TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

tocador · Jul 7, 2009

JOE! said:
unfortunatley, what this broils down to here is, in the fight: who would finish who more often?

Pit can camp all day long, and fox can shoot all day long, butwho do you think is more likley to finish the other off?

based on either mistakes or strategy?

because atm its a 0/0 ratio...

Fox has more chances of finishing pit of that pit has.

While pit NEED's to rely on fox mistake to score a hit, fox can just shoot all day while running arround pit or just trying to find a weak point. I'd say its more likely to fox hit pit then pit hitting fox.

548/462 Fox.

JOE! · Jul 7, 2009

What about Dryn, and SOLID? you guys have opinions on that?

gonna let this ratio be kinda...voted on

smashbot226 · Jul 7, 2009

When you put it like THAT JOE!, Pit is going to win due to his swords in close range, but Fox has technically more skill as a military trained fighter. But Pit is Captain of Heaven, so he isn't a slouch himself. The skill matchup is similar to Ganondorf Vs. Ike, but only ONE fighter has a sword.

Granted, Fox is smarter on the go, and Pit has, arguably, the better close range weaponry. So when the two can just camp all day, it really comes down to if Pit can get close enough to attack Fox.

Also to Dryn's counterpoint:

Superheated plasma? Source that the Blaster fires superheated plasma? Looks like a laser to me.

Yes, the thing is: whatever powers Fox's pistol is likely nonexistent, save for what is left in his gun. Also, the DEFINITION of a laser, or at least the closest kind to Fox's ammo, is a device that emits light (electromagnetic radiation) through a process called stimulated emission. A type of stimulation includes pumping the laser material with a source that is itself pulsed, either through electronic charging in the case of flashlamps, or another laser which is already pulsed.

Plasma, due to its unique aspect of allowing its positive and negative charges to move independently means plasma is highly electrically conductive, thereby responding strongly to electromagnetic fields. Now, recall that lasers are emitted through a stimulated emission, which is, assuming Fox's technology, to be the plasma. The type of stimulation I refer to can include a secondary source which may conduct the plasma into its containment. The plasma conducts electricity at a rapid degree, due to its strong reactions to EM fields, thus heating the laser to a high enough temperature so when it is discharged, it forms into a rod-shaped projectile that burns any object it may touch at a degree equal to the temperature of the projectile.

Now, this is assuming Fox's technology is even SOMEWHAT relevant to our world of physics and chemistry. Asking for the source on such matters is irrelevant when considering this is a battle taking place in the REAL world; not Fox's world.

tocador · Jul 7, 2009

smashbot226 said:
When you put it like THAT JOE!, Pit is going to win due to his swords in close range, but Fox has technically more skill as a military trained fighter. But Pit is Captain of Heaven, so he isn't a slouch himself. The skill matchup is similar to Ganondorf Vs. Ike, but only ONE fighter has a sword.

Granted, Fox is smarter on the go, and Pit has, arguably, the better close range weaponry. So when the two can just camp all day, it really comes down to if Pit can get close enough to attack Fox.

Also to Dryn's counterpoint:

Yes, the thing is: whatever powers Fox's pistol is likely nonexistent, save for what is left in his gun. Also, the DEFINITION of a laser, or at least the closest kind to Fox's ammo, is a device that emits light (electromagnetic radiation) through a process called stimulated emission. A type of stimulation includes pumping the laser material with a source that is itself pulsed, either through electronic charging in the case of flashlamps, or another laser which is already pulsed.

Plasma, due to its unique aspect of allowing its positive and negative charges to move independently means plasma is highly electrically conductive, thereby responding strongly to electromagnetic fields. Now, recall that lasers are emitted through a stimulated emission, which is, assuming Fox's technology, to be the plasma. The type of stimulation I refer to can include a secondary source which may conduct the plasma into its containment. The plasma conducts electricity at a rapid degree, due to its strong reactions to EM fields, thus heating the laser to a high enough temperature so when it is discharged, it forms into a rod-shaped projectile that burns any object it may touch at a degree equal to the temperature of the projectile.

Now, this is assuming Fox's technology is even SOMEWHAT relevant to our world of physics and chemistry. Asking for the source on such matters is irrelevant when considering this is a battle taking place in the REAL world; not Fox's world.

Dude wtf? Im on vacations i dont need science class U.U!

