Doubles and You, a Comprehensive Guide to 2v2s

To begin with, there are two players per team, and in order for their team to work, they absolutely MUST figure out who's doing what.

There are two options-

To Carry

To Support/Assist the Carry

In general, the Carry is the player who will ultimately carry their team to victory, and this will only happen when the Support player does his part in making that work.



An awesome analogy a great smasher from New Mexico (GoldenGloves) once made as a sort of offhanded remark one day while playing doubles-

"You have to understand. Some players are Batmans, and some players are Robins. You're a Robin."

Some people are the Hero, and some people are the Sidekick.

In other words, some players are the Carry, and some players are the Supporter.

You CAN NOT have conflicting playstyles and win at upper levels of Doubles play. You must work together in order to find any sort of success. That's what teamwork's all about.




What are the defining characteristics a player/character can have in Doubles Play?



•The Carry:
In a 1v1, they crush their opponent, in 2v1s, they are the only ones who stand a fighting chance. What makes a good Carry? These are the characters that have enough options to win, regardless of the situation at hand. Generally, they have a good "gtfo out of there" move or characteristic (be it offensive or defensive) that allows them to fight 2v1s on their own terms. One thing that is ABSOLUTELY necessary for a Carry to have is a versatile recovery, you aren't going to be winning any 2v1s if your recovery is SO linear that the instant they get you offstage it's -1 stock, now will you?

Why is this beneficial to a team?
"Why wouldn't it be?" is a better question! A Carry is in general, the cream of the crop. These are the top-tier characters that can (in the right hands) completely shift the momentum of a set or match in your favor be it through completely dominating one of your opponents early-game, or absolutely clutching a 2v1.

These characters can psychologically shut down an opponent and make them feel hopeless in doubles.

Who is best suited to play as a Carry?
Being the Carry is highly reliant upon character selection, but even more so in a player's individual skill level. This is the person who without question deserves to share stock their teammate. This is the person who is, without question, the one better fit for a 2v1 or even a 1v1 in the end game of a doubles match.

Who will they naturally team best with?
The Carry can team with anyone. The most desirable teammates for a Carry though depend upon exactly where they excel, do they need that extra bit in kill power, or do they dread 2v1s and absolutely need that teammate alive in order to win the match? Think about that before deciding upon the Stock Tank, Punisher, or the DPS.

How do I Carry?
You either do, or you don't. It's not really something that can be taught, and for this, I apologize.

******The Carry player DOES NOT team with another Carry. The only time this will ever work is when you absolutely outclass all of the other teams in terms of individual skill (which is not very likely at top levels of play). Of course, M2K and Ally say hi, but their winning streak will be over soon enough.******




•The Stock Tank:
These are the characters that can survive for a LONG amount of time, through good DI, very good momentum canceling capabilities, good recoveries, and fast aerials, it is a pain in the neck to ledgeguard, and in general, to kill them.

Why is this beneficial to a team?
First off, if you consistently live FOREVER, your teammate has no need of worrying about being left alone in a 2v1, but more importantly, they can share stock you, ultimately leading to victory when otherwise the Stock Tank partner may not have clinched it alone.

On a psychological level, the Stock Tank is extremely frustrating to play against.

Who is best suited to play as a Stock Tank?
Defensive players, without a doubt. Remember, it isn't just your playstyle that effects this though. If you want all of the fame and glory for yourself (that's rather selfish, but realistic nonetheless) being the Stock Tank isn't your cup of tea.

Who will they naturally team best with?
The Stock Tank is a jack-of-all-trades in this respect, who doesn't want a teammate that doesn't require babysitting? In all honesty, this is someone that everyone wants to team with, but in the end, the Carry and the Punisher probably synergize best with the Stock Tank.

How do I Stock Tank?
Play defensively, and focus more upon defensive support than offensive support.

UTD Zac said:

G&W can be an amazing stock tank with bucket braking and "planking" / running away. G&W can also dish out a lot of damage really really fast. Most, if not all, teams matches I've played, I have done more damage than my teammate. It really all depends on the playstyle the user chooses to have. If he keeps rushing in, he will get a huge DPS score, but not do so well at Stock Tanking. If he stays back, runs, and UpBs a lot, he'll manage to Stock Tank like none-other but won't do nearly as much damage as he could have.

Click to expand...

•Punisher:
This is the character that can get the low % kills with little or no set-up. With a good read/set-up they can quickly take a stock and turn the tides of a match with little to no punishment.

Why is this beneficial to a team?
Losing a stock early is the last thing any team wants to do. It can break team chemistry, as well as sway momentum completely in your favor. Plus, who's to say they aren't gonna be getting kills at that percent through out the whole set?

These characters, along with Carries are probably the best at psyching out the opponent. It may be frustrating when you can't kill your opponent, but it's even MORE frustrating when they kill you at 60% with perfect DI. Not to mention it makes their teammate feel absolutely let down.

Who is best suited to play as a Punisher?
This isn't so much a playstyle as it is a perk that comes along with choosing certain characters. The only thing you have to do is pay a lot of attention to what's going on, a punish accordingly, if you can do that, welcome aboard!

Who will they naturally team best with?
Without a doubt, the DPS. What's it like to go from 0-dead in a matter of seconds? I can tell you- it absolutely blows and makes your opponent want to cry.

How do I Punish effectively?
Pay more attention to your opponents than to your teammate. Openings galore will be presented to you.




•DPS:
Last but certainly not least, is the DPS (damage per second). This is the character that can make your opponent's fresh stock go from 0-80% within seconds. Their entire gameplan is to kill you faster than you kill them, and with their absurd damage racking capabilities and the right teammate, they do this job pretty **** well.

Why is this beneficial to a team?
Without damage, you don't kill! Enough said.

Psychologically, this guy will absolutely mess with his opponent's heads, making a relatively even match seem absolutely one-sided within seconds.

Who is best suited to play as the DPS?
Well, this is a character trait more than it's a player trait, so anyone who mains characters with absurd 0-XX% combos has it down.

Who will they naturally team best with?
It's already been said but needs repeating, the Punisher!

How do I efficiently play as the DPS?
This is the opposite of the Stock Tank, aggression is necessary in order to rack up that much needed damage. Stalk both of your opponents, and take any and all opportunities to tack onto their counters.




