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[Vayseth]

So is the DDD metagame still staling out?

 

[o-Serin-o]

Always has, always will.

 

[DZLE]

It's like the cheese in the back of the fridge.
Melted on toast its **** good.
But it's not getting any less stale.

...
...wut?

 

[moyshe]

So um I need tips on the snake match up. I thought I knew it but I dont. The last two snakes I've fought I only won because I got them down to one stock when I had more than 140% I dedecide them and win lol. Did this in a tournament and AIB ladder. Kids could not get madder.

 

[salsa~]

yo, can u guys gimme some hints?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Oly4g2mpc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD2_A-iRadQ

 

[DZLE]

So um I need tips on the snake match up. I thought I knew it but I dont. The last two snakes I've fought I only won because I got them down to one stock when I had more than 140% I dedecide them and win lol. Did this in a tournament and AIB ladder. Kids could not get madder.

What part of his matchup is giving you trouble?
DDD raeps Snakes. DDD is like a (insert animal here that eats snakes. a bird or something).

Tell me what they are doing thats giving you trouble, or if it's snake as a whole i can point you in the right direction.

And hey, no shame in Dedecide. It's legit. Do what it takes to win, yeah?

Also, ALWAYS Rock Paper Scissors them for 4th port. It's not necessary for you to win, but it definitely helps if he is NOT in 4th port.

 

[Vayseth]

Only thing Snake has over DDD is camping. He can out camp DDD very will. You have to mix up your approach and learn to use grenades against him. After that it's all cake.

 

[Commander_Beef]

So um I need tips on the snake match up. I thought I knew it but I dont. The last two snakes I've fought I only won because I got them down to one stock when I had more than 140% I dedecide them and win lol. Did this in a tournament and AIB ladder. Kids could not get madder.

I can't seem to find the Snake export thread, so I'll just say how the matchup should go down....in my thread. This is my favorite matchup of all time, and I know it more than any other matchup.
This matchup is Even in the current metagame. Why? Because he grenade/C4 camps us real bad, and he keeps us away fairly well with forward tilt. And in exchange to it being even...we have the chaingrab on him, and he gimp him very well offstage. It's all about getting that grab on him while onstage. But that doesn't mean that's your only option.
If you ever play an aggressive Snake [like Ally] or one who does approaching spotdodges or a lot of spotdodges in general [like Mojoe], do fullhop down airs. It ***** them every time and they have no answer for it, not their tilts, no nothing. They won't expect it.
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Before I say everything we can do to his camping, just know that you should mix up all of these options and not stick to one. I learned that a while ago, the videos of me versus Hall only shows air camping, but hey, I made a mistake okay?
There are several different ways to avoid his grenades will he is camping you. The shining strategy is air camping, and waiting for that opening to grab him when you're coming down. Also, don't be afraid to either throw one back at him if he does a wimpy throw, or grab a grenade and approach with shield.
Waddle dees help this matchup more than any other matchups that are in the high tier or top tier range. [They help against Diddy Kong and Zero Suit Samus too, but meh.]
You won't get punished if you're far enough way to throw a couple waddle dees to thwart with his grenades. They help with explosions that are unexpected to Snake and they distract him, enough said about them. Never throw them when he's offstage. Wait until he comes down, or otherwise, keep gimping him while offstage.
If you're in moderate range while he has a grenade in his hand while he is in his shield, don't be afraid to forward tilt him. Be the farthest away to where you can forward tilt him.
If there are no other grenades in front of him, and he has one in his hand while you are semi-close, I have mindgamed Snakes with a simple dash to a forward throw. If they're use to you not approaching, do the opposite, that's called mindgames for you.
And if you manage to grab him while he has grenade in hand, the grenade will drop, and buffer chaingrabs, the timing of the grenade won't blow you up when you're passed him. If you see the timing of the grenade about to blow up, forward throw or up throw, and start buffering the shield button.

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For me...handling his forward tilt is easy. As long as you predict it well and you know when it's going to come, it's fine. We all know that shielding it is the most safe option, so sure, we can do that, no problem. We can never punish him with a grab after he does the full forward tilt though. So do your forward tilt here, or a fullhop down air instead. You won't get punished here either because you'll be far enough away when Snake bumps your shield.
Another thing that nobody else has even mentioned for this matchup, Shield the "knee" portion, then spotdodge the hand. That's the guarenteed strategy if you want to punish with grab. The thing is...normally when I plan to do it, they don't do the "hand" part of the forward tilt, so this situation is all about reactions too. If you react fast enough when you don't see the "hand" coming, you can grab him there too, but normally they jab every time, and that's too fast for our grab. So there's many different outcomes to this, so it's all up to you to react fast enough to what he does.

