Ike : A Detailed Matchup Guide; #33 - Ness

[YagamiLight]

hi

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5489035

Well, that was pretty direct, haha.

On a side note, Pit is written and up, Game and Watch is here as promised. And, as promised, the Pit write-up contains a special something in it.

 

[HeroMystic]

Guys, please communicate with the Marth boards on this one. I'm inclined to believe they are -very- good with Match-Up discussions after the Mario vs Marth match-up discussion.

Light, you may want to take notes too. We didn't exactly have a lot of Marths during our discussion.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

hi

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5489035

And again, we have Marth mains who just cannot accept that Ike has a chance against Marth.

 

[Steel]

And again, we have Marth mains who just cannot accept that Ike has a chance against Marth.

Of course he has a chance, not any better than 65:35 though. Marth boards don't just talk out of their *****, we know our ****. Feel free to try and change our mind, we like to communicate with others and settle on a ratio.

 

[MysticKenji]

G&W...
1. He's got a great air game, but it lacks Ike's range. (Which is pretty much all it lacks)
2. D-throw can be teched (:D)
3. He's light
4. He's got good edgeguarding
5. Turtle is too good.
6. I think he kills you only slightly later than you kill him, due to his power. Not really sure...

 

[AndrewCarlson]

Of course he has a chance, not any better than 65:35 though. Marth boards don't just talk out of their *****, we know our ****. Feel free to try and change our mind, we like to communicate with others and settle on a ratio.

I'm not an Ike main, so I can't offer any insight other than my experiences with Ike as Marth.

 

[•Col•]

Hey, I just thought that maybe you should change the pic of Pit on the front page to this one:

EDIT:

Spoiler

Also, pretty much the only reason I'm not switching my MAIN main to Marth is because most of the people on his board are a bunch of ******... :D

 

[YagamiLight]

Hey, I just thought that maybe you should change the pic of Pit on the front page to this one:

You bloody genius.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Ike vs G&W is 35/65 in favor of G&W.

Basically, Ike can't approach G&W much without getting punished. G&W is also very good at juggling with his U-air, N-air, and Up-B, which Ike doesn't really have any answers to. The main thing about this matchup that gives Ike a small fighting chance is his Jab, which allows him to rack on damage to G&W when he does manage to get inside G&W's range.

 

[comboking]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178906&page=4 i started one of these u can use the info but give me credit

 

[XACE-K]

Marth boards like to directly communicate with the other boards in the thread so that both boards agree.

In that case, I guess I'll help. For G&W now,

-U-tilt, U-air, and Aether are good ways to stop G&W's D-air.

-Most G&W's will d-throw to d-smash. D-smash is also G&W's best kill move if it sends Ike horizontally.

-Turtle is a pain in the a**.

- The trampoline for his Up-B can also help you recover.

- His U-air can kill on stages with low ceilings.

 

[A2ZOMG]

-U-tilt, U-air, and Aether are good ways to stop G&W's D-air.

G&W uses his D-air more to punish your ending lag than as an approach.

Most G&W's will d-throw to d-smash. D-smash is also G&W's best kill move if it sends Ike horizontally.

It doesn't work on Ike, so G&Ws will actually U-throw Ike instead for an opportunity to juggle him.

- The trampoline for his Up-B can also help you recover.

How? G&W only uses his Up-B to juggle you or sometimes when you are way off stage near the blastzone in order to kill you.

 

[Kirk]

Lets see...

Ike can Fair...and Jab...

50/50!!

At least, there's no way in hell it is 65/35.

It's true I'll have you know...if you disagree then you are misinformed.

 

[A2ZOMG]

It doesn't matter that he can F-air and Jab. He can't control the matchup flow because G&W has more escape options. Once G&W gets in some hits, he has the positional advantage and he has all the tools he needs to keep Ike in a bad position.

As I've pointed out, Ike can't approach G&W very reliably. While approaching Ike isn't necessarily G&W's best option, it's not very easy for Ike to get around G&W's B-air because most of his attacks with better range are too slow.

I will point out that most G&W players get VERY lazy with spacing. You might be a good Ike player, but there aren't as many competent G&W players. I'll prove this by saying I second Ganondorf, and I can beat the average G&W easily. Despite me knowing that Ganon CLEARLY loses the matchup.

