Animator(s) Needed for Two new taunts for Snake

Eternal Yoshi · Sep 17, 2010

Team Healer has strange animation data that can't be opened via Brawlbox.
I don't think it's a good idea to use it.

Held items and the fire GFX follow the RHaveN bone in that taunt.
So it doesn't need an animation and a hitbox can be attached to the RHaveN bone too.

Bent 00 · Sep 17, 2010

Nice. Can you only add a hitbox in one spot, or can the hitbox stay on the cigarette as it falls?

Eternal Yoshi · Sep 17, 2010

I can do both, but the hitbox will have to terminate when the animation is over.

TommyDerMeister · Sep 17, 2010

please make a vanilla version of the cig taunt too.

xxTerminatorxx · Sep 17, 2010

Ok, so which item do you wanna replace? I got my model and everything in hand right now that's eager to replace one of Brawl's items.

All it needs is vertex work (Mainly size decrease)

Bent 00 · Sep 17, 2010

Okay, sounds good. However, I just finished playtesting the Smoking taunt, and I've got to say: It already excellent as-is. At first, I thought it was still a bit too short, but I was focusing too much on the aesthetics - after using it often in a few matches, I'd say it's just the right length for a taunt. Really, great job once again Eternal Yoshi!

There's only a few things I'll comment on:

Shoulder Cave-in Glitch (fixed after V0.5 by Eternal Yoshi)
When Snake raises his right arm to smoke, an area of his back behind his right shoulder "caves in":

The Smoke

I see that you moved the smoke's point of origin downward a bit - that helps a lot, but Snake's face still gets enveloped in a pillow of smoke:

It's fine as is, but if you could funnel the smoke somewhat that would be perfect.

Also of note: The smoke effects are not in line with Snake's mouth if you look down from above - the smoke is always closer to the screen:

Not a big deal, but if the smoke could be moved so that it is in line with the middle of Snake's face from a top-down view, then his face wouldn't be obscured as much by the smoke. Instead of looking like this pic:

it would look more like this one:

But adjusting the depth of smoke effects may be impossible for all I know.

Minor Details

Very minor (perhaps even trivial) things I noticed:

- The ember now appears directly between Snake's fingers - it could be moved past his fingers for the best effect.

...On second thought, that would move the ember even farther from him face, and you probably don't want to do that unless you get a cig texture in there. It doesn't look like you can bring his fingers any closer to his mouth... So that's probably about as good as it's going to get without replacing an item to get an actual cigarette.

- Snake's left arm moves really fast - it could be slowed by a tiny fraction of a second (I know I can't light anything that fast, lol). Probably trivial...

Praise

- I noticed you smoothed out the left arm animation, eliminating that one brief awkward arm angle.

- Good job on shrinking the flames and making them follow a path to the ground. I think this is really well done - aside from the things I mentioned above, I think this taunt is excellent as-is. You don't need to worry about giving the cig a hitbox or replacing items to gain a visible cig texture that will be too tiny to see anyway...

But you can try doing that if you want, of course - who knows, it might be even better.

Bent 00 · Sep 17, 2010

Just so I'm clear about what I think of replacing an item to get an actual cigarette texture:

It's fine to make one version of the taunt with such enhanced effects at the cost of one item, but let's be sure to make a vanilla version too - more or less what we already have, except for any future aesthetic edits - that does not sacrifice any item. I say this because losing even one item may annoy some people.

Eternal Yoshi shot down the following idea, so never mind it:

Lastly, I had an idea:

irishladdie727 suggested that we make interchangeable taunts instead of two distinct packs, so people can pick and choose which taunts they want. I thought it would be better to keep it down to two distinct packs to minimize desynchronization online and in replays...

But what if up taunt and side taunt were the same length? The thing that causes desync is when a move is longer or shorter than the game thinks it's supposed to be, or has/lacks some other effect that the game thinks it is/is not supposed to have, right?

I thought of this upon noticing that the Salute and Smoking taunts are very nearly the same length. The Cloaking Device could be too, when it's finished. If this idea worked, people could pick:

1.) Which two of the following three taunts they want as up taunt and side taunt: Salute, Smoking, and Cloaking Device.

