The week before - MLG DC
$6000 Payout total, $5000 for first, $1000 for second. I'm sure everyone realizes how incredibly unbalanced this is, especially considering the nature of the bracket. First place getting 5 times the amount of 2nd is insane, and has never happened at any smash tournament. First round matchups included matches such as Fatal vs M2K and Lee vs Ally. Two of these players would be in losers from the start, the bracket had no seeding at all.
I can understand why there is no seeding in an 8 man championship bracket. This bracket actually favors you heavily.
Cheese and I had thought to make a split so all 7 of us (8 person bracket with me in there twice) could all receive at least some money to both have a good time in Vegas and to help us travel to Dallas in a few weeks. We had obviously decided to award more to the higher places. We had tossed around a couple ideas of splits, such as $2500 for first and $580 for the rest, among other ideas. We had talked to everyone at DC to see if they would agree or not. Every person we talked to agreed to it except for Ally, who was a maybe on it. Even M2K agreed to it saying that as long as first place got at least $2500, he would be fine with it. Ally was hesitant on agreeing with it mainly because it seems he was getting flustered since Cheese was getting kind of heated when we were discussing it in the car. Other than M2K and Ally, Lee agreed to it, Haze agreed to it, and Fatal agreed to it.
So basically, everyone except the two players who had the largest shot at winning the tournament, and OH LOOK, the ones who actually placed in the official money. Obviously everyone agreed to get a cut to get what is predicted to be M2k and Ally's money, LOL!!!!
Vegas Day 1 (Day before the tournament)
While Cheese, Fatal, and I we're hanging out (we mostly did the entire weekend) we had thought that 2500/1000/500/500/500/500/500 was likely the best split we could do. It awarded the most money to first (and the minimum amount that M2K wanted), did not even change the second place payout, and made sure everyone got money. We decided it would be good to keep placements such as last and second to last the same due to the nature and unbalance of the bracket. We didn't bring it up to the others yet (we haven't discussed this at all since DC) since Mike Haze wouldn't be arriving until the next day and we hadn't gotten a chance to talk with MGC yet.
The most unbalanced thing I see in this bracket is the fact that YOU are in it twice, which is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard of. Entered twice into an EIGHT PERSON BRACKET. ROFL, stacked in all types of new ways. That's Vegas for you
Vegas Day 2 (Day of the tournament)
Our first goal was to talk to MGC about this to see if they would support the idea. We know that splitting can cause some bad blood with tournament hosts (such as the M2K - ADHD split the week prior at MLG), and we we're more out to change the payouts and not a personal split situation. After speaking with Blake Pettigrew, the head of MGC, we described how we thought the payouts were unbalanced, especially considering the nature of the bracket, and proposed our new idea. Blake liked the idea and was very supportive of it. Blake even offered to draft up new checks for every player to avoid confusion. He said that if everyone agreed to this, he would do it. From here we proceeded to go to the hotel room where the other 4 players were practicing.
I like this guy Blake. He basically doesn't give a **** what the players do with their money, and tries to be cooperative. Respect. Also, respect to you for honoring TO intentions.
We had told them how we had spoken to Blake and that he was fine with it and would help us out, to which we were met with the reply: "No, we're not splitting. We're only going to split the money between us four, that's it." Completely baffled by this, we question if it was a top 4 new payout they were working for, or if they were literally just splitting money between the four of them - the latter of which was correct. Why they would completely alienate the three of us made absolutely no sense and I don't get it. It's not even a situation where hey lets not split with worse players (myself and Cheese) that they could beat, since Fatal was a top player and he was getting screwed over as well.
In your situation, I would be upset about being excluded by this, but in the end, it just reveals how people actually feel about you. However, you yourself said that Ally was never cool about the split, so I'm not actually hating on him for deciding on a split that didn't include you. If it were me, I would've tried a bit to appeal to Elliot's better nature, but I still would not feel entitled to money I did not win.