 

[Kinzer]

Hmm...we didn't seem to get too much insight for the Pit matchup, probably doesn't help tjhat few to none of us have any experience with the boy from heaven, and we didn't get any people maining him to help...You know, I'm sure if we go troll their boards and say Ike is at an advantage at 80-20, that should get some angry Pit's to start coming over here and defend his rightful place.

But seriously...

Anyway...as more Game & Watch, he's a freaking nightmare if I play Sonic, and it's not much easier when I counterpick with my Ike.

The guy has a freaking turtle that can eat your shield for "DINNER", however I found it to work very well if I saved as much of my shield as I could to just shield the whole Bair and punish accordingly after the turtle gave out (Ah Hell, the only way to punish this would be to have a full shield [recommanded], and do a grab or jabs, there's too few frames to punish G&W unless you do the two stated, light characters are light...and fast!)

Why wasn't Mr. Game & Watch the main character for Kingdom Hearts? I mean afterall the ******* has a dang Key...Blade (just a pretty good Down Aerial). I find this move hard to punish because G&W can sort of "distort" his falling speed with it to mix it up, I think he can cancel it like sonic can cancel the lag from his Dair if done at the right height, but not only is G&W's Dair Similar to Sonic's, but it also has hitboxes going both ways upon landing!

Don't let G&W grab you, whatever you do, the guy has a great tech chasing game if he D-throws you. He will do a few things according to what you do.

He can: try and see if you will just get back up or do a "wake-up" attack from being down and if that's the case, he will just shield through that and hit you with Dsmash or Dtilt, which dear God both have too much power. If you try and roll to a side he will meet you there and do what he pleases. I repeat, DO NOT GET GRABBED, THIS IS A HORRIBLE POSITION TO BE IN!!!

I'm going to leave it in the hands of somebody else to mention Ike's aerial game compared to G&W's, just because I think there's too much to cover in this field in particular.

G&W's smashes I think...I can't believe I'm saying this, but can MATCH yours in terms of power, That mother f'er's Fsmash has killed my Ike at somewhere at 80-100%, this is WITH GOOD DI if you are skeptical.

Uhm one more point I want to take care of, please don't let G&W get you up against a wall. I picked Corneria just to try it out with G&W, and although I tried my hardest to do the infinite on G&W, i could only hold him in for a little while before he could get out of it, not only that, but if he got ME up against the wall, he would dtilt me in place, and no matter how hard I did to DI up and away and mash Aether/double jump, I COULD NOT GET OUT!

H'oh God, how can something as seemingly harmless as a 2D character be so cruel...

 

[•Col•]

Hmm...we didn't seem to get too much insight for the Pit matchup, probably doesn't help tjhat few to none of us have any experience with the boy from heaven, and we didn't get any people maining him to help...You know, I'm sure if we go troll their boards and say Ike is at an advantage at 80-20, that should get some angry Pit's to start coming over here and defend his rightful place.

But seriously...

Lol, well Pit was/is one of my mains... >_> I just didn't really end up posting much cuz I'm probably wrong on most stuff anyway... xD

Plus, I don't really have any other Ike's to put my Pit against... So I dunno it that much besides the Pit's I've faced with my Ike...

 

[A2ZOMG]

Anyway...as more Game & Watch, he's a freaking nightmare if I play Sonic, and it's not much easier when I counterpick with my Ike.

Hey, haven't I played you online? We should play some more sometime.

Don't let G&W grab you, whatever you do, the guy has a great tech chasing game if he D-throws you. He will do a few things according to what you do.

I'm just going to point out that UNLESS the character G&W is D-throwing is lightweight, he will usually U-throw you. Although on wifi it's a different story.

G&W's smashes I think...I can't believe I'm saying this, but can MATCH yours in terms of power, That mother f'er's Fsmash has killed my Ike at somewhere at 80-100%, this is WITH GOOD DI if you are skeptical.

Yeah, G&W has also like the third strongest Up-smash in the entire game, which only has 10 frames of ending lag, and has an instant charge release. That one is extremely deadly, and I think his head is invincible while the hitbox is out.

 

[Kinzer]

If we did wifi-battles, it wouldn't be anytime too soon, Las Vegas at the moment as a bad thunderstorm and I don't want to find out how that would affect the Brawl, not to mention I'm going to be busy with a helluva lot of stuff in life, pertaining to school work mostly.

