Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

I'd say call it 50:50. Sonic runs **** on the ground, Jiggs runs **** in the air. Sonic won't get the vertical KO because Jiggs will do her best to have that in check, and Jiggs won't get the horizontal KO because Sonic should have that in check. 50:50.

Edit: didn't we do Lucario already?

Marko, Lucario is on the contrary, last to be discussed. Take a look at the first post... he's dead last.

Also I guess I can call it neutral, I have little problems with that... anybody else have any quick facts to say?

ahh... i definitely remember discussing that matchup on the boards tho. guess they came here.

so TL is next. I haven't played a good TL in a very long time, so I'll be a lurker for this one.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=179463

The Metaknights are doing Sonic. Please contribute. Don't be too offensive.

Gf2tw said:

EDIT: I think everyone should have a different banned-A1 pokemon, that's how we can recognize people. I know for one Malcolm is Shelder, I'm Grimer, Chis is Victreebel and the rest is all fake Haunters. You didn't deserve + A1 + ban yet. Most of you never been banned :O

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I can't make pics for crap. If someone would be kind enough to throw me a Meowth I'd be happy to switch.

lol the only real haunters are Me, ROOOOY!, Tenki and KID.

Cam a little later on...

I want to be a Ho-Oh. heheheh

...

I'll do them late friday when I get time.

MarKO X said:

I'd say call it 50:50. Sonic runs **** on the ground, Jiggs runs **** in the air. Sonic won't get the vertical KO because Jiggs will do her best to have that in check, and Jiggs won't get the horizontal KO because Sonic should have that in check. 50:50.

Edit: didn't we do Lucario already?

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I had it at this but I edited it to Jigglypuff's favor based on the fact that he said there was a major advantage if you can use rest well, but since it really isn't being used at tournaments effectively on Sonic, I agree.

djbrowny said:

Point 1-Disjointed hitboxes are near impossible to determine. you cant assume sonic has no disjoints on any attack until you prove it against my hitbox pictures. Im serious, dont even bother unless you have 100% undeniable proof of it.
Point 2-fsmash moves sonic BACKWARDS not forwards. he can actually charge an fsmash to dodge a pikachu fsmash, then let it go to hit him. moving forwards in the case of say, kirbys fsmash seems more reasonable if you were to rest it
Point 3-there is no way you're going to be resting during usmash.

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Point 1: um, clearly not disjointed enough.

Point 2: He leans back and then his body moves forward. Duh. You can't interrupt it grounded but you sure can from the air. Kirby's f-smash can be rested... its just really hard.

Point 3: Not an interrupt, a perfect rest (rest such that the invincibility frames prevent the attack from hitting).


I'll put up video for this... when I feel like it. Soon though, since I know you're all understandably skeptical.

da K.I.D. said:

yo, veril, i hear your going to BFWNY5

MM sonic v jigglypuff.

get at me. we will figure this shiz out.

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See you there. I'm not an amazing player... That said, I'm down.

Veril, do realize that our U-smash is:
1. Disjointed, as in, it shrinks our hurtbox and it has a disjointed hitbox at times.
2. Has invincy frames just like your rest.
Seriously, I don't think it's very likely for even the best players to be perfect-resting our U-smash consistently. Although, =/ maybe...

aeghrur said:

Veril, do realize that our U-smash is:
2. Has invincy frames just like your rest.

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Wait, it does? I was under the impression that it just makes your hurtbox freakishly small.

Although, =/ maybe...

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I think all that Veril is trying to say is that it's possible. Seeing all the crap that Jiggs can Rest through kind of makes you optimistic.

honestly, resting usmash is just as feasible as getting a zelda d-air spike during one of the jumps on quick attack. even if it is possible, you wont land it more than once per set

Nop. Infzy made a vid on it too... Sonic has like... 1 frame of invincibility on it... enoguh for one of Fox' laser to pass by... LOL!

Oh snap, I'm stealing the next page for the next character.

Is it really Toon Link?

*does TL uptaunt*

no one else is here? do him then

lol TL. 60:40 TLink or 65:35. pick ur poison

Kinzer said:

Nop. Infzy made a vid on it too... Sonic has like... 1 frame of invincibility on it... enoguh for one of Fox' laser to pass by... LOL!

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Heh.... it's more than one frame, but it only lets about two-thirds of a Fox laser through
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=1r9HGU39qXo

Its around 3 to 4 frames. its enough to break bombs on green greens.
I think its during the first and just before the second hit of his usmash that he is invincible.
mabe the second hit too.