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Avoiding his up tilt is a sinch because it's predictable while we're on the ground, just shield on reaction. The only time when I get surprised by it, is when I'm in the air, that's when I die from up tilt. But otherwise, I hardly ever get hit by it.
__________________________________________________________________

So now that we've got the grab on him, chaingrabbing him to near the edge, you've got a number of hidden options that I will reveal. 1.) You can down throw once more, to a down tilt, then he'll be forced to upB, which is a gimping opportunity. You should be dashing and jumping immediately after your down tilt because he's only going to upB. 2.) You can grab release him. Keep pummeling if you want a grab release, and if you get a pummel break, back air stage spike. If he air releases, go out there and gimp him with forward air or back air.
3.) You can down throw once more and this situation involves more reactions, and timing.
Some things HE can do by recovering from the down throw:
1.) Jump and airdodge back on to stage. [Or jumping and forward air <----do up tilt to that]
2.) Jump and do the usual upB ascending.
3.) Jump on the ledge.

Now the third option is his safest, but what we have against him here, is to stage spike him with back air before he is close to the ledge. Hardest to time though.
If you forsee him jumping to an airdodge, do the following:

• 
  If at 130% or higher : Up tilt or down smash for the kill

• If at lower than 130% : do a pivot grab

And finally, after he jumps, and you see that little cypher pop up, prepare to jump and forward air him. It's all about reacting to what he does, in summarized form. The reactions take practice. Just know that you're safe from harm when you're edgeguarding him.
4.) Or you can do your standard forward throw when you're near the ledge. Expect an upB from him, so start buffering dash to a jump and gimp.
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If we're ever above him, and he mortars, neutral air is the best mortar cancelling aerial out of the three : [back air, neutral air, down air.]
Neutral air leads to a free grab if we're close enough after you fast fall it, and if he's in the 0-10% range. If we're higher up, and he charges it to the max, neutral air it anyways lol.
If we're in mid range of distance, fastfall neutral air it, do a single jump/puff, dodge his attack and go for a fastfall back air.
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We won't have any problem if we're both airborne. The only info I have for this is... is to learn to smash DI upwards out of his neutral air. Learn to predict his back air correctly, because it'll kill you at high percents. And know that back air outprioritizes his air game, that's it.

And our neutral air helps out this matchup a lot. There are many opportunites to do it when you know that you won't hit him with any other aerial at the moment. It's fast, and Snake's body is large enough to be hit by it. No I don't mean to go spamming it on him, I mean in special situations where he airdodges after upB'ing and our back air/forward air fail, neutral air then. There are situations also involving platforms where I'm forced to neutral air, it's hard to explain, but just add neutral air more to your game for this matchup while we're in the air. But if you're given the opportunity to forward air or back air, do that instead.

As far as killing him with our up tilt, it's somewhat easy we'll be given many chances to do so, mainly when he's already in the air. That's up to your timing of it.

If there's any more concerns on the matchup that I should cover, feel free to ask.

yo, can u guys gimme some hints?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Oly4g2mpc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD2_A-iRadQ

Furst video.... you had a great start with forward tilt. It's good against Kirby. I've always known that using it more than once to a Kirby means that you'll get ounished for it. Just forward tilt one moment at a time.
I see that you have a shield habit....even when your shield is halfway to being broken. If ever the situation happens where you must avoid an attack once again, oh please spotdodge. You'll either get shieldpierced or have the shield broken.
Althought it is great that you're developing a sense of security along with your attacks, otherwise known as spacing.
Also if you want to down throw a Kirby, notice how they land, and if they airdodge before hitting the floor on foot, you can react with another grab.
I saw you try to forward tilt Kirby after down throw... Kirby is one of the four characters that cannot be forward tilt combo'd after down throw. It's not possible. The other three are Luigi, Jigglypuff, and Squirtle.
Slow down your aggressiveness in the air with your aerials, against Kirby only! Even I noticed that I tend to get punished or outspaced but just jumping then doing an aerial. It has to do with the matchup in how spacing is the key. Heed my advice...........

 

[moyshe]

thanks for all the responses guys. I guess what gave me trouble the most was his tilts and jabs and nades, the fact that they could just spot dodge to avoid my cg's was annoying to but thats just cuz I dont buffer.

 

[salsa~]

Furst video.... you had a great start with forward tilt. It's good against Kirby. I've always known that using it more than once to a Kirby means that you'll get ounished for it. Just forward tilt one moment at a time.
I see that you have a shield habit....even when your shield is halfway to being broken. If ever the situation happens where you must avoid an attack once again, oh please spotdodge. You'll either get shieldpierced or have the shield broken.
Althought it is great that you're developing a sense of security along with your attacks, otherwise known as spacing.
Also if you want to down throw a Kirby, notice how they land, and if they airdodge before hitting the floor on foot, you can react with another grab.
I saw you try to forward tilt Kirby after down throw... Kirby is one of the four characters that cannot be forward tilt combo'd after down throw. It's not possible. The other three are Luigi, Jigglypuff, and Squirtle.
Slow down your aggressiveness in the air with your aerials, against Kirby only! Even I noticed that I tend to get punished or outspaced but just jumping then doing an aerial. It has to do with the matchup in how spacing is the key. Heed my advice...........

thanks, so I need to be more defensive right? another stuff.. about the inhale release stuff.. what if the opponent dont mash out? can I still do it?

