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A message for the whiners

RyokoYaksa

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In the recent months of watching these rooms, I've come to see many anticipations for Brawl, particularly through the updates releaved the the Dojo. It's good to share one's honest feelings with others. What really grinds my gears though, are the complaints, whining, and general *****ing and moaning of members who are clearly mistaken of the realities of game development or marketing. In other words, whining for the sake of whining, and also for the sake of irritating the moderation, it appears.

1. Understanding division of labor
Here's a simple question I think everyone can understand: Would you put the group in charge of balancing your game's mechanics to work on the game's art direction? Or vice-versa? If the answer is Yes, then forcefully hit yourself in the face with your keyboard until the answer becomes No. A notable product of such a misconception would be the Stickers update.

-And no, an extensive single player mode will not detract from the multiplayer. Single-player has been a stab wound in need of treatment since Smash 64.
If they feel that Brawl's multiplayer is "complete," guess what? That's it. They will move on to other things, and leave their completed projects to the testers. They too, work on a similar schedule of "test till they feel it's done." They'll only go back to it if they're bored. That often isn't possible due to time constraints, which are the same plague even if less content was being produced. The testing is often the phase that is waited on before going gold, after all.

2. The Dojo Updates and Game Content
Guess what? You're not the only person in this world whom Nintendo wishes to sell this game to. Casual players of the game exist. In fact, they greatly outnumber the competive playerbase. A great many aspects of the game are being revealed through the updates on the Dojo, designed to be revealed in a pattern which will appeal to many groups of people. The minor updates will inevitably outnumber the major ones. To keep suspense, it's likely that not every major thing will be revealed by the time Brawl hits the shelves. But it comes to a point where people accuse the updates of "sucking" or "a waste of time" that again, touches my nerves. Chances are, this is coming from the competitive players.

You have the gall to harshly complain that these updates are crap? Tell me, what is the alternative? Either nothing, or the infequent pictures or videos we get through sites like IGN. You're already receiving a free service that is above and beyond the call of duty of a game developer. Actually complaining about it only serves to show one thing: you are selfish, and you're clearly not aware that a game's fan base consists of more people than you.

The rest of my family would more than likely not even be interested in playing this game if it wasn't for good single player (they eventually get bored of getting owned) or the opportunity to mess around with earnable collectibles such as stickers. What makes a game sell and achieve good scores (thus keeping a reputation afloat) is the ability to instill wide appeal. The features being revealed serve just that purpose. And you're actually complaining about them as if, somehow, they'll take away from other parts of the game.

Now though, it's not simply about stickers, is it? Every feature of the game that is not "tournament worthy" is under fire. If you must continue your ******** whines, do so in the update's respective thread in the Dojo update forum.

In short, I can sum up this rant in three, very simple words:

GET. OVER. YOURSELVES. Not everything is about spoonfeeding you from a silver platter every weekday. And yes, I do have to read your mindless drivel.
/rant off
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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::applauds::

This. Was. Amazing!

For myself, I have enjoyed each and every update on the Dojo website. This game is gonna kick some major ***.
 

smashknight91

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Feb 5, 2006
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Thank you RyokoYaksa, you are awesome. All this complaining needed to be addressed, I believe you've summed every thing up perfectly.
 

Takalth

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Feb 1, 2006
Messages
597
Excellent. I always post about the division of labor thing, but people still miss it.

As for the daily updates, while I find most of them mean little to me, I still get something interesting/exciting at least every couple weeks, which is a heck of a lot more than I get for any other game I've ever anticipated.
 

Takeshi245

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Nice post, RyokoYaska. I find it weird when people complain about Sakurai working on a good single player mode will distract him from making a great multiplayer mode. To me, that's nonsense considering how well the series has been because of its multiplayer mode and the fact that Sakurai himself knows this. It's just that some people on the Brawl forums are so pessimist about Brawl, it's weird. One could find it funny.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Well, obviosly people are gonna be all doom and gloom about something new because they are afraid of change. When they realize that what they hold on to may change, they get defensive and pessimistic. For instance, wavedashing and tier lists.

One thing that confuses me is the entire PT controversy. We finally have a new character update and a VERY unique one at that and people still ***** about "I hate pokemon!" or "This is turning into a pokemon game!" Give it a break and be excited for once.
 