Tooooooonlink? helllllllllo? any1 played the matchup? exaaaaaaaaactly what i thought....

Yeah I haven't played any good toon link's outside of wifi.

I'll take a stab at it.
sonic is at a disadvantage, primarily because of the fact that toon link is a character that forces Sonic similarly to the way that Falco does.

his projectiles work not only to force Sonic into approaching, but to limit his options as well.
Coupled with his aerial agility, Toon link can be difficult for sonic to approach and attack

Of course toon link has his weak points, primarily on the killing area as well as possibly in close quarters combat. He doesn't really have a good GTFO move that i can think of without broadcasting it.

I cannot say as to what degree Sonic is at a disadvantage but I am sure he has an issue.
but again I have not played many toon link's so I really am not sure. =\


malcolm you got anything?

I've played a T.Link player at the weekly tourney here and Vegas...

I thought I made a post somewhere, but I guess I'm losing it.

Anyway I don't really think T.Link beats Sonic that bad, though I'm with SL here that Sonic is neither neutral/his advantage/a serious counter.

...Actually... he pretty much summed it up in a TL;DR post. T.Link has projectiles he can control and use to limit your approach options and your close-range tactics as well, but if you can get around that wall and outpredict him, it's very hard for him to get you out, and you'll always be living past 120%.

thecatinthehat said:

lol the only real haunters are Me, ROOOOY!, Tenki and KID.

Cam a little later on...

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Ouch, that hurts.

a fresh bair from TL kills u upwards @ 150. a nair from TL kills u @ 150 a upair from tlink can kill U at somewhere around the 100 mark. his uptilt will kill u @ around the same percent as upsmash...mayb 10% more...but its alot safer on block. his upsmash kills 120ish his Dsmash takes along time to kill his fsmash should never kill u.

I dont think he has killing problems @ all. he has alot of options in the 150 range which isnt an incredibly high % for brawl. i think sonic scoring a kill move in between all of the projectiles and retreating aerials is what makes the matchup so far in TLs favor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgzAS8VIzF0

this is @ like 4 AM like 2 weeks after facing jash and i STILL couldnt figure out a way to play the matchup. I mean eazys TL is very good but wow...like when i watch the match i feel like i played so stupid, but even if i played it smart i wouldnt have done anything significantly better.

It is when you usually get killed 10-20% earlier a lot of the times.

Though I give you props for reminding me that at that %age range, T.Links options to kill become enourmous.

Though correct me if I'm wrong, but won't Sonic and T.Link be able to kill more or less at the same %age range if not Sonic can kill earlier if he's doing it right because T.Link is on the lighter half of the spectrum?

I know always having to constantly deal with that wall, regardless of matchup experience or not, is mad annoying.

MalcolmM said:

Tooooooonlink? helllllllllo? any1 played the matchup? exaaaaaaaaactly what i thought....

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uh, yes i have, multiple times. his name is Lobos. you want me to tell you my thoughts?

its pretty obvious that a character that spams projectiles dont really give sonic issues. the problem is his ability to apply pressure at midrange with his quick, nearly lagless aerials, and use of Zair in between those series. when given time to develop, creates a wall of attacfks that allow TL to move forward or backawrd with ease, and makes him a powerful zoning character.

Nair, Bair, and Zair are incredibly fast and beautiful moves. Bair combos too easily, even with proper DI, because he's coming at you at the same time. Nair is fast, and hits both sides. Zair, gives him a quick midrange semi projectile with little lag and can set up mindgames easily. combined with with his strong aerial mobility TL can zone you while keeping himself relatively safe from the sides. and although not to the extent of snake, TL can mix his jabs up with smashes, especially after a lagless aerial to protect himself and get damage. in short, TL seems best played passive aggressively.

Sonic's ground speed is great to disrupt the projectile spam, and his chance in the matchup depends on whether or not he can disrupt TL spacing and keep it that way. WHEN he does, he can get significant damage from below TL and with throws. the problesm is that it must be done tactfully, and i feel that, a combo of power shielding, spring and spinshot will be used more in an aggressive attempt to dodge projeectiles and apply pressure to a camping TL. the problem is that Links aerial moves, like Nair and bair are so quick and spammable that he will attempt to intercept your assault often with them. know that, then bait/punish with shield cancelled grabs. Under him is the best way to fight an airborn TL, becuase of sonic's mindgames , but the good TLs Diar well.

getting damage was never the hard part, against lobos whenever i played him (not saying it wasn't a challenge) finishing him off was the hardest part. once sonic goes into "time to try and kill you mode, the battle changes for some reason. Link can be gimped but, it usually wont happen, his recovery set is quite balanced. also, the more damgage TL takes, the campier they get. add that to the lack of kill moves and he can rack up % on you quickly. now granted his lack on kill moves are an issue (Fsmash, UpSmash, Uair) too... and he isn't gonna gimp you either, though hell try to spam you into a mistake...