Lets just say that fox weapon does the *pew pew* sound and it hurts okay??

smashbot226 · Jul 8, 2009

LOL. Well, I'm in summer school for chemistry so I'M GOING TO FIND YOU.

Anyway, it doesn't KILL Pit but it DOES burn him.

Sonic on the Rocks · Jul 8, 2009

Darn, I should have checked this earlier. Now I'm lost.
It's come down to Pit camping behind his shield while Fox unloads the Blaster at him, right?

shinato91 · Jul 8, 2009

Is fox allowed to call a LANDMASTA or arwing? because if that's the case then that stupid shield is useless

D3w3y · Jul 8, 2009

tocador said:
The real quote is: "the best defense the ofense" not what you said U.u!

Not only is that not the quote but that is not even English it's just a jumble of mis-spelled words.

So as of now if neither fighter makes a mistake we have a stalemate and by running the fight 1000 times we are trying to eliminate luck and other random factors so I can not pick a winner for this fight.

I'll throw a little Brawl humor in here, the winner will be decided by who is the first to randomly trip

D3w3y · Jul 8, 2009

tocador said:
Fox has more chances of finishing pit of that pit has.

While pit NEED's to rely on fox mistake to score a hit, fox can just shoot all day while running arround pit or just trying to find a weak point. I'd say its more likely to fox hit pit then pit hitting fox.

548/462 Fox.

If Fox shots at Pit's shield all day it is likely that a laser shot will come back and hit him so your argument does not work.

As I said before shot a laser tag gun at a mirror and try to dodge the reflection and get back to me with the results.

tocador · Jul 8, 2009

D3w3y said:
Not only is that not the quote but that is not even English it's just a jumble of mis-spelled words.

So as of now if neither fighter makes a mistake we have a stalemate and by running the fight 1000 times we are trying to eliminate luck and other random factors so I can not pick a winner for this fight.

I'll throw a little Brawl humor in here, the winner will be decided by who is the first to randomly trip

I misspeled it, but the fact is, the real quote is:

"A melhor defesa é o ataque". I mean, this is my language, if you want to know what it means, google it.

And no, fox will have the adv no matter what. Aplying constant pressure with the option of always attacking and the opponent not being able to counter fire you IS SURE NOT EVEN.

tocador · Jul 8, 2009

D3w3y said:
If Fox shots at Pit's shield all day it is likely that a laser shot will come back and hit him so your argument does not work.

As I said before shot a laser tag gun at a mirror and try to dodge the reflection and get back to me with the results.

And you are just to lazy to read the whole discussion arent you? Fox is not dumb, and assuming that, he wont shot the reflector straight forward, and he JUST WONT STAY IN THE SAME PLACE while shooting. Chances are, while circulating pit, he will manage to hit while, while pit need's to pray for one shot to reflect and kill fox.

O yeah, sure, lets shoot straight forward into the reflector! Let's be dumb!

¬L¬

adumbrodeus · Jul 8, 2009

smashbot226 said:
When you put it like THAT JOE!, Pit is going to win due to his swords in close range, but Fox has technically more skill as a military trained fighter. But Pit is Captain of Heaven, so he isn't a slouch himself. The skill matchup is similar to Ganondorf Vs. Ike, but only ONE fighter has a sword.

What swords?

The only reason it was considered was his ability to transform his bow into a sword, and since now metal actually works for the purpose, sword is out for scientific implausibility.

Honestly, the idea of a metal bow is pretty much out right there, but the properties that make something useful as a bow are precisely opposite to the properties that make something useful as a sword. So no.

Yes, the thing is: whatever powers Fox's pistol is likely nonexistent, save for what is left in his gun. Also, the DEFINITION of a laser, or at least the closest kind to Fox's ammo, is a device that emits light (electromagnetic radiation) through a process called stimulated emission. A type of stimulation includes pumping the laser material with a source that is itself pulsed, either through electronic charging in the case of flashlamps, or another laser which is already pulsed.

Plasma, due to its unique aspect of allowing its positive and negative charges to move independently means plasma is highly electrically conductive, thereby responding strongly to electromagnetic fields. Now, recall that lasers are emitted through a stimulated emission, which is, assuming Fox's technology, to be the plasma. The type of stimulation I refer to can include a secondary source which may conduct the plasma into its containment. The plasma conducts electricity at a rapid degree, due to its strong reactions to EM fields, thus heating the laser to a high enough temperature so when it is discharged, it forms into a rod-shaped projectile that burns any object it may touch at a degree equal to the temperature of the projectile.