Florida

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So you're saying it's ignorant to dislike an update? I'm pretty sure that everyone is thankful for getting daily blogs from Sakurai, so don't send out the "you should be thankful you're even getting updates!" stuff. Not everyone has to like each and every update, some of them I was disappointed about as well. The "You Must Recover!" is a good example, sure I know the update was for beginers, but that doesn't mean that I couldn't complain about getting such a minor update.

Sure, minor updates build the suspense and lead to the amazing "Friday" update. But why should we have to like those suspense-building blogs? As for people not being interested in one player mode, isn't multiplayer the mode that makes Smash so fun? I'm pretty sure that even this Subspace Emissary will get old eventually, and the only thing that people will be focused on is V.s. mode and (possible) online play.
 

Star105

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I agree with you competely because some people seem to think that the way a game is good is how they play it and who thry want in......................... well ......................... welcome to real life (ironic since i agree with alot of those but i am necessarily pessimistic)

some people seem to lose track and think that the game will be this way because some people they encounter think the same way but they complain about filler updates....... and im not talking about everyone mind but some people who talk................. well on alot of forums. i really don't mind people voicing their disappointment but they should at least try to do something about it(like a petition or a letter with/without a petition) like the online petition at least they try to do something. im not saying that people arent trying but i hear complaints about things that arent likely to be changed...... oh well people will still complain about stuff and flame anybody else who disagrees so.......... wake up now.

sorry if i ranted too.......

Well, obviosly people are gonna be all doom and gloom about something new because they are afraid of change. When they realize that what they hold on to may change, they get defensive and pessimistic. For instance, wavedashing and tier lists.

One thing that confuses me is the entire PT controversy. We finally have a new character update and a VERY unique one at that and people still ***** about "I hate pokemon!" or "This is turning into a pokemon game!" Give it a break and be excited for once.
true alot of my friends dis like pokemon but they still play the game so alot of people should deal with it or don't play them............ or beat the crap out of them either one works
 

Takeshi245

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Well, obviosly people are gonna be all doom and gloom about something new because they are afraid of change. When they realize that what they hold on to may change, they get defensive and pessimistic. For instance, wavedashing and tier lists.

One thing that confuses me is the entire PT controversy. We finally have a new character update and a VERY unique one at that and people still ***** about "I hate pokemon!" or "This is turning into a pokemon game!" Give it a break and be excited for once.
That update killed my hype for Sonic. However, I didn't get all whiny about it. This character is unique to the franchise and also the people that thought that a pokemon trainer wouldn't be in it finally realize how wrong they are now. :laugh:
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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But, egrunts, is it neccesary to come onto the boards and mnake a thread complaining why you think that update sucked therefore Brawl is gonna suck? I see it alot.

For instance, the tether update today. I wasn't surprised to see that Zamus can tether (like Samus and Link). However, "Moves like that can be pretty thrilling. And it’s not exclusive to Zero Suit Samus... Other characters can do it, too!" seems to indidcate other characters (minus Link and Samus) have this ability. So quite possibly this can lead to characters who have that ability.
 

marthmaster04

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Ryoko, do you mind if I copy and paste this onto the Nintendo forums? Those kids are worse than the ones here. You get full credit of course. :laugh:
 

RyokoYaksa

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So you're saying it's ignorant to dislike an update? I'm pretty sure that everyone is thankful for getting daily blogs from Sakurai, so don't send out the "you should be thankful you're even getting updates!" stuff. Not everyone has to like each and every update, some of them I was disappointed about as well. The "You Must Recover!" is a good example, sure I know the update was for beginers, but that doesn't mean that I couldn't complain about getting such a minor update.

Sure, minor updates build the suspense and lead to the amazing "Friday" update. But why should we have to like those suspense-building blogs? As for people not being interested in one player mode, isn't multiplayer the mode that makes Smash so fun? I'm pretty sure that even this Subspace Emissary will get old eventually, and the only thing that people will be focused on is V.s. mode and (possible) online play.
There's a difference between genuinely disliking an update and "ARGH THESE UPDATES WILL MAKE THE GAME SUCK WHERE'S ALL MY CHARACTERS AND STAGES AND MODES" that I'm seeing more and more of. The discussion of the stickers update in particular really brought this on.

