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True Romance · Apr 11, 2010

Errghhh, why am I dropping so many cgs with D3 atm?

I've just gone back to using him and never use to have a problem, but with some of the trickier ones now like TLink, Diddy and Marth, I'm missing the grab and doing the silly "oops I missed lets roll on the ground" animation.

Atm my button inputs when doing the cg are dash - shield - Z.

I can't remember if this is what I use to do or not but I can't understand why it doesn't work now. Not sure if I'm just timing it wrong or I need different inputs. Cheers.

T3h Albino · Apr 12, 2010

go practice on a level 9....

True Romance · Apr 12, 2010

So my inputs are optimal?

That's all I was really wondering, whether I needed practise or I was doing something wrong.

Edit - Sorry I was ********, have found that after dash if I just hold forward then shield works every time.. My bad.

adumbrodeus · Apr 14, 2010

Since everything else was answered, who can DDD ledge infinite, I know Wolf and himself, but what other characters get screwed by this?

Also, no walking CG? I seem to remember him clearly being able to do it on Ganondorf.

Commander_Beef · Apr 14, 2010

adumbrodeus said:
Since everything else was answered, who can DDD ledge infinite, I know Wolf and himself, but what other characters get screwed by this?

Also, no walking CG? I seem to remember him clearly being able to do it on Ganondorf.

Yep, just those two and Bowser.
He can only walking chaingrab Bowser and Donkey Kong. Nobody else. [Take advantage of this because they aren't infinites, and it'll go passed the rule of banning standing infinites] Whoever said it could be done on Ganondorf or Wario...it was all just superstition back in 2008, not true as of now.

Another tidbit. He can't standing infinite Bowser in such a way he does to DK, Mario, Luigi, or Samus. Only on the ledge. He's the only character that we can get a guarenteed buffered down smash on after a down throw though.<---Don't do that after a ledge infinite, won't work.

Laem · Apr 15, 2010

Commander_Beef said:
He's the only character that we can get a guarenteed buffered down smash on after a down throw though.<---Don't do that after a ledge infinite, won't work.

The more you know

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Apr 20, 2010

Who can you Walk CG as DDD? As far as I know, you can only do this to Bowser.

Commander_Beef · Apr 20, 2010

So lulzy... time to update the original post.
Only Bowser and Donkey Kong that's it. It's the first sentence of my previous post you maggot.

Laem said:
The more you know

the better.

lol

7Claus · Apr 21, 2010

You can also infinite Wolf in some stages that have small slopes like Halberd, Pirate Ship, Frigate Orpheon, Yoshi's Island, etc... (it's a long list)

Is that infinite banned in MLG? I'm not sure, since they specified Mario, Luigi, DK, Bowser and Samus...

salsa~ · Apr 22, 2010

7Claus said:
You can also infinite Wolf in some stages that have small slopes like Halberd, Pirate Ship, Frigate Orpheon, Yoshi's Island, etc... (it's a long list)

Is that infinite banned in MLG? I'm not sure, since they specified Mario, Luigi, DK, Bowser and Samus...

All infinites and walking cgs from ddd (also marth's grab release on ness infinite) were banned ): prolly if some1 do that one in mlg he would be warned.

Quik17 · Apr 25, 2010

Hey guys. I need some advice against really campy Snakes. I'm having a really hard time getting a grab when there are always nades coming at me. And when I do get that grab there's usually a nade somewhere to interrupt my CG. Any tips will be appreciated. Thanks!

Commander_Beef · Apr 25, 2010

It's really hard to approach him I know. But you have to be patient with him, avoiding one grenade at a time until you see an opening for a grab, forward tilt, or downair/backair. Playing smart. I took this post from thread a while back that I wrote. It's still legit, if you need any more help with Snake. The stuff in red is probably what you're looking for.

If you ever play an aggressive Snake [like Ally] or one who does approaching spotdodges or a lot of spotdodges in general [like Mojoe], do fullhop down airs. It ***** them every time and they have no answer for it, not their tilts, no nothing. They won't expect it.
_________________________________________________________________

