awe rather thsn condesendence.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That's a voice direction issue for the English dub, really. Her Japanese lines are pretty much the same yet she says them with awe rather thsn condesendence.

Oh I'm aware.

But that's still a failure of characterization by the localization team.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'll add to the pile: Luigi.

Luigi is timid, but he would not cower in fear in the presence of a heckin' Waddle Dee. He's a dork, but he would not pull on his nose until he hurts himself for no reason. He's a bit less exuberant than Mario, but his voice is louder than the quiet squeak it comes out in Smash.

Also what even is his side taunt and why does Sakurai love it so much?

 

[Garteam]

As someone who mains the character, I think Pokemon Trainer's characterization works because it's generally in line with the tone of the Pokemon games. They're generally light-hearted, low-stakes adventures about children and teenagers that bond and grow into champions with their super-powered pets. Pokemon Trainer should be an enthusiastic, excitable kid with an infectious energy because being a Pokemon Trainer is fun and whimsical.

Red's stoic, no non-sense personality works better when he's serving as an NPC in the mainline series or as a playable character in Masters, as those appearances play more into the idea of Red as a legendary trainer who is very competitive and dedicated to his craft. As a player character directly representing the player, though? Having such a jaded and sullen depiction doesn't really fit with being the type of guy who gets the upper hand on his rival because he loves and bonds with his Pokemon instead of just viewing them as a means to accomplishment. I also think the subtext that Red has mentally deteriorated by the time of Gold/Silver due to being consumed by his need to be the best is neat and adds a lot of depth to the character, but a lot of that is probably viewer projection rather than the developer's intent.

Pokemon Trainer desperately needs a new voice though, holy ****. It sounds like Seth Green doing a mix of Ash and Kermit the Frog currently.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Pokémon Trainer simultaneously both is and isn't Red.
Honestly, I've heard this debate since my old account and it's all so tiring and people get weirdly indignant about it.

Yes, the design is that of Red at least as we see him post-FRLG as an NPC outside Alola and Let's Go. Within context of the series proper, the character is chronologically Red and the NPC represents a sort of "canon" route for the player character of Kanto.

But Smash isn't using what is established in the series canon, rather going with representing Red the player character not Red the NPC.
He's not using an established team Red has as an NPC nor does he have any of the stoicism that is prevalent to his character throughout the games he appears in.
Rather he's using a set of Pokémon Sakurai had decided to represent his vision for the concept and has all the mannerisms of a player being controlled from snippets we see in in-battle text boxes.


So yes, he's Red. He's just not NPC Red. He's player Red.

 

[Wonder Smash]

If Scorpion and/or Sub-Zero ever gets into Smash and includes his own stage, I feel like it has to be from the original Mortal Kombat trilogy.

Maybe the Courtyard, the Pit, the Portal or Shao Kahn's Arena...

I've always thought about Shao Kahn's Arena, with the layout looking more like the one from MK Shaolin Monks.

 

[Louie G.]

My take on the Mario characterizations is I really don't mind them for the most part. I'm okay with them being further exaggerated or iterated on for Smash - we see these characters so often, it's kind of fun to see more extreme or competitive takes on them. And their characterization isn't the most consistent even throughout their own games. Mario does get angry and competitive, we've seen it in games like Mario Strikers. Luigi does cower at unfamiliar and sometimes comedically unthreatening enemies... mostly in the M&L RPGs, and of course Luigi's Mansion. They are flexible characters in how far you can push them and Smash simply chooses to push them in the furthest possible direction. I don't think that's inherently a wrong choice.

I do think Bowser could use another pass though. Moveset wise I'm pretty satisfied with him, just in terms of how he emotes, taunts, celebrates... unlike the other Mario characters, what is in my opinion his most bold characteristic trait is not present. Mario is capable and determined. Luigi is the sillier, timid brother. Peach is dainty, with a bit of attitude (Smash was ahead of the curve on that). When I think of Bowser, I think of how brash he is. He's a bully more than he is a beast. The differences wouldn't have to be anything too crazy, but Mario got a few upgraded taunts that made all the difference IMO. So just leaning a bit more into Bowser simply being a showy jerk, and ideally letting Kenny James voice him, that'd be enough for me. Because yeah the godzilla noises and some of his awkward taunts don't especially jive with his more on-model upright design and dropkicks.

