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Stage Information Database and Q&A

ぱみゅ

ぱみゅ

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Good luck, Twinkie!

(Back into Smash)
People here started complaining for me trying to test rules, moreover, about MK starting dominating here.
I said "as we haven't had any serious tournament, I'll keep testing. You can make your own rules if you host your tournament, that's what I've been doing."
I'm affraid I'll lose people that way :(

The rule "Winner may announce up to x stage bans, OR x-1 stage bans and 1 character ban -except the already chosen one- for the next round. If winner announced one character, loser may announce one as well" got interesting results.
Using 2 characters is hellish hard, if you use one on a MU you're not too confident with, opponent can ban the other character, adding extra pressure (or making people run to MK). More than 2 mains is very interesting to watch, though.

In the end, only one guy has suddently started relying more in MK and winning (although I almost beat him), but it is probably annoying for other players to get used to the rule... or to MK being there (winning or not).
 
Kuro~

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
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SaveMeJebus said:
Jab locks aren't even legit. You can easily DI away from them.You may get like two free hits off of them but that's about it.
Click to expand...
Play hrnut on that stage and then say that. So much free setups and damage if u don't tech. Which u should be able to do anyways.
 
Tesh

Tesh

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There are plenty of situations where you just get hit again if you tech.
 
Tesh

Tesh

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I was talking about ceiling techs on skyworld. I'm pretty sure you can't tech the clouds.
 
KuroganeHammer

KuroganeHammer

It's ya boy
BRoomer
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But Castle Siege should be a counterpick.

Dunno why unity has it as a starter.

Not sure what they were thinking tbh.
 
Budget Player Cadet_

Budget Player Cadet_

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Aerodrome said:
But Castle Siege should be a counterpick.

Dunno why unity has it as a starter.

Not sure what they were thinking tbh.
Click to expand...
Two factors:

1. The more starters, the more balanced overall the stage will be round 1. This is something we've been over quite a bit.
2. CS is ridiculously balanced. Like, better than SV or BF. Sure, some matchups go wonky, but not nearly as many as on other established starters. It's up there with PS2, IMO.
 
Tesh

Tesh

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Pretty sure Castle Siege isn't random. The only variable there is just how much time you spend on the transforming flat stage due to load times.

No reason to ban YI without banning....Frigate as well.

Castle Siege imo is a starter because they wanted another ground heavy stage so people wont cry about metaknight. I think Halberd and Delfino are fairer choices. Wouldn't say its that balanced. Its a poor stage for many aerial characters.
 
KuroganeHammer

KuroganeHammer

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YI comment was purely for laughs. I don't really think it should be banned.

But I don't think CS should be a starter because walkoffs.

imo anyway
 
WindMajor

WindMajor

.
Joined
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I always figured CS's starter qualities went like this:

1st transformation: small confined area, promotes aggressive play, promotes minor platform camping, has 2 ledges, can't scrooge, slope in terrain.

2nd transformation: large area with numerous platforms, promotes campier/keep away playstyles, statues hinder projectile-based play, no ledges, can't scrooge/plank, 2 walk-offs.

3rd transformation: plays like FD without scrooging: flat terrain, no plats, lots of room, focus on grounded combat, 2 ledges, can't scrooge, tilting terrain ala Lylat, etc.



Basically, all three transformations promote different kinds of playstyles, and not just one. Although the stage is somewhat dynamic, the stage barely interferes with combat (so you get that focus on PvP combat that everyone seems to love).
 
Tesh

Tesh

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Walkoffs are kind of a minor issue on Castle Siege. Its just like Ps1 walls. The layout of the stage lets to camp it out if you don't like it.

Abusing the walkoff with most characters in the first place requires them to play defensively for an early backthrow/dsmash etc. kill near the side. Its not really the kind of issue that can be forced upon you by aggression, like the ledgeless side of Frigate or the movement of RC, Brinstar. If you are patient, it won't affect you.




On another note, I was thinking of stages that might yet bet saved by an OSF ruleset. Distant Planet, YI Pipes and even Summit come to mind. Stages with aerial based circle camps become viable as the slower character can wait at the bottom of the circle and reap the benefits. Summit would still be a pretty hard CP though with the ledgeless opening phase and the fish though. Very high stakes offstage play.

I may actually craft my official ruleset for the OP finally.
 
Tesh

Tesh

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Summit could still be trouble with MK legal though. Its one of those stages like PTAD where even when you get past all the camping issues, people are gonna get RAAAPED by diminished recovery options while MK can still glide, drill, nado and cape safely onto platforms.
 