Now, this is assuming Fox's technology is even SOMEWHAT relevant to our world of physics and chemistry. Asking for the source on such matters is irrelevant when considering this is a battle taking place in the REAL world; not Fox's world.

Pretty accurate description of the process by which Fox's laser should function.

smashbot226 said:
LOL. Well, I'm in summer school for chemistry so I'M GOING TO FIND YOU.

Anyway, it doesn't KILL Pit but it DOES burn him.

Burning DOES kill. The heat just has to be high enough and the location has to be correct.

ShadowPhoenix951 · Jul 8, 2009

tocador said:
And you are just to lazy to read the whole discussion arent you? Fox is not dumb, and assuming that, he wont shot the reflector straight forward, and he JUST WONT STAY IN THE SAME PLACE while shooting. Chances are, while circulating pit, he will manage to hit while, while pit need's to pray for one shot to reflect and kill fox.

O yeah, sure, lets shoot straight forward into the reflector! Let's be dumb!

¬L¬

Who's to say Pit couldn't rotate with the reflector? It's doesn't appear to be a particularly heavy shield since Pit holds it with one arm. So since Pit is rotating to match Fox's movement, it's a stalemate once again.

JOE! · Jul 8, 2009

Why do people give Pit the close range advantage, when Fox can us ehis gun close range? <.<

anywho, im starting to think Toc may have the right ratio, if anything but that fox would have a much easier/more effective way to punish Pit

adumbrodeus · Jul 8, 2009

JOE! said:
Why do people give Pit the close range advantage, when Fox can us ehis gun close range? <.<

Because he has swords....

Except any sword that could convert into a usable bow would be totally useless and vice-versa.

Smooth Criminal · Jul 8, 2009

Tower shields were also held with one arm, too. But they're not exactly light. Judging from the look of Pit's shield, I would have to say it's bigger than your average buckler.

One strategy for Pit is for him to stick the shield into the ground and use it for cover versus Fox's lasers, all the while launching "blindfire" volleys into the sky. When I say "blindfire," I don't necessarily imply launch an arrow up into the sky and pray it hits; I mean Pit could feasibly peer out from behind the shield to estimate trajectory, the biggest advantage Pit's ammo has over Fox's linear laser. Of course Fox would be moving constantly and this is assuming it's a straight-out run...but who is to say that Pit couldn't pick the shield back up and move along with him.

(This is assuming, of course, Pit's shield is large enough.)

Also, since ya'll ruled out Pit's bow turning into dual blades---cheese and rice, people. Have ya'll considered sitting behind a shield a hindrance? Pit cannot physically brandish his shield and his bow at the SAME TIME. It's either one or the other in close range, and if Fox closes in----pewpewpewpewpew and Pit's done for.

I dunno.

Smooth Criminal

zeldspazz · Jul 8, 2009

Guys, we are obviously not going to come to an agreement. We all think differently and this conversation is going nowhere. So lets just call it a stalemate and move on.

500:500

tocador · Jul 8, 2009

zeldspazz said:
Guys, we are obviously not going to come to an agreement. We all think differently and this conversation is going nowhere. So lets just call it a stalemate and move on.

500:500

Whereas PIT defenders want it a Stalemate, Fox defenders feel it is slightly in his advantage.

So just saying "w/e to this MU, lets move one", is preety much like saying "Fox'es people, you lose, we managed to get it even".

So yeah, im not likely going to be happy with a stalemate, when i have prooved fox has a somewhat adv, besides it being small ^^.

zeldspazz · Jul 8, 2009

tocador said:
Whereas PIT defenders want it a Stalemate, Fox defenders feel it is slightly in his advantage.

So just saying "w/e to this MU, lets move one", is preety much like saying "Fox'es people, you lose, we managed to get it even".

So yeah, im not likely going to be happy with a stalemate, when i have prooved fox has a somewhat adv, besides it being small ^^.

Well I'm just tired of both side supporters saying the same thing over and over so if we cant come to an compromise we all agree on then lets call it even. If you read some of the earlier posts, you'd see that some of the Fox AND Pit supporters want to call it even. We are getting no where with this argument so please just let it go

POKE40 · Jul 8, 2009

I'm not going to argue.
Fox.

