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Let me explain it this way. How polar is FD? How much do grounded chars love it, how much do aerial chars hate it? Is this a good starter stage? Now compare to Brinstar. And let's remember the following, shall we:...........What?
The closest thing I have to camping underneath the main platform on Distant Planet. XD Mr. Doom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr7DtTYoUxA
Strangely enough, he was able to actually reach Meno, even though he was camping it out.Yeah at one point Meno is hanging on the ledge while it's raining and the Ness decides to jump off and get himself killed rather than PK Thunder or get a pellet.
Eh. Frigate is a decent CP for many characters (Lucario, Snake) and an autoban for others (Olimar, even if he does good on the flipside); that's fine for 7 or 9 stage starters but a bit much for a 5 starter list IMO. I'd rather seeIf you're going to have a 5-stage starter list, it should look something like this:
-BF
-Frigate
-Halberd/CS
-LC
-SV
Lol I love your signature especially since I'm the one that created it ^_^BPC's points are all correct.
Eh. Frigate is a decent CP for many characters (Lucario, Snake) and an autoban for others (Olimar, even if he does good on the flipside); that's fine for 7 or 9 stage starters but a bit much for a 5 starter list IMO. I'd rather see
-CS (pretty neutral)
-LC (slightly air biased)
-PS1/PS2 (pretty neutral)
-SV (somewhat ground biased)
-BF (neutralish)
You know what I would like to see is this hypothetical air-ground stage continuum filled out with real stages.
Yeah, that list is pretty balanced with regards to air vs. ground. I might switch up Delfino to offset FD on a 7-starter list, or vice-versa, so that with each expansion you get one new aerial stage and one new grounded stage.BBR 3.1 said:Battlefield neutralish
Yoshi's Island 10neutrals
Smashville grounded
Recommended for 3+ stage starter list
Lylat Cruise aerial
Pokémon Stadium neutralish
Recommended for 5+ stage starter list
Final Destination groundified
Castle Siege pretty neutral with the transformations, 1 and 2 being aerialer and 3 being not quite as bad as FD
Recommended for 7+ stage starter list
Delfino Plaza aerial
Halberd aerialish
Recommended for 9 stage starter list
Who said it didn't exist? I think I'm missing the point of your post.The fact that acid doesn't kill doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's a "combo move", it starts, continues, and finishes sometimes. It helps with recoveries and more stuff.
Good point. Acid combos Oli to hell and back >.<Was more in response to cadet who ignores acid alltogether by saying it doesn't kill till 200+
Very significant, though this is a problem with Metaknight, not the stage.Brinstar also allows sharking, which is pretty significant IMO.
Well I wouldn't be recommending Brinstar for starter anytime soon, and after some recent thinking I'm beginning to wonder about its status as a counterpick. I'm on the fence...I need to think more about what competitive Brawl should be...G&W can definitely abuse it pretty well.
Having a prominent sharking feature of a stage certainly warrants merit in discussion of how polarizing the stage is.
I think you missed the point of my post...Was more in response to cadet who ignores acid alltogether by saying it doesn't kill till 200+
Leaning grounded.Battlefield neutralish
Definitely grounded. Have you seen the kind of stuff that you can do under that platform?Yoshi's Island 10neutrals
Amen.Smashville grounded
Not that aerial. It's certainly not on the aerial half, or if it is, around where BF is.Lylat Cruise aerial
GROUNDED. PS1 is pretty heavily grounded.Pokémon Stadium neutralish
I'd have to disagree with you about BF, YI, and Lylat.I think you missed the point of my post...
Leaning grounded.
Definitely grounded. Have you seen the kind of stuff that you can do under that platform?
Amen.
Not that aerial. It's certainly not on the aerial half, or if it is, around where BF is.
GROUNDED. PS1 is pretty heavily grounded.
Just mentioning this.
awesome 3.1, so whens adhd coming?
You're late lol.Ok, I can live with this.
I agreed with him from the beginningThings
Um, you missed this.Ok, I can live with this.
When you get towards the middle, the advantages or disadvantages for either side even out- i.e. the median stage approaches a true "neutral," even if such a thing does not exist. Heck, infinity doesn't exist either, but you can approach that.How can you have a grounded stage for every aerial one, when starter lists are all odd numbered? 3 5 7 9. One side is gonna get 2-1, 3-2, 4-3, or 4-5.
