Ike's Guaranteed Grab Releases

YagamiLight · Oct 23, 2008

Basically, this is a rather hazy part of Ike's metagame and I figure that it can't hurt to make a topic about it to try to get some more info on it, especially considering that Ike can force air releases on short characters and his pummel attack has a high chance of forcing a ground release.. This isn't anything in depth, but mainly just a side project to enlighten users. Here's what I know so far, anything with a question mark is a theory.

If you see a question mark please take the time to test it, preferably with another human being, then post the results here. Please be sure of the results, don't just do one test.

Note: Anything that says "Bait" only means that there is a high chance of it happening, baits are not absolute.

Note 2: Ike's pummel to jab is not a guaranteed combo. Most characters are able to powershield the hit simply by holding down the shield button the whole time. Be sure to check that this powershielding method doesn't work before recommending "Ground Release to Jab" be added to the list.

Ness
- Ground Release to Jab
- Air Release to Fair (?)

Lucas
- Ground Release to Jab
- Air Release to Fair (?)

Squirtle
- Air Release to Regrab
- Air Release to Walkoff Fair
- Air Release to Dash Attack

Meta Knight
-Air Release to Dash Attack

Snake
- Air Release to Dash Attack

Wario
- Infinite if Wario wasted his second jump.
- Air Release to Up Tilt
- Air Release to Up Smash
- Air Release to Ftilt Angled Upwards

Mario
- Air Release to Offstage Fair

Luigi
- Air Release to Fair (?)

Pikachu
- Air Release to Dash Attack
- Ledge Ground Release to Dtilt Bait (?)

Ivysaur
- Air Release to Up Smash (?)
- Air Release to Fair

Charizard
- Air Release to Dash Attack

Ganondorf
- Air Release to Walkoff Fair
- Air Release to Regrab
- Air Release to Dash Attack

Wolf
- Offstage Air Release to Walk-off Fair
- Ledge Ground Release to Dtilt Bait (?)
- Ground Release Dashgrab (?)

:shiek: Sheik
- Offstage Air Release to Walk-off Fair(?)
- Offstage Air Release to Walk-off Nair (AKA Suicide) (?)

Jigglypuff
- Air Release to Aether (Buffer the Aether by holding Up as you Grab)

Link
- Ground Release to Dashgrab (?)

Toon Link
- Air Release to Fair (?)

:dedede:

King Dedede
- Air Release to Dash Attack

Diddy Kong
- Air Release to Dash Attack
- Ledge Ground Release to Dtilt Bait (?)

Falco
- Ground Release to Dashgrab (?)
- Offstage Air Release to Walk-off Fair (?)
- Ledge Ground Release to Dtilt Bait (?)

Samus
- Ground Release to Dashgrab (?)

Fox
-Ground Release to Dashgrab (?)
- Offstage Air Release to Walk-off Fair (?)

Mr. Game and Watch
- Ledge Ground Break to Dtilt Bait (?)

Kirby
- Air Release to Fair (?)

Olimar
- Air Release to Fair (?)

Add anything you find.

Wyvern-x · Oct 23, 2008

Air grab release -> Dash attack does work on MK.

~ Gheb ~ · Oct 23, 2008

Another Grab release on MK? I think I'll take a look

Ussi · Oct 23, 2008

Grab release on MK to dash attack is definably true, I tested it a long time ago.

Wyvern-x · Oct 23, 2008

I've been playing around with grab-releases and I think f-air and sliding u-smash might be able to get MK if you air release him off a platform. Facing off-stage of course. I'm not sure about those 2. Air-release -> quickdraw does work on MK.

HeroMystic · Oct 23, 2008

Hm, everyone seems to be looking at Grab releases these days...

Oh well, guess it's good to know.

YagamiLight · Oct 23, 2008

Updated the original post. I find that this grab release is potentially more useful than a throw, as the bulk of grab damage comes from the pummel, not the throw and non-guaranteed follow-up.

