Pikachu boards think they may have found a ~30% to death combo on almost everyone

Sukai · Jun 22, 2009

That's a lot of disrespect you're giving to the people who made such decisions.

In any case, my point was if this infinite was really that powerful and massively exploited, it would be in consideration for the ban stick.

Prawn · Jun 22, 2009

Yaaay said:
... This looks scary ;O

Anyway, the title says: Pikachu boards think they may have found a ~30% to death combo on almost everyone

So, who isn't almost everyone?

Ice Climbers when Nana is alive, because I'll just charge fsmash you off the face of the planet.

SuSa · Jun 22, 2009

_Sync_ said:
This seems rather difficult to perform unless you have 100% precision

The trick is not standing up. Just roll, or get up attack.

SDI if you get caught

Tech when you land because it looks like it would take some time for Pikachu to position itself

Or space yourself accordingly, but don't focus too much on this because they might use it as a feint.

It's not hard to perform. I'm a Snake main and was able to pull this off with no prior practice.
After being hit by the up-B, you are forced to stand up. IT IS A LOCK. This was also in Melee. (Most often used with jabs to force a standup. Jigglypuff's Jab to punish a missed tech > rest was sexy)
SDI won't really help you. The Pikachu can just follow you. Going near and edge? That's just making you die earlier from thunder.
You cannot tech footstools. I don't understand why people still believe you can. (I might make a post of commonly mistaken things, this being one of them)
Pikachu's uair is exactly a Ganon utilt... it's not the hardest thing to hit with, especially considering Pikachu has QAC.

hichez50 said:
The inital set up is so hard. Considering you have to face the opposite direction they are. I here a MK sidestep to dsmash coming. Then on top of that can you roll out of it. Also if you yell something really obnoxious the pikachu might mess up.

The initial setup isn't very hard, situational - but not hard. You also cannot roll out of it.

Also yelling generally doesn't mess people up on relatively simply inputs. (C-stick up, Jump, Jump, Up-B and hold down. Jump, C-stick up. repeat), contrary to "popular" belief.

ruin` said:
I'd like to point out a few problems as to why this is simply hype.

1-Focusing on landing u.air will can be recognized by an opponent and can be punished.

2-Certain stages say no. Pokemonstadium1-2 changes, platforms on castle siege and other stages, etc etc.

3-Players learn to play the character smartly. From ~20-30% they tactically place themselves at or on the ledge.

Who actually focuses entirely on landing a certain move? You don't see good IC mains just spamming dash grabs/shield grabs in hopes of getting a grab. They wait, they play patient, and they do it when they can.

Yes, platform camping could avoid this. Same with staying near the ledge. Also more and more people are adding the ledge rule, so being on the ledge is stupid. (Also say hello to Pika' up-B. I've seen a few players gimped while trying to plank with a non-multi jump/godlike recovery character.

cman · Jun 22, 2009

SuSa said:
After being hit by the up-B, you are forced to stand up. IT IS A LOCK. This was also in Melee. (Most often used with jabs to force a standup. Jigglypuff's Jab to punish a missed tech > rest was sexy)

You cannot tech footstools. I don't understand why people still believe you can. (I might make a post of commonly mistaken things, this being one of them)

Pikachu's uair is exactly a Ganon utilt... it's not the hardest thing to hit with, especially considering Pikachu has QAC.

In brawl+, you can tech footstools and you aren't forced to get up after getting hit on the ground (ie you can always roll, stand, or attack off the ground no matter the circumstances). I'm sure those two facts cause a lot of the confusion here, fyi.

For the ganon utilt thing.... what??

Marcbri · Jun 22, 2009

cman said:
In brawl+, you can tech footstools and you aren't forced to get up after getting hit on the ground (ie you can always roll, stand, or attack off the ground no matter the circumstances). I'm sure those two facts cause a lot of the confusion here, fyi.

but this isn't brawl+.

I Don't know how everyone's saying this is hard to perform btw, Pika is one of my worse chars and I can already do it in real matches lol.

cman · Jun 22, 2009

Marcbri said:
but this isn't brawl+.