 

[o-Serin-o]

Only thing Snake has over DDD is camping. He can out camp DDD very will. You have to mix up your approach and learn to use grenades against him. After that it's all cake.

Things have changed.Snake's nades aren't more used as damage builders, but more as an opportunity to get a grab that leads into either a tech chase or a fthrow/bthrow.Using the nades against him only gets you ~11% and a chance for Snake to have his way with you homosexually.You can't really space vs Snake and if you get a grab you have to double jump for the WoPs or w/e you wanna follow up with.

 

[T3h Albino]

You guys should watch co18/seibrik vs any good snake. That's how I learned the matchup, also the write ups that they've made about snake are also good to read.

 

[Commander_Beef]

thanks, so I need to be more defensive right? another stuff.. about the inhale release stuff.. what if the opponent dont mash out? can I still do it?

If the guy doesn't mash out, King Dedede will eventually spit them out automatically. Which makes the inhale release technique completely dependent on what your opponent will do.

 

[Anonymous Brawler]

Any tips on the timing of the infinite? I can't do it even on DK.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Okay I'm gunna need to update one of the FAQ's in the guide because I guess people are too precise on what they're looking for.
You have to buffer another grab. Look at number 21 in the Guide in the original post if you don't know what buffering is, and number 23 for the Ledge Infinite, which is near the same thing as the Standing Infinite.

 

[Anonymous Brawler]

You have to buffer another grab. Look at number 21 in the Guide in the original post if you don't know what buffering is, and number 23 for the Ledge Infinite, which is near the same thing as the Standing Infinite.

I know what buffering is, but I just can't get the timing no matter what I do. I did tried what it said on the ledge infinite, but I always miss the regrab. I guess I'll just do the walking chaingrab on DK and the normal chaingrab on the others.

 

[DZLE]

I guess I'll just do the walking chaingrab on DK and the normal chaingrab on the others.

Those are words of giving up.
D3 players don't give up.
Keep practicing if it takes you hours, days, weeks.
That's how you get the timing down.
you'll get it right one time, then forget how it was.
Then you'll do it again, maybe even remember a bit this time.
Eventually, before you know it, missing a re-grab or CG will be a thing of the past. Not even part of your persona.

 

[iFudge]

Alright i wanna main d3. but only prob is. i know he has alot of bad mu's olimar/falco/ics. and since i play online olimar is a common match-up.
But i was wondering whats a good 2ndary for him. im also good with snake but. they both get ***** by olimar. my other decent chars are wario/diddy. And i dont wanna side mk. cause you can easily fall into main him.
Thank you in advance.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Alright i wanna main d3. but only prob is. i know he has alot of bad mu's olimar/falco/ics. and since i play online olimar is a common match-up.
But i was wondering whats a good 2ndary for him. im also good with snake but. they both get ***** by olimar. my other decent chars are wario/diddy. And i dont wanna side mk. cause you can easily fall into main him.
Thank you in advance.

It's number 8 in the guide.

Those are words of giving up.
D3 players don't give up.
Keep practicing if it takes you hours, days, weeks.
That's how you get the timing down.
you'll get it right one time, then forget how it was.
Then you'll do it again, maybe even remember a bit this time.
Eventually, before you know it, missing a re-grab or CG will be a thing of the past. Not even part of your persona.

These words of wisdom are epic... and excellent. Just like you said DZLE...King Dedede mains never give up. [Or at least I don't give up on certain things about him ] thanks for your input sire.

 

[Vayseth]

I mean, the throw mix up is a part of the camping though, that's why it's so good.

The match up hasn't changed, unless snake has found a way to stop getting chain grabbed.

 

[DZLE]

I am of course happy to input anything and everything to fellow DDD's.
Happy to oblige :D

Also, Beef, good work at SCSA mate. I watched the stream for most the day.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Oh cool! Thanks...
The results are up now actually on the tournament page. Which match did you see me in the live stream?

 

[DZLE]

I don't even remember D:
Watched a lot of matches yesterday... lol
I was watching mainly for one of my best bro's whos a Sonic main and was there.
Blah, I can't remember who like anyone fought.

But, I think I could learn a few things from your DDD that's for sure.

 

[Commander_Beef]

I can't believe you're related to X.... and I was thinking of that too...if this guy is from Utah and X is.....