2.) Whether they want the Vanilla Box or the Moving/Grenade/C4 Box (known henceforth as the "Enhanced Box"). Each major Brawl mod/group should pick one or the other as standard. Down taunt will always be reserved for the Box.

...without causing desynchronization. Does that make any sense?

Update: Gah, just remembered that we have the original up taunt's "enter box" animation over the original down taunt "enter box" animation. That means that vBrawlers with the original, unedited set of Snake's taunts might desync with other vBrawlers who have the the new down taunt, even the Vanilla one.

This could only be fixed (as far as I can guess) by:

A.) Reserving up taunt for the box instead of down taunt

B.) Replacing the current, faster "enter box" animation with the original down taunt's slower "enter box" animation

Of course, this issue wouldn't be a problem for the big Brawl mods - Brawl+, Brawl-, Balanced Brawl, and Project: Melee - assuming they each adopt the Vanilla Box OR the Enhanced Box and make it a standard part of each release.

Update 2: After further consideration, I realized that this plan can never be perfect for no-hacks vBrawlers VS minimal-hacks vBrawlers, since the original up taunt and side taunt will always be looking for the box's mobile hitbox and effects (player tag disappears, box is grab-able by opponents), and Salute/Smoking/Cloaking Device will not have that hitbox or effects.

My idea would work for no-hacks vBrawlers VS minimal-hacks vBrawlers only if neither party taunted. Hmm...

Let's not worry so much about no-hacks vBrawlers VS minimal-hacks vBrawlers, and focus mainly on everybody else: vBrawl with minimal hacks, Brawl+, Brawl-, Balanced Brawl, and Project: Melee. My plan to have the three interchange-able taunts be the same length with the same effects (no hitboxes, basically) should work for them... "Offering customization and minimizing desynchronization!" :D

TommyDerMeister · Sep 17, 2010

I don't think replacing a useless item would make it non-vanilla. Perhaps that clock that alter's the speed of the game for a short while, maybe even hot-head

Bent 00 · Sep 17, 2010

Now, see, an item one person thinks is useless may be well-loved by another.

Case in point, the clock is a favorite item of one of my friends I play Brawl+/- with (moreso when it had weird, glitchy properties, but nonetheless...). If one item is to be replaced by the cigarette, I'd say replace the Smoke Ball... But if all you gain is a tiny cigarette texture, most people will probably just keep the Smoke Ball. Now if it had a mobile hitbox and stylish trajectory to offer as well, that would be a different story... Let's see what Eternal Yoshi has to say.

Also, if my idea to offer customization and minimize desynchronization by making the Salute, Smoking, and Cloaking Device the same length with the same effects is sound, then making an enhanced version of the Smoking taunt would mess it up...

Update: Eternal Yoshi says this idea won't work. :/

xxTerminatorxx · Sep 17, 2010

Eh, your right. Why can't we replace ONE of the food items? I mean, there are so many: I think it would be simple to see Snake smoking one, but couldn't we keep the certain food item (Cig) from spawning regularly? Like if we were to replace the Burger food item with the cig, then have it spawn in Snake's mouth.

Is this possible?

Bent 00 · Sep 17, 2010

Now there's an idea that sounds like it could work. Would the food items being 2-D be a problem, I wonder?

If it works, maybe Snake can summon a lighter too.

BTW, here's a relevant post from KC-MM:

Bent 00 said:
irishladdie727 said:

That said, I find the cloaking kind of pointless. It's really easy to find Snake and punish him, pretty much as easy as if he were visible, although I guess that makes it not broken...?

Click to expand...

Don't underestimate it. As LC-DDM said:

LC-DDM said:

You can't predict what attack the opponent is going to do though, so it always leaves you with a window of doubt and the opponent with a window of opportunity.

Click to expand...

