Captain Falcon's Match-Up Database! | (General Discussion); UPDATED: April 18th, 2010

BigLord · Apr 10, 2010

Hey guyz.

Since you're discussing Ike, I beg to differ on that "Ike can't punish upwards" hypothesis, because he actually can.

Nair. His nair is actually pretty good if he gets you. Of course, it's the worst place for a Ike to be (below the opponent), but it's still not that terrible of a situation.

I should have thought of that before, actually. Lost against an Ike in a money match, heh.

Ramzeh · Apr 11, 2010

BigLord said:
Hey guyz.

Since you're discussing Ike, I beg to differ on that "Ike can't punish upwards" hypothesis, because he actually can.

Nair. His nair is actually pretty good if he gets you. Of course, it's the worst place for a Ike to be (below the opponent), but it's still not that terrible of a situation.

I should have thought of that before, actually. Lost against an Ike in a money match, heh.

Wow. You lost against an Ike?

:laugh:

Yayuhz · Apr 11, 2010

MA ***** RICK TOO GOOD YEEEE SON!!!!!!!!!!

ike is ****ing gay lol ****** ***** ****

Ussi · Apr 11, 2010

i don't think there is a single character with the foe above him to be even remotely a bad position

Player-3 · Apr 11, 2010

luigi vs mk

Ussi · Apr 11, 2010

I really meant in general... we all know MK ***** in all 8 directions (if you want to include diagonals) >_>

Yayuhz · Apr 11, 2010

wow that sounds ****ing gay lol ****** mk

Darxmarth23 · Apr 11, 2010

i say ike is done

two ways to go around jab

break him

**** him

done

Ray Robo · Apr 11, 2010

I say you keep ike in the air with some Dthrows and Uthrows to follow up with Uair. His jab is a problem for CF so you'll have to get around that.

Darxmarth23 · Apr 11, 2010

f-throw gets you outta his sword range

A user name · Apr 14, 2010

So discussion has died and I figured I'd make this to try to bring discussion back and end this match-up. This is kind of a summary of important things (in my opinion) that have been said.

------------
Ike's jab

Darky-Sama said:
The only reason I'm convinced that it might not be THAT high in Falcon's favor is because of Ike's jab, really. It's ridiculously disjointed and eats most of our approaches.

Player-3 said:
his jab is a problem, it puts pressure to push us out of his bad zones when we get in them, so we have to play smarter and outspace the jabs

The only reason that this isn't in Falcon's favor is Ike's jab. It makes approaching Ike extremely hard. There's not much you can do to avoid it either, except stay out of jab range.

------------
In the air

Player-3 said:
Ike can only keep us out of his zones by retreating fairs

retreating towards the edge

eventually he has to roll or go over us (as long as we don't go and hurrrr derrrr lookatme i'ma rush him so he can get away) in which case we can initiate a juggle or get a kill

Player-3 said:
his nair is by far the biggest problem, they are quick, cover his body, and little landing lag make it hard to punish, but utilt out ranges it AND jab, so you can practically walk up outside his nair/jab range and just utilt once, and if he goes for the fair just shield it and punish or he has to retreat

A2ZOMG said:
Ike is singlehandedly the worst character in the game at punishing upwards.

He can't really threaten you at all when you're above him. If he's facing away from you, you know he will B-air, which fails a lot when dodged. Everything else you can airdodge, jump away from, or B reverse out of the way ON REACTION and he's too slow to follow up afterwards.

It's just a matter of avoiding falling into bad habits, since everything he has to hit above him is slow.

Ike's fair can create a shield around him, but it can't be used offensively very well meaning he has to retreat to the edge where you want him.
You'll need to take advantage of lag against nair to hit him.

----------
gimping

Darxmarth23 said:
you just need to push im away far enough that aether can't work and low enough so his side+b won't work as a recovery.

---------
I've had trouble deciding what I thought on this match-up but after reading all the posts over again I say 50-50.

Makaveli tha Don · Apr 14, 2010

nice summary

you did something good for once

but i still think its in ikes favor slightly,
because he has the kill advantage on us
and no matter how we look at it, jab WILL give us trouble

Player-3 · Apr 14, 2010

so tl;dr you quote peoples posts and summarize them without inputting any ideas of your own

cool

A user name · Apr 14, 2010

Player-3 said:
so tl;dr you quote peoples posts and summarize them without inputting any ideas of your own

cool

Well I'm not that good so...yeah. And besides I was just hoping this would bring discussion back.

A user name · Apr 14, 2010

Makaveli tha Don said:
nice summary

you did something good for once

but i still think its in ikes favor slightly,
because he has the kill advantage on us
and no matter how we look at it, jab WILL give us trouble

I don't really care if it's 50-50 or 45-55.

Makaveli tha Don · Apr 14, 2010

it was a nice way to revive the THREAD

but not the DISCUSSION. you kinda ended that with a conclusive summary.

of which the ratio i disagree with, but i don't care what it is.

NEXT.

lordhelmet · Apr 14, 2010

Player-3 said:
so tl;dr you quote peoples posts and summarize them without inputting any ideas of your own

cool

That was actually a smart move. The easiest way to make a summary is by using what other people have said, and now they're all in one spot. So thanks!

And I'm thinking 55 Ike's favor, who's next?

A user name · Apr 14, 2010

Makaveli tha Don said:
it was a nice way to revive the THREAD

but not the DISCUSSION. you kinda ended that with a conclusive summary.

of which the ratio i disagree with, but i don't care what it is.

NEXT.