Nothing we said changed their mind, and we were given replies such as "why would I do the split you guys want and get $500 when I could do this one and get $1500? I have a $700 ticket I have to pay." from Mike Haze. Their reasoning seemed to be based on nothing more than being selfish actions. Obviously this had upset us because a couple of their places in the bracket were questionable. MGC specifically stated that the tournament is only for citizens of the US and we know for a fact that Mew2King did not play in his qualifier match online. I had questioned the fact about M2K there in the room and asked "How are you even in the bracket M2K?" To while he replied, "None of your business."
These replies make sense to me. Imma go to a tournament and be like, "Yo, M2k, split that pot wit me dog." Course, Jason is gonna be like, "Pierce, you're out of your ****ing mind. I do this as a job, why would I just give you money."
Now, as for Jason not playing his qualifier, good hustle, LOL. But obviously, that's something you'd be better off taking up with the tourney organizer. At that point, if we're going to be about the money, then take off the gloves and start getting serious.
A little background on that, Cheese in fact had to play M2K in the qualifying match. He unfortunately does not remember to check the friend code, however they did play the match. Cheese got absolutely destroyed he said, but the person he played did not go straight Meta Knight like M2K obviously would, going MK one game and Lucario the other. Furthermore, the match was nearly lag free, which is impossible since M2K was in Australia for a tournament at the time. Furthermore he was housing with Shaya, and I had played Shaya not too long before this online for a online BBR tournament, and it was one of the laggiest matches I have ever played in Brawl.
Good evidence. Why didn't you bring this up with this Blake guy AGES ago though?
Vegas Night 2 (The tournament)
We all get there for the tournament and nothing had changed. They had not agreed to do the new payout system, etc etc. As the tournament started Cheese had started to talk to the referees questioning M2K and Ally's place in the bracket. I did not particularly push for either (though I was always more questionable of M2K and questioning his place since he literally cheated his way into the bracket compared to Ally just being a technicality). What Cheese did was not wrong at all. Understand that we had four players ganging up on us trying to take the top 2 spots to split all the money amongst themselves completely screwing 3 of us out of anything. For no reason we have Fatal not getting any money despite being a top player and Cheese and I having M2K, Lee, and Haze, three fellow teammates with our sponsor, trying to stop us from getting money at all costs. Cheese only tried to do back to them what they did to us, however using official rules. If M2K did in fact cheat his way into the bracket (and there is no way you can convince us that a lag free match with a MK/Lucario was M2K from Australia), and if only US citizens are supposed to be in the tournament then I hate to say it, but it sucks for Ally. If we had not been alienated in the first place by them we would have never brought any of this up.
You are still bringing this up from the perspective that you are losing money, when in actuality, you were never entitled to any money. From where I'm standing, it looks like 4 players distributing their rightfully earned money, because two of them actually placed in that money and gave some to two others for their own reasons. Payout was top two (which is far from unreasonable for an 8 man tourney IMO, even if not my optimal distribution). Honestly, I also would've agreed to not even bothering with Double Elim for 8 people, TWO OF WHICH WERE YOU, LOL.
I do not hold it against you for bring up the fact that M2k cheated his way into the tourney if he actually did. I don't even hold it against you about bringing up Ally being Canadian. He's my friend, so I wouldn't have done that (I'm not independent, and I don't have bills to pay for, so while I would've liked the money, I don't have the adult view of it as a need). If that were someone I didn't know, I might've done that too.
In response to the people saying that it was because Cheese was angry at not getting money, this is 100% false. We were very clear (especially Cheese) that we were upset at the four of them working together to split the money to the 4 of them, instead of paying out top 4. Cheese said multiple times to them if they had instead just wanted to do a new top 4 payout and give us all a equal chance at earning it, there would be no problem.
You had an equal chance to earn the money already. In fact, you had 2x greater chance than anyone else.