That is balanced out by the fact that Snake becomes visible if he shields or ledgegrabs, which encourages the Snake player to keep his or her defenses open... I'd still say Snake has the upper hand with perfect invisibility, but we can only know how broken or balanced it is for sure by playtesting it against human opponents, which - as far as I know - no one has done yet. :/

irishladdie727 said:

There are probably only a handful of stages where the player tag doesn't follow you around, and those are so small as to make invisibility pretty worthless since you're just going to be constantly bumping into each other. Unless you can find a way to temporarily get rid of the player tag, I'd say this one's as good as it's going to get and we should move on to the walking box taunt.

Click to expand...

Having invisibility remove the player tag would definitely make the Cloaking Device broken. Plus, it would be hard for the Snake player to know where Snake is. >_>

mariofan1138 said:

As minor as the cloaking device may seem, there are always going to be those few situations that disrupt normal, fair gameplay. Personally I dislike PSAs with invisibility; however, if there is a way to give a slight translucent layer on top of Snake, that would be perfectly fine.

Click to expand...

Friedslick6 said:

I think that's a very good idea. We could even make that translucent layer a cool green for the MGS:TTS Snake.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I believe someone said earlier that only perfect invisibility is possible in Brawl.

I agree, it would have been a cool effect, but it would have knocked the Cloaking Device down from being useful to being a mere novelty.

(actually, there are codes for on-the-fly texture switching now (3P+ matches only) - I wonder if the Cloaking Device taunt could trigger a change to a mostly transparent Snake texture, with some kind of light green or clear distortion effect... It's most likely not feasible for now.)

Bent 00 · Sep 17, 2010

I think we need to decide on the moving hitbox & stylish trajectory deal, and release one version of the Smoking taunt, not two.

If Terminator's idea to replace a food item with a cigarette texture works, then we can have the cig texture, no problem - that solution would keep us from having to replace one of the useful items, and I'm thinking we could even add a lighter texture as well. They might be in 2-D, though, like the food items. >_> Hopefully Eternal Yoshi can clarify if this idea will work or not.

Now, the important part: Do we keep the Smoking taunt as it is now - version 0.5 - functionality-wise, or do we add a mobile hitbox and stylish trajectory? It currently has no hitbox, and no fancy trajectory - Snake merely drops it at his feet. Very simple and well-done, IMO. This taunt should draw no complaints from the Vanilla / minimal hacks crowd.

Option B is to effectively make the Smoking taunt like the vanilla Box taunt attack-wise - after Snake smokes for a second, he would toss the cigarette in some way similar to the way he tosses his box, and this cigarette could inflict minor fire damage and minor knockback - just enough for a "Cig KO"

.

Another idea is for the taunt to be of variable length: Snake could continue smoking indefinitely until a certain button is pressed or a certain amount of time passes, at which point he tosses the cigarette. If Snake smokes for more than a second or two, he could begin to take 1% damage repeatedly until he stops, just like in MGS: tTS. If Snake's smoking is interrupted by an attack, the cigarette could either harmlessly disappear, or drop straight down, possibly hurting an advancing opponent (this would probably be cheap for a taunt - better to keep it harmless if hit).

Just some ideas, feel free to comment. I'm thinking we should keep the Smoking taunt as-is (except for future aesthetic changes), and only add a cigarette texture - and possibly a lighter texture - if we can port those over one or two of the abundant food items. (...who wants to bet that's not going to work... It can't be that easy, can it?

)

Bent 00 · Sep 17, 2010

Eternal Yoshi, I'm afraid you have a lot of reading to do, lol. :chuckle:

On the bright side, we're just polishing up the Basic Pack now - it's almost done!

Eternal Yoshi · Sep 17, 2010

Leave the taunt slots alone. Switching them will throw the parameters such as the GFX, SFX, and so on out of Sync.

You don't want a flaming salute or smoking a box do you?

Note to self: Never use LShoulderN or RShoulderN for animations ever again.
I fixed his shoulder.

Which item I replace is dependent on what properties or animations it has.
Some items have animation data that BB cannot open which may cause odd side effects when overwritten.

Bent 00 · Sep 17, 2010

Okay, it was just an idea. I thought that perhaps if Brawler A with Cloaking Device on side taunt was facing Brawler B who has Smoking on side taunt, and Brawler A used side taunt, then it would show up as the Cloaking Device for Brawler A and Smoking for Brawler B, causing no desync since both taunts would be the same length and no hitboxes. I was wrong.