Also, I never said that multiplayer was not the main focus. The text of the Subspace Emissary update itself reinforces this. What I did say was that adding a single player mode that's actually good and fun would not automatically detract from the quality of multiplayer. Given the realities of game design and time alotted for individual projects, this is more than likely true. Without a good single player mode, the focus would be on getting the game out sooner, not on spending more time tweaking the multiplayer balance. If they feel multiplayer is done, it's done.

Btw, as an S-mod, I can sticky this if I feel like it. I'm not entirely sure if I want to do that, though.
 

Takalth

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Feb 1, 2006
Messages
597
So you're saying it's ignorant to dislike an update? I'm pretty sure that everyone is thankful for getting daily blogs from Sakurai, so don't send out the "you should be thankful you're even getting updates!" stuff. Not everyone has to like each and every update, some of them I was disappointed about as well. The "You Must Recover!" is a good example, sure I know the update was for beginers, but that doesn't mean that I couldn't complain about getting such a minor update.

Sure, minor updates build the suspense and lead to the amazing "Friday" update. But why should we have to like those suspense-building blogs? As for people not being interested in one player mode, isn't multiplayer the mode that makes Smash so fun? I'm pretty sure that even this Subspace Emissary will get old eventually, and the only thing that people will be focused on is V.s. mode and (possible) online play.
He isn't saying that you have to like every update. He's saying that you shouldn't complain about every update you don't like, or in the case of some people, talk as if some update indicates that the game won't be good. Updates I've actually cared about probably average less than 1 per week, but that doesn't make me pessimistic about the game or angry at Sakurai.

EDIT: looks like I was beaten to it.
 

etrain911

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I don't play competitvely so single player is fairly important to me. Thanks for this thread please sticky it as I'm sick of everyone thinking if there is one thing they will hate the whole game will fall apart. There is nothing you can do anyway you are not making the game so how will complaining help?
 

MR.WIGZ

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and n e way who cares stop complaining about people complaining about crappy updates

srry bout the double post and sont complaining it
 

Star105

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huh i noticed that alot of people started posting stuff like "i didn't complain about it even if i was disappointed about the update" mmmmmmmm........................... oh well it doesn't matter

it seems to me that th people who mostly complain about the updates/gameplay/ect...... seem to be the ones who take the game seriously and expect it to be the perfect game (or as close to it as possible) so when a update that seems usless crops up they start complaining about it.
*note* im being general since i don't know many people personally on these boards.

though alot of people are content about this game and how they are getting the info and say when a apparently useless update comes up they say (and this is speculation)"well tomorrow will be good and this adds/confirms somethings that add to the game"

now alot of people will flame this thread for its apparent one-sidedness point of view against why they see the reason to complain about a update (or they will ignore it altogether for fear of being flamed..... either one works) but it has incorperated (unlike simiar threads) both sides of the community.

so in conclusion people keep your complaints to yourself and hope for something better.
(im not saying don't post your opinion but don't keep on about it and sound like your complaining which people take differently).

sorry if i ranted

*note* there should be a thread where people can say bad things about the game and complain about things so the rest of the people don't have to listen to it..... just an idea......

like a bashing thread for people discontent with the game....

maybe it could work but it probably isn't a good idea
 

tirkaro

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I can agree with you on most points. I HATE the people who went "Z0mGZ, whY wuz teh pokeman trainer revealed!!!!!??? why wuzn't it rIDley or SOniC!!!???!!!11" during the pkmn trainer update, or the people b!tching about the subspace emmisary saying it will detract from the VS mode.

however, I still have every right to hate the "tether recovery" update. save those for the instruction books :mad:
 

Xaron Fisk

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December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now!!!!!!!!
 

Star105

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December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now. December 3. Serenity now!!!!!!!!
good try

people will still complain and argue about the game.

which is why i suggest that a b ashing thread be made so people can complain about the game without being flamed as much......... or annoying people as much.
 

M.K

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I think some of the...ahem...uneventful-er (?) updates that people seem to like are ones that feature screens of just announced characters like Ike, Yoshi, DK, etc. or ones that feature characters performing moves that make people question the game's mechanics.

ex. Ike's block in Palutena's Army update, Meta-Knight's semi-profile in the Standard Combos update, Peach's semi-confirmation in the Subspace Emmisary Update. Not saying those were bad updates, ESPECIALLY Subspace Emmisary (*harp*), but they could've been better.
 