Long story short neither M2K nor Ally were taken out of the bracket, and the tournament started. The first matches were myself vs Cheese and Ally vs Lee. I had lost to Cheese, which I partially blame to my broken controller. I had then asked Cheese if I could borrow his controller to play Mike next, to which he let me. Before we play I tell Mike something along the lines of no hard feelings, I don't want all of this nonsense to come between us (thinking we were friends), to which he agrees, it was all bs and we were still friends. The moment the match started I was shielding without holding shield... Confused, I paused the match to find out what was wrong with the controller (mind you this was the first time I used this controller and I paused within one second due to a controller malfunction). Mike Haze immediately talked to the ref behind us trying to get me disqualified. The ref was baffled at this and claimed over and over that it meant nothing. It was 100% beyond my control, and my controller was physically broken. We had started the match 3 times, reset the controller, etc, it didn't work. The ref was not going to DQ me either since it was outside of my control and it was a malfunction within one second of the match. Mike Haze exclaimed "BUT I WAS GOING TO READ HIS ROLL THAT'S NOT FAIR!" but the ref dismissed his comments and let me switch back to my old controller (which the analog stick was the broken part of it, not going left well at all, such as vs Cheese I went to dash grab his ICs going left but ended up doing a standing grab, which got me grabbed by him and losing a stock).
**** move by MikeHaze (please name search this, I would like you to have an opportunity to defend yourself), I agree. I would've let you switch your controller, especially if they're already splitting. I dunno what's up with that.
We do the match and I win the first game. Things were looking bad for me as on the last stock I was down by about 70% but I utilized the ledge a bit and tacked on damage a bit with lasers and gyros until I gimped him by stealing his double jump with my laser unbeknown to him. After the first match ends Mike talks to the ref to try and get me disqualified for "ledge stalling." I was clearly attacking the entire time, just from the ledge. It's not my fault that Mike didn't punish my openings, and whiffed every tipper attempt he went to. Mike even went as far as to get the rule sheet and try to get me under the stalling rule, but it clearly didn't apply to me and the judge dismissed his comments. The first match was ROB vs Marth on Smashville. Game 2 was similar with ROB vs Marth, but on Battlefield, though Mike won. Game 3 Mike decides to ban Japes. The stage list was a little wonky but we both knew the legal stages. I picked Luigi's Mansion, figuring it would be awful for Marth against ROB, and didn't think I would do too poorly vs his MK there. As I expected Haze switched to MK. We went neck and neck for the first stock, though Haze got the first kill. Haze immediately started to camp me from the second story of the house wasting the timer. I kept my composure more or less though started to lose the match. Haze got a fairly early kill from me missing a key tech (early considering I lived to like 250% on my first stock). After a little bit we were at 2 stocks each, Mike at 0% and me at kill %, which is when Mike got the kill on me. As I died Mike screamed yes! and paused the game by accident. I called the ref over. There were multiple witnesses that he paused it by accident and even the ref himself saw it. Unsure exactly what the consequence should be, the ref talked to another official to determine the outcome. They decided that Mike would lose a stock, the difference from this being that when I paused game 1, it was within one second of the match against my control since the controller I was using was defected and Mike's paused was far into the match by his own mistake. The match continued with Mike losing a stock so it was 1 stock 0% each with 1.5 minutes on the timer. It wasn't a new match, it just continued from there with him losing a stock, it was just so even like that by coincidence. We started from both sides of the stage, and went on the count of 3. I knew that being MK needing % he would rush in with nado, so I prepared to beat it. He did just that, and I literally tacked on about 75% in around 5 seconds of so fsmashing him out of the nado then following his techs. The match ended by time with me winning by %. Mike refused to shake my hand. Seems like we we're still friends as he said at the start even after he was the first one to try and get me dq'd eh?
Probably would've done the same as you in this case. First we say "No hard feelings" then you try to get me DQed in the first second of the first game? LMAO, that's on some Cheese status.
The tournament continued and the next big thing was that Fatal defeated M2K. Fatal straight up won the first match, and M2K picked Rainbow Cruise. Things were looking bad for Fatal as he was down on the last stock at about 150% to M2K's 60%. They were at the top of the stage (I believe on the falling blocks above the pendulum) as M2K attacked Fatal's shield who down air'ed him out of shield, completely fresh, killing M2K at a surprising 60% to win the set.