That means that we should go with the original idea of having two distinct packs: Basic and Stealth.

The basic is pretty much done, unless you want to edit the appearance of the Smoking taunt any further. Thanks for fixing the Shoulder Cave-in glitch.

Eternal Yoshi, what do you think of Terminator's idea to replace a food item with a cigarette texture (and possibly another one with a lighter texture)? Can that work?

Bent 00 · Sep 17, 2010

Eternal Yoshi said:
You don't want a flaming salute or smoking a box do you?

No, but those would be pretty funny. :laugh:

Eternal Yoshi said:
Which item I replace is dependent on what properties or animations it has.
Some items have animation data that BB cannot open which may cause odd side effects when overwritten.

So which items do you think are good candidates for the cigarette texture? I'm hoping two of the food items will work, but I know it's almost never that easy. :/

Bent 00 · Sep 17, 2010

mariofan1138][QUOTE=Bent 00 said:
Another idea is for the taunt to be of variable length: Snake could continue smoking indefinitely until a certain button is pressed or a certain amount of time passes, at which point he tosses the cigarette. If Snake smokes for more than a second or two, he could begin to take 1% damage repeatedly until he stops, just like in MGS: tTS. If Snake's smoking is interrupted by an attack, the cigarette could either harmlessly disappear, or drop straight down, possibly hurting an advancing opponent (this would probably be cheap for a taunt - better to keep it harmless if hit).

I think this idea sounds great, if the loop/everything else is possible to code. It gives the taunt a neat flair to have it damage Snake; yet it gives a non-damaging alternative to the taunt.[/quote]

While it would make the taunt unique, it would not really be practical unless you're holding on to the cigarette for a reason... Such as waiting for just the right moment to flick it at a recovering opponent for a Cig KO. >.>

I would only be in favor of implementing this bit if the cigarette gets a hitbox, which probably isn't going to happen since vBrawlers want a plain, no-tricks Smoking taunt. If the cig doesn't have a hitbox, there's no advantage to holding on to the cig for any longer - it's only going to damage Snake.

Whether we give the cigarette a hitbox or not depends on a few things: Will players of Brawl+ and Project: Melee mind if we give the cig a hitbox? Or would they prefer a no-hitbox version like I'm sure the vBrawl and BB crowd will? Brawl- players would probably welcome the hitbox, if they have the cig at all - they may choose to replace it entirely with the Cloaking Device.

Second of all, we don't know what items can be replaced by the cigarette yet. That's a big factor - if only useful or well-loved items will work, it's not really worth sacrificing them just to give the Smoking taunt a texture and a hitbox.

Bent 00 · Sep 18, 2010

What I want to know from Eternal Yoshi:

- What items are candidates for the cigarette to replace?

What I want to know from players of Vanilla Brawl, Brawl+, Brawl-, Balanced Brawl, and testers of Project: Melee:

- Which version of the Smoking taunt do you want? Hitbox or no hitbox? If getting an actual cigarette texture in-game requires sacrificing a (yet to be specified) item, do you still want it, or are you happy with the invisible cigarette and lighter, as seen in current version 0.5?

- Which version of the Box do you want?

Vanilla Box (original up taunt),
Moving Box (Snake can move around under the box),
or Stealth Box (Snake can move around and possibly drop C4 and Grenades silently while under the box)?

xxTerminatorxx · Sep 18, 2010

It's hard to say, oh, and Old Snake's scar is on the wrong side of the face, but I flipped it. I also combined Pik's Old Snake's face with the other Old Snake's body and I will release it in my pack. It looks awesome in the BrawlBox preview.

Eh, maybe a cigaratte article isn't much of a good idea, and it's the thing that's stopping you from your work. People tell me on a Math test or so, if you encounter a problem, don't waste your time on somthing hard, skip it and finish all the stuff you can do.

I think we should put aside the cig article FOR NOW and finish what else needs to be finished, then I/you can release the article IF you can get one in a next update on KC:MM.

