TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

Smooth Criminal · Aug 7, 2009

What if Mewtwo understood the principles behind friction and applied it to Samus's movement, Adumbrodeus?

XD

Smooth Criminal

Darxmarth23 · Aug 7, 2009

lol

photoshop

adumbrodeus · Aug 7, 2009

Smooth Criminal said:
What if Mewtwo understood the principles behind friction and applied it to Samus's movement, Adumbrodeus?

XD

Smooth Criminal

Pretty much, things like that. Would even require much power or precision. I actually mentioned using it selectively earlier in the match-up.

Memorable_Random_Guy · Aug 7, 2009

adumbrodeus said:
Not really.

We talked about this before actually, as far as telekinesis goes, mewtwo has obviously shown a great deal of precision when it comes to the psi tornado that I referenced to so many times.

Again, controlling air currents is extremely difficult because they're so difficult to understand dynamically (why do you think weather reporting is so inaccurate?).

Again, compare pinching an artery to creating a tornado, we've got the energy resources to do both, but which can humans do?

But, even things like the levitation trick show a great deal more precision then Gorea showed with psionics, even if we assume that those blasts were psionic.

Psywave is an attack.

And we already went over this previosly. Gameplay mechanics are important as my post earlier said, and Gorea's and mother brain's situation is the same as with Mewtwo.

Both were shown to be able to use psionics, and everyone shows a great deal of precision and power when using them:

Mewtwo creates tornadoes.

Mother concentrates her psionic energy as shown when her brain lights up when charging the Hyper Beam and shoots the only concentrated blast capable of crippling a fully upgraded Samus.

And Gorea was powerful enough to send a message through all of the universe, that means EVERYTHING that exists and only a psionic lock as strong as his, made by a civilization of psychics could lock his powers. AND he even showed and ability to create barriers around him that prevented Samus from randomly shooting at him.

But Samus could still harm them, her suit could still resist their attacks, and in mother brain's case, SURVIVE the most powerful psionic blast in the universe.

payasofobia · Aug 7, 2009

adumbrodeus said:
Mew is around the same overall power as mewtwo.

But is there any evidence that either USED psionics against Samus?

Gorea just was shown to be able to do use it to transfer messages, he never showed any offensive psionics or defensive psionics.

Same with Phantoon, the psionics were just to manifest itself and to interact with mother brain.

Gorea's attacks and at least 3 of Mother Brain's attacks.

Ummm, just because the chozo are psionic that doesn't imply that samus is.

Because she was transfered Chozo blood and body parts and that gave her all of their abilities.

Evidence?

She never demonstrated this except with direct interaction with the chozo ghosts, which means that they as the psionic, but doesn't say anything about samus.

See above. She also can transform her own body into energy, like the Chozo. Which would require a whole lot of precision considering you would need to change your composition to molecular levels.

Again, there doesn't seem to be any real indication that the attacks are psionic in nature.

Even if they were, none of the above ever demonstrated the precision that mewtwo has with it, it just seemed to be raw blasts. And the precision is the real killer here.

Sending a message through the whole universe and send them direcly into the most powerful hunter's minds seems pretty pretty precise to me.

Also, concentrating your psychic attacks so you can damage the most powerful power suit in fiction.

Even if you were right here, you're sort of ignoring a very important point, mewtwo's telekinesis is just as big a killer as his telepathy, and samus has NO defense against it unless she's shown telekinetic powers herself.

She has Chozo blood, and they were psychic.

Ummm, no.

I already explained this, it works, up to the point where a contradiction occurs, only in those cases do we ignore actual physics. Otherwise, we have no base to work on whatsoever.

What I mean by that is it's just as logical to assume that everyone in the pokemon universe is a non-copereal entity and is unaffected by all samus' weapons, as an other situation. Any one of an endless array of world physics set-ups would work.

So, we really can't knock out RL, because then we have literally nothing to work with, so it's RL with "a wizard did it" in cases of contradictions.

We just pit them like they are in their games. No need to overthink videogame stuff.

Memorable_Random_Guy · Aug 7, 2009

Memorable_Random_Guy said:
mother brain's case, SURVIVE the most powerful psionic blast in the universe.

Disregard what I said, A fully upgraded Samus can survive 2 of those blasts.

And Mother Brain being a psychic makes much more sense if you consider she has a huge-organic-futuristic-supercomputer with god knows how much exabytes of information.

adumbrodeus · Aug 7, 2009

Memorable_Random_Guy said:
And we already went over this previosly. Gameplay mechanics are important as my post earlier said, and Gorea's and mother brain's situation is the same as with Mewtwo.

So, when a person throws a pokeball, canonically the HUD appears?

Is the backback in the pokemon games actually a computer screen, and the items themselves have no physical presence?

Whenever a battle starts are there random flashes of light? That would have to be really annoying to people sleeping.

What about random constant music?

What do those all have in common? Game mechanics.

They're contradicted as occurring in every other form of Pokemon canon (as is the 4 move limit, and the idea that pokemon are limited to only "attacks" even though trainers use them that way), so why should we consider game mechanics at all?

It's obvious that they're "for the game only" and have no bearing on the game world unless explicitly designated otherwise.