Good ****ing **** Matt!!!!
Immediately after Fatal won the set they started to discuss a new split, without Cheese and I. Why? I don't know exactly. Perhpas Fatal was now seen as a threat? When I tried to find out what was happening they wouldn't let me hear anything as they talked.
They perceive him as a threat, he perceives them as a threat, they work out an agreement. They didn't perceive you as a threat, and considering your placings, I can't say I don't see why.
At the end of the tournament M2K had beaten Fatal in losers finals and then he threw the set to Ally in grand finals for some reason, with neither of them going their mains. As a note Mike Haze mysteriously left, without anyone knowing why. Haze came back shortly after, this time without his vVv shirt on and proclaiming that he was quitting. The reason seems to be primarily because of Cheese (even though Cheese did nothing wrong really after being screwed out of money from the other 4), and he was especially upset at Cheese trash talking Haze/rooting for me in my set with Haze. Instead of talking anything over he literally ran back to the hotel room to change his shirt, and quit vVv without talking it over with anyone, literally the definition of "rage quit." Later he continued to make snarky comments to me such as "Oh hey, nice shirt you're wearing." and such.
Once again, **** move. I know how Mike is. I don't agree with him quitting vVv, but it's his choice. What characters did M2k and Ally use?
After the tournament ended I find out what the payment split they did was. I have since heard a different split, but to my understanding this is what the results and payout were:
1. Ally - $2,000
2. Mew2King - $1,000
3. Fatal - $300
4. Lee Martin - $1,500
5. Chibo - $0
5. Cheese - $0
7. Chibo - $0
7. Mike Haze - Between $300 and $500
LMAO. So basically, Jason kept his winnings, and Ally distributed $3000 of his precious dollars to Lee, Fatal, and Mike? ROFL!!!!!!!! Get ***** Ally.
I know those numbers don't match up to $6000 exactly, hence the confusion. I'm hearing two different payout spreads. However what I do know is that Haze got at least $300 while Cheese and I got nothing.
Yeah, but NONE of you were entitled to any money. It's Ally's choice if he wants to just give it away to Lee, Matt, and Mike.
I immediately asked most players that were standing around, why did Haze get money for being the only person to get last and I receive nothing for beating him and outplacing him? It is incredibly unfair to me competitively. Ally replied, "because I asked like a **** and tried to DQ him, so you ****ed yourself over from getting money." I guess he had forgotten about how the four of them tried to stop Cheese, Fatal, and I from getting any money? Also not to mention Fatal got a paltry $300 for third place having Lee Martin who placed below him win MUCH more.
In a normal tournament, everyone tries to stop everyone from winning money, by winning the money themselves legit. All I see is increased opportunity to win money by agreeing to split with top players. IMO, they split with the players they perceived to be a threat, maximizing chance of profit while sacrificing a portion of the profit. If you need money, smart move. The risk takers don't always fair so well in Vegas.
So essentially that's where we are now in terms of this. A lot has happened since then concerning vVv and such but I'm going to save that for the official announcement and the Loser's Bracket podcast in a few days.
Looking forward to it.
okay, you did a lot for Ally. I admit that. Even if he hated your guts, he still has a lot to be grateful. Just because people are abundant in favors to a person, doesn't mean that person should not be abundant in gratitude.
However, I do not see why this means that Ally must include you in the split. The way I see it, that's akin to directly charging Ally for the services you did for him, because in the end, that's the same thing. He would giving you money he earned. If you are not charging him, you cannot complain he didn't split with you. If he was rude to you, dishonest, or in some other way morally or ethically wrong, then I agree with you in that regard, that what he did was a **** move. Otherwise, I don't see why he should feel obligated to split with you if you house him. ****, I would house people all the time!
M2k, trying to move in??!?!?!?!
****...