Also, Bent 00, and others, I want a meeting on my xat chat www.xat.com/Solid_Snake
so we can discuss about these taunts since asking over a forum is too difficult.

Oh, and this should be his Box taunt texture:

Bent 00 · Sep 18, 2010

I agree - the smoking taunt is good as-is (though I would like to see the smoke funnelled a bit, and aligned with Snake's center from a top-down view, if possible), so we can start looking at what we can do with the box. The ball is in Eternal Yoshi's court ATM...

I can do the chat early tomorrow if you like. BTW, did you add the vertexed Solid Eye to your Old Snake mix? You could have two versions, one with and one without - more options FTW.

xxTerminatorxx · Sep 18, 2010

Bent 00 said:
I agree - the smoking taunt is good as-is (though I would like to see the smoke funnelled a bit, and aligned with Snake's center from a top-down view, if possible), so we can start looking at what we can do with the box. The ball is in Eternal Yoshi's court ATM...

I can do the chat early tomorrow if you like. BTW, did you add the vertexed Solid Eye to your Old Snake mix? You could have two versions, one with and one without - more options FTW.

Ok, I'll try to add the Solid Eye. I also did some texture work on MGS:TTS, mainly stuff you won't notice unless you have Eagle Eyes except for the body texture. I slightly edited Plisken a bit, and I re-did MGS2 Snake. NO MOAR glitches, for now at least.

Screw the body armor, those certain textures from MGS:TTS are too difficult to use in Brawl anyways.

I also thought it would be a good idea to give Snake the Punch-Punch-Upkick-Kick from
MGS4, but Snake's default combo is only 3 animations long. I guess I will have to skip one of the punches.

Eternal Yoshi · Sep 18, 2010

I really need help with my insomnia......
I can't turn on the wii to test the new parameters now, so for now, here's the fixed Smoking animation.
http://www.mediafire.com/?x1y7cjn79jjwco8

Putting the Cracker Launcher over the Smokeball caused it to load perfectly, but it doesn't respond to my size changes.

Replacing the food items is not a good idea. The game generates the food item randomly.

I need to check something.

Bent 00 · Sep 18, 2010

xxTerminatorxx said:
Ok, I'll try to add the Solid Eye. I also did some texture work on MGS:TTS, mainly stuff you won't notice unless you have Eagle Eyes except for the body texture. I slightly edited Plisken a bit, and I re-did MGS2 Snake. NO MOAR glitches, for now at least.

Nice, looking forward to seeing the new textures. Did you fix Plisken's robo-ears, lol? Also, since you're going to try adding the Solid Eye, there's something I'd like to note:

You're mostly likely going to port the straps from Gyarando's texture, right? Well, I don't know if this is possible - it depends on how the top of Snake's hair texture works - but there's actually a third strap on the Solid Eye missing from Gyarando's version. It would be great if you could add it in there properly. Comparison pics:

VS

See that third strap semi-hidden by Snake's hair?

xxTerminatorxx said:
Screw the body armor, those certain textures from MGS:TTS are too difficult to use in Brawl anyways.

So the Bulletproof vest didn't work out, then? Too bad... What makes 'em so difficult to use?

xxTerminatorxx said:
I also thought it would be a good idea to give Snake the Punch-Punch-Upkick-Kick from MGS4, but Snake's default combo is only 3 animations long. I guess I will have to skip one of the punches.

I haven't played MGS4 yet (I own all the main Metal Gear games, just don't have the time to play 'em lately), so I don't know what this animation looks like... But I can tell you that most Snake mains are really happy with Snake's current AAA combo. It's one of the best in the game. Unless this MGS4 combo is even better (which would probably be broken, since the original is so good), most people will probably stick with the default AAA combo.

If you do include any moveset changes in your pac, just make sure they're clearly separate from the cosmetic changes, for the "minimal hacks/gameplay changes" crowd.

Bent 00 · Sep 18, 2010

Eternal Yoshi said:
I really need help with my insomnia......

I had the same problem, until I started turning off my computer at 11:30 pm and sleeping from about 12 am to 8-9 am.