Before I say everything we can do to his camping, just know that you should mix up all of these options and not stick to one. I learned that a while ago, the videos of me versus Hall only shows air camping, but hey, I made a mistake okay?
There are several different ways to avoid his grenades will he is camping you. The shining strategy is air camping, and waiting for that opening to grab him when you're coming down. Also, don't be afraid to either throw one back at him if he does a wimpy throw, or grab a grenade and approach with shield.
Waddle dees help this matchup more than any other matchups that are in the high tier or top tier range. [They help against Diddy Kong too, but meh.]
You won't get punished if you're far enough way to throw a couple waddle dees to thwart with his grenades. They help with explosions that are unexpected to Snake and they distract him, enough said about them. Never throw them when he's offstage. Wait until he comes down, or otherwise, keep gimping him while offstage.
If you're in moderate range while he has a grenade in his hand while he is in his shield, don't be afraid to forward tilt him. Be the farthest away to where you can forward tilt him.
If there are no other grenades in front of him, and he has one in his hand while you are semi-close, I have mindgamed Snakes with a simple dash to a forward throw. If they're use to you not approaching, do the opposite, that's called mindgames for you.
And if you manage to grab him while he has grenade in hand, the grenade will drop, and buffer chaingrabs, the timing of the grenade won't blow you up when you're passed him. If you see the timing of the grenade about to blow up, forward throw or up throw, and start buffering the shield button. Being patient with this maneuvers is key.

_____________________________________________________________________

For me...handling his forward tilt is easy. As long as you predict it well and you know when it's going to come, it's fine. We all know that shielding it is the most safe option, so sure, we can do that, no problem. We can never punish him with a grab after he does the full forward tilt though. So do your forward tilt here, or a fullhop down air instead. You won't get punished here either because you'll be far enough away when Snake bumps your shield.
Another thing that nobody else has even mentioned for this matchup, Shield the "knee" portion, then spotdodge the hand. That's the guarenteed strategy if you want to punish with grab. The thing is...normally when I plan to do it, they don't do the "hand" part of the forward tilt, so this situation is all about reactions too. If you react fast enough when you don't see the "hand" coming, you can grab him there too, but normally they jab every time, and that's too fast for our grab. So there's many different outcomes to this, so it's all up to you to react fast enough to what he does.

_______________________________________________________________

Avoiding his up tilt is a sinch because it's predictable while we're on the ground, just shield on reaction. The only time when I get surprised by it, is when I'm in the air, that's when I die from up tilt. But otherwise, I hardly ever get hit by it.
__________________________________________________________________

So now that we've got the grab on him, chaingrabbing him to near the edge, you've got a number of hidden options that I will reveal. 1.) You can down throw once more, to a down tilt, then he'll be forced to upB, which is a gimping opportunity. You should be dashing and jumping immediately after your down tilt because he's only going to upB. 2.) You can grab release him. Keep pummeling if you want a grab release, and if you get a pummel break, back air stage spike. If he air releases, go out there and gimp him with forward air or back air.
3.) You can down throw once more and this situation involves more reactions, and timing.
Some things HE can do by recovering from the down throw:
1.) Jump and airdodge back on to stage. [Or jumping and forward air <----do up tilt to that]
2.) Jump and do the usual upB ascending.
3.) Jump on the ledge.

Now the third option is his safest, but what we have against him here, is to stage spike him with back air before he is close to the ledge. Hardest to time though.
If you forsee him jumping to an airdodge, do the following:

If at 130% or higher : Up tilt or down smash for the kill

If at lower than 130% : do a pivot grab

And finally, after he jumps, and you see that little cypher pop up, prepare to jump and forward air him. It's all about reacting to what he does, in summarized form. The reactions take practice. Just know that you're safe from harm when you're edgeguarding him.
4.) Or you can do your standard forward throw when you're near the ledge. Expect an upB from him, so start buffering dash to a jump and gimp.
_____________________________________________________________

If we're ever above him, and he mortars, neutral air is the best mortar cancelling aerial out of the three : [back air, neutral air, down air.]
Neutral air leads to a free grab if we're close enough after you fast fall it, and if he's in the 0-10% range. If we're higher up, and he charges it to the max, neutral air it anyways lol.
If we're in mid range of distance, fastfall neutral air it, do a single jump/puff, dodge his attack and go for a fastfall back air.
________________________________________________________________

We won't have any problem if we're both airborne. The only info I have for this is... is to learn to smash DI upwards out of his neutral air. Learn to predict his back air correctly, because it'll kill you at high percents. And know that back air outprioritizes his air game, that's it.

And our neutral air helps out this matchup a lot. There are many opportunites to do it when you know that you won't hit him with any other aerial at the moment. It's fast, and Snake's body is large enough to be hit by it. No I don't mean to go spamming it on him, I mean in special situations where he airdodges after upB'ing and our back air/forward air fail, neutral air then. There are situations also involving platforms where I'm forced to neutral air, it's hard to explain, but just add neutral air more to your game for this matchup while we're in the air. But if you're given the opportunity to forward air or back air, do that instead.