No johns.

zeldspazz · Jul 8, 2009

POKE40 said:
I'm not going to argue.
Fox.

No johns.

That, I have to admit, made my day....... :chuckle:

I'm done with this MU call it what u like i suppose

tocador · Jul 8, 2009

POKE40 said:
I'm not going to argue.
Fox.

No johns.

This man.... He knows the truths!

QFTW

nightSN · Jul 8, 2009

im going to call it a draw.

Crystanium · Jul 8, 2009

Both sides keep on saying the same thing. Sorry, but ad nauseum is not a valid argument. Here's how it has turned out.

P1: Fox has a Blaster and his Reflector. Pit has his bow and the Mirror Shield.

P2: How can Pit fire at Fox and have his Mirror Shield up?

P1: Pit can have his Mirror Shield lean on him.

P2: How will Pit fire his arrows accurately?

P1: Um, well...

P2: If Pit fired his arrows at Fox, Fox could just use his Reflector.

P1: That's fine. As long as Fox is using his Reflector, he cannot do anything. He is immobile.

P2: Okay, so I guess we'll remove the Reflector and the bow and arrows from this argument.

P1: Wait, Pit can unsnap his bow and use the blades. He can also hide behind his Mirror Shield. Both Fox and Pit have made a change of plans.

P2: Fox can fire at Pit.

P1: Pit can hide behind his Mirror Shield.

P2: Fox can run up to Pit.

P1: Pit can move back if necessary.

P2: Fox can run around Pit.

P1: Fox needs to be at a distance if he wishes to avoid getting shot by his own Blaster. With this in mind, there's a distance between Fox and Pit. Pit likes this, as it is advantageous for him.

P2: But Fox can run up to Pit.

P1: We already discussed that. Even so, if Fox were to run up to Pit, Pit could wait to strike with his blades.

P2: But Fox could shoot close up.

P1: And Pit can stab close up.

P2: Well, Fox can run around Pit and shoot him.

P1: Fox would have to be close to Pit to do that, but Fox puts himself in danger if he does this.

P2: Okay, well Fox doesn't need to approach.

P1: Neither does Pit, and as long as he's behind his Mirror Shield, this isn't getting anywhere.

P2: But Fox can run around Pit.

P1: And Pit can turn or move back. You already said that, by the way.

P2: Yeah, but Fox is faster than Pit.

P1: Both are bipedal and youthful. Why is this even relevant?

And the argument goes on and on, and we repeat the same stuff. So, I'm still sticking with stalemate, because nothing new has been brought up to show why or how one would be more advantageous than the other close up. Close up, both die.

nightSN · Jul 8, 2009

the only slight disadvantage i can see is that fox's lasers could hit him back. the definition of laser:

a device that produces a nearly parallel, nearly monochromatic, and coherent beam of light by exciting atoms to a higher energy level and causing them to radiate their energy in phase.

As i remember light is the fastest thing that man knows of currently, is fox able to dodge his own shots? although it would all depend on the angle of the sheild that would be reflecting it but pit is able to adjust the angle of the shield.

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯ · Jul 8, 2009

tocador said:
Whereas PIT defenders want it a Stalemate, Fox defenders feel it is slightly in his advantage.

So just saying "w/e to this MU, lets move one", is preety much like saying "Fox'es people, you lose, we managed to get it even".

So yeah, im not likely going to be happy with a stalemate, when i have prooved fox has a somewhat adv, besides it being small ^^.

Are there any Pit defenders left?

I'm defending both, but most of you are pro Fox so I'm arguing Pit.

I'm essentially arguing for a stalemate, let's move on.

EDIT: Just read Dryn's post, I agree 1000000%. Let's move on!!!

Another boss battle please JOE!

tocador · Jul 8, 2009

Dryn said:
Both sides keep on saying the same thing. Sorry, but ad nauseum is not a valid argument. Here's how it has turned out.

P1: Fox has a Blaster and his Reflector. Pit has his bow and the Mirror Shield.

P2: How can Pit fire at Fox and have his Mirror Shield up?

P1: Pit can have his Mirror Shield lean on him.

P2: How will Pit fire his arrows accurately?