 

[Ussi]

eh... Ike/G&W is 50/50 I stand with Kirk on this. It's just my experience. I only abused my range thats about it.G&W has a weakness to range, so it works. Prefect spacing lets you deal with G&W. Since G&W can only use side aerials and not Dair (usually) therefore you can always be ready to fair/counter. You kill G&W at 80%(With our NORMAL kill moves) but he kills you at 100% (80% with usmash) If you're gonna be spacing properly you shouldn't get hit by the non sweetspot dsmash. Never rush in there, always walk to G&W to be ready to ftilt/fair/counter. G&W has lingering hitboxes. Meaning if you can avoid the hit, you have time to punish it. About all I'll say.



Oh and about ZZS, I played Snakeee, and well I keep my opinon on a 6/4 in ZZS's favor. It's not really hard to win.

 

[Kinzer]

Eh let's not worry about numbers until later.

 

[HeroMystic]

Agreed. Learn to win, not how difficult it is to win.

 

[metroid1117]

A2ZOMG, I laughed at your sig.

I agree with Kirk + Ussi (mad props for beating Snakeee's ZSS, I can never deal with ZSS's in general for some reason), if you space you will win. Because of his weight and range, it's as simple as that. G&W cannot outrange you in the air, so make good use of FAir to block out his FAir and BAir. If you tipper his shield with FAir, he's not fast enough to rush in for a grab; your jab and FAir's IASA frames will ensure this. G&W is difficult to intercept, but that shouldn't be too big of an issue because you'll be killing him early anyway.

When G&W can get in, however, he can do some nasty things to you. DThrow sets up for a plethora of punishment; a missed tech can mean a DTilt at lower %s or a DSmash at higher %s, a tech in place leads to another grab, a tech away means another grab, and a tech behind can just lead to a pivot grab or DSmash. NAir is a fantastic damage builder and BAir absolutely destroys shields; unless you powershield it, you better be prepared to not shield for a while. His smashes are also quite good; FSmash's hitbox stays out for a relatively long time and is pretty powerful, DSmash has to be sweetspotted but is also pretty powerful, and USmash is simply ridiculous; it's even more powerful than your USmash. A common G&W tactic is to DAir into a DSmash; you can get around that by Aether'ing them out of DAir. Beware of becoming predictable with this, however, because you WILL get punished if you miss.

 

[A2ZOMG]

eh... Ike/G&W is 50/50 I stand with Kirk on this. It's just my experience. I only abused my range thats about it.G&W has a weakness to range, so it works. Prefect spacing lets you deal with G&W. Since G&W can only use side aerials and not Dair (usually) therefore you can always be ready to fair/counter. You kill G&W at 80%(With our NORMAL kill moves) but he kills you at 100% (80% with usmash) If you're gonna be spacing properly you shouldn't get hit by the non sweetspot dsmash. Never rush in there, always walk to G&W to be ready to ftilt/fair/counter. G&W has lingering hitboxes. Meaning if you can avoid the hit, you have time to punish it. About all I'll say.

Getting inside Ike's range isn't nearly as hard as you're implying. Marth, MK, and Wario for example are characters with less range than Ike but can still get in and punish him. G&W himself has less range than DK, Ganon, and MK, but has the advantage against the former two, and goes close to even with the last.

G&W himself has pretty good mobility, and you can't really afford to take a hit when you consider G&W's juggling potential. It's not like the only thing he's going to do is B-air anyway, and if you're in a corner, your options are even more limited to either counter or PERFECTLY timing a F-tilt, the former which can be grabbed and U-thrown, and the last one is slow.

On an approach basis, neither really likes approaching the other. Ike HATES approaching. For G&W, it's less than optimal for him to do that, but he can get in. And the key here is when Ike gets a hit, his main option is pretty much run away, or predict a badly timed air dodge. When G&W gets a hit in, he has MANY more follow up options.

I'm going to point out again that the average G&W is not a very good player and gets extremely lazy with spacing. And Kirk is an amazing Ike player. I haven't seen you play Ike, but I don't think it's hard to find out that most G&W players aren't that good and represent him poorly. I myself main G&W, Mario, and second Ganon. I can usually beat most other G&Ws with Ganon, simply taking advantage of the fact most of them are SOO BAD AT SPACING.

 

[Kinzer]

Yeah, I don't really find it fair how a Sword that has been given holy strength can't compete with a freaking scubba-diving helmet, but that's Brawl for you...