•Support/Assist:
This is probably the most abstract of all of the concepts, but it's definitely something that needs to be known about. First off, there are several ways of Supporting your teammate, be it through easy set-ups for fast kills (D3 comes to mind,) having the speed necessary to get your teammate out of a bind (Sonic of course!) or having the proper moveset/recovery to save your teammate from inevitable gimps.

There are 2 types of Support, they consist of

•Offensive Support: These are the characters who have active forms of setting up their teammate for quick kills, be it through forced tech chases, or moves that have fixed knockback.

•Defensive Support: Speed is of utmost importance for Defensive Supporters. They must not only react the instant their teammate is in trouble, but they must have the character mobility in order to actually do something about it.

These are not the only ways a character can interact with their teammate though, there is a third, much less desired, negative support effect:

•Interference: This is when one character's traits/moveset actively interfere with the way they and their teammate play together.

**Side Note**
Interference is NOT something that should curb one from teaming with said characters, it's more of a rating level for just how much of a learning curve there is for teaming with them.

A quick guide to what exactly is taken into account in each character's statistical evaluations-



Carry: This is the only truly abstract concept being covered here, what I am taking into account for how well a character can be a Carry is


•Their match-ups- are they absolutely MURKED by anyone in a non CG fashion? Think Sheik v Ganon, or Falcon v Peach

•A generic overview of their moveset/zoning capabilities- do they have the proper moveset to punish, without being punished (in 2v1?) or do they have the capabilities to control a certain zone around them, or on/near the stage?

•Their Weaknesses- Poor/predictable recovery? Grab releases? Chain-grabs? Range? Priority? Certain aspects of their frame data? Large hurtbox? Im other words, how easily are they exploited?




Stock Tank: This is a bit more easily defined. I take a few categories into account when determining just how well a character can Stock Tank.


•6 Weight/momentum-canceling capabilities- Pretty self explanatory.

•3 Recovery- Is it excellent and fast to the point where your teammate isn't being double teamed every time you're knocked offstage?

•1 Defensive Zoning- GTFO moves, planking, auto-grabbing the ledge, etc.




Punisher: Like Stock Tanking, Punishing takes 3 categories into account over others


•7 Kill Power

•3 Speed of kill moves (start-up only)

•Gimping capability

**Side note A** If your character is so large/slow mobility-wise that they aren't capable of actually getting to the point where they can actually take advantage of good kill opportunities, they aren't a very good punisher.

**Side note B** If your character has a certain Z0MGTASTIC kill move that is conditional, AKA waft, bucket, judgment, etc. it's not taken into account AS MUCH AS other important kill moves.




DPS: This one's a bit more difficult to just clump certain things up as more important than others, but what goes into account for this category is


•Combo ability- How well does your character combo from 0, and how easy is it for your character to do said combo?

•Damage ability- After the initial 50%, can they still consistently rack up nice bits and pieces of damage through aggressive zoning?

•Projectiles




**Side Note** The numbers listed next to bullets under the Stock Tank/Punisher categories are guidelines as to how important I find each category, meaning kill power is going to be roughly 70% of the weight in how well a character can punish.

Of course, that's not necessarily the COMPLETE case, like with a reverse warlock punch (which kills around 20%) and is not a conditional attack, but has FAR too much start-up for it to be considered effective whatsoever. I would honestly rate that move as a 0, and not even take it into consideration when evaluating Ganondorf's killing potential.

**Side Note B** Any and all statistics (aside from 10s) are to be taken with a grain of salt. If a character is rated as a "7" for Stock Tanking, think anywhere from 6 to 8.

**Side Note C** All moves listed under "Punish Moves" are listed in order of how effective they are.





Just as a reminder, take everything with a grain of salt, I am by no means infallible, I'm just pretty **** knowledgeable about Brawl
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Metaknight: Carry Assist

Carry- 10*
Stock Tank- 7
Punisher- 8
DPS- 9
Great at both Offensive and Defensive Support


*MK is MK. He always has an option- always.

MK can be an excellent Stock Tank through his many defensive options that abuse even the smallest frame advantages, his excellent momentum canceling through either uair or sideB, and his excellent recovery. The only thing keeping him from being invincible in fact, is his weight. He is one of the lightest characters in the game.

Punish Moves:
•Second hit of dsmash
•Fsmash
•Gimp gimp gimp
•Shuttle Loop
•Dsmash
•Glide Attack
•Nair

DPS wise, he has many excellent strings of moves, including his infamous uairx100000 > nair/tornado, and his amazingly fast moveset in general.

Offensive Support:
•Dthrow
•Uthrow
•Tornado

Defensive Support:
•Uair
•Amazing recovery


Snake: Tank
Carry- 7
Stock Tank- 9
Punisher- 8
DPS- 7
Great Offensive Support
Moderate Interference Issues


Snake's Interference Issues stem from his explosives, obviously. Two things must be done to curb this- the Snake player must be careful with grenade usage, and his teammate must pay attention to where the C4 is planted at all times.

Snake has quick tilts, great kill moves, an AMAZING forced tech chase, and is one of the fattest *******s to ever exist. In short, he is a TANK.

Carry-wise, he has grenades to get opponents the hell away from him, and quick tilts for separating. The only problem is that once he's put up in the air or offstage... He's pretty screwed.

His Tanking capabilities consist of him being one heavy POS, and his excellent recovery. The only reason he isn't the to contender Tank-wise is because his recovery, though amazing, has its fault- it is slow, and gimpable.

Punish Moves:
•Utilt
•C4
•Fsmash
•All aerials
•Grenades

DPS-wise, Snake is a bit lacking. His attacks pack an awfully strong punch, BUT, they have so much knockback that his combo potential is awfully lacking, not to mention the fact that with a teammate in play, he's a bit more hesitant to use those grenades.

Offensive Support:
•Dthrow
•C4
•Forced air releases


Diddy Kong: Carry DPS
Carry- 10*
Stock Tank- 8
Punisher- 6
DPS- 10***
Great Offensive Support
Large Interference Issues


Diddy Kong's primary characteristic that makes him less than desired by most as a partner in doubles is easily his bananas. How can one remedy this? Diddy just has to be careful of his teammate. What is of the utmost importance in this match-up is learning how to play with your teammate Diddy's naners. Learn how to control them, learn the ins and outs of banana play with your character, and learn every combo you have with them. After this, your team's performance will actually be boosted by Diddy's "Interference."