P1: Um, well...

P2: If Pit fired his arrows at Fox, Fox could just use his Reflector.

P1: That's fine. As long as Fox is using his Reflector, he cannot do anything. He is immobile.

P2: Okay, so I guess we'll remove the Reflector and the bow and arrows from this argument.

P1: Wait, Pit can unsnap his bow and use the blades. He can also hide behind his Mirror Shield. Both Fox and Pit have made a change of plans.

Till here i think is fine ^^.

P2: Fox can fire at Pit.

P1: Pit can hide behind his Mirror Shield.

P2: Fox can run up to Pit.

P1: Pit can move back if necessary.[/QUOTE]

But fox is faster then pit, meaning he will some time get up to pit.

[QUOTEP2: Fox can run around Pit.

P1: Fox needs to be at a distance if he wishes to avoid getting shot by his own Blaster. With this in mind, there's a distance between Fox and Pit. Pit likes this, as it is advantageous for him.[/QUOTE]

So fox will try to get closer, simples as that, fox isnt dumb.

P2: But Fox can run up to Pit.

P1: We already discussed that. Even so, if Fox were to run up to Pit, Pit could wait to strike with his blades.

P2: But Fox could shoot close up.

P1: And Pit can stab close up.

The range from shooting is bigger than stabbing, i think fox will still have the adv at that close. And no, from a real "melee-like" distance the sield would be useless, as just moving your hand to the right will take fox out of shield sight.

And its a dual handed sword pit uses, so this means no shield. So fox will have the adv.

P2: Well, Fox can run around Pit and shoot him.

P1: Fox would have to be close to Pit to do that, but Fox puts himself in danger if he does this.

Pit is in more danger, so this isnt really valid.

P2: Okay, well Fox doesn't need to approach.

P1: Neither does Pit, and as long as he's behind his Mirror Shield, this isn't getting anywhere.

You have a point :D!

P2: But Fox can run around Pit.

P1: And Pit can turn or move back. You already said that, by the way.

P2: Yeah, but Fox is faster than Pit.

P1: Both are bipedal and youthful. Why is this even relevant?

The fact that Fox is a, half-fox/half-humanoid implies he runs faster then a human. Well, i can proove to you that foxes are faster than human, but can you prove to me taht angels run faster than humans?

And the argument goes on and on, and we repeat the same stuff. So, I'm still sticking with stalemate, because nothing new has been brought up to show why or how one would be more advantageous than the other close up. Close up, both die.

Sure, melee tange its a risky battle to both, but at a somewhat melee-ish/range-ish battle fox can kill pit, because HE IS FASTER then him. So as long as the battle stays that way, fox will win.

smashbot226 · Jul 8, 2009

I think its a close one, but give Fox the advantage, roughly 670/325

EDIT: Also, some new matchup suggestions:

Kirby Vs. Wario: Glutton Vs. Glutton!

Game & Watch Vs. R.O.B: Retro Vs. Retro!

Yoshi Vs. Squirtle: Egg-Tosser Vs. Water-Hurler!

Sonic Vs. Power Suit Samus: Speed Vs. Strength!

Ice Climbers Vs. Olimar: Two Eskimos With Hammers Vs. An Astronaut and Hundreds of Pikmin!

Toon Link Vs. Meta Knight: Sea-Farer of Many Talents Vs. The Flying Doom!

Petey Pihrana Vs. Porky: Machine Vs. Monster!

Saki Amiyaki Vs. Gray Fox: Teen Vs. Terror!

Man of Popsicle · Jul 8, 2009

Pistol > Pit

tocador · Jul 8, 2009

smashbot226 said:
I think its a close one, but give Fox the advantage, roughly 670/325

EDIT: Also, some new matchup suggestions:

Kirby Vs. Wario: Glutton Vs. Glutton!

Game & Watch Vs. R.O.B: Retro Vs. Retro!

Yoshi Vs. Squirtle: Egg-Tosser Vs. Water-Hurler!

Sonic Vs. Power Suit Samus: Speed Vs. Strength!

Ice Climbers Vs. Olimar: Two Eskimos With Hammers Vs. An Astronaut and Hundreds of Pikmin!

Toon Link Vs. Meta Knight: Sea-Farer of Many Talents Vs. The Flying Doom!

Petey Pihrana Vs. Porky: Machine Vs. Monster!