Anyway it should be noted that just because the freaking turtle is probably one of the best d*** aerials that G&W probably will switch it up with empty hops or Fairs to fake you out or something. At least if G&W isn't facing away from you you can expect less danger.

Counter can be great for G&W's Dair and whatnot, he pauses a little bit, heck it would just be easier to say it's easy to catch on to him when he is Dairing. By the time he comes down on top of you the counter frames will be at the ready. Why didn't I think of this before?!

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, G&W's Fsmash has a lignering hitbox for like a second or two, probably don't want to Ftilt if he happens to miss you because I'm not sure if that will clank or not, and his Fsmash has to little ending lag to really punish with your own Fsmash if you haven't already started to swing with it.

Although this is highly unlikely to used if you're playing Ike, but you should know that G&W's Down-B can be used to somewhat slow down his fall speed? I'm just saying that if you do something like charge up a Usmash and he sees this coming...well, as I said, you might not even have to worry about it, but it's still a good idea to consider all things. It's up to you to be creative and come up with what he can do with this...

I think that about sum's up Mr. Game and Watch's moveset wise (Well, what I've just said now in this post and what has already been mentioned before. At least with Mr. Game and watch, he is as basic as his design, but this can be very misleading.), now I think we just have to find a good place to counterpick the little man, and beat him mercilessly so that we can make Mrs. Game and Watch a Widow...sorry, but I just don't really like this character, I would much rather fight MK any day.

 

[Kirk]

I mainly have my opinion from tournament experience...I've fought 1-2 exceptional G&W's. I went 3-2 one and 1-2 vs. another(got counterpicked at Jungle Japes...and I HATE Jungle Japes :o ) These were finals and semi-finals respectively...not that it really matters...the point is they didn't suck.

Pretty much just abused my range...yes, I KNOW how it is very hard against a G&W with good spacing...very hard to approach and yada yada. Same goes the other way...maybe I'll get more specific later(just woke up : )...but I still believe in a reasonably even matchup.

 

[Hoser]

Hmm, I don't really have a good opinion against Game and Watch. I just started using him recently, but not enough to know him good enough. From my limited experience though, I'd say it's a neutral match-up.

Lemme mess around with GaW and watch some replays, and I'll add my two cents.

*goes to watch my victories against A2ZOMG*

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

half of the pictures used are like model poses lol.

I'll type something out with G&W might have already been said but it's going to be what I got from my matches with fuiriousduffman.

 

[Ussi]

metroid i didn't technically "win" but I got really close. (To the last stock for the last two [out of four {All we had time for }]) Although I did ugly in every single match (I suicided in every match [freaking nair of the ledge ~_~ {Hate yoshi's island} and aether going the wrong way -_-), and one I was actually leading ~_~) We wanted to brawl more for a better match but the tourney took to long and I was recording the finals ~_~ (I think I'll load the last two of Me vs Snakeee just so other Ike's have footage to see what to do, but yea) [So atm, I didn't beat Snakeee, yet..]

Oh yea I met Rykoshet yesterday at the tourney ;O All we did was have a FFA of 3 ikes and a Captain Falcon o_o...Although I think we should team up and do a two ike team at a tourney. (Cause that is soo much fun to do)


About G&W, I mentioned this, G&W has lingering hitboxes, that is his difference between Marth, MK and Wario. They all lack that. Since G&W has linger hitboxes, a mind game can leave G&W open much more easily compared to Marth, MK, and Wario. Because G&W has a higher chance of being left open, he has a higher chance of being punished, and since he's a feather weight, he dies by 80% by our 4 normal kill moves. G&W kills the fastest at 80% with usmash but if Ike can avoid that he'll survive longer than G&W in percents. It'll take about 6-8 jab combos only to get G&W to killing percent. so therefore 6-8 hits to get you to killing percent.

Oh yea ftilt > G&W's 2nd fsmash hitbox. They don't clank.

And the G&W picture is from the Zelda's match up thread for G&W. (Well they had it first)

 

[•Col•]

Counter can be great for G&W's Dair and whatnot, he pauses a little bit, heck it would just be easier to say it's easy to catch on to him when he is Dairing. By the time he comes down on top of you the counter frames will be at the ready. Why didn't I think of this before?!

Wouldn't it be better to just short hop an uair? Or is there not enough time to do that?