Mother concentrates her psionic energy as shown when her brain lights up when charging the Hyper Beam and shoots the only concentrated blast capable of crippling a fully upgraded Samus.

Ummm, there's no evidence that it's psionic in nature. Regardless, shooting a raw blast of energy is NOT a precision move, it's shooting a blast of energy. There is no fine manipulation.

If there was, mother brain should've won.

And Gorea was powerful enough to send a message through all of the universe, that means EVERYTHING that exists and only a psionic lock as strong as his, made by a civilization of psychics could lock his powers. AND he even showed and ability to create barriers around him that prevented Samus from randomly shooting at him.

There's no evidence that the barriers were psionic in nature.

The only psionic attribute he was confirmed to have is the ability to send messages. So, while he is a very powerful psionic, his power seems incredibly limited as to what he can actually accomplish with it.

But Samus could still harm them, her suit could still resist their attacks, and in mother brain's case, SURVIVE the most powerful psionic blast in the universe.

If you're correct in that, then it's an example of "Did you just punch out Cthulhu?"

I'd certainly argue that without psionics, in the case of Gorea it's a case of "Did you just punch out Cthulhu?" He's obviously an eldritch abomination with powers far surpassing anything samus has shown canonically.

But of course this is a video game, and samus has to prevail, so the .000000000000000000000000000000000001 % chance that she could win happens, and basically a bridge falls on the opponent, therefore samus wins.

If the match-up were canon Gorea vs. canon samus, that would be about the resulting match-up ratio.

edit:

payasofobia said:
We just pit them like they are in their games. No need to overthink videogame stuff.

If we don't think about the implications of their abilities, then our match-up ratio is WAY off.

Fix your formatting...

The actual attacks are not evidenced as being psionic, you're just making that assumption.

There's no evidence she got that specific power.

And where's the evidence the chozo ghosts didn't do it? She's never shown this power in any other situation, and certainly not the ability to control psionics.

If it was activating a latent power, then it's not something she has access to anyway.

It was sent to basically everyone. The most powerful hunters RESPONDED.

Are the attacks psionic?

But again, Gorea vs. Samus = Gorea ***** samus in terms of canonical abilities vs canonical abilities.

Chozo blood=/=is a chozo, she never displayed their psionic abilities independently.

Memorable_Random_Guy · Aug 7, 2009

adumbrodeus said:
So, when a person throws a pokeball, canonically the HUD appears?

Is the backback in the pokemon games actually a computer screen, and the items themselves have no physical presence?

Whenever a battle starts are there random flashes of light? That would have to be really annoying to people sleeping.

What about random constant music?

What do those all have in common? Game mechanics.

They're contradicted as occurring in every other form of Pokemon canon (as is the 4 move limit, and the idea that pokemon are limited to only "attacks" even though trainers use them that way), so why should we consider game mechanics at all?

It's obvious that they're "for the game only" and have no bearing on the game world unless explicitly designated otherwise.

Ummm, there's no evidence that it's psionic in nature. Regardless, shooting a raw blast of energy is NOT a precision move, it's shooting a blast of energy. There is no fine manipulation.

If there was, mother brain should've won.

There's no evidence that the barriers were psionic in nature.

The only psionic attribute he was confirmed to have is the ability to send messages. So, while he is a very powerful psionic, his power seems incredibly limited as to what he can actually accomplish with it.

If you're correct in that, then it's an example of "Did you just punch out Cthulhu?"

I'd certainly argue that without psionics, in the case of Gorea it's a case of "Did you just punch out Cthulhu?" He's obviously an eldritch abomination with powers far surpassing anything samus has shown canonically.

But of course this is a video game, and samus has to prevail, so the .000000000000000000000000000000000001 % chance that she could win happens, and basically a bridge falls on the opponent, therefore samus wins.

If the match-up were canon Gorea vs. canon samus, that would be about the resulting match-up ratio.

1) Use your logic and flexibility of mind, the most unrealistic and ulikely gameplay mechanics are obviously there to facilitate programing and make for a fun experience, while the most likely or constantly refferred to mechanics by the NPC's stay.

2) Mother Brain was referred as having powerful psionic waves in the manual, and she shoots psyhic attacks and her brain glows when shooting her Hyper beam. And because of her physiology, she most likely have FAR more powerful psionics than Mewtwo.

3) He can shoot blasts of psychic energy just like Mewtwo does in his games. Mewtwo and Gorea without speculation have the same abilities, with speculation they could probably do all the stuff you say psionics can do. Both were shown to have precise psionics, and they are pretty much equal in that part. If you say that Gorea can't be speculated upon, then your whole Mewtwo speculation goes down the drain.

4) You are severely understimating the power suit and the skill samus has. She is basicaly a walking evil alien genocide woman. And her power suit usualy has equal or more health than bosses and has some extremely powerful weaponry. Not counting the fact that Samus the most skilled Hunter in the universe.