TL's advantage 35:65 - sonic can win if he wins the battle of spacing, but links moveset allow him to regain it at anytime. learning to punish Tink is the hard part, as well as finishing him off. Discourage projectile spam asap, punish his landing spot on aerials... you're gonna have to out manuver him to win...

65:35 against sonic?
Oh boy, another counter. >_<

D***it i just got this amazing idea right now... to bad it won't work because we're so close to completion.

As much as I love people and all, we should've invited them and we wait for their opinions before we gave ours... you know why?

I've noticed how a lot of people like to parrot a bunch of stuff on this forum (example: OS and DTilt... and even though we turned it into a meme, it's ******** when somebody is being serious about it...), now when they come over here and see our summaries, they'll think "ah okay, they're right about this" and by this, I mean stuff like 65:35 matchup ratio... while that might be true to an extent, it only makes it so that less creative people basically just "+1" this idea. It's sad now that I think of how we might've only boasted some peoples' thoughts because they can't think for themselves.

On a side-note, I should have the jigglypuff matchup write-up done sometime soon... like within the next week soon at latest.

ouch. good point. my bad kinzer

Forget about it Malcolm, what's done cannot be undone.

I just hope the T.Link boarders are more reasonable than some of the other character board/ers we've had to deal with...

I never realised that living in the MD VA region, JB actually plays with the really good MD VA people like boss, and lobos, and kadaj and dudes like that, they never talk about you in their tourney threads until now so i guess i just figured that you never play with them, but now i feel dumb for thinking some thing that lame...

until now? lol wut? i thought they didn't talk about me on here at all

some i know better than others. im sure that if you asked around you'd get some answers. I know the JLB members the most though. Godismyrock and Aposl go to the same school as me too. Yoster, Thumbswayup, and i got to know boss and g-reg some too. i prbably played more but im bad with names.

in anycase being the only sonic player amung them, i get discouraged easily sometimes, when i get beasted.

Actually if you guys post in the TL boards asking about the match up, im sure they will kindly give you guys some insight, despite the small amount of mains we got.

You guys didn't know "Kojin the master" is the nickname we gave kojin since brawl came out showing us his skills in brawl!

We haven't made an export yet!?

*goes to work*

EDIT: post for ROY to add:

King Dedede: Page 251 or discussion from post #3571

i was in the Cot4 thread and boss said he wanted to play with you in teams and have the team name be "mario and sonic at the olympic games"

Right hey guys the thread Gf2tw put on our boards didnt work for me so i thought id just come find ya.

I'm not especially an amazing TL but iv had a couple of sets offline with ROOOOY! and will do nxt local fest in which i'll def have more insight into the match up and will ofc help you guys out.

Just couple of pointers nothing special: a good TL can nearly stop anything with a bomb, get close so he cant projectile spam but dont let him hit ya with the sharp pointy thing, be annoying, we WILL mindgame you ^^

As for stages DONT take us to FD if you wanna live never go there with TL you will be spamized, carefull with yoshi's island our dsamsh has a very nice gimp and if you di the wrong way your dead, battlefield is your best bet platforms stop our spam.

but yea annoying us and speed is the key in my opinion.hope i helped

boss and i are doing team MMs with that name but im fairly sure i will b teaming with NL @ CoT4

jaybee imma b in MD TONIGHT so go to i think its actually Deez's tourney since the C3 thread was looking dead. ill c u there =D

i would think FD would be best for this match seeing as we have all that empty space to use to manuever around the projectiles but i dont know

No, believe the man Kid when he says BF is T.Link's worst neutral.

This guy at the tourney here in Vegas played a mean T.Link, I lost the set but the guy was kind enough to tell me what CP I should've made instead of Frigate. Now while Frigate wasn't that bad of a choice, BF's platforms are suppose to get in the way of projectile spam, and he's too short to take advantage of platforms without having to jump or anything like that.

You probably only want to go to Final D if you're confident you can get around his wall more than he can enforce it.

I want to know what CP stages would be good though, in the case that BF is banned though... I'm putting my money down on Delfino Plaza.