 

[Ussi]

Not enough time Colaya, G&W's dair goes down to fast. We are not fast, so our best bet is to use counter, aether, or a GTFO of the way tactic. G&W's dair can go left/right though.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Hm......well, if you see G&W has his back to you, expect the turtle, and try to counter it with either counter or eruption. If most G&Ws are truly as lazy as said, you should be able to pull off either one of those. Nair is a nasty damage racker that has a slight sucking in effect to it. Fair is strongest during it's first hit, and fairly weak during the lingering hit boxes. Dair........I'll have to try out that countering theory. If it works, it will basically render it useless. If he's below you, don't jump. Thats just asking for an embarrassing star KO visa the wind.

His recovery is annoyingly good. Invincibility frames at the start IIRC, and able to attack out of it. Thankfully, thats his only option, and it has a predictable path.

Usmash is defiantly strong, and Hyphening it will only make it more deadly, taking away it's horizontal range issue. Maybe jabbing will clank/beat it? It would need testing. Fsmash has those annoying lingering hitboxes, but ftilt will beat those out. If G&W Fsmashes at high %, he's asking to be killed. Dsmash can spike if it hits at the right place, so watch out for that when aethering back up: it may be possible to spike you out of aether at it's peak if you're too high up on the stage. It's also amazingly fast for such a strong move.

His Ftilt........I don't know if you will ever see this move in a match. I'm fairly sure Fsmash beats it in almost every way. Dtilt is a great shield poker, IASA frames IIRC, and by the sounds of things, VERY painful if he gets you against a wall. Utilt isn't neally as strong as his Usmash, but has more horizontal range, and may be able to juggle you at low %s. It too, would need testing. Neutral A probably won't be used much. Might be painful against a wall like Dtilt though. Dash attack is fairly strong, if a tad laggy at the end.

His throws.........ugh. Dthrow is just painful for tech chasing. Uthrow leads to stronger hits at low %s. Fthrow and Bthrow have some nice knockback to them.

NB, while not good as a projectile, makes a fairly nice wall. It goes out in sets of 5, so after the 5th one, you have an opening. Probably won't be used, but I can see it being used in the air to discourage Ike from getting at him. Side B is more of a Hail Mary attack then anything. Just shield if you see it come out, and don't get hit by an 9. DB won't be used in this match.

If he gets you off the stage, I'm fairly sure it would only take a Bair to screw you over. By that time, you would have fairly high damage, and the knockback on it by then, if it wasn't too depleted, would spell disaster for you. And it has a long lasting hitbox to boot. >_< Maybe try for a counter stage spike?

For stages: BF or Lylat Cruise for neutral. G&W can't do much with platforms besides Uair or a full hopped Turtle. Lylat Cruise's tilting can screw over his recovery. For Counter Pick.........good old Pirate Ship sounds best.

 

[Royta]

I'm gonna put 2 posts here, one of myself and one from a buddy who doesn't feel like typing in English (so I have to translate <_<).

From my (ike) point of view, G&W is doable, but still a dissadvantage for ike :/

Spacing is in my experience a lot harder to do then against other characters, mainly because all of his moves have good range, good aerial controle and his moves have a lasting hitbox even AFTER the attack is done. Especially that last thing hurts ike, shieldgrabbing G&W is very hard to do with al those lasting hitboxes knocking you away.
This entire match is about killing G&W before he turns you in his little pet dog (PUPPIES :D!).

One move in particular you should watch out for is Downsmash, if sweetspotted this will send you in the angle where Ike can't recover from (horizontal under the stage), this can happen as early as 40-50% making it a VERY dangerous move.
Furthermore G&W's downthrow is a semi-tech-chase-grab (long live the - ;p), but this won't to big of a problem since his grab range is VERY short.

Now what does Ike have going against him? Aether destroys his Key(downAir) as does your Upair and Uptilt if spaced right (upair if you are slightly to his left or right and uptilt...well..it worked sometimes and sometimes it doesnt). Shielding this move is no use, spotdodge, run away, roll, or counter attack it.
It has 2 hitframes, the key itself and the landing on the ground hit.
Some other things to mention is that the main kill move of G&W is the Fair (good priorty, watch it..) and ..well all his smashes. Upsmash kills near 80% uncharged, but has long lag. Fsmash is good damage and kills around 120% and I already told you about Downsmash ;p

Judge (->B) well...can't say anything about it, it's kinda a chance move (like the move emplies).