I guess I was trying to revive the thread more than the discussion, but whatever.

Makaveli tha Don · Apr 14, 2010

Im cool with that

55-45 though.

next mother****er

lordhelmet · Apr 14, 2010

How about Diddy? I remember attempting to discuss him but we didn't really have any legit conversations.

A user name · Apr 14, 2010

Sounds good, I know a fair amount about Diddy.

Makaveli tha Don · Apr 14, 2010

im down

darkys thread though

A user name · Apr 14, 2010

This post doesn't need to be here.

Darky-Sama · Apr 14, 2010

Good summary, AUN. I'll fix it up and put it in the OP when I get the chance.
Thanks.

EDIT;; We'll go with Diddy, then.

A user name · Apr 14, 2010

Darky-Sama said:
Good summary, AUN. I'll fix it up and put it in the OP when I get the chance.
Thanks.

WHAT?! Really? You'll use what I wrote?!

Darky-Sama · Apr 14, 2010

It didn't seem bad. Helps keep things more organized.
I can use it as a basis for the original post. lol

Makaveli tha Don · Apr 14, 2010

Darky-Sama said:
Good summary, AUN. I'll fix it up and put it in the OP when I get the chance.
Thanks.

A user name said:
Darky doesn't do enough around here.

HAH get ****ed

Diddy:

Fast mother****a
dash attack is homo cause of the ridiculous IASA frames i guess.

nannas are gay although im pretty sure knee experimented with them in the past

I remember a heated debate about using FK in the air to gimp his recovery. It was me and P-3 against skip2maloo and talkingbeatles. im still standing for DON"T DO IT. FK has bad priority and if you are not hit, then have fun recovering and hope the ledge is open. And if you do collide you can get knocked out of FK.
So don't do it.

i don't have much to say in this matchup

Bair his recovery i guess. or just don't get hit.

A user name · Apr 14, 2010

Thanks Darky-Sama. That's pretty cool.

Darky-Sama · Apr 14, 2010

Yeah, Lord and I tested some combos with Diddy's bananas as well.

Jump Canceled Glide Toss -> Fsmash / Pivot Usmash / Pivot Jab / Pivot Grab / Raptor Boost / Ftilt / Utilt {and possibly an up+B}.

Midair Z Dropped Banana -> Knee works too.

A user name · Apr 14, 2010

Can't Falcon do some pretty cool stuff with bananas?
Edit: I was beat to posting it.

Makaveli tha Don · Apr 14, 2010

Darky-Sama said:
Yeah, Lord and I tested some combos with Diddy's bananas as well.

Jump Canceled Glide Toss -> Fsmash / Pivot Usmash / Pivot Jab / Pivot Grab / Raptor Boost / Ftilt / Utilt {and possibly an up+B}.

Midair Z Dropped Banana -> Knee works too.

Im likin the fsmash

i wouldn't recomend Usmash cause the first hit is easy to SDI, and the second hit is what sends em flyin.

Pivot jab and grab are good if you got them at low percents.

raptor boost is alright too i guess, just make sure you keep em busy in the air.

f-tilt is viable, u-tilt is ****.

and getting a knee on them is also tight.

on another note

know diddys bad zones

Darky-Sama · Apr 14, 2010

Poor buffering in this video, but it was suppose to be used as an example, so the boards had an idea of what Falcon could do with the bananas and test things out themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2Or3DsxboI&fmt=22

lordhelmet · Apr 14, 2010

Yeah, we have some cool stuff on Diddy, unfortunately most of it is too hard to pull off.

I'm still not sure if z-drop>Falcon Punch is a legit combo or not (I did it in a real match @ 6:35)

We should look over all the banana shenanigans once more (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=263302)

Makaveli tha Don · Apr 14, 2010

i think a smart diddy will keep you busy enough to make sure that you have a difficult time getting the banana though.

mess around with it, but know that in a tournament heated situation, this is gonna be difficult.

Darky-Sama · Apr 14, 2010

Definitely. Throwing the banana downward is risky, but you can JCGL the banana forward and hit him with a fsmash or go in for a grab as well. Much easier and more reliable. Z Drop -> Knee is pretty easy too. I've done it on numerous occasions mid match. Especially if Diddy tries to follow you up into the air, the banana gives a bit of hitstun if it hits them and the knee... well, not much to explain about a fast falling knee to the face. lol

A user name · Apr 14, 2010

Makaveli tha Don said:
i think a smart diddy will keep you busy enough to make sure that you have a difficult time getting the banana though.

mess around with it, but know that in a tournament heated situation, this is gonna be difficult.

That's true but the stuff you can do is still awesome.

Makaveli tha Don · Apr 14, 2010

A user name said:
That's true but the stuff you can do is still awesome.

I don't deny that.

but in a tourney you better know what you are doing

so appreciate every bannana you get. use it the best way possible

Darky-Sama · Apr 14, 2010

Which would be to hold onto it and ALWAYS use it for a Z-Drop -> Aerial, because the aerials regrab the banana if you're overlapping them.

Makaveli tha Don · Apr 14, 2010

Darky-Sama said:
Which would be to hold onto it and ALWAYS use it for a Z-Drop -> Aerial, because the aerials regrab the banana if you're overlapping them.

Therefore you truly are using the banana to the fullest. + you can get a knee out of it, and it seems to be one of the easier things to do.

Me and Darky are on fire today.

Darky-Sama · Apr 14, 2010

**** yeah.

About five MU altering strategies for different characters in less than a ****ing hour.

Get at us.

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