Ike : A Detailed Matchup Guide; #33 - Ness

I'm not sure on Distant Planet's legalty, I'll have to come back to you and check that out, I don't know what would be game breaking about it though, the rushing water isn't as much of a problem as it is on JJ because you can actually grab the ledge on the left side of it...

As for the bulbob (bulborb...god anybody here play Pikmin enough to know what that thing was called again...?) MAYBE, that thing can be a little bit of a problem, it might come out of nowhere and help people recover in the case where if it wasn't there they would've died; now although that would be a nice asset to Ike if he gets lucky, I think I can see how this would be debatable. Also when the thing has it's mouth open it doesn't really help those who have been pushed quite a ways, which again Ike can get unlucky in the same place.

The hanging platforms...if you stand on them long enough will bring you down to the same height almost, and if they haven't been tampered with I think Ike can just duck to avoid most attacks that come down. Err...you know I ould go on forever with this stage but let me go check the legalty of this place so I don't potentially waste anymore time.

As for Delfino Plaza, I wasn't really concerning myself with the water spike thing, even though I do know that that can be a tactic. The platforms at times are sometiems too high for any character to try a Usmash attack, and you can probably expect some Nair/Uair assaults if you're on them.

...Yeah, wather or not Distant Planet is allowed or not, I think both DPs are at best neutral for Ike - G&W...can somebody here point me/us in the right direction for a good CP please?

Edit: Towards A2:

It's not that we don't like platforms, it's that we don't like BEING on them, when we're the ones on the assault you better be prepared to do anything not to get hit, or you will be multilated badly.

As for CPing Jungle Japes, Ike would be so much better off going FD, f*** if we get in that water we aren't likely to get back up on the stage.

Further edit: According to the sticky in the stage section of this Forum, Distant Planet is a legal counterpick.

Kinzer said:

Does Distant Planet/Delfino Plaza work as counterpick CP stages for G&W, anybody else agree/disagree?

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Distant Planet is Counter/Banned so it depends on what the TO does with it. If you can counterpick it, I don't know what to write about it because I don't like that stage much for some reason.

As for Delfino, when the stage is moving, G&W has the advantage. When it stops at a location, it can go either way depending on what location it is. Ike does better at the parts with water while G&W seems to do good at the parts with walk-off edges from my experience with this.

Also, if you CP Jungle Japes, stay on the f***ing right of the stage. If you go to the left and are in the water, you're screwed.

Distant Planet also has projectiles for Ike to use: ones G&W can't bucket, which could help a fair bit. I wouldn't choose Cornilea(sp?). Arwing Lasers + Bucket = Major Pain. >_<

Stages with platforms can go either way. Both characters love be underneath them, and hate being on them. For G&W, it means free damage racking. For Ike, it can mean free KO, considering G&W's weight.

Overall: For Neutral, if your confident enough that you can not get platform'd yourself, go for BF. If not, I'd go for SV or FD. If somewhere in between, go for Lylat Cruise. The platforms are high enough up that I think G&W would have to full hop to use Nair on you, and you can still use the tilting to your advantage. For Counter Pick, Distant Planet or Pirate Ship.

BTW: Does anyone know if G&W can bucket Eruption? I know he can bucket stuff like Force Palm and Fire Breath, which has me thinking that me might be able to do the same with Eruption.....which would be REALLY bad if he could and did.

Nidtendofreak said:

BTW: Does anyone know if G&W can bucket Eruption? I know he can bucket stuff like Force Palm and Fire Breath, which has me thinking that me might be able to do the same with Eruption.....which would be REALLY bad if he could and did.

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He is unable both to bucket both non-charged and fully charged Eruption fire.

Ike is all physical .

Well, thats good. It was the Bucketing Forcepalm that got me thinking, because I had done it once on wifi by accident. I was going for Judgement for what ever reason, hit bucket, and absorbed the part shot out by Lucario.

Either that, or I had absorbed an aura sphere before that, but I don't think I had.

Anyways, I can't think of any other stages worthy of note.........Maybe Port Town Drive, seeing that's it's a CP/Ban? The Cars would KO him REALLY early. Even standing on the platform when the cars come doesn't mean your safe. Some of them are tall enough to hit you through it.

Aero Dive doesn't seem to be a viable choice in competitive/tournament play, in fact I don't recall one situation other than some friendlies where it has been a legal counterpick...

Right now Distant planet is looknig promising, and as mentinoed before it's up to the TO to say whether it can be used or not, but the sticky in the respective forums suggests it can be used...I think you just have to get lucky there. As for a sure-fire counterpick somebody else is going to have to come up with it because also as stated before by A2, G&W really doesn't have any stages where he can be outshined.

Anyway Light, of course he's all physical, why do you think I went nuts with ZSS?

Kinzer said:

Aero Dive doesn't seem to be a viable choice in competitive/tournament play, in fact I don't recall one situation other than some friendlies where it has been a legal counterpick...