KuroganeHammer

KuroganeHammer

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Yeah, characters with good recoveries would be good there, but I'd feel sorry for all the Olimar mains out there.

OSF is 1 stock plus food right?
 
-LzR-

-LzR-

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Olimar has a hard time recovering anyways. On port town the road will give him another chance for the cost of damage.

:phone:
 
Ghostbone

Ghostbone

Smash Master
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Sep 20, 2010
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zApollo said:
If you're gunna complain about that, ban castle siege first.
Click to expand...
Yea but Yoshi's Island is random and gives no warning, there's a difference.

And CS is pretty neutral, it's kinda similar to PS1, you just camp out the middle transformation The stage takes about 2:15 to cycle through once (the transforming time is inconsistent :/)
40 seconds for each transformation, so that's at least 80 seconds of fighting every 135 seconds. Which is about 60% of the time (that's in the campiest match-ups, assuming no damage is done during the middle transformation). But really we can't assume that, especially since the statues refresh moves, characters will be killed at lower percentages, mitigating the stalling a bit.

For PTAD, Olimar's dead when he needs to use the ledge on other stages anyway, so it can't be that much worse for him. Plus all the transformations where there's no where to fall off the stage.
If he's bad on the stage it's not because of his recovery.
 
-LzR-

-LzR-

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I don't know a single character I would CP or ban CS against. The stage doesn't offer any immediate advantages to anyone except for a few matchups probably.
Also yay for 3k posts :)
 
Tesh

Tesh

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ghostbone said:
Yea but Yoshi's Island is random and gives no warning, there's a difference.

And CS is pretty neutral, it's kinda similar to PS1, you just camp out the middle transformation The stage takes about 2:15 to cycle through once (the transforming time is inconsistent :/)
40 seconds for each transformation, so that's at least 80 seconds of fighting every 135 seconds. Which is about 60% of the time (that's in the campiest match-ups, assuming no damage is done during the middle transformation). But really we can't assume that, especially since the statues refresh moves, characters will be killed at lower percentages, mitigating the stalling a bit.

For PTAD, Olimar's dead when he needs to use the ledge on other stages anyway, so it can't be that much worse for him. Plus all the transformations where there's no where to fall off the stage.
If he's bad on the stage it's not because of his recovery.
Click to expand...
Its not about situations where he HAS to use the ledge. Its about having mixups during your recovery. One of the most common things you will see when someone is trying to gimp Olimar is the little spaceman using his Up B hop to recover laglessly above edgehoggers. If you take away the ledge, it means thats a major option they NEVER have to cover. Just wait and space an attack on stage. Its an option that rarely works otherwise because he can just grab the ledge.
Grim Tuesday said:
One could argue that Olimar is buffed on PTAD due to the track knocking him back up sometimes.
Click to expand...
That would be a pretty weak arguement. You guys overrate the benefits of being hit by the track. It still puts you into a position to be easily sent back off stage.

The transformations can probably be camped out against Olimar. Keep in mind he isn't really going to be amazing at avoided the car vertically and pikmin tossing won't reach across massive transformations. It'll be just like frigate, where the you can just camp out the 2nd transformation and wait for gimp city.
-LzR- said:
I don't know a single character I would CP or ban CS against. The stage doesn't offer any immediate advantages to anyone except for a few matchups probably.
Also yay for 3k posts :)
Click to expand...
I wouldn't expect it to be the first choice for many matchups either.
 
ぱみゅ

ぱみゅ

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Summit is a problem eregardless the characters you're using.
Neither the fish nor the Ice Block are issues, but the rock in the center is too big and running away around it becomes godly good (literally, circle camping).
I can't think of any projectyle that could stop it efficently.
 
ぱみゅ

ぱみゅ

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You can circle camp and stay grounded in Summit, is like a small version of the left side of Temple, but without ledges...
 
Tesh

Tesh

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No you can't, because your opponent will follow you to the bottom and if you want to keep running away you need to move up top. That is a loss of ground control. 80% of the surfaces where food can spawn and now closer to your opponent. Half of whats left requires you to move towards your opponent and risk a hit.
 
ぱみゅ

ぱみゅ

❤ ~
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Under your skirt
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You're making an extraordinary description of something "interesting to see" other than it being good, bad, broken or anything else. Added depht indeed.
If it turs out to be enjoyable by everyone, I think it would be fine like that.
 
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