Diddy has an excellent recovery, amazing speed, great stage control, as well as a forced tech-chase (not to mention NO ONE knows how to play against him... yet).

As a Carry, his speed is prime, and with that nasty stage control, that's just another plus. He can separate his opponents with ease, forcing the match onto his own terms. Like Snake though, once the momentum is taken from him, it's definitely an uphill battle. He has more mix-ups to avoid juggles though, so it's not a lost cause once you're offstage.

Stock Tanking isn't necessarily Diddy's forte (only because of his weight) but due to the fact that most enemies will refuse to approach him, and his recovery is absolutely amazing (as well as fast!) he's actually pretty good at it.

Punish Moves:
•Dsmash
•Fsmash
•Fair
•Dair

Offensive Support:
•Bananas
•Uthrow
•Diddy Hump

*Diddy Kong, due to his excellent stage control, is regarded as one of THE BEST 2v1 characters.

***Due to the insane amount of true combos Diddy possesses, he is without a doubt the #1 damage racker.


Marth: Carry Punish
Carry- 8
Stock Tank- 6
Punisher- 9
DPS- 8
Decent Offensive Support


Marth has hardcore range, disjointed hitboxes, a Dragon Punch (invincibility on start-up attack,) a great recovery, excellent 0 > xx% combos, and his tipper kills like a mofo.

Marth has fast, safe, high knockback moves which allow him to zone defensively extremely well, allowing for him to take people on in 2v1 situations better than most characters, though like with others, once he IS taken advantage of... well, the blouse comes off, and they slap his tiara off with it.

Stock Tanking isn't his main priority, Marth's range and high damaging/hard hitting aerials pretty much beckon for Marth to be the aggressor in Doubles.

Punish Moves:
•Fsmash
•Dsmash
•Bair
•Utilt
•UpB

His highly rewarding aggressive playstyle is what primarily allows Marth to be a damage racking machine. His lack of a projectile slightly harms him in this respect, but also forces him to stay on top of his opponents in order to keep matches in his control. Did I mention he juggles like a medieval court jester?

Offensive Support:
•Throws
•Character Specific CGs
•Forced Air Release
•Dtilt


Falco: DPS
Carry- 5
Stock Tank- 4
Punisher- 7
DPS- 8
Great Offensive Support
Moderate Interference Issues
Energy Projectile (Punish/DPS)


Amazing Lasers, a great GTFO move (phantasm), a great chaingrab...
Unfortunately, most of these either interfere with your teammate, or can in turn be interfered with by your opponent's partner. Falco needs to drastically switch up his playstyle in order to be effective in Doubles, that's not to say that he's not a good choice for Doubles, he's just not nearly as good in Doubles as he is in Singles.

Carrying, Falco lacks a good recovery so once he's offstage, sure he might make it back with his quick phantasm, but... he's knocked right back off. He really lacks the proper moveset to do much of anything in a 2v1 situation, and before it even comes to that he gets pressured to hell and back due to his lack of space in a Doubles environment.

Stock Tanking, well, he's on the lighter spectrum of characters, has a poor recovery, and to top it all off, falls fast as hell. His hit and run playstyle is also sort of gimped by the fact that he's got a teammate he has to avoid hitting, so if you're in dire need of a Stock Tanking partner, Falco is NOT your man.

Punish Moves:
•Fsmash
•Usmash
•Dair
•Dsmash
•Bair

DPS is where he makes his money though. If given the chance, Falco can take his opponent on a 40-60% ride from hell with his chaingrab (which can set-up for all sorts of gimmicky low percent kills,) his second jump is both fast and high reaching for punishing opponents in the air above him, and his lasers are both fast and go across the entire stage (so use them properly!) Jab is absolutely broken.

Offensive Support:
•Dthrow CG


****Ice Climbers:
Carry- 1
Stock Tank- 1
Punisher- 1
DPS- 1
Large Interference issues
Energy Projectile (DPS)


****ICs are NOT known for being good in doubles, they are absolutely unviable, to the point where Lain won't even use them in serious doubles sets.


Wario: Tank Punish
Carry- 7
Stock Tank- 9
Punisher- 9
DPS- 7
Good Offensive Support
Decent Defensive Support


Ah Wario, heavy, GREAT recovery, hard hitting smashes, fast aerial speed, a sex grab, what does he not have?! Oh ya, a safe aerial grab release =( This is the one thing keeping him from being one of the top 3 Carry characters in Brawl. He's still good, just not amazing.

Stock Tanking on the other hand... he has a very difficult to gimp recovery, it's FAST so you won't have to worry about your opponent being stuck alone for too long, and he is heavy as all hell!

Punish Moves:
•Fart (time dependent)
•Fsmash
•Uair

As far as DPS goes, Wario's got some great, fast aerials for racking up damage (that hit hard!) but he's more suited for a defensive playstyle that abuses openings with hard hitting punishing attacks. He can rack up damage when you need it, but don't rely on him to do all of the work himself.

Offensive Support:
•Dthrow
•Fthrow
•Bite

Defensive Support:
•Fast aerial mobility
•Good Recovery
•Uair sends you HIGH


King Dedede: Tank Assist
Carry- 5
Stock Tank- 8
Punisher- 8
DPS- 7
Amazing Offensive Support
Great Defensive Support
Minor Interference Issues
Energy Projectile (DPS)


His only true issue with interference is how big he is. He gets knocked around like a disobedient housewife, and due to this, his teammate has to babysit in order for their team to function properly.

King Dedede suffers about as much as Falco in Doubles for both similar and different reasons. His primary issue is his sheer size- he gets knocked around, sometimes by his teammate, all for being so fat! His other issues include the fact that his moveset is rather punishable, and that his recovery is pretty linear (all due to how fast he falls and how slowly he moves in the air). He's not useless, though. He's got some serious KO power, can dominate an opponent in a 1v1 situation, and is one of the top 3 heaviest characters in the game.

As a Stock Tank, D3's ONLY issue is how much damage he gets racked up on himself. His large frame makes him juggle-bait, and his slow, punishable upB allows for some nasty kill moves to make their way onto his frame. Then again, he can almost always recover, and is heavy as hell.

