should the wavedashing code be allowed in tournaments?

noodles · Oct 14, 2008

i figured id make this thread and see what everyone thinks

link to chibos list of uses/guide

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199407

chibos demonstration video
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sjrmVCB1ncY

(credit for the code for this technique goes to phantom wings(?)

personally im against it. itd make the game funner for me though

Luigi player · Oct 14, 2008

For normal tournaments? No.

But there will probably be Brawl WD tourneys...?

Lord Exor · Oct 14, 2008

Suuuuure. As long as MK is allowed.

Brawl will be even more fun then.

Praxis · Oct 14, 2008

I don't understand why people care so much about wavedashing? It was a nice spacing tool, but with the slower speed of Brawl you should be able to set yourself up. And it was great for edgehogging, but now that you can grab the ledges backwards it isn't as important.

It doesn't make the game significantly more fun...

Now, I'd like to see HITSTUN. Hitstun makes the game more fun xD Combos are great.

Criosphinx · Oct 14, 2008

Why can't people recognize the aphorism

Don't fix what isn't ~~Melee~~ broken.

Addendum: fix MK.

GofG · Oct 14, 2008

Praxis, the point isn't wavedashing, the point is that airdodging is no longer broken.

noodles · Oct 14, 2008

hit stun would be nice but chances are , with added hitstun, falcos chaingrab can go on for awhile longer....

Napilopez · Oct 14, 2008

No. It shouldn't. Perhaps at small side events at major tourney's but otherwise no.

At least Meta's wavedash is nothing specatucalar, and yay for Sonic wavedash XD.

Brawlee is coming.

EDIT:

I don't think MK is broken at all or ban material, but... MK + Hitstun?!? That's a totally different story.

DRaGZ · Oct 14, 2008

Lol, it won't happen kids. All the Brawl WDers hoping this will be the tourny standard needs to calm themselves doooown.

Garquille14 · Oct 14, 2008

It would need to be officialized and utilized at every tournament if it were to happen. Having some with and some without wouldn't be good.

Another thing that could come into factor is that if it were to be used in tournament settings, who's to say there aren't other particularly discreet mods used to cheat or to have an advantage with one thing or another? It doesn't appear to me that it can be safely adapted with everyone completely convinced it was the only mod in effect. And with money on the line, it's just not going to work.

Anth0ny · Oct 14, 2008

No, it's not gonna happen. Unlike the no tripping code, with could be used even if players don't practice with the Ocarina code on, Wavedashing would make that stuff neccesary.

There's no discussion. It'll be fun to mess around with it with friends, but nothing more.

DRaGZ · Oct 14, 2008

Just to put it in perspective:

People, like me, proposed early on in Brawl that we use Heavy Brawl as the standard, a mode that is built into the game. The community consensus was a resounding no.

So what makes people think exactly that using a hacked version of a game would do any better?

brinboy789 · Oct 14, 2008

no...because you can practically airdodge your way to survival XP.

Praxis · Oct 14, 2008

GofG said:
Praxis, the point isn't wavedashing, the point is that airdodging is no longer broken.

Isn't there already a code to limit you to one normal Brawl airdodge? I thought at least...might be wrong.

The point of this new code is specifically to enable wavedashing by having the airdodge change your momentum.

Regardless, hacking Brawl to change the physics of an inherent part of the game will NOT happen in tournaments. We'd have to revamp tier lists with regards to the change, and it would actually significantly effect some characters.

BTW, on a related note- Washington just had the first No Tripping tournament, and it was flawless. I completely forgot tripping was off, in fact, until we rebooted one of the Wii's after the tournament and I tripped in a friendly.

Retroend · Oct 14, 2008

i'm against it. not everyone can do it so theres no point. forget wavedashing. its great for fun, but nothin else.

4Serial · Oct 14, 2008

it makes airdodging less broken and punishable. yes for 'hacked' airdodges.

Swoops · Oct 14, 2008

GofG said:
Praxis, the point isn't wavedashing, the point is that airdodging is no longer broken.

Because air dodging is soooo broken in brawl? Oh no, you can do like 3 air dodges that are completely vulnerable if you start from the top of the screen. Seems people haven't noticed how easy air dodges are to punish and that there is landing lag.

No, it shouldn't be allowed. Brawl is brawl and these hacks are for funsies (really cool funsies mind you.) It's not like the lack of wavedashing was really an issue for most people anyways. The goal is to explore brawl's depth and strategies and people gave up on it way too soon and decided to start banning metaknight (o.O), clamoring to find "AT"s, and basically questioning if we should put our "improvements" into the game. People may keep making complaints about Brawl but all I see is a sh*tload of potential in a lot of characters.

So no...it shouldn't

Dav657 · Oct 14, 2008

Swoops said:
Because air dodging is soooo broken in brawl? Oh no, you can do like 3 air dodges that are completely vulnerable if you start from the top of the screen. Seems people haven't noticed how easy air dodges are to punish and that there is landing lag.

No, it shouldn't be allowed. Brawl is brawl and these hacks are for funsies (really cool funsies mind you.) It's not like the lack of wavedashing was really an issue for most people anyways. The goal is to explore brawl's depth and strategies and people gave up on it way too soon and decided to start banning metaknight (o.O), clamoring to find "AT"s, and basically questioning if we should put our "improvements" into the game. People may keep making complaints about Brawl but all I see is a sh*tload of potential in a lot of characters.

So no...it shouldn't

No because it allows people to get out of combos.

arch knight · Oct 14, 2008

all i have to say is this are you that poor of a brawler to resort to cheating and the sort. banning characters and stages because you can't beat them due to spamming and space to fight. that in my book should be frowned upon. burn your brawl disc now your not worthy to play.

nightSN · Oct 14, 2008

pshh if we cant get big tounry's we'll just have to make one ourselves! : DDD

Shred_kid · Oct 14, 2008

As much as I wanted a melee 2.0, I'm gonna have to say that there is no way that this can become the standard. Everyone wishing to become competitive would have to implement the code, and this could never happen.