JOE! · Aug 7, 2009

Pokemon

|

Super Smashes

|

Interactions

|

Strategy

|

Sharpen_APP
Guillotine
Nasty Plot

|

If a foe is Locked-On, Night Slash/Metal Claws/Sucker Punch/Faint Attack all will home in on the targeted foe automatically.
Bisharp can hit Alakazam's spoons like his Metal Claws, which makes them behave just like them until they return to Alakazam.
Alakazam can choose to Teleport into Trick Rooms instead of where he entered the match by pressing Up for the center Trick Room, and Left/Right for other TR's in relation to the center one/center stage.

|Spacing is the name of the game, with Trick Rooms, Teleportation, and Metal flying about like it's going out of style. Well suited for a bait and punish type of playstyle, with some more "actiony" options available with Nasty Plot and Sharpen_App. the three should have no trouble moving about the stage and confounding foes with their various movement tools on both themselves and their projectiles.

payasofobia · Aug 7, 2009

adumbrodeus said:
edit:

If we don't think about the implications of their abilities, then our match-up ratio is WAY off.

Fix your formatting...

The actual attacks are not evidenced as being psionic, you're just making that assumption.

Just like you are making the assumption that a pokemon that has only been shown to shoot blasts of energy in his games and in the show is suddenly god because of psionics.

There's no evidence she got that specific power.

When she transform into a morph-ball, she transforms herself into pure energy, just like the chozo ghosts.

And where's the evidence the chozo ghosts didn't do it? She's never shown this power in any other situation, and certainly not the ability to control psionics.

See above.

If it was activating a latent power, then it's not something she has access to anyway.

See above

It was sent to basically everyone. The most powerful hunters RESPONDED.

Are the attacks psionic?

But again, Gorea vs. Samus = Gorea ***** samus in terms of canonical abilities vs canonical abilities.

Yes they are. He is a being of pure energy, just like the shozo ghosts. And that just shows how powerful the power suit is and how skilled Samus is at using it.

Chozo blood=/=is a chozo, she never displayed their psionic abilities independently.

She does with the use of her power armor, the fact that she can transfor herself into pure enrgy and that the blood gave her all of the chozo abilities, without their abilities wouldn't be able to even use the power suit.

And before you say that the morph ball itself transforms them into energy, take into consideration that all space pirates attempt to replicate it ended up in being crushed because they could not transform into energy.

JOE! · Aug 7, 2009

Pokemon

|

Super Smashes

|

Interactions

|

Strategy

|

Dragon's Rain
Sharpen_APP
Hone Claws

|

Feraligatr can fill Trick Rooms with water, with his specials and smashes generally filling 1/3-1/2 based on charge, and other moves filling 1/4 of the volume. Foes passing through the now filled Trick Rooms will be slowed to 1/2 speed, as well as the water absorbing Energy-Based attacks. The water depletes at a rate of 1/5th of it's max capacity a second however.
If a foe is Locked-On, Night Slash/Metal Claws/Sucker Punch/Faint Attack all will home in on the targeted foe automatically.
When Bisharp commands Feraligatr to use a smash attack, Gatr's smashes are performed 25% faster than normal. When Bisharp and Feraligatr are the only Pokemon remaining, Feraligatr can also command Bisharp with his Smashes due to experience.

|Watery Trick Rooms add a new piece to Bisharp's playing field with this team, and combined with Lock on, reliable Bleed damage and stage-covering damage, the stage is set for total foe lock-down! A bit tougher to grasp than most other teams, the key to victory here is swapping back and forth to get the most out of each aspect of the pairs, usually Team2 swaps in order for Bisharp to space both his and Z/Gatr's smash attacks effectively around Trick Rooms.

UncleSam · Aug 7, 2009

crap, somebody remind me, which movie did mewtwo use the tornado?
I totally forgot...

payasofobia · Aug 7, 2009

JOE! said:
why arent we focusing on what samus could do to mewtwo?

can mewtwo hold a barrier at teh same time as attacking?

in the movie it seemed one or the other...

Screw defense and rocks, full beam pierces through everything it gets in its way and It is as fast as a power beam shot, and it pulverizes everything it touches.....and it has a long range and width.....and freezes mewtwo if it does not kill him.

And if that does not work then the screw attack will do. Samus is invincible, can use it forever and kills every human sized enemy in one hit.

UncleSam · Aug 7, 2009

if mewtwo ever tries to throw samus, she goes into morphball and doesn't get hurt (weird thing about metroid) and can boost ball to keep mewtwo from re-grabbing her

All samus needs is
Annihilator beam, hyper beam, nova beam
annihilator homes in no matter what, if it gets moved out of the way it homes back in (as long as there is a target it goes for it, ecehoes has the most broken beam) hyper beam is what she uses in hypermode (duh)
and nova beam=headshot kill
if mewtwo has no brain, because the one he had just exploded, then whats he gonna do?

adumbrodeus said:
I feel like a quote from Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail is needed: What are you gonna do, bleed on me?

oh yeah, that
EDIT: imperialist has the same effect

Memorable_Random_Guy · Aug 7, 2009

payasofobia said:
Screw defense and rocks, full beam pierces through everything it gets in its way and It is as fast as a power beam shot, and it pulverizes everything it touches.....and it has a long range and width.....and freezes mewtwo if it does not kill him.

And if that does not work then the screw attack will do. Samus is invincible, can use it forever and kills every human sized enemy in one hit.

A million times this.