As for DK, I'm also a little bit ambivalent. I think the more wild flair these characters are given is quite fun, actually. It's brought out some really interesting creative liberties like K. Rool's insane dash animation... how do you even think of that? I love it. I wouldn't mind if they reel them in a bit, maaaaaybe give DK and/or Diddy their real voices. I think the updated DK expressions were at least a good step in the right direction. But like the Mario cast, we see Donkey Kong all the time, acting as he usually does - I'm okay with them letting Smash go full ape. That's just me.

Maybe more people would be okay with this kind of thing if it was more consistent throughout the entire cast. I understand that. With this kind of character attention dealt toward later additions it may feel like some of the older liberties have dated themselves or feel out of place now. Modern additions, notably within Mario like Rosalina and Bowser Jr, are mostly squeaky clean on-brand depictions of those characters. And K. Rool was given a certain amount of creative liberty because he hadn't shown his kingly mug in 10 years. With these in mind I'm really not sure exactly what the correct course of action is, but I will say I think Smash has been paying it mind and making small steps toward a comfortable common ground. Mario's thumbs up taunt and Cappy throw, for example, reflect the upbeat fun-loving spirit that we all love him for. So maybe we'll see them lean further into it.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

So, what kind of hopes do you all have for the next Smash Bros. anyhow?

Ultimate 2.
Dixie Kong.
Better online.
Online squad strike.
Expanded Classic Mode with a bigger focus on score attack.
Expanded World of Light, the mode is a couple of features away from being amazing.
A DKC2 stage. Ideally Bramble Blast.
A Metroid Prime Trilogy stage that's not just Frigate Orpheon. Like Phendrana, Sanctuary Fortress, or Skytown.
More music from DKC, F-Zero and Mario 3d World.
Doom Slayer, a Doom stage and a ton of Doom music.
Banjo and Ridley buffs
Make ledges less safe. It's too easy to use them to stall matches.
Make Mario smile more.
Even better balance, some characters are just overtuned.
Bring back the cracker launcher!
More bosses if possible. The less generic ones like Marx, Ganon and Dracula are really fun.
Keep going crazy with the new movesets.
Make characters fun to unlock again. Like how you'd have to complete the 100-Men Melee to get Falco back then.
Giygas Assist Trophy.

Yeah, basically expanded Ultimate.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

My take on the greater Mario characterizations is I really don't mind them for the most part. I'm okay with them being further exaggerated or iterated on for Smash - we see these characters so often, it's kind of fun to see more extreme or competitive takes on them. And their characterization isn't the most consistent even throughout their own games. Mario does get angry and competitive, we've seen it in games like Mario Strikers. Luigi does cower at unfamiliar and sometimes comedically unthreatening enemies... mostly in the M&L RPGs, and of course Luigi's Mansion. They are flexible characters in how far you can push them and Smash simply chooses to push them in the furthest possible direction. I don't think that's inherently a wrong choice.

I do think Bowser could use another pass though. Moveset wise I'm pretty satisfied with him, just in terms of how he emotes, taunts, celebrates... unlike the other Mario characters, what is in my opinion his most bold characteristic trait is not present. Mario is capable and determined. Luigi is the sillier, timid brother. Peach is dainty, with a bit of attitude (Smash was ahead of the curve on that). When I think of Bowser, I think of how brash he is. He's a bully more than he is a beast. The differences wouldn't have to be anything too crazy, but Mario got a few upgraded taunts that made all the difference IMO. So just leaning a bit more into Bowser simply being a showy jerk, and ideally letting Kenny James voice him, that'd be enough for me. Because yeah the godzilla noises and some of his awkward taunts don't especially jive with his more on-model upright design and dropkicks.