HeroMystic · Oct 23, 2008

I'm pretty sure Wario's can't be an infinite if he can jump off the edge with it.

I'd rather call it a chaingrab or tech-chase.

Nidtendofreak · Oct 23, 2008

Time to look into this stuff again....I *think* Hyphen Smash might work on Kirby/Jiggly if it works with MK, but that would need testing. If Ike has a heck of a lot of grab releases, it would improve his metagame a nice amount. It's always good when you can find a way to guaranteed his more powerful attack will hit....I mean, thats what got Bowser up there, or at least helped in it.

Arturito_Burrito · Oct 23, 2008

well according to guile the grab release to jab can be power shielded by everyone. If its not true it probably works on mario because I've never had my friend PS it.

doom dragon 105 · Oct 23, 2008

I don't think some of the MK ones work

MysticKenji · Oct 23, 2008

Pikachu can be air released -> dash attack'd.

YagamiLight · Oct 23, 2008

HeroMystic said:
I'm pretty sure Wario's can't be an infinite if he can jump off the edge with it.

I'd rather call it a chaingrab or tech-chase.

No, I'm pretty sure it was verified to be inescapable.

Nidtendofreak said:
Time to look into this stuff again....I *think* Hyphen Smash might work on Kirby/Jiggly if it works with MK, but that would need testing. If Ike has a heck of a lot of grab releases, it would improve his metagame a nice amount. It's always good when you can find a way to guaranteed his more powerful attack will hit....I mean, thats what got Bowser up there, or at least helped in it.

It'd be pretty awesome if it was found to combo into a kill move, but for now, even stuff like Dash attack is an improvement over Ike's throws, so that's bound to help in a match. Mind testing the Kirby/Jigglypuff theory?

Arturito_Burrito said:
well according to guile the grab release to jab can be power shielded by everyone. If its not true it probably works on mario because I've never had my friend PS it.

I'll go ahead and add Mario with a question mark.

doom dragon 105 said:
I don't think some of the MK ones work

Could you do some proper testing and say which ones don't work? QD and Dash attack work for sure.

MysticKenji said:
Pikachu can be air released -> dash attack'd.

Thanks, noted.

PKNintendo · Oct 23, 2008

Sorry... But Ike can't get Lucas with a QD or a dash. :/

(tested)

But Ike grab release on Mario is interesting.

YagamiLight · Oct 23, 2008

PKNintendo said:
Sorry... But Ike can't get Lucas with a QD or a dash. :/

(tested)

But Ike grab release on Mario is interesting.

Ah, I'll delete that section of Lucas then.

Nidtendofreak · Oct 23, 2008

It'd be pretty awesome if it was found to combo into a kill move, but for now, even stuff like Dash attack is an improvement over Ike's throws, so that's bound to help in a match. Mind testing the Kirby/Jigglypuff theory?

I can try, but I don't have anyone to test against except my sister, who normally forgets how to shield or airdodge. >_> And I'd have to pay her for her to play any amount of time....and my Uncle is over currently......I'll try on the weekend.

XZA143 · Oct 23, 2008

I was actually thinking about making this topic some time ago :laugh:

good job Light. I think we need to fully flesh this out and list who it definitely works on, who it doesn't, then as you said what it could possibly lead into.

YagamiLight · Oct 23, 2008

Nidtendofreak said:
I can try, but I don't have anyone to test against except my sister, who normally forgets how to shield or airdodge. >_> And I'd have to pay her for her to play any amount of time....and my Uncle is over currently......I'll try on the weekend.

Pay her to play Brawl? Not bad. Well, whenever you get around ti it, that'd be cool/

XZA143 said:
I was actually thinking about making this topic some time ago good job Light. I think we need to fully flesh this out and list who it definitely works on, who it doesn't, then as you said what it could possibly lead into.

Totally. As far as I see it, these Dash Attacks or Jabs are cool and probably better than the throws, but I'm looking for more substantial damage.