Punish Moves:
•Utilt
•Dsmash
•Usmash
•Fsmash
•Swallowcide
•Bair
•Gordo (random)

The King is good at tacking on percent with his wall of bair, his hard hitting throws, and his great aerials, so he's definitely good at dealing out damage, the only issue is that he's not going to be openly available for pounding on his opponents at all times.

Offensive Support:
•Dthrow
•Inhale
•Waddle Dees/Doos

Defensive Support:
•Inhale
•Huge frame


Olimar: Punish/DPS
Carry- 3
Stock Tank- 7
Punisher- 9
DPS- 8
Moderate Interference Issues


Olimar has moderate Interference Issues due to his pikmin being capable of latching onto his teammates, as well as the fact that he needs a bit of babysitting in order to live when an opponent is grabbing onto the ledge or if he's been the victim of a footstool/gimp. Nothing TOO serious, it just takes a very attentive teammate to work well with Olimar.

Olimar has an amazing throw, great projectiles, fast hard-hitting smashes, and ... a tether recovery. He may get punished hard for his poor recovery, but he makes up for it with sheer firepower. He's not a Carry by any means, but he's definitely a great Doubles character.

As a Stock Tank, Olimar is VERY light, and has a terrible recovery. How the hell does he Stock Tank so well?! He's got a fortress of Pikmin, all who fight and sacrifice their own lives so that he may live on and fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esYm9q-bi4w
His campy playstyle and excellent super-armoring downB allow for Olimar to live on to stupidly high percents.

Punish Moves:
•Purple smashes
•Blue throws
•Red aerials
•DAIR

For DPS, Olimar's pikmin latch onto the opponent and tick away until they've been knocked off, and if Olimar connects with a white then gets a grab... Say hello to 0-80% in 2 of the stupidest seconds of that match.


Lucario: Carry Punish Gimmick
Carry- 8
Stock Tank- 8
Punisher- 6-10 (dependent on percent/stock lead or defecit)
DPS- 8
Energy Projectile (Punish/DPS)


Lucario is BEST played as a gimmick character, as has been demonstrated by Lee Martin time and time again.

Gimmick: 2v1ing the opposing team. WHAT?! That's right.

Due to Lucario's crazy aura capabilities, 2v1ing the opponents gives Lucario an insane damage/knockback boost. For every 1 stock that your teammate has over you (up to 2) you, as Lucario, gain roughly 20% knockback. So when YOU have 1 stock, and your teammate has 3, you can kill with a fresh fsmash at roughly 50%


Kirby: Punish Gimmick
Carry- 6
Stock Tank- 5
Punisher- 8
DPS- 7
Good Offensive Support
Great Defensive Support
Energy Projectile (DPS)


Kirby's gimmick is swallowing his teammate (that is if your teammate has a good neutral B move).

Kirby has great throw set-ups, a good damage racking CG, an excellent recovery, awesome kill moves and to top it off- a sex grab! Of course, his range is slightly lacking and his moveset slightly telegraphed, but it's Doubles, so he's not as punished as he would be in Singles!

For Stock Tanking, Kirby's not necessarily going to offer you the best bang for your buck, he is TOO light and his moves aren't ranged enough to offer you a sort of wall between yourself and your opponents.

Punish Moves:
•Fsmash
•Dsmash
•Usmash
•Hammer
•Dair
•Rock

Kirby's jab, tilts, and throws are great for building damage, as is his CG/early damage string. Kirby is good for racking damage, but odds are he's going to be the punisher for your team.


ROB: Tank DPS (projectiles)
Carry- 5
Stock Tank- 9
Punisher- 6
DPS- 8
Decent Offensive Support
Energy Projectile (Punish)


ROB has great range, he's heavy, has an amazing recovery, and extremely annoying projectiles. His only two problems are being juggled, and his huge frame. Unfortunately, he's not going to be clutching too often, as his inability to stop himself from being juggled by most characters in 1v1s is already a hindrance, just imagine a 2v1!

As a Stock Tank, ROB is excellent. He can peck and prod his opponents from a safe distance, and whenever his teammate is in a bind, his laser is excellent for breaking up combos (from just about anywhere on the screen to boot). His recovery is nearly ungimpable (hello Metaknight) and his planking is downright nasty.

Punish Moves:
•Nair
•Bair
•Fsmash
•Usmash
•Gyro
•Fully charged laser
•Dair

ROB's other great strength is his damage racking. It doesn't matter what percent his opponents are at, or where they are on the stage, odds are he can string a few moves together anyway, and keep on pecking from afar.


Zero Suit Samus: DPS Gimmick
Carry- 6
Stock Tank- 6
Punisher- 6
DPS- 9
Amazing Offensive Support
Decent Defensive Support
Energy Projectile (Punish/DPS)


ZSS, who arguably has the best energy projectile (her dsmash for those of you who are unaware) is of course, an amazing teammate for characters who can abuse said attack. GnW, Lucas, and Ness can all abuse the dsmash to swing entire matches in their favor, so she's always a favorite to team with for those characters.


Pikachu: Punish
Carry- 7
Stock Tank- 7
Punisher- 8
DPS- 8
Good Offensive Support
Minor Interference
Energy Projectile (Punish/DPS)


Pikachu's dsmash has a VERY long hitbox if it's hitting anyone, so don't go running up next to him in order to cover him from being punished, just wait for him to be punished and either save him from certain death, or punish the opponent taking advantage of the lag ;P

ALWAYS watch out for Thunder when teaming with Pikachu!

Pikachu has one of the best spam projectiles, another one that's amazing for vertical harassment, a GREAT gtfo move, some nasty aerials, and a GREAT kill move. He's awesome! Unfortunately he's VERY light, and his recovery's (despite being pretty fast) still pretty predictable.

Pikachu is VERY light, and as has been mentioned, has a predictable recovery. Fortunately, he's still got a great playstyle for keeping himself alive using keepaway tactics, otherwise stock tanking would be one of Pikachu's weaknesses.

Punish Moves:
•DownB (second hitbox)
•Fsmash
•DownB (lightning hitbox)
•Nair
•Usmash

DPS-wise, Pikachu has an amazing chaingrab (and at the very least a string at early percents) and his projectile/QAC game allow for him to be a threat from **** near anywhere on the stage.