Luxor, I have only begun seeing your posts today, but I think I love you. (I also like your signature.)When you get towards the middle, the advantages or disadvantages for either side even out- i.e. the median stage approaches a true "neutral," even if such a thing does not exist. Heck, infinity doesn't exist either, but you can approach that.
I'm going to order the new starter stages from most to least ground based:
Grounded
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island
Pokémon Stadium
Castle Siege
Battlefield
Lylat Cruise
Halberd
Delfino Plaza
Aerial
I kind of got lost towards the middle there because it's pretty ambiguous as to whom PS1, CS, BF, and Lylat favor- they are pretty "neutral." (Please help correct me, guys.) Would ICs really mind playing MK on PS1? Not really- There's only two plats for him to hide on! Would MK mind playing them there? No! He has two different plats to hide on and a bunch of transformations that are in his favor. Towards the middle of the list a near "neutral" is achieved. IMO, we want to start the smaller starter lists with the more "neutral" stages, so 3-starter would be like
Pokémon Stadium
Castle Siege
Battlefield
, 5-starter like
Yoshi's Island
Pokémon Stadium
Castle Siege
Battlefield
Lylat Cruise
, and 7-starter like
Smashville
Yoshi's Island
Pokémon Stadium
Castle Siege
Battlefield
Lylat Cruise
Halberd
And now since I know someone will say "hey luxor why don't you just pick one stage in the middle and start EVERY match there," we don't do that because of benefits particular stages give to particular characters. BF is pretty "neutral," but gives an extra edge to Marth that his/her air/ground balance doesn't predict. If CS was the "one" stage, D3 would be buffed. You therefore want the stagelist to be balanced with respect to air vs. ground but large to eliminate outliers like these; that's why the 9-starter list is probably the best option.
/wall of text and colors
There isn't any, outside of how they formatted itThere certainly seems to be a lot more freedom with this list...looks nice though. I'll have to start relearning some stages it would seem xD
What was the difference between 3.0 and 3.1? I wouldn't mind knowing due to all the chatter over it cause I was away when this was first posted
But those don't exist in Brawl, not that I can remember anyways. This continuum is based off of stages in the game.Luxor: That is kind of misleading. The polar opposite of an aerial stage wouldn't be final destination, it would be a large stage that had hazards that only appeared in the air.
I know you're doing it in relative terms, but I thought I should say something anyway.
Hasn't planking already proven to be technically unbeatable? Judging by this statement, MK should already be banned according to the BBR.A more serious allegation is that ledge play breaks the game; debate here continued, for example through the stage discussions, with the degree to which Meta Knight is (un)beatable when playing near each ledge consistently appearing in the discussions. However, the BBR finds that ledge based play is not fundamentally any different or "worse" than stage based play, and there is no reason for tournaments to prefer one type of play over the other. If ledge based play breaks Meta Knight, then that means that Meta Knight is broken, not that the ledges themselves are broken, and as such attempts to ban the use of the ledges is out of line.
Is this really what the nature of our competition is supposed to reflect? Someone has out-played you, so you take them somewhere that their character must overcome mountains to succeed?It's a counter pick in nature... not all characters have the tools to be successful on it at all.
But what if someone is off of their game during Game One? For some characters it becomes nearly impossible to recover after that...is this even fair? Wouldn't it be better to play on a stage where they at least stand a chance of showing that they are a better player even though they didn't show it during the first match?They really should have just recommended an MK-specific LGL, it's really the only thing that works while still letting G&W/Pit/Rob have their fun.
@Vocal- Stages are an inherent part of smash. This isn't Street Fighter Bros. Brawl. The PvPvS dynamic is something this game has that sets it apart from other fighters; see BPC's sig for further details. As far as your point about CPs... if you can win Game 1 without any extra "advantage," you can always just blow Game 2 and r@@@pe Game 3 on your CP. The system balances itself, since it's impossible to win without trumping your opponent in at least one neutral or disadvantaged scenario.
This is why I said I needed to think a lot more on the matterThings