04/25/09 - SC Bi-weeklies - YCBTC!

[Argyris]

Phil, are you guys getting snow? AGAIN?

Nope. No white here. At least not yet.

 

[zCasanova]

Charlotte always gets the snow

 

[Argyris]

Charlotte always gets the snow

I don't see any snow up here, but it's cold as **** anyways. I actually hate snow so I'm glad there isn't any.

 

[Some_Kind_of_JokÈ?]

... why is MK banned?

thats rediculious lol.

(no i dont main MK)

 

[Argyris]

... why is MK banned?

thats rediculious lol.

(no i dont main MK)

inb4mkrant

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the rule is ridiculous. He's not banned anywhere else. Banning him here means we don't get practice against everyone using him everywhere else. I believe he should be banned myself, but only if a universal ban is enforced.

 

[Some_Kind_of_JokÈ?]

inb4mkrant

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the rule is ridiculous. He's not banned anywhere else. Banning him here means we don't get practice against everyone using him everywhere else. I believe he should be banned myself, but only if a universal ban is enforced.

Agreed. im not trying to start a flame war, i just dont get why youd ban him.
banning him here only makes people from other places think were noobs, and we wont get any experience against him fro when/ if we ever go to larger tourneys in other areas...

 

[zCasanova]

I'm not the only one who decided he should be banned. There were several of us who talked about banning him for months, literally. I'm not going to start listing the various reasons that he should be banned, because there are too many. Just know that the most active Smashers in SC all agreed he should be banned; Crio was going to enforce it after Judgement, ARS banned him from his weeklies and now I'm banning him from the bi-weeklies. There were several others who agreed he should be banned as well, not just us three.

This wasn't just something we up and decided to do; over the duration of Brawl's first year, most of us attended 50+ tournaments—weeklies, monthlies, bi-weeklies and on many occasions, OOS tournaments, as well. We've traveled to NC, GA, SC, VA and several other states—all of these tournament experiences were considered when the ban issue came up.

As far as MK practice goes, there's always friendlies. It's not like you get the boot for playing him, he's just not tournament legal. There's only been three of these bi-weeklies across two months, so these alone wouldn't provide adequate tournament practice, anyway.

OOS tournaments are the place to go if you're really looking to play competitively—SC's Smash scene is a joke. As far as a Smash scene goes, we're it. As far as a community goes, we're it. As far as tournaments go, we're it. SC has nothing else to offer.

On that note: SC hasn't banned MK, we have. But sadly enough, and not through any choice of our own, we're kind of running a tournament monopoly here, so it may look as though it's a state-wide thing. Honestly, as a state, I think there's more we could worry about than one bi-weekly banning MK. So, until other people decide to pick up and help out the SC Smash scene, they can keep the criticism to themselves—we may have banned MK, but atleast we're doing our part when it comes to the community.

I'm sure this topic won't end here >_<"

 

[Lareit]

Agreed. im not trying to start a flame war, i just dont get why youd ban him.
banning him here only makes people from other places think were noobs, and we wont get any experience against him fro when/ if we ever go to larger tourneys in other areas...

If every walks on eggshells (was going to say *ussyfoot) regarding the MK ban issue, which most smashers actually agree with ironically enough sorta like bush never having the popular vote yet winning the presidency twice, then he'll never be banned as no one wants to be the person who stepped up and said "BAN DAT HOE".

Tournament results, obvious advantages and popular opinion aside. THere is one reason you need to look at to recognize he needs to be banned.

He has no counter pick.

 

[Argyris]

I'm not the only one who decided he should be banned. There were several of us who talked about banning him for months, literally. I'm not going to start listing the various reasons that he should be banned, because there are too many. Just know that the most active Smashers in SC all agreed he should be banned; Crio was going to enforce it after Judgement, ARS banned him from his weeklies and now I'm banning him from the bi-weeklies. There were several others who agreed he should be banned as well, not just us three.

This wasn't just something we up and decided to do; over the duration of Brawl's first year, most of us attended 50+ tournaments—weeklies, monthlies, bi-weeklies and on many occasions, OOS tournaments, as well. We've traveled to NC, GA, SC, VA and several other states—all of these tournament experiences were considered when the ban issue came up.