Offensive Support:
•Fthrow
•Dthrow
•Thunder


Mr. Game & Watch: Punish Gimmick
Carry- 7
Stock Tank- 8
Punisher- 10*** (just pretend this is a 9 Zac )
DPS- 8
Good Offensive Support
Great Defensive Support
Absorber (Offensive)


As a Carry ... GnW isn't necessarily "the best" but looking at the scenario from an alternative viewpoint would tell you that doesn't matter- he kills his opponents BEFORE a clutch or lose situation is forced upon him, he's that good!

Stock Tanking as GnW can be retardedly easy (he's one of the best plankers in the game... ugh) and he's got a very difficult to punish moveset (not to mention 1 whiff of a kill move can mean a lost stock anywhere near 80% for GnW's foes!) AND he has the best bucket brake in the game! ... or it can be pretty **** difficult if your opponent has very good vertical kill moves and their partner gets a grab off on you.

Punish Moves:
•C-stick
•Touch your controller

For DPS, GnW has a plethora of moves that when connected just once, do about 15% on average (**** you Gaymanwatch,) some pretty reliable damage strings, as well as a tech-chase CG that allows for some doubles tomfoolery to ensue!

G&W's Gimmick is, of course, the bucket. 3 charges of moderately strong projectiles and you've got yourself the scariest, least punishable kill move in the game.

*** Judgment, usmash, fsmash, dsmash, freaking everything GnW has, kills. He is without a doubt the best punishing character in doubles, and it's no wonder he's regarded as one of the top doubles characters.


Toon Link: Tank DPS (projectiles)
Carry- 6
Stock Tank- 8
Punisher- 6
DPS- 7
Decent Defensive Support
Moderate Interference Issues


Toon Link, with his bad match-ups across the high-tier board (especially those *******s Snake and MK) puts him straight away at a disadvantage in a Carrying scenario. He can't really force an approach when he's behind, which is your main concern when trying to clutch a 2v1, and he doesn't necessarily "destroy" anyone in 2v2s, as he needs much more room to work his magic to its fullest. Carrying isn't his forte.

Stock Tanking on the other hand ... TL is certainly a beast. His keepaway game is rivaled only by the likes of Falco or Pit, except his projectiles are more flexible in that they come out faster (than Pit) and are extremely versatile (in comparison to Falco). His zair is an excellent tool to keep threats to a minimum, and all of these things only help him to rack up damage, something every team needs in order to succeed.

Punish Moves:
•Usmash
•Uair
•Fsmash
•Dsmash (very strange mechanics to this move)
•Fair (everything kills at 180!)

For DPS TL relies primarily on his projectiles, of course, but also on his great close range capabilities, a sort of hit and run tactic, except as he's running, he's still pressuring you with annoying projectiles (and since one of them is technically an item, his mix-ups are amazing).

TL's primary interference issue is, of course, his projectiles. Luckily they are so great and varied that through the TL alone being an intelligent player, interference can be kept to a minimum.

Video:

MJG (TL) & Domo (MK) @ some tourney.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsP4HC6CjvU

This is an excellent video depicting what TL's playstyle should resemble, slow, and defensive, while constantly harassing the opponents through means of projectiles, while your teammate plays up close.


Donkey Kong: Tank Punish
Carry- 4
Stock Tank- 8/10***
Punisher- 9
DPS- 6
Good Offensive Support
Good Defensive Support
Minor Interference Issues


Carrying, DK definitely struggles. He has great range, great kill power, great survivability (minus gimping) and even has a FAST moveset, what holds him back? His gigantic frame, and his gigantic frame alone. He is huge, so he's just cannon fodder for a plethora of moves being thrown out by a large majority of the cast. DK could hold his own in a very select few 2v1 match-ups. Of course, since he IS a great character minus the 2v1 scenario, he's still only a below average choice for a Carry.

In the land of Stock Tanks, DK is a God. He is extremely heavy, and has quite enough range to keep his opponents at bay. His one issue is his being juggled by 2 opponents, his huge frame (once again!) gives him issues in Doubles. In order to curb this, his teammate just needs to keep in the fray and be sure to not get knocked too far off the stage (unavoidable at times, but it just means playing a little less aggressive).

Punish Moves:
•Dsmash
•9 wind (Stronger than 10 wind, without the Super Armor)
•10 wind (fully charged DK punch)
•Uair* (typically staled)
•Fsmash
•Usmash
•Bair* (typically staled)

DK's forced playstyle is slightly detrimental to what his DPS COULD be. Because he wants to go for the kills though, it's well worth it.

Offensive Support:
•Cargo Hold
•Dthrow

Defensive Support:
•Huge frame
•Fast horizontal aerial speed
•Good "poking" move (upB)

*** He has the absolute highest survivability of any character in Brawl (due to his upB bucket brake and overall weight) so he's one of the BEST stock tanks, IF you can babysit him well enough.


Pit: Tank DPS (projectiles)
Carry- 2
Stock Tank- 8
Punisher- 5
DPS- 7
Decent Offensive Support
Great Defensive Support
Energy Projectile (Punish/DPS)


Carrying is DEFINITELY not where Pit stands strong. He needs room to breathe in order to play effectively, and unfortunately he's not going to get that with his lack of mobility (or rather, due to the fact that most characters are faster than him). The other, just as awful circumstance Pit falls under is the fact that his recovery, though very long winded, is easily gimpable by MK alone (the hands down MOST USED character in Doubles) or most teams of characters focusing on hindering his recovery.

Stock Tank: Funnily enough, despite his light weight and predictable recovery, Pit is a very capable Stock Tank, who's style is reminiscent of Toon Link. He gets in, and gets out, and then starts harassing with his arrows, which are much more capable than just about every other projectile in the game, at aiding a teammate in most situations.

Punish Moves:
•Bair
•Dsmash
•Fsmash* (usually staled)

DPS-wise, Pit is great. His arrows, in combination with his keepaway game (utilt comes out on frame 2 ><) make him a constant threat, and definitely a very annoying character to fight against in Doubles. Even when he's offstage, he's still pressuring with those **** arrows! This is why no one likes Pit.

Offensive Support:
•SideB (doubles knockback of projectiles)
•Arrows

Defensive Support:
•Arrows (save your teammate when recovering)
•Shield blocks all projectiles in a line
•SideB (same thing, slightly slower but larger reflecting wall)


Peach: DPS
Carry- 5
Stock Tank- 6
Punisher- 7
DPS- 9
Good Offensive Support


Oh Peach, you have fast, great aerials, amazing horizontal aerial mobility, a great keepaway game, and the hands down worst air dodge in the game, coupled with a moderate range issue. She's not the best, nor is she the worst. She's somewhere in between, when it comes to pulling out in that clutch situation.

