A message to Smash Tournament hosts

[Gimpyfish62]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKgTv_SzlQg

(click that)

These are some of my thoughts that I felt were important about tournament hosting, directed specifically to the Smash Community.

Keep in mind, I'm not super involved in the community. If anything is "wrong" please call it out in the comments (I'll more likely read them in the comments on the VIDEO ITSELF rather than here, but do both), and please just comment in general whether you agree with this or not or just general thoughts.


Thank you.

EDIT: I added an annotation that is important at one point in the video, please keep annotations on.

 

[Ripple]

I approve gimpy

 

[-Ran]

I approve. If players don't agree with what we're doing in the Unity Rule Set, then don't use it. We are trying to make everything as sensible as possible so that it is easier for players to utilize our rule set than to take the time and create their own. The benefit of using a precreated rule set is it allows the tournament organizer to 'default decisions' to an arbitrary force/entity. If a player is late to an event by ten minutes, you can say that they are banned because of the rule set. It has nothing to do with you as a person, but rather the rules as written that you didn't create.

Some players enjoy being able to take a step away from the responsibility of writing their own rules, and that's what I see the Unity Rule Set being capable of doing. By using it, your scene won't have justification to single you out as an individual for the choices that you're making, rather they will bring their dissatisfaction to the URC members. This is, at least, how I see it.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

Please link this to people if you find it worth watching. I want this to get a little bit of attention.

 

[PEEF!]

I personally like it.

 

[toobusytocare]

I approve. If players don't agree with what we're doing in the Unity Rule Set, then don't use it. We are trying to make everything as sensible as possible so that it is easier for players to utilize our rule set than to take the time and create their own. The benefit of using a precreated rule set is it allows the tournament organizer to 'default decisions' to an arbitrary force/entity. If a player is late to an event by ten minutes, you can say that they are banned because of the rule set. It has nothing to do with you as a person, but rather the rules as written that you didn't create.

Some players enjoy being able to take a step away from the responsibility of writing their own rules, and that's what I see the Unity Rule Set being capable of doing. By using it, your scene won't have justification to single you out as an individual for the choices that you're making, rather they will bring their dissatisfaction to the URC members. This is, at least, how I see it.

If this is how the URC feels then why do they discredit any tourney that doesn't follow their rules?

 

[-Ran]

That is how I feel; I cannot speak for the entire group. There are numerous things that are mandated by the staff of this website that members have no control of. I can only operate within the boundaries I have.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

Who exactly do you mean? I would like to contact these people.

Not a troll or joke post.

PM me if you don't want to just post a bunch of names in this thread.

 

[Strong Badam]

It is complete bull**** that tournaments cannot be stickied unless they use the Unity Ruleset. That is not how this community has been or should be ran.

 

[King Funk]

It is complete bull**** that tournaments cannot be stickied unless they use the Unity Ruleset. That is not how this community has been or should be ran.

Completely agreed. Tournament hosts should be allowed to host tournaments in any way they want to. As Gimpyfish said, if people don't like a TO's rules they can just not attend the event. Simple as that. That rule about the stickies and featured coverage on AiB is insanely stupid. What matters the most by far in a tournament is attendance, venue logistics, housing, etc., not the rules.

I know Alex Strife still got a sticky for Apex even though he doesn't use the URC rules but boooooy did it take a long time for the URC to get to that decision. And I wonder how many good and efficient looking tournaments are denied smashboards/AiB special coverage just because they don't ban MK or have one different stage.

I can understand some people want their country to have one and only ruleset.

The way the URC tries to force it unto the other TO's is just horrible. They're attempting to take away one of the most important liberties in the smash community.

Spoiler

Just to ban MK.

 

[Jolteon]

It is complete bull**** that tournaments cannot be stickied unless they use the Unity Ruleset. That is not how this community has been or should be ran.

Agreed. It is an abuse of power.

 

[Strife]

It is complete bull**** that tournaments cannot be stickied unless they use the Unity Ruleset. That is not how this community has been or should be ran.

Yeah it is complete and total bull****, and I am amazed how the SWF has just accepted it. I'd figure the boards would be blowing up with threads about how ****ed up all this is.

 

[Destiny Warrior]

Banned (62 points) -> lol at this

I'm neutral on the decisions the URC has made by itself, but I agree with his fundamental message that "tournament hosts need backbone". Don't concern yourself too much about the URC rulset for the time being. This emphasis ons tickies etc. will have players looking for rulesets different from the current URC probably looking through the forum more, so go for it and host with a different ruleset if you like. Just gauge the response. If it indeed is good, and there are quite a few such tourneys(not necessarily from the same host), the community etc. *will* start to sit up and follow them.

Just try once.

 

[Dr_Strangelove]

If the people who made this ruleset were confident in its validity then they would let people CHOOSE to use it based on its merit. You shouldn't have to nazi it in.

 

[Darkurai]

It's fascinating. Isn't pushing the Unity Ruleset hard essentially telling the people the "correct" way to play?

You know, the "tourneyfag" belief we were trying to fight for years?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I definitely approve of this video. Good stuff, Gimpy.