As far as MK practice goes, there's always friendlies. It's not like you get the boot for playing him, he's just not tournament legal. There's only been three of these bi-weeklies across two months, so these alone wouldn't provide adequate tournament practice, anyway.

OOS tournaments are the place to go if you're really looking to play competitively—SC's Smash scene is a joke. As far as a Smash scene goes, we're it. As far as a community goes, we're it. As far as tournaments go, we're it. SC has nothing else to offer.

On that note: SC hasn't banned MK, we have. But sadly enough, and not through any choice of our own, we're kind of running a tournament monopoly here, so it may look as though it's a state-wide thing. Honestly, as a state, I think there's more we could worry about than one bi-weekly banning MK. So, until other people decide to pick up and help out the SC Smash scene, they can keep the criticism to themselves—we may have banned MK, but atleast we're doing our part when it comes to the community.

I'm sure this topic won't end here >_<"

I'm not the host, so I'm not the one deciding the rules. I'd rather not start another discussion on MK, so I'm not gonna argue about it. My opinion doesn't change, but that's just me.

 

[Lareit]

Even before MK was banned he was never play'd in SC.

Untill Sushi came.

Then joe started dabbling in MK as his counter to D3, which he pulled out a few times.
Then brandon began pulling him when he felt he needed to win.
Then Billy picked him up and did boundlessly better with him then all his previous chrs.
Then Sushi forced Dr.PP to drop his main to counter pick metaknight, with metaknight.

We went from going months without a single MK appearance to having 2 or 3 a week. Eventually capitalizing at 5 of a 12man tournament having MK in their roster.


MK ruins the game competitively simply because he is the competitive game so long as he exists.

 

[Criosphinx]

Then Billy picked him up and did boundlessly better with him then all his previous chrs.
Then Sushi forced Dr.PP to drop his main to counter pick metaknight, with metaknight.

that is my reasoning behind wanting him banned. If he is the singular deciding factor of a matchup (Devin vs. Billy, evidence), then it is a clear and cut choice for ban.

 

[Juno McGrath]

amen. thats how i see it. ban dat hoe.

 

[zCasanova]

Yeah, I want to put Adam's closing sentence in my sig.

When Sushi forced PP to counter-pick MK against his MK—PP being the best in NC—that's sort of what closed the deal for me.

When the closest thing to an even match-up that a character has is a mirror match, how can you not call that ban-worthy?

And, like Adam said, the SBR will probably never reconsider banning MK. I'm not sure what you guys have heard surrounding the issue, but to me, their decision was completely biased—several of the SBR mained MK at the time of the ban issue. Not only that, but its been reported that the vote was indeed in favor to ban MK, but they still decided not to. I can't say how much of that is true, but after reading the thread in General that discussed the SBR not even considering any of the characters below B-tier for actual legit placings, it does seem they're partial one way or another.

You guys should check that thread out, their reasoning for not considering the low-tier characters for actual thought-out placement was because, ''low-tiers don't matter.'' If they're willing to overlook half of the cast when it comes to an official tier list, why would they not over look a single character being broken when it comes to a ban issue?

 

[Some_Kind_of_JokÈ?]

well without MK then marth becomes broke

MK is marths only counter...

so you cant argue that MK needs to be banned b/c he has no bad matchups, because after hes gone Marth then has no bad matchups...

...so yeah.

also for you people saying hes the "only viable" character if hes allowed... thats just wrong. I beat plenty of good MKs with Wario, Snake can beat him if they know the matchup. DK has a nice lead on him on stage due to his range, and DDD can just play SUPER gay and camp to win, ive seen plenty of characters beat even some of the best MKs.

...and Diddy/ Lucario too forgot them

 

[Lareit]

well without MK then marth becomes broke

MK is marths only counter...

so you cant argue that MK needs to be banned b/c he has no bad matchups, because after hes gone Marth then has no bad matchups...

...so yeah.

also for you people saying hes the "only viable" character if hes allowed... thats just wrong. I beat plenty of good MKs with Wario, Snake can beat him if they know the matchup. DK has a nice lead on him on stage due to his range, and DDD can just play SUPER gay and camp to win, ive seen plenty of characters beat even some of the best MKs.