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I am near positive it's CP/Ban......can't check right now, supper. But still, if there was a tournament were they allowed it, I'd choose that stage.

It's true that PTAD is a CP/Ban stage, but Hell the chances of going to a tournament with that as a counterpick are quite slim, and not to mention the cars can kill G&W just as easily as they could Ike, in fact Ike would probably have more trouble dodging the F-Zero racers just because he is a heavy character while G&W can simply just Over-B for the duration of the vehicles. Don't even get me started where the F-Zeros come from the right side whenever they feel like can kill any unlucky bypasser that happens to be grounded when they come around.

Pick FD or Smashville. Ike beats out G&W in a ground game. Without platforms its more towards your advantage.

I have some experience in this matchup, and it's really not as bad for Ike as most of you guys make it sound. It feels about even to me.

The first and most obvious point is that Ike outranges Mr. Game & Watch in general. That's a really big deal. It means that correct spacing puts him in places where you can hit him and he can't hit you. Also, in general, Mr. Game & Watch can't use Chef to force you to approach. As long as you stay reasonably close, you can just stuff a forward tilt in his face if he tries that. So yeah, Ike "wins" the spacing game and can threaten Mr. Game & Watch without putting himself in danger.

The issue for Ike is, of course, that Mr. Game & Watch is a lot faster than he is and will be using his mobility to break the spacing and pressure Ike. You have to play really precisely to be able to handle the turtle especially. Just know that if Mr. Game & Watch whiffs it you should be able to pull off a hit. Jab combo is mostly a "get away" move that will be used a lot to reset when Mr. Game & Watch breaks in.

If Mr. Game & Watch tries using the key from above, up smash him out of it. Yes, this does beat it out; the timing is just really strict. Obviously it won't work if Mr. Game & Watch is very close when he pulls out the key, but it's still a really useful tool in limiting that move. If you are coming down on Mr. Game & Watch, remember that the up aerial isn't actually hurting you. He's refreshing his stale moves... big deal. Just air control around a bit and see if you get down or otherwise try to set it up so he goes for a real hit. Eruption super armors its way through fishbowls so that's good. Also, if you really need to get down for some reason, you CAN air dodge through it. It only seems like you can't if you air dodge too late and you see the air dodging animation go off as you start to fly up.

About stages, I really don't think picking a neutral is going to help you (ever really). Sure Final Destination isn't Mr. Game & Watch's favorite neutral, but he's not going to wince at it at all. Mr. Game & Watch generally doesn't like Mario Circuit so that's a good pick if allowed, and as long as you don't mind stalling out the conveyors, Pokemon Stadium 2 is pretty decent (the electric form hurts, the ground form and flying form seem to help, and the ice and default forms seem about neutral). Onett lets Ike attack through a few things and generally seems like a good stage for him too. Jungle Japes isn't where I'd pick as Ike; he has major problems with the water and will lose out on those little platforms. If you want to be really obnoxious you could pick Brinstar; that stage is pretty hard to move around with Mr. Game & Watch which you may or may not be able to exploit (it has some things that Ike doesn't like either, of course). If you just want a flat stage, I really think PictoChat would serve you better than Final Destination. Remember that your sword goes through the drawings; a few of those forms are going to be pretty nice for Ike. Also, for the record, Mr. Game & Watch loves Port Town Aero Dive; I would really suggest against giving him a gift like that. Distant Planet is probably okay (it's just counter, not counter/banned), but it's not ideal as Mr. Game & Watch can exploit the underside of the main platform better than Ike can. If you like that slope, Yoshi's Island (melee) is probably better.

Cambriel it's been said already >_>


G&W normally doesn't use a key against Ike who has aether, utilt/smash, and counter. But I still say FD/SV is the best choice because without platforms, superior spacing will win the match. platforms would give G&W more of a chance to hurt you, But if you're platform game is necessary to you go ahead and pick BF/Lynat, you both have great platform abuse and you have more vertical kills than G&W therefore G&W won't kill you from the platform but you will.

I play Arturito Burrito's ike and he is ****ing good but my Mr. Game&Watch just wins almost all the time because he definitely has the advantage at about 80-20 or 70-30. Mr. G&W just keeps putting so much pressure leaving Ike with very few options. Ike's jab seems to be a bit of a problem but if G&W has proper spacing then it should be no problem. Ike is too slow and predictable for G&W.
Match up is easier once you know Ike's weak spots which Arturo let me know after a while

What's up with people saying 80-20/70-30 when it's clearly not that?

It's a curse I tell you...

HeroMystic said:

What's up with people saying 80-20/70-30 when it's clearly not that?

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Ok I exaggerated with 80-20 but its also not 60-40. Its definitely 70-30 in G&W favor according to the G&W boards too

Duffman is a spamy noob don't listen to him

Well hey, furiousduffmanx, we don't use numbers here. All we post here is how to win. Not the chances of winning. So you can be quiet about the numbers and keep them to your G&W buddies. If you want our opinion thats fine, we'll tell you it and you don't have to believe it, but this thread is not seeking your opinion on numbers. You can state you opinion about the match up though. although your opinion as of now is being disregarded by me since its what I've heard the past 7 months about Ike.