Eternal Yoshi said:
I can't turn on the wii to test the new parameters now, so for now, here's the fixed Smoking animation.
http://www.mediafire.com/?x1y7cjn79jjwco8

Putting the Cracker Launcher over the Smokeball caused it to load perfectly, but it doesn't respond to my size changes.

Replacing the food items is not a good idea. The game generates the food item randomly.

I need to check something.

I'll test it.

xxTerminatorxx · Sep 18, 2010

Ok, I finally woke up. No, I didn't fix Plisken ears, I need somone to vertex..

Also, the vest textures (Ripped ones) are waay to difficult to use. It's the way they are arranged on the file, same with Snake's body texture, it's to complicated to make a good texture. I was lucky to make MGS:TTS Snake's body.

Bent 00 · Sep 18, 2010

Eternal Yoshi, I just finished testing the new Smoking taunt. The only change you made was to fix the Cave-in Glitch, right? Well, while that had been fixed, now Snake's actual right shoulder gets distorted:

It doesn't look as bad as the Cave-in glitch did - Snake's arm just looks a bit dislocated at the shoulder.

As for the rest of the Smoking taunt...

- Can we make the ember/fireball any smaller than it is now? It's still pretty big:

While it looks good from a distance, it does look like Snake's breathing fire if you zoom up close.

- Can you funnel the smoke somewhat so that it doesn't pillow Snake's face as much?

The Smoke

I see that you moved the smoke's point of origin downward a bit - that helps a lot, but Snake's face still gets enveloped in a pillow of smoke:

It's fine as is, but if you could funnel the smoke somewhat that would be perfect.

- From a top-down perspective, can you align the center of the Smoke with the center of Snake's face?

Also of note: The smoke effects are not in line with Snake's mouth if you look down from above - the smoke is always closer to the screen:

Not a big deal, but if the smoke could be moved so that it is in line with the middle of Snake's face from a top-down view, then his face wouldn't be obscured as much by the smoke. Instead of looking like this pic:

it would look more like this one:

But adjusting the depth of smoke effects may be impossible for all I know.

Please keep up the great work.

Bent 00 · Sep 18, 2010

From KC-MM:

Bent 00 said:
irishladdie727 said:

I think we need to stop pandering to the major mods, and do what we want to do. That's why I suggested releasing the taunts individually so people can pick and choose. There's no reason to confine ourselves or not go forward with ideas we like just because we don't think they'll be officially adopted. That shouldn't be the goal. The goal is making fun new taunts for Snake. I play Brawl + exclusively, and I would love to have the cigarette taunt. However, I'm not a pro.

Click to expand...

I'm just trying to think ahead. We do want these taunts to see widespread use, right? Well, what better way to do that than to get the major Brawl mods to adopt them?

That said, we can just make two versions of the Smoking taunt for now: A basic, fixed-length version with no hitbox (pretty much what we have now)...

and a gimmick version, which can have a mobile hitbox, be of variable length, and damage Snake if he smokes for too long.

I have another suggestion for the packs' setup, tell me what you all think:

Basic Pack (suitable for all versions of Brawl) (nearly complete)
Up Taunt: Salute
Side Taunt: Smoking (basic, fixed-length version with no hitbox)
Down Taunt: Box (Snake's original up taunt)

Plus Pack (suitable for all versions except Vanilla Brawl and Balanced Brawl)
Up Taunt: Salute
Side Taunt: Smoking+ (mobile hitbox, fire damage ≤ 3%, variable length, damages Snake if he smokes too long) *
Down Taunt: Mobile Box (Snake can move around under the box, variable length) *

Stealth Pack (suitable for Brawl-, maybe Brawl+ and Project: Melee)
Up Taunt: Salute
Side Taunt: Cloaking Device (perfect invisibility except for player tag, lost if Snake shields, ledgegrabs, or is hit)
Down Taunt: Stealth Box (move around and silently drop C4 or grenades under box, variable length) *

* Yet to be confirmed as possible

irishladdie727 said:

All that said, there's no reason at all we couldn't have a balanced cigarette taunt. It should damage Snake if held for too long, that way he can't "plan" for someone to run into him or else he'll end up hurting himself. And the hitbox itself should be small, like the other sweetspot type moves, incur fire damage and a good amount of vertical knockback, but only do like 12% damage at most. The best parallel I can think of right now is getting blasted by the spicy curry.