As a Stock Tank, Peach's poor recovery and light weight force her to play keepaway in order to succeed. Turnip camping is a must in order to keep a hold of the stocks, and her fast aerials and amazing jab can keep her opponents at bay, so she has the tools to keep stocks, it's just a completely different style than most Peaches are used to. Except nairing at all times, they're used to that XD

Punish Moves:
•Usmash
•Fair
•Fsmash
•Bair (usually stale)
•Nair (always stale)
•Bob-omb (random)
•Stitch Face (random)
•Beam Sword (random)

As opposed to Stock Tanking, DPS is where Peach can really turn things on. Her dair strings into another (when not DId, and it's a difficult move to DI in the first place) her uair strings into true combos if performed correctly, she can hit her opponent with the same turnip twice in one short hop and finish it with a nair, and her aerials have a dominating amount of priority to them.

Offensive Support:
•Dthrow
•Dair (shield pressure)


Ike: Punish
Carry- 3
Stock Tank- 7
Punisher- 9
DPS- 6
Good Offensive Support


Ike suffers greatly from low-tier syndrome. He can't compete with better characters (or rather, a certain few troublesome characters) so it isn't necessarily the best idea to rely on him as the main component of a team. He has a poor recovery, and most of his moves have either a huge startup, or an enormous amount of ending lag. This means that, though he can definitely devastate an opponent with great kill moves ... he's open for punishment the instant it happens.

As a Stock Tank, Ike has a decent recovery (so long as you're DIing properly and recover intelligently, there's no reason you should be getting gimped every game) so he doesn't necessarily get destroyed offstage, but it's still not an amazing one like Pit or ROB, so he's still going to get beat up a bit. His weight allows for him to live longer than most, and his excellent jab allows for him to regain tempo when it's most needed.

Punish Moves:
•Fsmash* (requires teamwork!!!)
•Usmash
•Bair
•Uair
•Utilt
•Ftilt
•Dair

For DPS, Ike is good but there are definitely better, one of his friends is definitely one of them. His primary issue is mobility, he can definitely open up a can of whoop *** on people with his superior range and great damage output per move, but it's kind of lost on the fact that he knocks his opponents back into a neutral scenario after he unleashes the pain on them.

Offensive Support:
•Bthrow
•Fthrow
•Jab Cancels


Sonic: Tank Support
Carry- 6
Stock Tank- 8
Punisher- 6
DPS- 6
Great Offensive Support
Great Defensive Support


Wolf: Tank Punish
Carry- 3
Stock Tank- 8
Punisher- 7
DPS- 6
Good Offensive Support
Moderate Interference Issues
Energy Projectile (Punish)


Luigi: Punish
SWF Doubles Thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=276137
Carry- 4
Stock Tank- 6
Punisher- 9
DPS- 8
Energy Projectile (Punish/DPS)


Ness: Punish Gimmick
SWF Doubles Thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=270134
Carry- 2
Stock Tank- 5/8
Punisher- 7
DPS- 6
Decent Offensive Support
Great Defensive Support
Moderate Interference
Energy Projectile (Punish/DPS)
Absorber (Defensive)


Squirtle: DPS Punish
Carry- 7
Stock Tank- 5
Punisher- 7
DPS- 8
Good Offensive Support


Charizard: Tank
Carry- 4
Stock Tank- 7
Punisher- 6
DPS- 5
Moderate Interference
Energy Projectile (DPS)


Ivysaur: Punish
Carry- 1
Stock Tank- 2
Punisher- 8
DPS- 7
Decent Offensive Support
Moderate Interference Issues


Zelda: Punish Gimmick
Carry- 2
Stock Tank- 4
Punisher- 8
DPS- 5
Good Offensive Support
Decent Defensive Support
Minor Interference Issues
Energy Projectile (Punish/DPS)


:shiek: Sheik: DPS
Carry- 3
Stock Tank- 5
Punisher- 6
DPS- 8
Decent Offensive Support


Fox: DPS Punish
Carry- 5
Stock Tank- 4
Punisher- 8
DPS- 8
Decent Offensive Support
Minor Interference Issues
Energy Projectile (DPS)


Link: Tank DPS (projectile)
SWF Doubles Thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=274758
Carry- 1
Stock Tank- 7
Punisher- 6
DPS- 6
Decent Offensive Support
Large Interference Issues


Yoshi: Tank DPS (Projectile) Assist
Carry- 5
Stock Tank- 9
Punisher- 7
DPS- 7
Great Offensive Support
Decent Defensive Support


Bowser: Tank Punish
Carry- 1
Stock Tank- 2/9 (babysitting)
Punisher- 7
DPS- 4
Energy Projectile (DPS)


Mario: Tank DPS (projectile)
Carry- 5
Stock Tank- 5/8 (babysitting)
Punisher-6
DPS- 7
Great Offensive Support
Decent Defensive Support
Minor Interference Issues
Energy Projectile (Punish/DPS)


Ganondorf: Punish
Carry- 1
Stock Tank- 1/7 (babysitting)
Punisher- 8
DPS- 4
Great Offensive Support
Decent Defensive Support
Large Interference Issues


Lucas: Punish Tank Gimmick
SWF Doubles Thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=10180044#post10180044
Carry- 2
Stock Tank- 6/9
Punisher- 9
DPS- 7
Great Offensive Support
Good Defensive Support
Moderate Interference Issues
Absorber
Energy Projectile (Punish/DPS)


Samus: Tank DPS (projectile)
Carry- 2
Stock Tank- 7
Punisher- 4
DPS- 6
Decent Offensive Support
Good Defensive Support
Minor Interference Issues
Energy Projectile (Punish/DPS)


Justice Man: Tank
SWF Doubles Thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=270147
Carry- 2
Stock Tank- 3/8 (babysitting)
Punisher- 6
DPS- 4
Good Offensive Support
Decent Defensive Support
Moderate Interference Issues


Jigglypuff: Punish/Assist
Carry- 1
Stock Tank- 2
Punisher- 8
DPS- 4
Great Defensive Support


******WIP******

There will eventually be a write-up explaining each character's best suited task in doubles, as well as their faults/who they would be best to team with (characteristic-wise).