As far as killing him with our up tilt, it's somewhat easy we'll be given many chances to do so, mainly when he's already in the air. That's up to your timing of it.

If there's any more concerns on the matchup that I should cover, feel free to post.

Quik17 · Apr 25, 2010

Thanks a lot man, that helped a ton!

One more question, how important is 4th port in this matchup? Should I make it a priority to always RPS for it?

Commander_Beef · Apr 25, 2010

Your welcome!!
It's not TOO important but always try to get the 4th port first, so you'll be guarenteed to not get hit by the grenade during a grab.

Dark 3nergy · Apr 26, 2010

definitely try to get port 4 if you can against a snake, snakes got all kinds of tricks from grabbed grenade drops if he gets the 4th port

febs · Apr 26, 2010

already looked, but is there is a d3 player finder thread?

Commander_Beef · Apr 28, 2010

There's no new one. The old one is from more than a year ago, I doubt you'll find it.

Tmacc · Apr 29, 2010

You can find it in the stickied DDDirectory. It's called "The Kings Knights" or something like that. But like Beefy said, it's outdated...

o-Serin-o · Apr 29, 2010

FFS, we need a mod.

**** needs to get done around here.

Tmacc · Apr 30, 2010

I agree. The D3 boards are kind of dying without one...

Countcocofang · May 4, 2010

Hey Beefy, I haven't posted any of my vids in while so I thought I'd get some critique going. You may have already seen my videos since you subscribed to my page, but I'd like to hear any advice you have for me yet again

vanstrummer · May 5, 2010

I've never posted here but would love to get some of my videos critiqued. now, I have more than this, so I can post more at request. Don't be too hard on me, lol.

But I am looking to advance my game, I feel like sometimes i'm at a standstill with DeDeDe but I don't want to give him up, so hopefully you all can give me some pointers on how to improve my game

Vs. Sheik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiBH3zNMynU

Vs. Pit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGvCvOfbZls

Vs. Snake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA43u9vUC9I

Countcocofang · May 5, 2010

Thats some good stuff there Van, here's just some things I noticed:

Against Sheik I noticed that you like to roll away when she hits the back of your shield. Instead of rolling away you can grab behind you. You tend to roll a lot which you might want to cut down on. You also don't use a lot of ftilt, I think replaced half of your rolls with ftilts it would help you a lot. Just dont ftilt too much like I do or you get perfect shielded and punished.

You also use a lot of waddle tosses which works well against Snake but not as much against pit and shiek. Those waddles also messed you up a few times by getting in the way of your attacks, so be careful

I would use ftilt against pit or shiek as they hang on the edge, it makes is hard for them to get back on safely.

Overall though, you did quite well in these matches. Keep up the good work :D

7Claus · May 5, 2010

You're in the right way Van, just need to get rid of some bad habits.

You shouldn't fastfall Dair to the ground unless you're 100% sure the last hit will connect, the landing lag is pretty bad and all hits except the last don't have enough knockback to prevent punishment. You're also using Inhale a lot, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but it was getting too predictable. I like to use it with B-reversal often, because most opponents will try to shield the Bair they assume will come. Again, this too can get predictable, so don't overdo it.

Regarding what Count said about pressure on the back of the shield, you can also Bair OoS, which comes faster than dropping your shield and grabbing behind you, so it's nice to know when to do one or the other.

One last thing, you need to work on your DI and momentum cancelling. One of Dedede's strenghts is his survivability, and you're not taking full advantage of it.

Keep up the good work ;D

Commander_Beef · May 5, 2010

Countcocofang said:
Hey Beefy, I haven't posted any of my vids in while so I thought I'd get some critique going. You may have already seen my videos since you subscribed to my page, but I'd like to hear any advice you have for me yet again

For anyone who wants to give advice and such here are the videos:
Count vs D12 (snake)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSHjRujIPtc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LkH7LKWrqs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8Bx1SEtq_E

Count vs Diddy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLVNZMAAF4Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soUQkwQBKfQ

Count vs NickA (ICs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXYWn_O5stQ

Count vs JMac (Fox)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnzn_ph5r8s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueWUAR9mxbc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RXfZgiA-cU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRs4nlYn_1s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=780FhOOZ8t0

These are all friendlies, so I wasn't going 100%, but friendlies often show bad habits quite clearly so go ahead and rip me (and my opponents) apart, lol. Thanks!