No, but that is irrelavent. Because of b+, a lot of people think that you can tech footstools in brawl as well, and that was my point.

chubb-o-wub · Jun 22, 2009

Does anyone think that this lock would be ban-worthy if the results of the mosttourneys result in Pikachus winning with this?

SuSa · Jun 22, 2009

cman said:
In brawl+, you can tech footstools and you aren't forced to get up after getting hit on the ground (ie you can always roll, stand, or attack off the ground no matter the circumstances). I'm sure those two facts cause a lot of the confusion here, fyi.

For the ganon utilt thing.... what??

1) This isn't Brawl+ that is irrelevant

2) Considering this is not in the Brawl+ boards and the whole teching footstools in Brawl+ is actually pretty new and is a change (I do believe they say so) the fact it is a change should mean that you cannot in Brawl.

3) How many Ganon's do you see hitting with utilt compared to the amuont of times you see them use it? Now how many Pikachu's do you see hitting with uair compared to the amount of times you see them use it?

[FBC] ESAM · Jun 22, 2009

(creator of original thread here)

This technique does not HAVE to start at the %s it says on the OP of the real thread. It can start FROM there, to basically any %. You will just need to either SH or FH, or hit with a different part of the tail...and it is amazing.

Also, if you aren't confident in getting the constant uair-footstools, you could always just Quick attack lock for a while and then can start it again whenever you want.

ndayday · Jun 22, 2009

SuSa said:
1) This isn't Brawl+ that is irrelevant

2) Considering this is not in the Brawl+ boards and the whole teching footstools in Brawl+ is actually pretty new and is a change (I do believe they say so) the fact it is a change should mean that you cannot in Brawl.

cman said:
No, but that is irrelavent. Because of b+, a lot of people think that you can tech footstools in brawl as well, and that was my point.

Pay attention, Susa!

I think it's pretty neat...it's funny how all these infinites are now suddenly being found, with a move that had to this point been seen as somewhat useless. But yeah anyway, it's really easy...It took me like 5 minutes to get it down. >_>

[FBC] ESAM · Jun 22, 2009

Also guys, you aren't giving credit to how difficult it is. It isn't the hardest thing to do, but the opponent can hold a direction after you footstool them so you have to be somewhat precise with it.

SuSa · Jun 22, 2009

NAKEDeDeDe said:
Pay attention, Susa!

I think it's pretty neat...it's funny how all these infinites are now suddenly being found, with a move that had to this point been seen as somewhat useless. But yeah anyway, it's really easy...It took me like 5 minutes to get it down. >_>

No. In the Brawl+ forums I do believe it is constantly mentioned that teching footstools is a change. If people fail to pick up on it's a change they need to be corrected for missing a big word. (Change)

I mean hell, I lurk the Brawl+ forums a ton and I've seen it at least 10 times. If you are telling me people haven't seen the word change and still believe it to be the same for Brawl.

Also this same mistake of "Why don't you tech it/roll/getup attack" was brought up before the change in Brawl+ took place. So you can't really blame this on Brawl+ either.

It's people thinking they know more then other people.

ESAM said:
Also guys, you aren't giving credit to how difficult it is. It isn't the hardest thing to do, but the opponent can hold a direction after you footstool them so you have to be somewhat precise with it.

So you mean to say after my first time playing Pikachu in 3-4 weeks and I was able to pull off it's supposed to be hard?

+10 SuSa's tech level.
I think it's over 9000 now. I can almost play Melee again!

OfTheEarth · Jun 22, 2009

Marcbri said:
I Don't know how everyone's saying this is hard to perform btw, Pika is one of my worse chars and I can already do it in real matches lol.

then you sir

are a trooper

[FBC] ESAM · Jun 22, 2009

Susa, then your opponent wasn't holding a direction when they were footstooled or you were getting lucky with guessing. I can't get the QA consistently against my brother, and i'm pretty sure i'm better with pikachu lol.

RDK · Jun 22, 2009

I just tried this with one of my friends and. Not only is it pretty easy to DI out of this, but it's fairly difficult to pull off consistently and it seems like it doesn't even work that effectively on most of the cast.

On top of that, can't you just tech roll out of it when you hit the ground? I don't get what all the hype is for.