All input is appreciated.

Nice idea. I like it.

If any help is needed for this project, send me a PM.

I'll try to help with ROB's statistics.

I'd like to see a guide on how to play 1v2 efficiently. Eventually.

Peach is one of the best @ DPS. No wonder she is such a good teamate! She can also stock tank well, and can be a pretty good punisher as her range is not enough to overwhelm her teamate's spacing. If you think about it, Peach is pretty versatile and can fit all of these positions.

Nice ****! Good info, taught me things I didn't.
I think I'm a carrier, I think.

Dk should have a 10 in punishment.

d-smash, up-smash, f-smash, Punch, everything he has is a punish

but he'll still have a mid-high score

also I think DDD should have a high survivability than G&W.

toon link is not an 8 for stock tank I'd say 7 if marth is a 6

lucario should also be a 7 for stock tank

i'd a thought d3 would be a 10 for stock tank. but guess not

Ganondorf:
Carry- 2
Stock Tank- 5
Punisher- 9
DPS- 6

That's my estimate anyway. With the right partner (MK is the best, since he can save him offstage and has good DPS), Ganon is actually good in teams.

two MK is win.

Jigglypuff has sing? Does that help?

/People trying to find uses for Puff in doubles.

Carry- 5-6
Stock Tank- 1
Punisher-1-2
DPS-7

First off, if you consistently live FOREVER, your opponent has no need of worrying about being left alone in a 2v1, but more importantly, they can share stock you, ultimately leading to victory when otherwise the Stock Tank partner may not have clinched it alone.

Click to expand...

Did you mean your teammate?

Ics are viables in doubles : )

snake/mk = best team.

mk/mk = 2nd best team.

wario/mk = 3rd best team.


Facts.

MK + G&W and Zamus + G&W are great teams possibilities.

Super good read. I rarely ever do doubles but nonetheless I still had a good read from this. Snake seems to be the best stock tank by far. His weight drastically improves his chance of living and Snakes are plentiful making a partner very easy to find.

Lucas + Zamus = Grape

Galeon said:

I still think ZSS is by far the best. Btw, it's about 23% healing per dsmash and its very spammable. The hitbox also stays and can hit people trying to interrupt. There's also random amazingness like:

-ZSS can d-smash to footstool and its a free jab lock for you. Can be done mid match if the ZSS can keep someone away, when the partner just died and is coming back or in a 2 on 1 situation (way better than double pummel).

-If you ever do land a jab lock and are running short on time (their partner just came back on angel platform or is rushing to attack you), you can do your dsmash to end the jab lock. On reaction, ZSS can do her dsmash. What happens is that the second 2 hits of dsmash dont have enough strength to break them out of Zamus's dsmash meaning the guy getting jab locked just took 50%+ from all 3 hits of dsmash plus her dsmash and is probably dead. Most satisfying feeling in the game.

-You can also infinite people in 2 on 1 situations with ZSS dsmashing people and you footstooling them back down (stopping momentum with magnet) to get dsmashed again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaaJTWSqwTQ skip to 6:22

But all of those are just gimmicks. Both of them have strong killing moves and setups. ZSS's dsmash is like a shoutout to Lucas to come get a free point with a smash. If either of them can stop active edgeguarding, the partner will always be able to recover. They also both can rack up damage fast. It's like perfect.

Click to expand...

Lucas is one of the best stock tanks when you teammate has an energy projectile

Excellent work, Dekar. This is a great start!

RocketPSIence said:

Lucas + Zamus = Grape



Lucas is one of the best stock tanks when you teammate has an energy projectile

Click to expand...

This.

Will there also be a sub-guide about energy munchers like Ness and Lucas in the guide?

Do I sense something similar to my idea... hmmmm


Off to a good start, Needs more categories and differentiation between them though, at the very least needs a category for a character that's literal purpose is to control space limiting your opponent's options so that your teammate is able do take advantage of this. Marth and (dare I say it) Zelda are actually quite good at this, and works well with a good carry, punisher, or DPS character.

Yea, ROB and ICs are wrong in this guide

Also I think some of your definitions for your terms are as well.

You're also not taking matchups into account at all which can completely switch a characters versatility.

You're also heavily overating doubles diddy there a bit u diddy main lol

I agree with Adumbrodeus on the space control aspect. And I may be bias but I could see Zelda and Marth serving such a purpose.

Heres a potshot at Luigi (my doubles character)

Clutch-6 1/2
Punisher-9 (10+ if you have good Up B setups with your partner.)
DPS-7 1/2
Stocktank-6 (This could be improved substantially by the right player due to rediculous recovery and evasion options)

Diddy is a very limited 2v2 player, but for the roles he can fit he can fit them well.

Seriously. You have to change how you play completley 90% of the time, but I've seen both mediocre and good Diddy's do superbly at 2v1 AND as stock tanks.

Other than that not so much, but Diddy can do a great job doing what he can do well.

Space control characters are ones that either:

1. Zones well (ex. Marth MK)
2. Have a strong defensive game so simply being there is deadly (Zelda... never gets to use it in singles though).
3. Have good projectiles.


Basically, is good at limiting options, (eg. retreat, attack patterns, etc). Mostly good in a pincher position.

also, I fully approve of DotA/LoL-esque terms like "carry" and "tank" for doubles.

I really really like this. good work so far.
However, I do believe a team could suppot the ICs if both players were in synch.
and also...

Olimar:
Carry- 3
Stock Tank- 6
Punisher- 9
DPS- 7

I would say Olimar has a higher DPS. a god Olimar can rack up damage like ****

I cant see how Wario doesnt rate a 10 in stock tank.

Also these numbers look very arbitrary; do you plan on this being a collaborative list or just your opinion? IC being the prime example, just because they are no where near as good in 2vs2 as they are in 1vs1 doesnt mean they are still abysmal in all aspects, 4 1's is a massive exaggeration.

Never thought of doubles with tanks and dps before. Good read.

bigkoose said:

Never thought of doubles with tanks and dps before. Good read.

Click to expand...

after seeing your avatar, I read your post in Nigel Thorberry's voice

ChiboSempai said:

Yea, ROB and ICs are wrong in this guide

Also I think some of your definitions for your terms are as well.

You're also not taking matchups into account at all which can completely switch a characters versatility.