I THINK that Ike can do some Deathgrabesque thing on Charizard, Ganon and can running infinite Squirtle, so I'll put that up there. If it gets shot down, oh well. If not, excellent.

Arturito_Burrito · Oct 23, 2008

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172830&page=14 page where we talked about grab releases
And what guilhe said

Guilhe said:
So, I went and tested the whole cast aerial and ground release traveling distance. This is what I found out:

• Ankoku grab release proprieties are true! See them here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187615

• Most of the cast doesn’t slide far enough to escape the jab combo first hit but, they can perfect shield the first hit in time so this is not a true combo. Still very useful though

• Just Wario can be hit during his aerial release (and I still have not tasted that in humans), so we’re not going to score any more cheap kills out of or grabs. Good. Cheap kills will get no sympathy from me.

Now my attention turns back to the tech duck propriety from the Jump Canceled Usmash. It seems a very viable approach against projectile spammers.

Guilhe · Oct 23, 2008

Test it with a friend. Just ask them to hold the shield button, so it will activate at the first possible frame. They will powershield the jab. And there are some characters that slide too far for the jab to connect (Captain Falcon, MK for example).

Well, if his jabs aren’t capable of connecting 100% of the time after a ground release, I think you won’t find any true combos out of Ike’s grabs.

FuRy Smash · Oct 24, 2008

but that could be a strategy none the less. let's say they start powershielding the jab, then just regrab or running grab them and their at ur mercy again. having the chance to make ur opponent vulnerable is good, esp when u can have a mix up game.

Rykoshet · Oct 24, 2008

up smash works out of air release on wario too it's just silly to do I guess.

Guilhe · Oct 24, 2008

FuRy Smash said:
but that could be a strategy none the less. let's say they start powershielding the jab, then just regrab or running grab them and their at ur mercy again. having the chance to make ur opponent vulnerable is good, esp when u can have a mix up game.

Sure, I do not negligence the potential present in the grab. I’m just stating that there won’t be any guaranteed follow-ups.

Nidtendofreak · Oct 24, 2008

Charizard can duck under the regrab. That one I could test on my own using my foot. I grabbed Charizard, held down on the other control stick with my foot, and pounded the Z-button on Ike's control. He JUST beats the regrab. >_<

PKNintendo · Oct 24, 2008

Nidtendofreak said:
Charizard can duck under the regrab. That one I could test on my own using my foot. I grabbed Charizard, held down on the other control stick with my foot, and pounded the Z-button on Ike's control. He JUST beats the regrab. >_<

Your foot? Couldn't you get anotheer person?

I'll test it.

Arturito_Burrito · Oct 24, 2008

You think hes foot is faster than a person? If a foot can do it I'm pretty sure human hands will too.

YagamiLight · Oct 24, 2008

Rykoshet said:
up smash works out of air release on wario too it's just silly to do I guess.

I wouldn't call it silly, it IS a free 17% without any grab attacks.

Nidtendofreak said:
Charizard can duck under the regrab. That one I could test on my own using my foot. I grabbed Charizard, held down on the other control stick with my foot, and pounded the Z-button on Ike's control. He JUST beats the regrab. >_<

Is there still a possibility for a running/forward step regrab then?

Basically, I find that if you don't pummel them as they break out, everyone I tested is susceptible to a walking grab. If you pummel them and they break out, they go too far to regrab, but for some of the slower characters like Ganon you can use grab armor to defeat their faster attacks and get a regrab.

Arturito_Burrito · Oct 24, 2008

Is it actually called grab armor or did you just make that up?

Anyways test that out on Bowser because I think he is the fast character to act out of a grab release.

YagamiLight · Oct 24, 2008

Arturito_Burrito said:
Is it actually called grab armor or did you just make that up?

Anyways test that out on Bowser because I think he is the fast character to act out of a grab release.

I think the true name is Grab Faux Super Armor, so I just shortened it to Grab Armor.

Anyways it's not working on Bowser, pretty much for the same reason that you stated. He gets out way too fast and just jabs.