Samus will just shoot a barrage of fully upgraded beams as soon as the fight starts, and if that doesn't work she wins by default because of the screw attack.

JOE! · Aug 7, 2009

Pokemon

|

Super Smashes

|

Interactions

|

Strategy

|

Assist
Sharpen_APP
(Triple Finish)

|

If Spore is activated in a Trick Room, the cloud will linger inside of it until it is absorbed by an enemy.
If a foe is Locked-On, Night Slash/Metal Claws/Sucker Punch/Faint Attack all will home in on the targeted foe automatically.
If an opponent is under the effects of Spore's poison, Bisharp's bleed damage will extend by 1/2 a second per hit instead of 1/4 second when applicable. If the opponent is paralyzed or slept by Spore, Bisharp's attacks will do 25-50% more KB respectively.

|A very technical team, Breloom and Bisharp equally benefit from Z's supporting fire and Trick Rooms. However, the nature of the former two on top of Z's odd normal attacks will lend itself to highly offensive gameplay full of rushdown, baiting and trapping/tricking the foe into Spore clouds in order to hit it big.
|

TRIPLE FINISH

|

Both Z and Bisharp jump to the background once activated, and otherwise behave as normal for the next 5 seconds, until somebody passes by and is able to be Locked-On. Once this happens, Z will turn to Bisharp and cloak him digitally, making him completely invisible! It is now Breloom's job to occupy the foe and keep them Locked-On via proper spacing and area control in order for Bisharp to come out of the shadows 5 seconds later and deliver a souped up Night-Slash critical from behind the foe. The critical does 30% in one go and a great deal of Horizontal KB, so you'll definitely not want a foe to avoid it!

|

Memorable_Random_Guy · Aug 7, 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVmIL5Yslbo&feature=related

Check this video. Everytime samus attacked while the other was screw attacking, it did nothing. More specificaly, begin at 00:30 and keep watching.

The only thing that can stop the screw attack is a very big foe or another screw attack.

REL38 · Aug 7, 2009

Memorable_Random_Guy said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVmIL5Yslbo&feature=related

Check this video. Everytime samus attacked while the other was screw attacking, it did nothing. More specificaly, begin at 00:30 and keep watching.

The only thing that can stop the screw attack is a very big foe or another screw attack.

But it says cheats were used in the description so does that even count?

Sieguest · Aug 7, 2009

I'm absent for a day doing nothing/studying and this jumbled mess appears....>_>

A-Samus's shots are dead know why?
CONFUSION!!! >_> what then....what then now son?
All the things I looked up and it boils down to Confusion, and the bubble...>_>

I better explain myself......
A Confusion- You know that little move that twists everything around and nothing was as it should....when all of a sudden you're flipped backwards...that's confusion, shots are gonna warped by this BS move and turned around..

The bubble- For everything else Samus decides to throw...>.>

C307 · Aug 7, 2009

So far it looks like if samus so much as hits mewtwo with one shot of anything mewtwo is down.
Mewtwo is going to have to keep up a barrier (if which we are keeping this canon style) he cannot hold a barrier and attack at the same time, While samus can keep up fire at the barrier and Mewtwo can't do anything but hold up the barrier.

The only point i see Mewtwo winning is if he see's Samus before she see's him, in which he can let off a confusion and then do whatever he wants to her.

Memorable_Random_Guy · Aug 7, 2009

Marthage said:
I'm absent for a day doing nothing/studying and this jumbled mess appears....>_>

A-Samus's shots are dead know why?
CONFUSION!!! >_> what then....what then now son?
All the things I looked up and it boils down to Confusion, and the bubble...>_>

I better explain myself......
A Confusion- You know that little move that twists everything around and nothing was as it should....when all of a sudden you're flipped backwards...that's confusion, shots are gonna warped by this BS move and turned around..

The bubble- For everything else Samus decides to throw...>.>

We already explained a lot Marthage, just look at the previous posts.

Samus has fought against more powerful psychics than Mewtwo before and can take the most powerful psychic blast in fiction thrice.

And her fully upgraded beam is broken as ****, as well as her screw attack. AND the beam can pierce through anything: walls, armor, energy fields, caparaces, mountains....everything.

AND by extention....the only attack that can pierce through Samus VARIA SUIT ALONE is the fully upgraded beam as shown in Metroid Fusion. If she has any other armor we may as well classify her suit as unbreakable.

Samus wins.

REL38 said:
But it says cheats were used in the description so does that even count?

Only to change Samus's color.

Sieguest · Aug 8, 2009

Memorable_Random_Guy said:
We already explained a lot Marthage, just look at the previous posts.

Samus has fought against more powerful psychics than Mewtwo before and can take the most powerful psychic blast in fiction thrice.

And her fully upgraded beam is broken as ****, as well as her screw attack. AND the beam can pierce through anything: walls, armor, energy fields, caparaces, mountains....everything.

AND by extention....the only attack that can pierce through Samus VARIA SUIT ALONE is the fully upgraded beam as shown in Metroid Fusion. If she has any other armor we may as well classify her suit as unbreakable.

Samus wins.

Only to change Samus's color.