Edit: Disregard that last part; we're obviously not talking about Brawl+.

superyoshi888 · Jun 22, 2009

You can't tech roll a footstool jump.

RDK · Jun 22, 2009

superyoshi888 said:
You can't tech roll a footstool jump.

No ****, I thought the people a few posts back were discussing B+.

Anybody have any luck getting it to work against the entire cast?

SuSa · Jun 22, 2009

If you do it relatively close to the ground they have minimal time to drift out. If you try this midair (for the first uair hit) they obviously will have more leeway.

Try it on a grounded opponent (and don't tell me that's impossible to do)

Also quick reactions help for the small amount that does count. And it's not horrible hard to perform.

I'd like to say that the IC CG's are far harder then this when it comes to inputs and timing.

[FBC] ESAM · Jun 22, 2009

Lol yeah they definitely are. But once you get the person in a grab, it is all on you. The other person literally has NOTHING they can do. However, with this the people can move slightly, causing the person to **** up if they aren't being careful. Were you hitting with the beginning of the attack or the end?

Prawn · Jun 22, 2009

SuSa said:
I'd like to say that the IC CG's are far harder then this when it comes to inputs and timing.

Just tried it for a few hours, as an IC main I can tell you they aren't even in the same ballpark for difficulty in terms of being consistent. This is much easier to do but I think much more situational and many more ways to punish/avoid.

All in all it's an advancement, but not a gamebreaking/groundbreaking discovery.

IMO of course.

Lemon? · Jun 23, 2009

When someone discovers some 0death combo, chaingrab or whatever, god kills a kitten, ***** it and then eats it. Think about it next time you decide to share something like this with the world. ALso brawl keeps getting gheyer and gheyer with stuff like this being found like every week or so... -_- /rant

Cold Fusion · Jun 23, 2009

Lemon? said:
When someone discovers some 0death combo, chaingrab or whatever, god kills a kitten, ***** it and then eats it. Think about it next time you decide to share something like this with the world. ALso brawl keeps getting gheyer and gheyer with stuff like this being found like every week or so... -_- /rant

At least the game is advancing.

Lemon? · Jun 23, 2009

Y462 said:
At least the game is advancing.

Not in a good way IMO... Imagine if every character in the cast had some ghey 0death or infinite grab/chaingrab, what would the fights be like? first person to grab or whatever wins the first stock, because theres nothing you can do to counter it (dont give me the "dont get hit" BS please..). Its just not fun... I feel better killing by getting inside their head and condition every move they make with nades and srage control (snake :D) but I guess when money's on the line, everything goes...

/offtopic
/rant

demonictoonlink · Jun 23, 2009

It isn't advancing...It's being corrupted...Eh...I play Pika and can QAC perfectly, so this doesn't seem too bad ^^

RDK · Jun 23, 2009

Lemon? said:
Not in a good way IMO... Imagine if every character in the cast had some ghey 0death or infinite grab/chaingrab, what would the fights be like? first person to grab or whatever wins the first stock, because theres nothing you can do to counter it (dont give me the "dont get hit" BS please..). Its just not fun... I feel better killing by getting inside their head and condition every move they make with nades and srage control (snake :D) but I guess when money's on the line, everything goes...

/offtopic
/rant

You're ********. If every character in the game had a 0-death combo, it would be loads more balance than it is now.

And besides, if you're playing Brawl for the balance then you're playing it for the wrong reasons.

Throwback · Jun 23, 2009

like others have said, is the uair SDIable? also, (and I'm sure the answer is probably 'nothing'), what happens if you SDI the QA upwards?

Lemon? · Jun 23, 2009

RDK said:
You're ********. If every character in the game had a 0-death combo, it would be loads more balance than it is now.

And besides, if you're playing Brawl for the balance then you're playing it for the wrong reasons.

Well, Ill just reply to you in the same way you did... NO, you're ********. I dont agree with your opinion, therefore, you are a ******. Smash debater my *** LOL

If every character had a 0death combo the game would be more balanced huh? Good thing you're not a developer then. I dont play brawl for the balance, I play because I like smash. If I wanted balance, Id play Brawl+... which I do, so yeah.