...and Diddy/ Lucario too forgot them

Snake works against marth. But yeah 1 frame invul dolphin slash gives marth alot of flexibility.

And there is a difference between being beat and being the best.
No one denies MK is the best chr in brawl. Infact no one denies he's the best chr by a long shot.
No one denies MK has no disadvantage matchup.
No one denies MK wins more tournaments then any other chr by a long shot.

Simply being beat by another chr or even another player doesn't change that. It means humans are prone to make mistakes, have off days, have good days. We're human, we aren't perfect so you play the averages.

 

[Some_Kind_of_JokÈ?]

well i dont want people to hate me for starting a MK argument so im just going to stop posting about it, the only thing i want to say is that banning MK is not necessary just because hes the best. No other competitive fighting game bans characters unless there made to be too good (like boss characters)

ex: SC4 banned Algol because he was made to be unbeatable, but they didnt ban Yoshimitsu, Mitsurugi, or Carvantes even thought they pretty much ARE unbeatable, and way better than most other characters.

i dont think a ban is fair, but i know your not going to change your mind. and Brawl is still just as unbalanced without him.

 

[Juno McGrath]

in my honest opinion, **** the back room. they are all morons. I mean, just look at adam hes one of the best smash players i have ever met, and he mostly plays falcon. Who is THE lowest tier char. in game, yet somehow, week after week after week, adam beats most of us with the good captain. and only mains snake when nessacary. oh, wait. take a look at JUSTIN. he has NO other characters besides sonic. whom he beats us with often, hell justin's even won a few tournaments. The SBR are dumb, and biased . MK should be banned.

 

[Argyris]

That reminds me... Brandon, are we still gonna do those Kirby vs. MK matches at this?

Edit: I agree with Joe's answer to the MK ban: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyuYiOrJiLU

 

[Mega_$m@sh]

HEY DEVIN I'M TRYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BUT I'M TOO ****ING POOR TO DO ANYTHING--I WOULD GIVE UP ANYTHING TO PLAY IN TOURNAMENTS

WHEN THE WEEKLIES ENDED I LITERALLY CRIED LIKE A ***** BECAUSE I FINALLY STARTED DOING WHAT I WANTED TO DO AND WHEN THAT WAS TAKEN AWAY I CAME CLOSE TO PRETTY MUCH GIVING UP--INSTEAD I DECIDED TO KEEP PUSHING AND IN THE PROCESS I GOT FIRED FROM MY JOB LOOKING FOR A VENUE!

I HOPE THAT ONCE MY VENUE IS READY YOU ALL SUPPORT IT AND HELP ME ACCOMPLISH BEING APART OF SOMETHING I COULDN'T BE BEFORE I FELT LIKE I WOULD FINALLY BE "IN" BUT INSTEAD I GOT BOOTED.............i WILL NEVER GIVE UP CHASING MY DREAM OF PLAYING SMASH!!!

EVEN IF IT KILLS ME!!!!! NONE OF YOU NOT ONE ON THIS WHOLE SITE KNOW HOW BAD I WANT TO COMPETE AND "STUFF AND ISSUES" KEEP STOPPING ME SO I WILL EARN MY RESPECT--YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIKE ME BUT YOU WILL RESPECT ME I PROMISE YOU THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lareit]

HEY DEVIN I'M TRYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BUT I'M TOO ****ING POOR TO DO ANYTHING--I WOULD GIVE UP ANYTHING TO PLAY IN TOURNAMENTS

WHEN THE WEEKLIES ENDED I LITERALLY CRIED LIKE A ***** BECAUSE I FINALLY STARTED DOING WHAT I WANTED TO DO AND WHEN THAT WAS TAKEN AWAY I CAME CLOSE TO PRETTY MUCH GIVING UP--INSTEAD I DECIDED TO KEEP PUSHING AND IN THE PROCESS I GOT FIRED FROM MY JOB LOOKING FOR A VENUE!

I HOPE THAT ONCE MY VENUE IS READY YOU ALL SUPPORT IT AND HELP ME ACCOMPLISH BEING APART OF SOMETHING I COULDN'T BE BEFORE I FELT LIKE I WOULD FINALLY BE "IN" BUT INSTEAD I GOT BOOTED.............i WILL NEVER GIVE UP CHASING MY DREAM OF PLAYING SMASH!!!