You're also heavily overating doubles diddy there a bit u diddy main lol

Click to expand...

ICs I wasn't really attempting to write up anything for them, I wanted some IC main input on the subject, because ICs are such a unique character to play as that just because you know how to play against them, doesn't mean you really know anything about them ;P

As for the definitions, what would you add/change? Of course as has been stated I haven't added any gimmick teams/things that can be done, but that's reserved for much later, when it's actually in completion.

Match-ups are MUCH less important in Doubles than they are in Singles. Imo top of low-tier and up, if you're playing one of those characters you've still got a chance to do some damage in high level doubles play. Of course there are some REALLY stupid things that happen, but I'd lump those up with "negative" gimmicks that effect characters.

As for Diddy, being the most technical character in the game makes him a bit more flexible for doubles play than most characters.

Overswarm said:

Diddy is a very limited 2v2 player, but for the roles he can fit he can fit them well.

Seriously. You have to change how you play completley 90% of the time, but I've seen both mediocre and good Diddy's do superbly at 2v1 AND as stock tanks.

Other than that not so much, but Diddy can do a great job doing what he can do well.

Click to expand...

Diddy doesn't have to change up his style so much as his teammates have to. They have to know how to control bananas, as well as pay attention to Diddy so they can take advantage of some easy/early kills.

One style for Diddy works (carry,) imo, and another style doesn't (support).

adumbrodeus said:

Space control characters are ones that either:

1. Zones well (ex. Marth MK)
2. Have a strong defensive game so simply being there is deadly (Zelda... never gets to use it in singles though).
3. Have good projectiles.


Basically, is good at limiting options, (eg. retreat, attack patterns, etc). Mostly good in a pincher position.

Click to expand...

As for spacing, I'm not quite sure how I would define it for most characters, certain aspects of a characters ability to space are completely shut down by the prospect of having a teammate.

DJBrowny said:

I cant see how Wario doesnt rate a 10 in stock tank.

Also these numbers look very arbitrary; do you plan on this being a collaborative list or just your opinion? IC being the prime example, just because they are no where near as good in 2vs2 as they are in 1vs1 doesnt mean they are still abysmal in all aspects, 4 1's is a massive exaggeration.

Click to expand...

Wario isn't a 10 because of grab releases, they **** him HARD, and his recovery is rather gimpable.

Also, yes, I'm absolutely up for suggestions/changes to the numbering system. I'm not infallible

LaIotun said:

Did you mean your teammate?

Click to expand...

Lmao. Good catch, knew I'd make that grammatical error somewhere ~.~

Yo, Peach is excellent in teams, with the right partner (someone that kills, basically).

Carry - 3
Stock Tank - 7.5
Punisher - 5
DPS - 10

She's a surprisingly good stock tank thanks to good momentum cancelling, a versatile recovery, high priority + low lag moves, and good evasive capabilities. She's also a superb damage racker and is able to take little damage in return. She can punish laggy moves well and can revenge kill opponents who have just killed her teammate quite well thanks to her powerful Usmash, which is much easier to land in doubles than singles. She can hold her own on 1v1 and is capable of doing 2v1 as long as her opponents are at mid-high percent. She also has pretty good matchups, so she will never be stuck fighting someone she absolutely can't deal with (unless it's MK). If she isn't fighting a team of double MK, she's really ****ing good at doubles.

A lot of characters have a higher rating than they should for stock tank. Some people *cough* are overrating their mains as well.

Here's what I feel is appropriate for Bowser:

Carry - 1
Stock Tank - 8
Punisher - 6
DPS - 3

Change stock tank to 7 when you've changed everybody else's to a more realistic number. The reason Bowser has such a bad DPS rating is because you can easily get punished by the opponent's teammate for klaw'ing, fortress'ing, using firebreath or attempting grab release stuff. You can still pull it off if your teammate keeps the other guy busy of course, which is why I didn't rate him lower than a 3.

If wario is being punished by grab release in teams on a consistent basis, he has bad teammates.

Ironboots33 said:

Yo, Peach is excellent in teams, with the right partner (someone that kills, basically).

Carry - 3
Stock Tank - 7.5
Punisher - 5
DPS - 10

She's a surprisingly good stock tank thanks to good momentum cancelling, a versatile recovery, high priority + low lag moves, and good evasive capabilities. She's also a superb damage racker and is able to take little damage in return. She can punish laggy moves well and can revenge kill opponents who have just killed her teammate quite well thanks to her powerful Usmash, which is much easier to land in doubles than singles. She can hold her own on 1v1 and is capable of doing 2v1 as long as her opponents are at mid-high percent. She also has pretty good matchups, so she will never be stuck fighting someone she absolutely can't deal with (unless it's MK). If she isn't fighting a team of double MK, she's really ****ing good at doubles.

Click to expand...

I agree, Peach's damage racking capabilities are insane in teams. Even a double MK team wouldn't be that bad IMO. Although there are two of them, with the right partner she shouldn't have too much trouble, since the MKs don't have as much room to move around and avoid being punished by her, as they would in singles.

Overswarm said:

If wario is being punished by grab release in teams on a consistent basis, he has bad teammates.

Click to expand...

I agree with this as well, Wario's grab release is pretty much a non issue in teams, until it becomes a 1v2 for him.

On Ice Climbers is doubles:

I'm not entirely sure about them in doubles. I think they are better than people think, but not as good as in singles by any means.

In my experience, they get grabs constantly from all the chaos, but your CGs only do like 30% because of teammate interference. Desynching in all the chaos is near impossible, but it's also not as important. They create great juggle traps as usual, and those are way easier to set up. They have fairly good KO power, but it's not too easy to land anything other than Bair (which isn't their strongest ko move by any means....). I think ICs might be good with a GaW, MK, or Marth, who can just create a wall with range, so that your opponent can't disrupt the CGs.

I'd also like to note that their low mobility and range (minus blizzard, but it will get punished in a 2v1) means they are terrible in 2v1.

Carry: 2
Stock tank: 6(? Unsure about this, people tend to try and avoid playing against the ICs in doubles)
Punisher: 7-10 (highly dependent on who you grab. If your other opponent has low mobility, a grab is insane, but if it's a MK or Wario, that CG won't be lasting long. Uair is still an amazing punish though. Highly situational oberall, but never bad0
DPS: 8 (see above. not so easy to tell)