Hey yeah it's great to critique your improved King Dedede again! We need to meet at a tournament Count. But I doubt it will happen because you live farther than I can travel, in northern California.

For your very first video, I'm glad you're being patient with Snake because we all know he can keep us away very well. Don't charge in on Snake because we'll take more heavy damage. Great job with usage of forward tilt in the beginning.
You gotta switch up your options against Snake though. Don't forward tilt all the time. If it's safe, go for a grab, or RAR a back air, or fullhop down air him.
Just for some pointers, if you see Snake holding his grenade in his hand for longer than you expect, don't try to throw it back at him. It's better to be safe and just shield. If he threw it immediately, then please do tricks, or throw it back. lol
One thing about Snake's neutral air. We beat it easily. Our back air outprioritizes it, and forward air outranges it. Just keep your spacing when fairing or bairing his neutral air, and you win every time.
I saw you above Snake's mortar, and you decided to space yourself instead of destroying it. Always neutral air it. Only back air mortar when you want to hit Snake afterwards in the later frames of the same back air.
Pivotgrabbing while Snake was mortar sliding was sexy. You were invincible there too, so. that's cool. Oh and that was good taking away Snake's jump with ftilt also!!

I'm glad 7Claus mentioned back air OoS. Back air OoS is the most underrated thing about King Dedede, in my opinion, especially against characters we can't chaingrab. It's so safe, and we can space it also. It's like a shield grab but our back is facing them. Do that more boys.

Dark 3nergy · May 6, 2010

so having never really faced good ICs on DDD, anyone got advice on the mu?

dont just say dont get grabbed im well aware of how **** one grab is on the ICs

Countcocofang · May 6, 2010

Thanks for the tips Beef, I'll try and bair OOS more, I just love grabbing too much >.<

As for ICs....ftilt beats blizzard....thats all I got

CO18 · May 6, 2010

How does ftilt beat blizzard lol never works for me

o-Serin-o · May 6, 2010

It doesn't work.

Tmacc · May 6, 2010

Dark 3nergy said:
so having never really faced good ICs on DDD, anyone got advice on the mu?

dont just say dont get grabbed im well aware of how **** one grab is on the ICs

My biggest advice is space FHdairs, Fsmash can be **** in this MU because of their shield lag, take advantage of separations (go for Nana, she iz dum.) stay in the air as much as possible IMO.

when they desync and shoot and ice block in, ROLL BACK. do not shield the ice block, because on of the ICs is coming in for a grab and if you shield, you will get grabbed (Fogo taught me that and it works wonders)

ummm different grabs in different situations, fthrow is really good because it hits both ICS. don't be scared to grab, but definately don't be too conservative; they can work for us

take advantage when they are offstage, separated or not. if they over b at you, uptilt.

space ftilt on them. it annoys the hell out of them and messes up their desync.

mix spaced bair with spaced FHdair, or even lagless fair-->ftilt/dtilt.

That's all i got for now, hope it helps a bit!

Dark 3nergy · May 7, 2010

one thing you didnt mention that scares me is blizzard....

and desynched ones are scary looking

Commander_Beef · May 7, 2010

CO18 said:
How does ftilt beat blizzard lol never works for me

It's because you're not doing it right CO18. You have to be farther away than you think you do. Trust me it works. I've done it several times and it outranges blizzard. Here's proof.

If you want dead evidence that it outranges blizzard, look at 4:57 of this video. It requires MINIMAL spacing if you're not in the right place to outrange it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XIiUnhNpt0

Dark 3nergy · May 7, 2010

ic so keeping close and or camping around the platform seems like thatd be the way to go ontop of staying air borne

lol man that was hella legit button mashing i heard, jesus those locks just hurt my feelings when i have to watch that >:U

nice di though god**** son

vanstrummer · May 8, 2010

I'd like to re-iterate the usefulness of the f-smash in this particular match up, spaced properly and not over used its pretty safe. If Popo shields in time, it pushes them both too far away to punish. If popo perfect shields, the shield lag makes it likely that nana is going to get hit, which usually ko's if not it at least separates them which is always good. Just don't over use it because it can become predictable And the down-smash properly spaced also either separates or pressures the shield.

And lastly, i'm sure its been said 100 times, but DONT GET GRABBED. 1 grab from a decent IC pretty much is a loss of a stock.