What IS annoying as hell is his 'poof me let you fly =D' moves, his Uair and UpB. Both (if close enough) send you up again. If you are caught in these the only thing you can do is go to the edge (even aether can be pushed back up with that thing..).

On our side we got Fair, spacing is harder here but if done right, it'll hammer in a nice 60-80% damage. Jabs are a big weakness to G&W. Also again, G&W hates Aether. And Fsmash is (well atleast I found that..) easy to hit on G&W during his recovery and after recovering from certain moves. not something to rely on, but mindgaming him into one is easier then other Top Tier characters imo.

Well that's my 5 cents, i'll start that translation now of his piece ;p

Latah

 

[JST]

For stages: BF or Lylat Cruise for neutral. G&W can't do much with platforms besides Uair or a full hopped Turtle. Lylat Cruise's tilting can screw over his recovery. For Counter Pick.........good old Pirate Ship sounds best.

You DON'T want platforms with G&W. Nair through platforms is unstoppable, racks up huge damage, and further discourages you from being above G&W, as is Uair wasn't enough.

Speaking of Uair, it puts Ike in a very, very, very bad position. Ike's options at this point are limited as G&W's windbox outranges Ike's attacks obscenely.

 

[Ussi]

Basically we wait till you let us down from uair, but I believe you can air dodge thru. platforms nair can be problematic but if we can run of the platform in time, we can bair you. Ike has platform advantages too if G&W is above Ike. A simply timed fsmash can hit G&W landing on a platform and usmash and utilt will hit thru platforms and Ike's aerials just are made to hit thru platforms (Fair will hit below a platform, although I doubt G&W is tall enough to be affected by that aspect)

 

[Royta]

Airdodge does not work, simply lets you hover in airdodge animation;p

Translation of my G&W buddy named Kaak*:

Try and avoid aerial combat, since G&W outmatches you in almost everyway (except the spaced Fair).
When recovering, try and place a counter in the recovery to save you from certain death. G&W has a great air game and will easily **** you if you need QD to recover or need to time your jumps right to make it. Use counter to prevent this.
Also he, as a person, HATES Aether and it works pretty well against him might I add myself ;p

Also, learn to know when you can shieldgrab. Since most of his aerials have hitboxes even after the initial hit. Knowing when the damage frames are over from each attack is VITAL information.

Credit to Kaak*

 

[•Col•]

Not enough time Colaya, G&W's dair goes down to fast. We are not fast, so our best bet is to use counter, aether, or a GTFO of the way tactic. G&W's dair can go left/right though.

Of course.... -___-;; Once again, I prove my stupidity... :D


Good news though-- I'm visiting home this week, and I'm going to try and convince my brother to let me bring the Wii back to college with me... xP Finally, I'll be able to play Brawl again....

 

[A2ZOMG]

*goes to watch my victories against A2ZOMG*

*online johns*

Besides, I suck with G&W. =O

 

[Kinzer]

Does Distant Planet/Delfino Plaza work as counterpick CP stages for G&W, anybody else agree/disagree?

And Ussi, thanks for confirming to me that Ftilt will go right through G&W's 2nd Fsmash hitbix, this is very good to know.

 

[metroid1117]

Does Distant Planet/Delfino Plaza work as counterpick CP stages for G&W, anybody else agree/disagree?

Isn't Distant Planet banned in most tournies? I don't know that stage too well, so I'd rather not give an opinion.

I'm not too sure about Delfino, I can see where you're getting at with the water -> spike, but the rest of the time the stage is a giant moving platform; G&W's amazing vertical recovery can really be an asset here, and the fact that he can attack out of it doesn't make it any easier. Ike's QD recovery is also extremely dangerous on Delfino, you can't even edgehop QD because of the stage. In my opinion it would be neutral.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The key to counterpicking against G&W is not to pick a stage that he's disadvantaged on, but one that works to your advantages.

G&W doesn't have any really glaring weaknesses when it comes to stages.

on distant planet, he can Up-B and N-air through the center platform, which is gay. Chef is really gay to work around on the left side of the stage.

Delphino, he has D-tilt locks against walls and he can Up-B through the middle platform.

Jungle Japes might legitimately be his worst stage, but only because he doesn't have many specific advantages on it. Otherwise, nothing on this stage really hinders him. The question is how does this stage work for Ike?

Personally, I'd suggest going FD against G&W. There are no platforms, which means it's not as easy for him to juggle. Ike doesn't like platforms anyway.