Saki Amiyaki Vs. Gray Fox: Teen Vs. Terror!

The both higlighted would be awsome! I would love to see some pikmin ****** those dam climbers! And it dosent need to be pikmin vs them, im preety sure olimar can take anyone with that many of slaves :D

squirtleuser007 · Jul 8, 2009

i have 1 too, already showed joe
ike vs bowser: dragon vs knight!
and on the current topic: can't fox just shoot a hole through pit's wings?

smashbot226 · Jul 8, 2009

Bowser and Ike have already been done in their own separate fights vs. Charizard and Ganondorf, respectively.

Also, regarding my matchup mentality regarding, IMO, the best matchups:

Ice Climbers Vs. Olimar: Well, if it was Olimar Vs. anyone else, except MAYBE Sonic, Olimar would win every single time. Power in numbers can overcome anything en mass. Now, if you had somebody watching your back, it suddenly becomes much more bearable.

The Ice Climbers are hardened hikers with hammers, and the Pikmin are slaves to Olimar, but with no actual skill. It's basically like putting Marcus Fenix and Link together to fight hundreds of thousands of minions.

Suddenly, we get a slaughter-fest, with time being the main role in the fight: could the Ice Climbers fight through wave after wave of Pikmin to defeat Olimar, or will they be worn down to exhaustion by the relentless army?

----------------

Sonic Vs. Power Suit Samus: Two of the most powerful competitors fight it out, each using their ultimate weapon. Samus has her suit of death that will destroy anything she points at, while Sonic has his blazing speed. This suddenly becomes an epic clash of supremes. Who will win, Power or Speed?!?

---------------

Petey Pihrana Vs. Porky: A kid in a spider machine with weaponry only a small demented child could think of, vs. a poisonous, carnivorous psycho monster with the ability to spew toxins... somehow. Anyway, can Petey overcome the Porkster's weaponry through "dirty tactics" or will Porky pull THIS plant from its roots?

---------------

Saki Amiyaki Vs. Gray Fox: This is somewhat similar to Wolf Vs. Snake, except the technological boundaries are considerably closer. Can the young Saki outrun and outgun the Phantasm Assassin, or will Gray Fox gain another notch on his blade?!?

§leepy God · Jul 8, 2009

♪ Less Fox hope and more Pit winning. Pit's a freaken angel, that alone means that he can't die if based on reality. Along with that, Pit has sky advantage if Fox doesn't use his Arwing, and if Fox tries to shoot him down, he will have his mirror shield to reflect the shots that Fox shoot, though I know Fox has a reflector to. Close combat, oh you better believe that duel blades > black leg combat. †

♪ Also is this still going on or are we moving to another character? †

smashbot226 · Jul 8, 2009

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the MAJORITY believe Fox would win due to his greater mobility. Or something like that I dunno.

D3w3y · Jul 8, 2009

Neither Pit or Fox has has a decent argument on why either should have an advantage stalemate was the right choice.

And I like the Kirby vs. Wario one that would be an interesting fight.

§leepy God · Jul 8, 2009

♪ Kirby is a bottomless stomach that never get's full, I don't think Wario eat's a lot but a lot of garlic. T_T †

Darkshadow7827 · Jul 8, 2009

I still believe it's a stalemate. I could care less about a little furry fox and a teenage angel angst fighting it out. I say just pick a winner so we can move on

Edit: A real life kirby would be scary.

zeldspazz · Jul 8, 2009

I think we should do Zelda vs. Peach

Cat fight anyone?

§leepy God · Jul 8, 2009

Darkshadow7827 said:
I still believe it's a stalemate. I could care less about a little furry fox and a teenage angel angst fighting it out. I say just pick a winner so we can move on

Edit: A real life kirby would be scary.

♪ Ha ha, I almost got what you mean. And Kirby would scare me because he eat's people. DX †

zeldspazz said:
I think we should do Zelda vs. Peach

Cat fight anyone?

♪ That would be funny, but it makes sense since their both princesses. †

aceofdiamonds825 · Jul 8, 2009

zeldspazz said:
I think we should do Zelda vs. Peach

Cat fight anyone?

But it wold be all weird cuz zelda's magic would be gone so peach could hit her over the head with a frying pan xD. And on the current topic i think its been found to be a stalemate, joe update please?

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