Confusion to change the projectile *cough cough*
canonically- Mewtwo can absorb energy attacks with that barrier...>.>

payasofobia · Aug 8, 2009

Marthage said:
Confusion to change the projectile *cough cough*
canonically- Mewtwo can absorb energy attacks with that barrier...>.>

Well, in the games and in the manga, the only thing confusion did was throwing an opponent using psychic powers.

And barrier only raises Mewtwo's defense, it does not absorb attacks.

Sieguest · Aug 8, 2009

payasofobia said:
Well, in the games and in the manga, the only thing confusion did was throwing an opponent using psychic powers.

And barrier only raises Mewtwo's defense, it does not absorb attacks.

^Pokemon the first movie...get some...>.>

adumbrodeus · Aug 8, 2009

JOE! said:
Sure, he can create a tornado, but that could just be a show of raw power...and with mewtwo's savage instinct, may be what he allways go for: beating the **** out of opponents with psionics instead of assasinating them.

I'm sorry, but that is one of the most ridiculous statements made in this thread.

Weather is one of the most unpredictable and difficult to control elements in the world.

As I stated, even our forecasts are highly inaccurate, reletive to what else we can measure.

With all the raw power we can create, how come we can't create a true tornado?

The level of finess required to control them is far beyond our technology, but not the raw power.

So it is both, a display of finess and a display of power.

Memorable_Random_Guy said:
1) Use your logic and flexibility of mind, the most unrealistic and ulikely gameplay mechanics are obviously there to facilitate programing and make for a fun experience, while the most likely or constantly refferred to mechanics by the NPC's stay.

The mechanics that stand are those that are established in-canon.

2) Mother Brain was referred as having powerful psionic waves in the manual, and she shoots psyhic attacks and her brain glows when shooting her Hyper beam. And because of her physiology, she most likely have FAR more powerful psionics than Mewtwo.

Ok, I'll give you that.

I'm sold, Samus again punches out Cthulhu.

But it lacks the fine control that mewtwo has displayed.

But, the fact is that then her psionics greviously injur samus, which does the opposite of implying that samus has an inborn resistence.

3) He can shoot blasts of psychic energy just like Mewtwo does in his games. Mewtwo and Gorea without speculation have the same abilities, with speculation they could probably do all the stuff you say psionics can do. Both were shown to have precise psionics, and they are pretty much equal in that part. If you say that Gorea can't be speculated upon, then your whole Mewtwo speculation goes down the drain.

If he had the telekenetic abilities (remember he only displayed telepathy), then yes. And again, he never SHOWED precise control, wide-beaming a transmission to the entire galaxy is raw power, not control.

Assuming that again, his blasts were psionic in nature (which is never established), he should've been able to wide-beam them like his transmission and literally puddle samus' brain unless she had displayed complete immunity to psionics, specifically telepathy.

Which she hasn't.

Basically, you're argument doesn't really establish that samus could beat mewtwo, just that samus has a tendancy to be pitted against enemies that she never should've beaten, and the games just require her to, therefore, a wizard does it.

4) You are severely understimating the power suit and the skill samus has. She is basicaly a walking evil alien genocide woman. And her power suit usualy has equal or more health than bosses and has some extremely powerful weaponry. Not counting the fact that Samus the most skilled Hunter in the universe.

How so?

Hold her telekenetically and she's done. She's also shown no real resistence to telepathy.

It's not so much the fact that she's weak as the fact that psionics are god-mode broken except in universes where it's universal, or easily countered in some way.

payasofobia said:
She does with the use of her power armor, the fact that she can transfor herself into pure enrgy and that the blood gave her all of the chozo abilities, without their abilities wouldn't be able to even use the power suit.

Again, the transform is an assisted thing. She is incapable of doing that without the ghosts, or at least hasn't shown that.

And before you say that the morph ball itself transforms them into energy, take into consideration that all space pirates attempt to replicate it ended up in being crushed because they could not transform into energy.

So? That doesn't mean that she transforms into energy to do that, molecular compression is fine.

As for the rest, it's the implications of reletively finely controlled psionics with sufficent power behind them.

I've been saying this from the beginning, once you look into the implications of psionics, you realize that they're completely broken, especially when you reach the high end of finess, almost irregardless of power.

Evidence that the blasts are psionic? He's an energy being, but that doesn't mean his blasts are automatically telepathic attacks.

But again, not really. It shows how screwed up it was that samus won that fight. Samus has a combination of conventional and unconventional weapons. Gorea is an eldritch abomination with the ability to be immune to weapons and incorperate them into itself.

Samus, really shouldn't have stood a chance, and if he really does have the ability to make psionic attacks, he's high enough on the power scale to wide-beam them and puddle samus' brain anyway. He just conveinently DIDN'T.

Really, I'd love to talk about what Gorea COULD do, frankly they're pretty god-mode.

UncleSam said:
if mewtwo ever tries to throw samus, she goes into morphball and doesn't get hurt (weird thing about metroid) and can boost ball to keep mewtwo from re-grabbing her

Why would Mewtwo throw her?

She would CRUSH her.