It seems to work on Ganondorf, especially the Dash Grab release. If he's walking away, you still get him. It's really hard to do with one person, so I'm not claiming anything is absolute, there is too much single human error. ON a side note, however, the CG on Squirtle looks pretty definite, though it's not a guarantee yet.

MysticKenji · Oct 24, 2008

Mario:
Air Release -> QD (?)
Air Release -> Fair if offstage (?)

Luigi:
Air Release -> Perfectly spaced Fair (?)

Ivysaur:
Air Release -> Usmash (?)
Air Release -> Fair (?)

Test these kthx

Squirtle can be re-grabbed from an Air Release.

Arturito_Burrito · Oct 24, 2008

holy **** so Ike has a chain grab on squirtle? AWESOME!

•Col• · Oct 24, 2008

I think you can regrab Ness after you release him... o-o When I tried, sometimes he'd get released even further than usual. I dunno what it was...

Also, for the record, I was trying it against a lvl 9 computer in training mode under different options like run, attack, jump, etc... It seemed to work except when he would break free and get sent back even further than usual.... Does DI play a factor in grab releasing or something? ._. I don't know why else he would get released further than usual...

EDIT: Also, it may be the same for Lucas... I can't remember if I tried it on him... xD This was over a week ago....

YagamiLight · Oct 24, 2008

MysticKenji said:
Mario:
Air Release -> QD (?)
Air Release -> Fair if offstage (?)

Luigi:
Air Release -> Perfectly spaced Fair (?)

Ivysaur:
Air Release -> Usmash (?)
Air Release -> Fair (?)

Test these kthx

Squirtle can be re-grabbed from an Air Release.

Thanks for confirming the Squirtle chaingrab. From what I see, the Mario Fair off stage works, but I'll be testing all of those with a friend very soon, so as to have no error.

Arturito_Burrito said:
holy **** so Ike has a chain grab on squirtle? AWESOME!

Squirtle is unfortunate, he can't seem to move until he retouches the ground. Poor thing. Ike was already quite good against Squirtle, this just kind of made it worse.

Arturito_Burrito · Oct 24, 2008

colaya they just moved trough the air instead of falling strait down.

Lol guess Ike does have 1 **** match up out range out prioritize never approach and chain grab squirtle when you shield grab him.

•Col• · Oct 24, 2008

Arturito_Burrito said:
colaya they just moved trough the air instead of falling strait down.

What determines whether they move through the air or fall to the ground? o-o

Arturito_Burrito · Oct 24, 2008

Colaya said:
What determines whether they move through the air or fall to the ground? o-o

its very complex man I'll try to explain it as best as possible though.

If they push on the control stick either left or right they move.

If they don't touch the control stick they just fall down.

•Col• · Oct 24, 2008

Arturito_Burrito said:
its very complex man I'll try to explain it as best as possible though.

If they push on the control stick either left or right they move.

If they don't touch the control stick they just fall down.

Lol... That's not very complex........ xD

But anyway, I don't suppose there is a way for us to control whether they do or not, is there...? D:

A chaingrab would kinda help for the Ness/Lucas matchups....

Arturito_Burrito · Oct 24, 2008

ummm I guess if you set them to walk they will move and if its stand they wont. same with run and jump. Test this on a level 1 cpu to see how they do. training mode is different sometimes.

edit: for example moves in training mode kill like 5% sooner I think. Thats what M2K said at least.

•Col• · Oct 24, 2008

Arturito_Burrito said:
ummm I guess if you set them to walk they will move and if its stand they wont. same with run and jump. Test this on a level 1 cpu to see how they do. training mode is different sometimes.

edit: for example moves in training mode kill like 5% sooner I think. Thats what M2K said at least.

Um, I meant that they randomly moved further away at times... o-o Like WHILE they were set to the same thing... Like I'd have it set to run the entire time, but sometimes he'd break out and stay close, and others he would break out and fall further away...

Arturito_Burrito · Oct 24, 2008

meh idk go test it with your foot then continue the trend.

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