Slyfer070 · Oct 14, 2008

If it became a tourney norm I'd probably just quit the game altogether. If you want melee so bad, go back to it.

Swoops · Oct 14, 2008

Dav657 said:
No because it allows people to get out of combos.

And so does attacking...what's your point? Oh noes...attacking is broken...ban it! Cmon ban eet! Do eet now!

Revven · Oct 14, 2008

arch knight said:
all i have to say is this are you that poor of a brawler to resort to cheating and the sort. banning characters and stages because you can't beat them due to spamming and space to fight. that in my book should be frowned upon. burn your brawl disc now your not worthy to play.

I lol'd.

This isn't cheating, this is making Brawl more fun than before.

Napilopez · Oct 14, 2008

Falco400 said:
I lol'd.

This isn't cheating, this is making Brawl more fun than before.

Although arch knights post was kind of um... noobish, your statement about brawl being more ufn before is just an opinion. I find brawl more fun then melee.

ZOMGNOWAVEDASHNOSTUNOFHITBRAWLSTINKS

=P

Yea I said it. Melee is clearly the more competitive game, but that does not mean its the more fun game, or even the better game. Not attacking you, but just pointing that out.

JawKnee~ · Oct 14, 2008

I probably wouldn't mind the wavedashing code since the no tripping code seemed to work quite well, but the code I'd want is Melee Falcon with 1 hit ko knees.

SkylerOcon · Oct 14, 2008

So...

When will people realize that if they want wavedashing they should just play Melee?

#HBC | Red Ryu · Oct 14, 2008

SkylerOcon said:
So...

When will people realize that if they want wavedashing they should just play Melee?

My thoughts exactly.

ReoZeo · Oct 14, 2008

I don't think it matters, cause as long as both opponents can do it, it should be fair

Sean² · Oct 14, 2008

I like the airdodge fix, but this wavedash seems a trillion times less useful than it was in Melee. Either play Melee or let wavedashing die.

Collective of Bears · Oct 14, 2008

No. End of story. Hacks are not, nor will they ever be a tournament standard. Kill it with fire and/or holy water.

BrawlBro · Oct 14, 2008

arch knight said:
all i have to say is this are you that poor of a brawler to resort to cheating and the sort. banning characters and stages because you can't beat them due to spamming and space to fight. that in my book should be frowned upon. burn your brawl disc now your not worthy to play.

this post speaks the truth.

but really if we all want wavedashing why not just go back to melee? No this wont be brawl tournament standard.

Revven · Oct 14, 2008

BrawlBro said:
this post speaks the truth.

I lol'd again.

ph00tbag · Oct 14, 2008

Short Answer: No.

Long Answer: Do you remember no tripping? There was a massive backlash against that, and it wasn't even all that game-changing a hack. The thing is, if there are WD tournaments, then due to the large anti-hack element in the community, there would also be WD-free tourneys. The result would be two fractured and weak communities, instead of a flourishing and growing community. Brawl tournaments don't need hack, because the game is still alright for competition without the hacks. So I can really only see the hacks being used for entertainment purposes in friendlies.

Crystanium · Oct 14, 2008

It's a cheat, and is not originally in the game. It doesn't belong in the game. Otherwise, I don't see why we shouldn't use Giga Bowser as a playable character in tournaments.

Espy Rose · Oct 14, 2008

Hell no.

I mean, a side tournament with WDing would be a-okay, but full fledged tournaments?

lol.

Remzi · Oct 14, 2008

ph00tbag said:
Short Answer: No.

Long Answer: Do you remember tripping? There was a massive backlash against that, and it wasn't even all that game-changing a hack. The thing is, if there are WD tournaments, then due to the large anti-hack element in the community, there would also be WD-free tourneys. The result would be two fractured and weak communities, instead of a flourishing and growing community. Brawl tournaments don't need hack, because the game is still alright for competition without the hacks. So I can really only see the hacks being used for entertainment purposes in friendlies.

QFT

10 quotes

bob-e · Oct 14, 2008

I can't help but feel that we are wrongly playing God. As big a hacking accomplishment as it is, wavedashing or increased hitstun will fundamentally change balance. It's obvious that not all characters will benefit equally from this hack. Accurately testing if it improves balance and makes more characters tournament viable would require the entire community to use this hack for months, which has absolutely no chance of happening. With more hitstun, MK would probably be able to combo everyone on the roster across Final Destination simply by chaining fairs together. Tweaking specific balance elements of the game also opens the floodgates for just about every other kind hack. Maybe Samus' missiles are too weak, maybe the sweet stop on Captain Falcon's knee needs to be moved. As soon as a single character gets the slightest buff or nerf from a hack, there are suddenly going to be thousands of people who all want their favorite character buffed.

What hacks, if any, make it into competition should be the simple ones. Ones that we can easily agree increase the competitive nature without throwing things (even more) off balance. Like no tripping, and maybe a code to disable Metaknight on the character screen.

Sonic on the Rocks · Oct 14, 2008

If this was allowed in tournaments, I would just stop playing. If you want this so bad, you can go back to your D***ed Melee. Anybody want to wavedash with their precious Meta Knight? Well too bad. GTFO of my Tourny.

A code to disable Metaknight on the character screen.

I'm all for that.

ICANTCOUNT123456 · Oct 14, 2008

All the Smash community is now is a split, dysfunctional community that can never agree on one thing...

Just leave the **** game alone and go back to Melee if you want all this... things were better that way...

should the wavedashing code be allowed in tournaments?

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