EVEN IF IT KILLS ME!!!!! NONE OF YOU NOT ONE ON THIS WHOLE SITE KNOW HOW BAD I WANT TO COMPETE AND "STUFF AND ISSUES" KEEP STOPPING ME SO I WILL EARN MY RESPECT--YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIKE ME BUT YOU WILL RESPECT ME I PROMISE YOU THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If your venue thing works out I'll support it. It is rough being so young that you can't take direct control of your life though.

How did you get booted?

 

[Mega_$m@sh]

I didn't thats just what I felt like.....and it sucks lolz :D

EDIT: I'm just frustrated because I want to be apart of this Smash scene and travel to OOS tourney's and actually be a true smasher--not some ****ING kid who plays by himself at home LOLZ

I have NEVER been to ONE Melee tourney!

 

[Ryanarius]

in my honest opinion, **** the back room. they are all morons. I mean, just look at adam hes one of the best smash players i have ever met, and he mostly plays falcon. Who is THE lowest tier char. in game, yet somehow, week after week after week, adam beats most of us with the good captain. and only mains snake when nessacary. oh, wait. take a look at JUSTIN. he has NO other characters besides sonic. whom he beats us with often, hell justin's even won a few tournaments. The SBR are dumb, and biased . MK should be banned.

the tier list is assuming equal skill. I think adam may simply be good enough to do well with a bad character. The lower part of the list tends to even out quite a bit as well. Also going to snake does kind of show the importance of character. I think you were arguing character doesn't matter.

I do agree the SBR is biased I believe thats why MK isn't more universally banned.

Also @ joke GE always seemed to have a soft ban on mk. In that if someone played mk people generally would give them a hard time and wouldn't respect their skill in winning. Still having mk unbanned if one player picks up mk and does well with him other people are pressured to pick him up as well to be able to compete. Having him banned may be worse preparation for OOS tournaments but I think it makes these tournaments a lot more fun.

 

[Juno McGrath]

the tier list is assuming equal skill. I think adam may simply be good enough to do well with a bad character. The lower part of the list tends to even out quite a bit as well. Also going to snake does kind of show the importance of character. I think you were arguing character doesn't matter.

I do agree the SBR is biased I believe thats why MK isn't more universally banned.

Also @ joke GE always seemed to have a soft ban on mk. In that if someone played mk people generally would give them a hard time and wouldn't respect their skill in winning. Still having mk unbanned if one player picks up mk and does well with him other people are pressured to pick him up as well to be able to compete. Having him banned may be worse preparation for OOS tournaments but I think it makes these tournaments a lot more fun.

its the fact that they used the words 'low tiers dont matter" but agreed man. agreed.

 

[zCasanova]

@Joke --

You can't really compare any of the characters that you listed against MK. The only one who even comes close to holding a candle to him is Snake, and even though they're both in their own tiers (much deserved), Snake still doesn't run even with MK.

That is the entire problem, not that he's the best character, but that he has no disadvantageous match-ups. As I said before, when the closest thing a character has to an even match-up is a mirror, something's wrong.

As far as Marth goes, he statistically runs even with over half of the cast. There's absolutely nothing broken about that. Yes, he can be broken in the right hands, but so can any character—like Snap said, look at Adam's Falcon.

Snake, MK and D3 all beat Marth hands down, unless the Marth player is the better player. Once again, the argument goes back to MK having no even match-ups, excluding himself. Which as Ryan and Adam both said, only proves to drive more and more people toward playing MK.

Just as Adam's said a billion times, why would anyone play any other character except MK, when he's all you need to beat the rest of the cast? There is no reason, and that's what the ban is for. Even in SC, where, as Ryan said, there's a sort of 'soft-ban' on him, towards the end of our GE run, there were several MKs present at the tourneys, and believe it or not, there was even a MK-ditto grand finals match. No blame toward Sanketh, but his MK drove PP to play his MK. Which is exactly what we're trying to avoid.

I'm glad Ryan brought it up, because we're only trying to make these fun for everyone, and according to him, it's working, so that's what we're going to stick with. There's nothing fun about coming to an all-MK tournament, and that's why the rule was started—to prevent just that.