Exorcist

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Nov 21, 2006
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I'll go as far to say that I hate some updates. Hate. Hate to death. I'm not wrong for this, but I know the game will still remain the most epic game of all time even if there are stickers and crap. In turn I know that this thread isn't aimed toward me.

People that are also worried about the game sucking have to voice themselves too. Though I find it a little repugnent when they say "It will suck cause o the pokemon" or "it will suck because of stickers". That's stupid. No one minor update or thing could make this game any worst than it will be. Pinpointing on things like that is meh, really. But people that are truly worried that the game is going another direction shouldn't be shunned or "SHADDAP NUB" ' ed either. It's a forum, people voice there opinions. If the opinions are fair, then so be it. I'd like to add that I'm not one of these people. I know the game will be epic, and if I could I'd make love to the game near a warm fire with some Barry White playing in the room and Jennifer Lopez's *** video-taping it all.

++I don't like it how it seems that some people are all like "ZOMG BEST THREAD EVA" just because a moderater made it, and if a normal person wrote it it'd be "lol nice rant", "omg another rant", or just "good post there".++ but I bet even the person who wrote this feels this way.

It's not bothering or anything. It's just a little....you know....
Don't get your lips stuck to his a5$.


All in all though. I hope your point sinks into alot of people's heads( i doubt it but I hope ). You're #1. reason ftw.
 

Florida

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I can agree with you on most points. I HATE the people who went "Z0mGZ, whY wuz teh pokeman trainer revealed!!!!!??? why wuzn't it rIDley or SOniC!!!???!!!11" during the pkmn trainer update, or the people b!tching about the subspace emmisary saying it will detract from the VS mode.

however, I still have every right to hate the "tether recovery" update. save those for the instruction books :mad:
I like it when other people quote each other, they have to transfer that quote into a completely ignorant message, adding the numbers and mis-capatalized letters. Why can't people say what they want about the update? Sure a lot of people rant a lot, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion, correct?
 

Exorcist

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Nov 21, 2006
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I like it when other people quote each other, they have to transfer that quote into a completely ignorant message, adding the numbers and mis-capatalized letters. Why can't people say what they want about the update? Sure a lot of people rant a lot, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion, correct?
Forums are all about opinions, but A. doing the "ZomG" thing is funny. B. Some people comments either ignore facts or are completely ignorant in themselves. C. overall its just funny it's not meant to poke fun at the people being quoted but just to be funny in itself.

D. this is my opinion
 

Kirye

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Nov 16, 2006
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It's funny how when someone posts an exact replica of this kind of thread, they basically get flamed, but when a GM does it he gets praised. XD

And sure sure, I agree, but aren't there enough of these threads? o.<

*I'll probably get flamed for this post~*
 

Exorcist

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Messages
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It's funny how when someone posts an exact replica of this kind of thread, they basically get flamed, but when a GM does it he gets praised. XD

And sure sure, I agree, but aren't there enough of these threads? o.<

*I'll probably get flamed for this post~*
Why? You have an absolute point there. Just bring up a couple of threads like this to see.
 

Florida

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Forums are all about opinions, but A. doing the "ZomG" thing is funny. B. Some people comments either ignore facts or are completely ignorant in themselves. C. overall its just funny it's not meant to poke fun at the people being quoted but just to be funny in itself.

D. this is my opinion
Right ;)
-whoops-, same avatar, my mistake lol.

It's funny how when someone posts an exact replica of this kind of thread, they basically get flamed, but when a GM does it he gets praised. XD

And sure sure, I agree, but aren't there enough of these threads? o.<

*I'll probably get flamed for this post~*
Exactly my thoughts. That's the general way it goes in most forums, people are too scared to disagree someone higher "rank" than they are. I wasn't surprised to see the first 5 replies be "I agree!" and "plz stickie!!".
 

Xanderous

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Jun 20, 2007
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Why? You have an absolute point there. Just bring up a couple of threads like this to see.
There was one with almost the exact same title just a few days ago and the guy got flamed to death and I think a mod closed it.

Of course I'm probably making all that up, but I seem to remember it. I don't like the mods here at all.
 
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