And thank you very much for the critique actually the OOS b-airs help a lot ive noticed. I'm going to try to get some more videos to post. We finally got our cap-card working.

I did find a new video or 2

vs. Meta-knight (Unfortunately I found out how to DI after this video was made lol)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWgYZ3GFGBs&feature=related

v.s Falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5FTt3VZImI

dawall250 · May 9, 2010

hey, so I play against a falco very often so I know the matchup rather well.

First, while the fsmash kill was pretty, you throw out fsmash waaaay too much. Especially when he's on the ledge, the only time you hit with it was when both of you were onstage. If he's on the ledge he'll just drop and then jump to phantasm through you after the fsmash is done.

You didn't get grabbed too much which was good, but the falco player kinda liked to approach a lot more than he should be anyways.

Against falco offstage, make sure to mixup your options! Getting a gimp is a mindgame at best. As such, I dislike jumping off everytime to try to get extra damage, and if you should decide to do that, the best moves are bair and dair instead of fair cuz of the long lasting nature of those moves. I prefer to stay on stage most of the time though. This forces the falco player to have pretty much 3 choices. go above, and get punished from the lag, phantasm through you, and risk getting utilted or go for the ledge. needless to say most will go for the ledge if they get hit with utilt when they try to go through you. at that point, you can rack up a nice bit of damage on them cuz his ledge options are eh. his best option is to phantasm through you, but if you see that coming you can roll back and punish his lag (or just utilt). Most other options can be punished with ftilt,dtilt or grab depending on where you are and what he does.

When you're at kill percents against a falco, shield pretty much everything. You can live to 200%+ that way as long as you can get avoid getting juggled. (I've had a match where I got up to 350% and died off the top to a phantasm). A stock like that can turn a game around.

Finally, that falco player needs to use faaaaar more lasers than he did in the match, it can really make it a pain for ddd. if you do come across someone who does laser alllll the time, if you can get the powershield timing down for lasers, the matchup becomes far easier, but still quite annoying.

hope that helps a little.

Sorry I haven't had any vids to critique at all, I haven't been playing much in tourneys and as of late, I haven't even been playing DDD. This summer I plan on changing that though, and hopefully have some vids up here.

AtotheZ · May 9, 2010

vanstrummer said:
I've never posted here but would love to get some of my videos critiqued. now, I have more than this, so I can post more at request. Don't be too hard on me, lol.

But I am looking to advance my game, I feel like sometimes i'm at a standstill with DeDeDe but I don't want to give him up, so hopefully you all can give me some pointers on how to improve my game

Vs. Sheik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiBH3zNMynU

Vs. Pit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGvCvOfbZls

Vs. Snake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA43u9vUC9I

I got beat 2-1 when I faced tutu also.... He two stocked me on bf (which you won, good job), I two stocked him on halberd pretty easily (he has less room to move plus low ceiling), and he ***** me on lylat. I would just say to ban lylat next time, because I couldn't hardly get an opening except through grab mix ups. As for your last counterpick, rainbow cruise, that shouldn't have happened. when you are trapped against the wall because of an A attack, there is something in the game that is called smash DI. bacically if you mash the c-stick in a certain direction, it will change your position, thus escaping the infinite and a potential stock. Here is a vid to show something what it looks like...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MACMxsdMCjk

Good shiz though, the lack of smash DI was your biggest problem but you are pretty solid otherwise. We may see eachother sometime, lol

AtotheZ · May 9, 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hQIy7P7RWo&NR=1

here is a DI vid it includes smash DI

GreenFox · May 9, 2010

Van, you roll to much. and go for alot of inhales at the wrong time and get punished for it, I wouldnt ever inhale against MK but thats me.

Commander_Beef · May 9, 2010

I love the productivity of this thread. It;s good to know that the king's boards aren't only being in the social.

GreenFox said:
Van, you roll to much. and go for alot of inhales at the wrong time and get punished for it, I wouldnt ever inhale against MK but thats me.

Inhaling against MK is fine, but don't overdo it and it serves as a decent grab attack when shorthopping it. Mixing it up against MK is best, if you ever expect to win the matchup.

Tmacc · May 9, 2010

Inhale is a great tool. Especially against MK, as long as, like Beefy said, you aren't predictable with it. Mix in wavbounced of b-reversed inhales with RARed bairs; it works wonders, especially after you condition them to shield the bair. Every D3 should learn to work inhale in to his or her (the her being DE, the female D3 :D ) game. Such a great move, and usually puts you in a great position to follow up.

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