Click to expand...

I agree with all that except for the damage bit. 12% damage is way too much - the box only does 2%, and Luigi's down taunt only does 1%. We need to keep it in line with those, since it is a taunt we're making here. I'm thinking 3% fire damage.

Of course, there's still this obstacle in the way of the Smoking+ taunt:

Bent 00 said:

Second of all, we don't know what items can be replaced by the cigarette yet. That's a big factor - if only useful or well-loved items will work, it's not really worth sacrificing them just to give the Smoking taunt a texture and a hitbox.

Click to expand...

Without a visible cigarette texture, we're stuck with the basic Smoking taunt.

Bent 00 · Sep 18, 2010

Eternal Yoshi said:
Putting the Cracker Launcher over the Smokeball caused it to load perfectly, but it doesn't respond to my size changes.

If you've got Snake smoking a Cracker Launcher-sized cigarette, you've got to take a screenshot and post it, lol.

Eternal Yoshi · Sep 18, 2010

For the 3 questions, yes, yes, and yes.
I'm at my Wii bopping back and forth.

http://www.mediafire.com/?3pa9l30g8vko9ff

Check the parameters of the Smoke now.

Edit: I need to reboot so BRB.

Bent 00 · Sep 18, 2010

I just finished testing it.

The ember looks better, but can it be even smaller?

The smoke is improved as well - Snake's face is no longer pillowed by it:

The smoke is only lined up with the center of Snake's face from a top-down view if he smokes while facing right:

Facing left:

Facing right:

Snake's right shoulder still looks dislocated when he smokes:

I'd say your Basic Smoking taunt is complete, unless you want to:

- Shrink the ember even more
- Line up the smoke with the center of Snake's head from a top-down view
- Fix the dislocated shoulder bit of distortion

Excellent work, as usual. So, what do you want to do next? There's the Mobile/Stealth Box, and Smoking+ (just add a hitbox)... But we can only do that one if a cigarette can be imported. How did that go?

Also, did you finish the Cloaking Device taunt? I know you said you made it so that "guard up" doesn't reveal Snake, but did you edit the animation so that he only crouches instead of bowing all the way down? I only tested the first version of that taunt.

Lastly, on a different note: I combined Pik's Old Snake's head texture with the body texture of Gyarando's Old Snake, and added a strap that was missing from the Solid Eye. Take a look:

Eternal Yoshi · Sep 19, 2010

That arm is tricky to fix. Using the other shoulder bone distorts the right part of his back.

I can make the flame smaller, but you may not be able to see it.

xxTerminatorxx · Sep 19, 2010

I know it's late, but I knew your taunt pack would have a glitch somwhere. I continously used Snake's taunts in Brawl until I found one, and I did. It's not freezing-issue-bad, but it's actually kinda funny.

If you press the down taunt, which is the fast box, once the animation is over WITHOUT pressing any buttons to interupt it, Snake will continue to do the "lifting up box" animation forever unless you move or attack. Check your PSA for "loop."

Other than that, they work great. I still have the Stealth Camo version lol.
I might just switch it over to Cigs once you are done, since the Stealth is kinda weird but cool at the same time.

Bent 00 · Sep 19, 2010

That was fixed a while back, Terminator - by the first version of the Smoking taunt, IIRC.

Eternal Yoshi:

Keep the shoulder as-is - the current distortion is not as bad as the previous "cave-in" distortion was.

Would you make the flame as small as possible without becoming invisible from a distance? If that doesn't work out, we can keep the current size.