As for DK, I'm also a little bit ambivalent. I think the more wild flair these characters are given is quite fun, actually. It's brought out some really interesting creative liberties like K. Rool's insane dash animation... how do you even think of that? I love it. I wouldn't mind if they reel them in a bit, maaaaaybe give DK and/or Diddy their real voices. I think the updated DK expressions were at least a good step in the right direction. But like the Mario cast, we see Donkey Kong all the time, acting as he usually does - I'm okay with them letting Smash go full ape. That's just me.

Maybe more people would be okay with this kind of thing if it was more consistent throughout the entire cast. I understand that. With this kind of character attention dealt toward later additions it may feel like some of the older liberties have dated themselves or feel out of place now. Modern additions, even within these series like Rosalina and Bowser Jr, are mostly squeaky clean on-brand depictions of those characters. And K. Rool was given a certain amount of creative liberty because he hadn't shown his kingly mug in 10 years. With these in mind I'm really not sure exactly what the correct course of action is, but I will say I think Smash has been paying it mind and making small steps toward a comfortable common ground. Mario's thumbs up taunt and Cappy throw, for example, reflect the upbeat fun-loving spirit that we all love him for. So maybe we'll see them lean further into it.

I think that's fair, and there are some things that have to stay. Like, what even is Green Missile? Why is it there? It's pretty dumb, but I wouldn't dare remove it. There's also a lot of very small things you could do with his characterization. Instead of just rotating him upside down after Super Jump Punch, have him commit so hard to the punch that he flips himself over and lands on his face. Instead of the weird nose pull, have him smooth out his mustache, but accidentally pull to hard and pop himself in the face with it. Add a rare turnaround animation where his foot slides out from under him while he turns, and he has to break into a run from the floor (ironically this would be a slight buff, as he'd have a random chance to low profile an attack while turning around from a dash).

 

[Noipoi]

So, what kind of hopes do you all have for the next Smash Bros. anyhow?

For any and all predictions I make to be right so I can rub it in the faces of my enemies

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So, what kind of hopes do you all have for the next Smash Bros. anyhow?

Anything Quest 64 related. ...You said hopes, not realism.

I want some kind of Target-related thing back. Generic is fine too. Angry Birds is good enough. Just... something. It's a really fun mini-game. And it also helps you figure out how you want to use the character in both cases. Either learning good timing with certain moves or the best way to shoot the ball to get any angle you need to collect that item. They're honestly quite nice. I do prefer personalized ones, but that's been unfeasible for a while.

Otherwise, just make Master Hand playable already(in a side mode, for understandable reasons). It was pretty silly to not let you use it outside of literally once per Adventure Mode playthrough. It'd be okay if you could reply that battle easily. But for some silly reason, you can't.

Oh, and more Mii costumes. I want to see some crazy 3rd party stuff, including as many of the Assist Trophy choices as possible. They went all out and it was great~ Return 'em all(but don't use that as an excuse to keep a character out. If we can see Geno playable and the Mii Costumes, do eeeeeet!)

 

[Wonder Smash]

A SmashTuber called Thundeluxe just released a video on representing new genres in Smash.

I just want to say, it's too bad he didn't mention beat'em ups. I wonder why didn't he didn't mention that?

 

[SharkLord]

I have a question. As far as the whole grass stage thing goes, I'm pretty sure they're picked to show off the game as a whole, or at least the most recognizable locale within it. Keeping this in mind, which grass stages would you change, and which setting would you pick instead. The setting must be present within, and be based upon the same game as the stage you're replacing. Being pretty loose as to what constitutes a "grass stage" to avoid "but what about X", here are the stages in question:

Spoiler

• Dream Land (Kirby Superstar)
• Yoshi's Island (Melee) (Super Mario World)
• Yoshi's Story (Yoshi's Story)
• Green Greens (Kirby's Dream Land)
• Mushroom Kingdom II (Super Mario Bros. 2)
• Yoshi's Island (Yoshi's Island)
• Green Hill Zone (Sonic the Hedgehog)
• 3D Land (Super Mario 3D Land)
• Golden Plains (New Super Mario Bros. 2)
• Paper Mario (Paper Mario series)
• Dream Land GB (Kirby's Dream Land)
• Balloon Fight (Balloon Fight)
• Mushroom Kingdom U (New Super Mario Bros. U)
• Mario Galaxy (Super Mario Galaxy)
• Skyloft (The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword)
• Gaur Plain (Xenoblade Chronicles)
• Duck Hunt (Duck Hunt)
• Windy Hill Zone (Sonic Lost World)
• Super Mario Maker (Super Mario Maker)
• Spiral Mountain (Banjo-Kazooie series)
• Minecraft World (Minecraft)

My general rule of thumb is that each series should only get one Grassy Starter Stage(TM) to keep the bloat down. It's true that the most memorable stage is usually the first, so I'm fine with a level iconic to the series, like Green Hill or Spiral Mountain. But Green Greens and Dream Land, Green Hill and Windy Hill, and most of the Yoshi stages blend together and really have no place being separate stages, and would be better off scrapped or replaced with a differently themed stage

View attachment 388985

I would be a lot more satisfied with a stage lineup like this.

Edit: Forgot that the Windy Hill replacement technically needed to be from Lost World. I'd choose that honeycomb-looking stage, I guess, but if I were on the team I'd just push for a non LW stage to begin with lol

Like this. This solves all the issues and has much better variety

 

[ninjahmos]

I've said this before and I'll say it again…

Give us Casino Night Zone and/or Flying Battery Zone.

And more Sonic music.

 

[Stratos]

So, what kind of hopes do you all have for the next Smash Bros. anyhow?

For a good Adventure Mode and some of the 89 characters I want to see as newcomers to the Super Smash Bros. series.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Maybe if Shadow or Eggman finally join, they can add the Space Station ARK or the Death Egg as stages.
Knuckles would probably just have Angel Island, but I want Pumpkin Hill...

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

So, what kind of hopes do you all have for the next Smash Bros. anyhow?

Considering a lot of things have already been pointed out, I'll go for something a little controversial - I want every character that gets included to essentially be included from the ground up, as though they were only just being introduced to the series. There's so many... issues that come about simply from older characters maintaining elements from previous games - whether it be character stuff like Donkey Kong's realistic gorilla noises or getting the opportunity to really rethink character movesets (like maybe Luigi's.)

The problem with this is that I'd also say that the next Smash needs to forge more of an identity and stick to it. The problem with Smash in its current form is that it seems to be doing too much at once - hence why you have things like the aforementioned Donkey Kong using exclusively realistic gorilla noises while simultaneously being designed to be more expressive like in his source material, or Mega Man's entire personality being stripped to better represent his NES sprites, while Joker's entire design concept seems to be based more on Persona 5's menus as opposed to its gameplay. All of these can work in a vacuum, but stick to one of them - I don't really mind what that ends up being, but just stick to it.

If it ends up being that the next Smash sacrifices "representation" for the sake of recontextualising characters to work better in a fighting environment, I'm completely fine with that. Likewise, if they want to lean on "representing" the characters and games they include as accurately as possible, that's fine too. The problem is that trying to do both at once doesn't really work. It's how you end up with a Mario that's incapable of smiling and who's had FLUDD since Brawl with his "big selling point" being that Cappy sometimes appears in his up special, while simultaneously getting characters like Kazuya who bring an entirely different control scheme to the game to "better represent" his original series' mechanics.

I don't really mind which way things go, but I think that essentially rebuilding Smash from the ground up as opposed to grandfathering stuff in would help a lot. If you want to keep characters' old movesets around for the sake of returning players, at least just do it as optional choices akin to the Street Fighter series' Edition Select or something.

 

[fogbadge]

in terms of characterization i think it's important to remember than in many ways smash is a fanfic by sakurai