There are only 3 matches I will accept as 30/70 for Ike and that is DDD, MK, and Olimar**


**I have squat experience against Pit and my only Falco 1vs1 was in teams when i was ahead by 100% by the time my partner died**

Ussi said:

There are only 3 matches I will accept as 30/70 for Ike and that is DDD, MK, and Olimar**


**I have squat experience against Pit and my only Falco 1vs1 was in teams when i was ahead by 100% by the time my partner died**

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I was gonna say "What about Falco?", but then I saw the last line you posted. xD

I'm just waiting till I get to play keitaro from NY. Then I can either add Falco to the list/tell you guys Falco isn't a problem

Ugh, we need to move on to the 14th character already, most if not everything has already been mentioned about Mr. Game & Watch and we need to move on before we get one more person who fails to read the first paragraph of this guide that specifically states we won't worry about numbers until the end...

I'll see if I'm able to get a good analysis on G&W in my head and then, hopefully, into the document by today. If not, well, there's never a rush, is there?

I'm sorry Light, I'm just angry at how people think that G&W has a huge advantage. I question if he even does have an advantage, it could be a neutral matchup but I'm not gonig to worry about that, what matters to me is how I can win.

Kinzer said:

I'm sorry Light, I'm just angry at how people think that G&W has a huge advantage. I question if he even does have an advantage, it could be a neutral matchup but I'm not gonig to worry about that, what matters to me is how I can win.

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Ah, don't worry about people thinking it's an advantage for Game and Watch or anything. Part of playing Ike is that you have to deal with plenty of people who are convinced that they have a 7-3 advantage on you, if not more. The "how do I win" is so much more useful than "I think I have a 56.43452% chance of winning this match, unless he counterpicks stage X, in which case it's blah blah blah" thing. That's not to say that Ike doesn't have disadvantageous match-ups, he quite does. But you shouldn't brood over those things, you know?

Yea, this thread plus the stage discussion I made I believe should let Ike's effective brawl every character exploiting the stages to their advantage as well.

Oh that reminds me, Light, do you think when you get the chance you could do something like a description for Ike, We can call him "Character Zero". This would probably give new Ikes and idea of what type of character he is in general.

Kinzer said:

Oh that reminds me, Light, do you think when you get the chance you could do something like a description for Ike, We can call him "Character Zero". This would probably give new Ikes and idea of what type of character he is in general.

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Uh... I don't get it... xD

Care to elaborate?

I mean like do the same format for Ike, give him stars based on what he deserves, mention how he is probably one of the fastest "heavy" characters, how he is more of a strategic character than just a brute powerhouse, etc.

He wants to to a detailed analysis on Ike the same way we did on these guys.

If Light is too busy do it, then I'll be able to do it. I'm a heavy analyzing person by heart.

HeroMystic said:

If Light is too busy do it, then I'll be able to do it. I'm a heavy analyzing person by heart.

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Yeah it was just a suggestion, I don't really mind if he takes it or not, being that if you main Ike you should probably already know how to play him or something...just something to consider.

I'll see what I can think up for Ike, if I work diligently I may be able to have both G&W and Ike up by tomorrow, G&W is still a possibility for today, actually.

The main thing is forcing myself to choose just one Ike picture, there's so many awesome ones.

I suggest one that shows Ike with his awesome Pl-l1R3!

You know, I'll even save you the trouble of having to find it, wather you decide if it's good or not is up to you, but come back to this edited post to see it.

Here it is.



I know it doesn't have the fire but it's a very clean and well-done drawing if I do say so myself.

That sprite looks a little...off, to me.

Personally, if I had to choose a sprite instead of a drawing, I'd probably get either:


or



But there's time to decide that later, no?

Those look like they were probably done by the same person who made the one I linked...except it has his original color scheme... You do what you want to do Light, it's your guide after all.

... >_>

I'd prefer if you just go with this one if you had to use official artwork... http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c161/RedMage_/Ike_Fight.jpg?t=1223359478

Hmm, I think it may be cooler if we use a picture of him from Radiant Dawn... xD In his Vanguard upgrade outfit....

Colaya, while that would be a nice thing to do, the problem is some people have Brawl and will most likely have not played some of the characters' games, I'm pretty sure most Americans will probably have not have played any Earthbound or Mother games, for example. It probably wouldn't be too much of a difference to say somebody out there has yet to play PoR or RD *cough cough*.

Kinzer said:

Colaya, while that would be a nice thing to do, the problem is some people have Brawl and will most likely have not played some of the characters' games, I'm pretty sure most Americans will probably have not have played any Earthbound or Mother games, for example. It probably wouldn't be too much of a difference to say somebody out there has yet to play PoR or RD *cough cough*.

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So? o-o

Probably 90% of Marth mains haven't played any of his games... What are you tryin to say? ^_^;;