Also, what do you think of giving the Smoking taunt a hitbox where the cigarette hits the ground? It could work just like Luigi's down taunt, except with fire:

Luigi's down taunt spike - Basic example

Luigi's down taunt spike - More examples

...This would probably be overkill, since Snake already has the box for taunt kills, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

Question roundup for page 11:
- From a top-down view, is the smoke alignable with the center of Snake's head? The smoke is currently only noticeably misaligned when Snake smokes facing left; Smoking facing right is aligned well enough.
- Is the Cloaking Device taunt finished? Does the animation stop with Snake crouching on one knee, or does he still bow all the way down?
- How did the cigarette import go? Did the replacement work over any item(s)?
- What next? The Basic Pack is almost done.

xxTerminatorxx · Sep 20, 2010

You guys got to check this out, I could never figure this one out at ALL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cahoquWAf8c&feature=related

Skip to 1:23 and tell me what you think.
If you didn't notice it, Snake pointed the RPG upwards AT HIS OPPONENT!!

Now, all we got to do is assume if this is a hack, glitch, or it's actual fair gameplay. Now, if this is a glitch/real, we just need to find a PSA special action that will allow him to do this all the time. Of all my times Brawling with Snake, I have NEVER seen this.

MonkUnit · Sep 21, 2010

IIRC that is doing an fsmash while holding an item. IIRC it is possible to do an fsmash whilst holding an item but the timing is specific.

TommyDerMeister · Sep 21, 2010

all you have to do is shield drop a grenade and pick it back up with A, BUT don't let go of A, then do a fsmash with the c-stick all while still holding A and snake will hold his rpg toward his opponent. But yeah I think you can do it with any item that you can hold, you just need to always be holding A when you're picking it up and holding it.

I've known about this glitch for a while now, I'm pretty sure it doesn't alter the hitbox of the fsmash at all though.

xxTerminatorxx · Sep 21, 2010

If we could use the Nikita's Missle article, somone have the RPG spawn one that can move very fast, about 1000 times quicker, and have it damage as much as the RPG-7 normally would.
I hope somone who is talented enough with PSA and BrawlBox can do this.

For the Stealth taunt, and getting rid of the player tag, why can't somone insert a PSA action that takes it away? I mean, I think there is one in the default box taunt. If nobody does that I could put that action in.

Also, I released meh Snake pack, or Metal Gear Solid Finally comes to Brawl.

It has most importaintly, the Stealth taunt and saluting. I WILL update it in the future with the Cigs taunt once it is finished.
I also textured Snake's RPG and Mortar to look the way they did in MGS4.

It CONTAINS alot MOAR.

Bent 00 · Sep 22, 2010

xxTerminatorxx said:
If we could use the Nikita's Missle article, somone have the RPG spawn one that can move very fast, about 1000 times quicker, and have it damage as much as the RPG-7 normally would.
I hope somone who is talented enough with PSA and BrawlBox can do this.

Snake's Nikita missile can cross the length of Final Destination in about 3 seconds, IIRC. Time for some math: 3 seconds divided by 1000 = 0.003 seconds to cross FD.

That would be a light-speed rocket. T__T

xxTerminatorxx said:
For the Stealth taunt, and getting rid of the player tag, why can't somone insert a PSA action that takes it away? I mean, I think there is one in the default box taunt. If nobody does that I could put that action in.

Making the player tag invisible too would make the Cloaking Device broken, IMO. Feel free to try it out if you can, though.

xxTerminatorxx · Sep 22, 2010

Maybe not 1000 times faster, but alot faster. Fast enough to where it would be hard to dodge. Maybe it could be 4x as fast as Falco's laser. It's an RPG-7, it's going to be fast.

Bent 00 · Sep 22, 2010

But not 1000x faster, lol.

Animator(s) Needed for Two new taunts for Snake

I've covered ban wars, you know

Smash Apprentice

I've covered ban wars, you know

Smash Lord

Smash Journeyman

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Smash Journeyman

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

I've covered ban wars, you know

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

Smash Journeyman

Smash Apprentice

Smash Journeyman

I've covered ban wars, you know

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

Smash Journeyman

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

I've covered ban wars, you know

Smash Apprentice

I've covered ban wars, you know

Smash Journeyman

Smash Apprentice

Smash Journeyman

Project M Back Roomer

Smash Lord

Smash Journeyman

Smash Apprentice

Smash Journeyman

Smash Apprentice

Information

Network