 

[DZLE]

Not related by blood, but we definitely act like brothers.
He's mexi and i'm white as day, haha...

He's currently teaching me Sonic... ^^ In-depth and all.

You've had chances to play him right?

 

[iFudge]

Another i would like to ask. is d-throw -d-tilt at ledge still good?. I was reading the sexy guide and i didnt see nothing on it.And i was wondering is it still worth me trying to practice on ?. And im suppose to d-throw buffer a quick d-tilt. the one where i pushing slightly down before the crouch animation ?.

 

[Commander_Beef]

If the sexy guide doesn't have the topic you're looking for, it's definitely in the Grand United Royal Guide of King Dedede. That guide has everything else, besides frame data.
And yes to your last question.

 

[moyshe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTVispnJhik

Hey gaaiizzz! Was wondering if you could critique my ddd??

 

[Commander_Beef]

Okay Soviet!
0:14 - You can cancel your UpB faster and more efficient.
I've learned that, if you throw Waddle Dees more often, it only slows down your pace as a slow character. But that's only when against faster characters like Marth and Meta Knight. Keep that in mind because there are better options. And shorthopping them all the time only slows you down even more.

Your King Dedede seems a little too goofy in some moments.
0:22 - You turned around instead of continuing a chaingrab.
0:49 - Finish the chaingrab until you get to the edge instead of forward throwing at the middle of stage.
0:57 - You used up air when the other King Dedede is only in forward air range, on the platform. o_O
1:15 - You turned around again.
1:18 - You're so dumb!! I recommend everybody else watching this just for the laughs. Oh God help me critique this King Dedede correctly. LOL
2:34 - Please correct this too. No forward airs in this situation. It;s so much better to pivot yourself to back airing.

Playing a ditto actually limits the information I can process to help you because of matchup reasons also. But if you want a better and more formal critique, please send another video with another character and one where you aren't so sandbaggy.

 

[moyshe]

thanks for getting back to me! Yeah Im normally not that sloppy with DDD's but it was a friendly and I was just having fun.

 

[DZLE]

thanks for getting back to me! Yeah Im normally not that sloppy with DDD's but it was a friendly and I was just having fun.

Well then if you want a serious critique then get a video of you trying Either Tourney match, Money match, something to get you playing serious.

 

[moyshe]

Well then if you want a serious critique then get a video of you trying Either Tourney match, Money match, something to get you playing serious.

I was trying. But im just saying there were little things were I was just playing sloppy. But in essence this is my DDD at its best.

 

[GanonkingAbyss]

i have a question: did any1 already know this but u can jump over lucas's(it may have been ness but im almost certain it was lucas.) pkfire with DA?, i ran up to some1 camping pkfire and used DA, i went over the pkfire, hit them and won the match.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Yeah of course we can jump over them.
I've never heard of the acronym DA before. What does it stand for?

 

[GanonkingAbyss]

dash attack

 

[Commander_Beef]

Oh that's a great thing to know for the matchups of Ness and Lucas.
So I'm assuming you went UNDER the PK Fire, not over.
Nobody knew this so that's a great thing to point out!

 

[DtJ Hilt]

So I've been watching some of your videos beef and I notice you use inhale quite often, usually to cover your landings or b-reversed to mess up approaches and spacing. Is this just something you do a lot, or is inhale more effective than I thought?

 

[Commander_Beef]

So I've been watching some of your videos beef and I notice you use inhale quite often, usually to cover your landings or b-reversed to mess up approaches and spacing. Is this just something you do a lot, or is inhale more effective than I thought?

Oh okay I'm glad you asked.
To answer your question(s), yes those two examples are exactly what I use it for mostly. Inhale is a great move, much better than you thought. It's a d*** grab attack. Think about that for a moment.
It's most effective when you use it in the air because it catches your opponent offguard, and falling down on your opponent. Opposing to using it on the ground, well, there's a chance their attack might hit you out of it when they are in the wind's 'blow-in'. The superarmor takes effect when the opponent's attack hits at the exact same time as when the 'suck-in' animation comes in.
I also noticed that Inhale has invincibility frames the moment that somebody reaches the inside of your mouth. So you're invulnerable to incoming harm in doubles, for a short time.
It's a great move when used correctly. And it pops them in the air.

 

[DZLE]

I love inhale.

 

[GanonkingAbyss]

Oh that's a great thing to know for the matchups of Ness and Lucas.
So I'm assuming you went UNDER the PK Fire, not over.
Nobody knew this so that's a great thing to point out!

i almost completly sure it went over, he jump canceling it or whatever u call it, like with falcos laser,i hate how i see something then when i put it on swf or aib or something im always doubting wether i got it wrong or somthing, id try to do it again but my wii was broken so we had to send it into nintendo i'll check it when it gets back though and if i can i'll try to get a vid on utube(if it does work..)