All samus needs is
Annihilator beam, hyper beam, nova beam
annihilator homes in no matter what, if it gets moved out of the way it homes back in (as long as there is a target it goes for it, ecehoes has the most broken beam) hyper beam is what she uses in hypermode (duh)
and nova beam=headshot kill
if mewtwo has no brain, because the one he had just exploded, then whats he gonna do?

oh yeah, that
EDIT: imperialist has the same effect

The problem is actually getting the hit, as I explained MANY times before.

Memorable_Random_Guy said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVmIL5Yslbo&feature=related

Check this video. Everytime samus attacked while the other was screw attacking, it did nothing. More specificaly, begin at 00:30 and keep watching.

The only thing that can stop the screw attack is a very big foe or another screw attack.

Here's the problem with that assumption, "samus just screw-attacked through the big bang".

It gives her invincability frames in-game, but what the attack does canonically is more important to the discussion, it surrounds her with plasma and electricity.

That might burn through some materials, and make touching her a bad idea, and be a very powerful attack, but it's NO detterent to psionics.

C307 said:
So far it looks like if samus so much as hits mewtwo with one shot of anything mewtwo is down.
Mewtwo is going to have to keep up a barrier (if which we are keeping this canon style) he cannot hold a barrier and attack at the same time, While samus can keep up fire at the barrier and Mewtwo can't do anything but hold up the barrier.

The only point i see Mewtwo winning is if he see's Samus before she see's him, in which he can let off a confusion and then do whatever he wants to her.

The point is that psionics allow selective deflection/countermeasures, which combined with mewtwo's ability to sense samus' actions before they occur, mean that she should never ever hit mewtwo.

Basically it's like Ganondorf vs. wario. Ganondorf has a grab release infinite on wario, but will ganondorf ever grab wario? Not really, wario has far more then sufficent tools to avoid a grab, even though it's a 0-death.

Mewtwo can of course, hold her in place, and crush her telekenetically, which can happen from anywhere, has no charge up, and no travel time.

Smooth Criminal · Aug 8, 2009

I still think it would be hilarious if Mewtwo could do wiggy **** to friction via his telekinetics.

Imagine: Samus makes any moves, at all, and the friction that she creates suddenly becomes so great that she combusts. Or, better yet, she doesn't move at all and creates such little energy that the air around her becomes super-chilled.

Smooth Criminal

BeastlyBrawler323 · Aug 8, 2009

Ok you say mewtwo can crush her with his TK; This MAY be possible if she was not in morph ball(then again it may not since we don't know how much telekinetic force it would take to damage her suit) but if she were to change into morph ball, it would be incredibly difficult(if not impossible) to crush her then since the morph ball is more durable and thus very resistent to crushing by any force. Also, since mother brain's psionic powers may very well be more powerful than mewtwo's, it would be safe to say that the hyper beam can, in fact, damage mewtwo significantly. Mother brain's powers protected her from all of samus' attacks and even regenerated her back when the metroid drained her energy. The hyperbeam, however, was powerful enough to pierce her psionic power's protective/regenerative abilities and defeat mother brain. If the hyperbeam can do that to mother brain, then why not to mewtwo?

Sieguest · Aug 8, 2009

BeastlyBrawler323 said:
Ok you say mewtwo can crush her with his TK; This MAY be possible if she was not in morph ball(then again it may not since we don't know how much telekinetic force it would take to damage her suit) but if she were to change into morph ball, it would be incredibly difficult(if not impossible) to crush her then since the morph ball is more durable and thus very resistent to crushing by any force. Also, since mother brain's psionic powers may very well be more powerful than mewtwo's, it would be safe to say that the hyper beam can, in fact, damage mewtwo significantly. Mother brain's powers protected her from all of samus' attacks and even regenerated her back when the metroid drained her energy. The hyperbeam, however, was powerful enough to pierce her psionic power's protective/regenerative abilities and defeat mother brain. If the hyperbeam can do that to mother brain, then why not to mewtwo?

Because Psionic powers break all the laws of Physics...Mewtwo could contort Samus any number of ways!

that's why it's dangerous....

Even in that morph ball Mewtwo still has complete dominance over Samus

JOE! · Aug 8, 2009

Pokemon

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Super Smashes

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Interactions

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Strategy

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Sharpen_APP
Rock Smash
Hyper Beam

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If a foe is Locked-On, Night Slash/Metal Claws/Sucker Punch/Faint Attack all will home in on the targeted foe automatically.
With Metal Burst active, Bisharp can destroy Armantle's Rock creations to create explosions like Charizard's Brawl Side B with every hit for massive damage potential.
If a target is Fossilized in a Trick Room, they do not acquire the negative side effects (Minus damage and speed on allies, damage resistance on enemies), but the duration/escape difficulty is halved.

|Bisharp is the MVP of the team, after Porygon-Z and Armantle set up of course. The ability for him to share lock-on and create multi-hit attacks from rocks stacks wonderfully with Bleed and Lava damage, not to mention Sharpen_App's homing projectiles on top of all this. Packing strong finishers in Hyper Beam and Rock Smash as well, it shouldn't be hard to keep the ball rolling even after Bisharp goes down for the count, as Z and Armantle can still capitalize on the great zoning projectiles and heavy armor he gave them to maintain the edge.

adumbrodeus · Aug 8, 2009

JOE! said:
all a tornado is is a vortex.....a really big one

Take 1 air mass going ------> thatway (hot/cold)

and another going <------ thatway (cold/hot)

Make said airmasses hit each other so it's almost like rubbing your hands past each other

the result at the "meeting point" can be the air swirling around each other, making a vortex

Its really not too complex, just reallly big. Hell, in the movie he made a **** HURRICANE just by waving his hand. Its all raw power

That's the mechanics simplified to the point that it SEEMS easy, but the the actual interactions which govern tornados in terms of air currents are a great deal more complex.