 

[Criosphinx]

Anyway.


I like waffle fries. I think they're delish.

 

[Vilt]

Hmm... I might be able to make it to this. Gonna see if I can round up some Gboro people. I'll get back to you.

One thing that I don't understand is the outta seven thing for singles stuff in the rules.

 

[Lareit]

Hmm... I might be able to make it to this. Gonna see if I can round up some Gboro people. I'll get back to you.

One thing that I don't understand is the outta seven thing for singles stuff in the rules.

I fight you in the first round. You beat me 2 out of 2 matches.

I survive in the losers.

You get sent to the losers bracket at a later time. We meet again in the losers.

We now fight best of 7, with you having already a 2 match lead.

I have to win 4 matches to beat you, while you only have to secure 2 more wins.

It's basically to prevent somone from ****** someone in the first 2 matchs.
Meeting them again in losers and barely losing in the 3rd round of a best of 3 and being out of the tournament when you had already proven you could beat me solidly earlier.

 

[Argyris]

Hmm... I might be able to make it to this. Gonna see if I can round up some Gboro people. I'll get back to you.

One thing that I don't understand is the outta seven thing for singles stuff in the rules.

Whoo! More NC than just me and Joe!

The out of seven rule is for meeting once in the winners bracket and then meeting again in the losers bracket. When meeting in the losers bracket, the two are playing best 4/7, but continuing off of the last set.

For example, Bob beats Bart 2-0 in the Winners bracket and meets him again in the Losers bracket. Bob would have to beat Bart twice but Bart would have to beat Bob four times to win. Finals are exempt from this rule, though.

 

[Vilt]

Makes sense. Kinda seems to elongate these. o.O is that for brawl too?

Just fighting a new set would be fine. Never meant a person who had a problem with that.

 

[Ryanarius]

I think the main reason behind it is so you don't get eliminated by somebody who you had a 3-2 record against.

Its a good rule. I'm pretty sure its for brawl as well.

 

[Vilt]

It makes total sense. I agree that it is a good rule.

It just confused me because I've never seen used before.

 

[Lareit]

It makes total sense. I agree that it is a good rule.

It just confused me because I've never seen used before.

It is a generic rule, that is rarely actually used.

The situation doesn't arrise often. Finals don't apply either. A final regardless if it's winners, losers or grand is a fresh best of 5 period.

And since it happens rarely people forget to enforce it.

 

[zCasanova]

It's actually pretty common, the situation just doesn't arise too often.

Most of the legit tournaments where this rule is used/enforced are generally fairly large, so the odds of two people actually meeting back up before they lose out are small.

 

[Criosphinx]

Vilt I promise I'm going to HERB 2.0 I feel like a twit for missing the first one.

but you should come to this.

 

[Juno McGrath]

link to herb two?!!! GO.

 

[Mega_$m@sh]

Now melee--why does EVERYONE who wins only use Fox, Marth(DEVIN lolz), and Sheik/Falcon?--there is only a handful of samus, mario's and roys...ect -- So Melee is kinda like Brawl in Character matchups

 

[Lareit]

Now melee--why does EVERYONE who wins only use Fox, Marth(DEVIN lolz), and Sheik/Falcon?--there is only a handful of samus, mario's and roys...ect -- So Melee is kinda like Brawl in Character matchups

Falco
Jigglypuff

 

[Mega_$m@sh]

Falco
Jigglypuff

People who play them usually play The top tiers in HIGH level play....USUALLY(Not All Ways)

Example: KillaOR: Main-Jigglypuff/Secondary-Falcon

PC Chris: Main-Falco/Secondaries-Marth and Fox

LOLZ

Who DOESN"T second the Top Tiers -- **** I main Fox/second Marth/third Sheik/Fourth Falcon/and fifth Samus (:D)

 

[BEHR]

Hmm... I might be able to make it to this. Gonna see if I can round up some Gboro people. I'll get back to you.

One thing that I don't understand is the outta seven thing for singles stuff in the rules.

This is a good while. 0 30;


I kinda want to go. :3

 

[zCasanova]

Behr will play Melee with Jiggs.