[FBC] ESAM · Jun 23, 2009

You CANNOT SDI out of the upair, the pikachu can just follow you. Also, the QA is A MOTHER ****ING LOCK, much like jab lock or laser lock or any other lock you guys know. IT resets the position they were in and causes them to get up, unless hit with another locking move. So, SDI-ing the QA upwards doesn't do anything, literally.

Tenki · Jun 23, 2009

Lemon? said:
Not in a good way IMO... Imagine if every character in the cast had some ghey 0death or infinite grab/chaingrab, what would the fights be like? first person to grab or whatever wins the first stock, because theres nothing you can do to counter it (dont give me the "dont get hit" BS please..). Its just not fun... I feel better killing by getting inside their head and condition every move they make with nades and srage control (snake :D) but I guess when money's on the line, everything goes...

/offtopic
/rant

It's still sort of conditioning their moves, because then everyone will be looking to not get hit by x move that leads into a combo. The good players will space, the and the ones losing will mis-space and get caught.

and also, s64 lol

Lemon? said:
Well, Ill just reply to you in the same way you did... NO, you're ********. I dont agree with your opinion, therefore, you are a ******. Smash debater my *** LOL

this made me lol actually.
touché.

ADHD · Jun 23, 2009

This is really dumb..

aeghrur · Jun 23, 2009

Lemon? said:
If every character had a 0death combo the game would be more balanced huh?

Well... yeah, lol. It would be like having D3 dittos then, lol.

I dont play brawl for the balance, I play because I like smash. If I wanted balance, Id play Brawl+... which I do, so yeah.

B+ will be unbalanced, I guarantee you. If you wanted balance, you'd play Starcraft.

Arora · Jun 23, 2009

this combo sux and it works almost on everyone

Lemon? · Jun 23, 2009

aeghrur said:
Well... yeah, lol. It would be like having D3 dittos then, lol.

B+ will be unbalanced, I guarantee you. If you wanted balance, you'd play Starcraft.

More balanced than brawl at least, its hard to achieve perfect balance in a game with 39 characters

Most (I say most because I still haven't tried all the characters...) of the CGs have been removed too.

It's still sort of conditioning their moves, because then everyone will be looking to not get hit by x move that leads into a combo. The good players will space, the and the ones losing will mis-space and get caught.

and also, s64 lol

I guess you're right.. But SSB64 was (is) different, it was a more combo oriented game, even more than melee. Brawl is just... Brawl. All these CGs and footstool combos, and all that crap is just making the game worse in my opinion. Brawl wasn't meant to be played like this. Again, this is MY opinion >_>

judge! · Jun 23, 2009

o god more things to worry when faceing anther =(((( fuzbear nooo

Anth0ny · Jun 23, 2009

judge! said:
o god more things to worry when faceing anther =(((( fuzbear nooo

hahahha I hear ya.

And somewhere, lain is laughing in the distance, as none of this infinite stuff will ever effect him :laugh:

Throwback · Jun 24, 2009

Can someone explain exactly what the % listed for starting the combo means?

I assume (well....hope) it means the infinite has to be started at roughly this percent because any higher and the character goes too far away, any lower and they are out of hitstun.

Kitamerby · Jun 24, 2009

SuSa said:
Also yelling generally doesn't mess people up on relatively simply inputs. (C-stick up, Jump, Jump, Up-B and hold down. Jump, C-stick up. repeat), contrary to "popular" belief.

What if you yell REALLY loud?

SwordmasterXXXI · Jun 24, 2009

Great, now when you go up against Pika everyone's just going to start saying "Don't get Uaired!" >_>

[FBC] ESAM · Jun 24, 2009

Throwback said:
Can someone explain exactly what the % listed for starting the combo means?

I assume (well....hope) it means the infinite has to be started at roughly this percent because any higher and the character goes too far away, any lower and they are out of hitstun.

Nope. Unfortunately for the other characters that % is the STARTING %. This basically goes from the % that it started for about 40% more than what the starting % is. However, you may have to hit with a different part of the tail or FH to get the footstool off.

Throwback · Jun 24, 2009

ok so everyone else has to camp for around 40% of each stock. That's bearable. Boring, but bearable.

Pikachu boards think they may have found a ~30% to death combo on almost everyone

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