Especially when you're dealing with the creating and maintanance of these masses of air from otherwise calm and reletively uniformly heated areas.

And then there's movement control.

Basically, it takes a fine and dynamic control of air currents, as well as the ability to selectively incite areas and/or transfer heat.

All of which are extremely precise abilities, the biggest being the ability to scout the phenomion to see what is needed.

edit:

Memorable_Random_Guy said:
And her fully upgraded beam is broken as ****, as well as her screw attack. AND the beam can pierce through anything: walls, armor, energy fields, caparaces, mountains....everything.

AND by extention....the only attack that can pierce through Samus VARIA SUIT ALONE is the fully upgraded beam as shown in Metroid Fusion. If she has any other armor we may as well classify her suit as unbreakable.

Samus wins.

Just noticed this.

That gets "lol factor" right there.

It's shown to be able to pierce through the specific mentioned things there, that doesn't mean other things can't stop it, just nothing shown in the game.

And I'm sorry, but those properties don't carry over to the 3D metriod games. The big suggestion there... non-canonical game mechanics (aka, it doesn't look cheesy in a 2D game, but in a 3D game, it does some conveinently forgotten). Yes, it's the same weapon, the wave beam. But since mewtwo's cheif weapon for counter-acting the wave beam would be 189 degrees off waves, or changing it's angle to make it miss, or preventing samus from actually aiming at her with telekenesis, or just crushing the arm canon at the begining it's not really so much of an issue.

As for the suit being indestructable, then how is samus capable of taking damage and dying canonically? Heck, how is the suit capable of being removed surgically? It couldn't. So, your weapons were incapable of harming it, possibly due to a combination of the x infecting it, and the weaponed condition of the suit that Samus was using.

Which means sufficent force WILL crush it.

Again, Canon discussion basic idea, "powerful in the game world =/=powerful against characters from other worlds", being able to block something from the game doesn't mean it can block anything, it just means it can block things with identical attributes, and furthermore only in the manner canonically defined.

uhmuzing · Aug 8, 2009

It's 3 A.M. and i'm too tired to read through the select posts before this, so I hope this hasn't already been said or disproved or whatever, but....

Memorable_Random_Guy said:
AND by extention....the only attack that can pierce through Samus VARIA SUIT ALONE is the fully upgraded beam as shown in Metroid Fusion. If she has any other armor we may as well classify her suit as unbreakable.

Even if Samus's suit is unable to be broken, Samus herself is inside that suit and IS breakable. What I mean is that take, for example, Mewtwo picking up a large object, like a boulder. Now if Mewtwo takes this boulder and just swings it into Samus with all his might ("raw power" would enable alot of strength, would it not?), Samus herself would go flying and even if her suit did not break, I'm pretty sure samus would melt down at the force of the impact. Even if her shell is invincible, mewtwo doesn't have to try very hard to just throw a gargantuan sized object and nail her with it, which would definitely crush her with the force.

And psionics really are broken. Mewtwo is a god. Samus is like the ultimate tank with unreal powers and almost immortal defenses. Anyone else would definitely be crushed by Samus, but she's fighting something with so much control, so much power, so much intelligence, so much.. everything. Mewtwo can do virtually everything with his powers. We are underrating him by a long shot! Mewtwo truely can alter every aspect of the battle. Yes, samus has an incredibly tough power suit. Yes, Samus could blow apart anything it can hit. But Samus cannot hit Mewtwo. Samus is fighting something that has every option imaginable, something that only too easily can win this faster than we would think.

Yeah, one thing Mewtwo can do is materialize and rocket a big huge rock right at her. And do you think it might be too hard for Mewtwo to just make Samus aim her rockets some where else? He doesn't have to get in her mind to do that, he can play her like a puppet. He's powerful enough to make a freaking hurricane! You don't think he can move Samus's arm cannon around? Before long, she'll be shooting herself. I mean, just take about five minutes to think up some more ideas. Mewtwo is a god.

Unless you all can find a way to nerf his powers, I don't see any possible way Samus can get even survive for half a minute..

UncleSam · Aug 8, 2009

dragonblooded said:
words

hypermode...
EDIT: you've never played a metroid game have you?
Samus fights Rundas,
Rundas throws massive blocks of Ice at her,
Samus destroys them

throwing rocks at her won't work
EDIT2:

Marthage said:
^Pokemon the first movie...get some...>.>

that movie was released in Generation I there was no definite line between physical attacks and special attacks, that's why mewtwo seemed as powerful in the movie, barrier and counter do nothing to samus' beam weaponry

BeastlyBrawler323 · Aug 8, 2009

adumbrodeus said:
edit:

Just noticed this.

That gets "lol factor" right there.

It's shown to be able to pierce through the specific mentioned things there, that doesn't mean other things can't stop it, just nothing shown in the game.

And I'm sorry, but those properties don't carry over to the 3D metriod games. The big suggestion there... non-canonical game mechanics (aka, it doesn't look cheesy in a 2D game, but in a 3D game, it does some conveinently forgotten). Yes, it's the same weapon, the wave beam. But since mewtwo's cheif weapon for counter-acting the wave beam would be 189 degrees off waves, or changing it's angle to make it miss, or preventing samus from actually aiming at her with telekenesis, or just crushing the arm canon at the begining it's not really so much of an issue.

As for the suit being indestructable, then how is samus capable of taking damage and dying canonically? Heck, how is the suit capable of being removed surgically? It couldn't. So, your weapons were incapable of harming it, possibly due to a combination of the x infecting it, and the weaponed condition of the suit that Samus was using.

Which means sufficent force WILL crush it.

Again, Canon discussion basic idea, "powerful in the game world =/=powerful against characters from other worlds", being able to block something from the game doesn't mean it can block anything, it just means it can block things with identical attributes, and furthermore only in the manner canonically defined.

. You keep saying that
mewtwo can just crush this or that but I ask you: Have you ever seen any psychic attack able to effectively crumble thick metal? Not only thick metal, but the strongest and most durable metals from throughout the universe mended together by beings who were a race that reached the limits of knowledge and connections to nature them selfs and other dimensions
the Chozo spent an incredibly long time building the suit, it cannot be destroyed...
the Chozo built the suit with the toughest of metals from all over the Universe. Not even in pokemon(anime or game) are psychic attacks effective against steel types. The most they could possibly do is lift them and throw them and we've already discussed how samus can avoid getting hurt if she were thrown. As for her suit "breaking", it doesn't break; it merely enters stand-by mode and falls off and samus most likely dies due to being exposed to a harsh environment or lack of air. The surgically removed parts, it was stated that samus had built a biological connection to the suit so while she was dying/unconcious, this could have very well have very well of weakened the suit severely. Think of it as samus dying=the suit dying as well. Besides, since the suit was infected with the X virus, those parts of the suit could very well have been altered by the virus and thus physically made weaker. We also don't know if her new suit look is permanent or not.

UncleSam · Aug 8, 2009

Marthage said:
^Pokemon the first movie...get some...>.>

it's considered inaccurate now, there was no definite line between physical and special attacks then. samus' beam weapons will go straight through barrier and counter...
get some? >.>

uhmuzing · Aug 8, 2009

UncleSam said:
hypermode...
EDIT: you've never played a metroid game have you?
Samus fights Rundas,
Rundas throws massive blocks of Ice at her,
Samus destroys them

throwing rocks at her won't work

First of all, you're assuming that Mewtwo can't throw them faster than a Runda. Mewtwo's powers definitely suggest he can throw them with amazing speed and strength. They'd be flying as fast as gunshots, and mewtwo could probably throw many, many at a time. Also, in her games, Samus obviously has to be able to destroy them, so the developers won't make them fly too fast or be too hard to hit. The fact that Samus destroys projectiles thrown at her in her own games doesn't mean that Mewtwo's attacks won't hit her. Also, what about my idea of mewtwo making her aim somewhere else? How can she destroy them now?

UncleSam · Aug 8, 2009

dragonblooded said:
First of all, you're assuming that Mewtwo can't throw them faster than a Runda. Mewtwo's powers definitely suggest he can throw them with amazing speed and strength. They'd be flying as fast as gunshots, and mewtwo could probably throw many, many at a time. Also, in her games, Samus obviously has to be able to destroy them, so the developers won't make them fly too fast or be too hard to hit. The fact that Samus destroys projectiles thrown at her in her own games doesn't mean that Mewtwo's attacks won't hit her. Also, what about my idea of mewtwo making her aim somewhere else? How can she destroy them now?

Annihilator beam
play echoes

uhmuzing · Aug 8, 2009

UncleSam said:
Annihilator beam
play echoes

K I can't really do that right now. Explain?

UncleSam · Aug 8, 2009

dragonblooded said:
K I can't really do that right now. Explain?

and you can't look it up?
annihilator beam is an auto homing beam, even if samus doesn't lock on, even it it's out of her sights it will eventually find a target unless there is no target in the room, it is also fast, deals both light and dark damage, and can create a sonic boom as it's missile combo which can cover a long area and kill/destroy multiple targets at once
samus has weapons to deal with every situation
and we haven't even gotten to the command visor

Anthony523 · Aug 8, 2009

Mewtwo...

Have Any Of You Seen The Pokemon Movie Where Mewtwo First Appears?

Complete Destruction.

UncleSam · Aug 8, 2009

Anthony523 said:
Mewtwo...

Have Any Of You Seen The Pokemon Movie Where Mewtwo First Appears?

Complete Destruction.

I saw the whole movie this morning, there are tropical stroms more powerful than the storm he created,
in that movie when mewtwo broke out of his status chamber the explosions he created could easily be dodged by samus, there is a clear path which can be visibly seen and can be dodged

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