 

[Hax]

good stuff dude. i've personally asked certain TO's to remove Brinstar/RC from their rulesets, only to have them tell me "i can't." *facepalm*

for those who don't know, seemingly both games' rulesets (certainly Melee's) are established by people who know nothing about this game. i didn't even bother re-applying to the MBR after the leaders decided to start the member list anew; it's a complete joke

an even bigger concern regarding TOs' backbones, however, is banning certain people from attending. sometimes, i really wonder if certain TO's actually seek to better the melee community, or if they're only out for the money. not gonna name any names, but i can think of multiple TO's that have abstained from banning people that clearly don't deserve to go to tournaments just because they don't want there to be beef. these kinds of people aren't qualified to run tournaments imo

 

[King Funk]

good stuff dude. i've personally asked certain TO's to remove Brinstar/RC from their rulesets, only to have them tell me "i can't." *facepalm*

for those who don't know, seemingly both games' rulesets (certainly Melee's) are established by people who know nothing about this game. i didn't even bother re-applying to the MBR after the leaders decided to start the member list anew; it's a complete joke

an even bigger concern regarding TOs' backbones, however, is banning certain people from attending. sometimes, i really wonder if certain TO's actually seek to better the melee community, or if they're only out for the money. not gonna name any names, but i can think of multiple TO's that have abstained from banning people that clearly don't deserve to go to tournaments just because they don't want there to be beef. these kinds of people aren't qualified to run tournaments imo

Melee or Brawl?

Spoiler

(probably a stupid question)

You're kinda making it too obvious about the "people not deserving to go to tournaments", especially when it was discussed in another thread a few days ago. =p I do agree with you there though.

 

[Hax]

ahah, plank isn't the only person i'm talking about.

i can confirm that the MBR is a joke. based on MikeHaze's video in which he strips the Brawl community leaders of their credibility, the BBR doesn't sound much better

 

[Cactuar]

The old MBR was a lesson in long term trolling.

New MBR recommended ruleset will be posted tomorrow.

Say I don't know anything about this game again, and I might put some stuff in there to specifically **** you over.

**

 

[King Funk]

ahah, plank isn't the only person i'm talking about.

i can confirm that the MBR is a joke. based on MikeHaze's video in which he strips the Brawl community leaders of their credibility, the BBR doesn't sound much better

MikeHaze makes more fun of the URC rather than the BBR. In fact he praises the BBR (a bit too much for my taste) when the BBR has in fact also a lot of random not very knowledgeable people in it. Less than the URC but still...

 

[Hax]

i figured the two were related; guess not. in general, the smash community tends to be way too lenient when it comes to appointing people to high positions. i highly doubt the BBR is any different.

the community as a whole needs to learn to put its foot down in certain situations

 

[Plairnkk]

ahah, plank isn't the only person i'm talking about.

i can confirm that the MBR is a joke. based on MikeHaze's video in which he strips the Brawl community leaders of their credibility, the BBR doesn't sound much better

your posts have made me lol since pound. It is interesting to watch about 4-5 people (including you) who are the most ignorant to the entire situation continue to be the most outspoken.


oh and nobody "appointed" me to my position, nor does this community really ever "appoint" anyone to anything. There really isnt much benefit for people to hold large tournaments for smash other than for the love of the game and wanting to make people happy, you should just be lucky people are willing to hold tournaments for your entitled *** as a whole ROFL. I held successful tournaments for 5 years, you seem to forget that.

It is the right of these TOs to allow whoever they want at a tournament. There is no "greater smash power" or anything of the sort. Just because you feel a certain way doesn't mean everyone does, maybe when you grow up you'll figure that out

 

[Hax]

^what I said about people being appointed to high positions didn't have to do with you; it had to do with certain people in the MBR/certain mods who don't deserve the power they hold

most of us, including me, play primarily for the love of the game; money is second most important to us. Pound 5 certainly satisfied the first reason I play; does this justify it not satisfying the second? absolutely not.

I don't consider myself lucky that people are willing to hold tournaments for my "entitled ***" that falsely state that there will be payouts, regardless of whether I have a good time at them. by no stretch of the imagination are you not a scumbag for the scandal you're responsible for, so just stop posting. any TO who doesn't blacklist you from their tournaments is doing the community a serious disservice.

actually, my fault; the Pound 5 thread never stated that there would be payouts to begin with.

 

[Bones0]

Regardless of your stance on the Pound 5 payouts, I fail to see how banning Plank from tournaments helps anything. If it was some money-making scheme where he ripped everyone off, then it would make plenty of sense to ostracize him from the community, but all he did was **** up the financial part of ONE tournament (albeit a large one). If you agree that it was a complete accident, then in what way is barring attendance of someone who screwed up hosting a tournament improving the community? He isn't hosting any more events, so there is no risk of him losing prize money again. At the most, he should just be banned from creating tournament listings threads, but even that's dumb because everyone realizes it was a one-time mistake. It isn't like Plank is some rogue TO who doesn't afraid of recklessly using prize money.

 

[Hax]

banning him is necessary because he is still expected to pay back the $10,000 he owes, regardless of whether or not he made a mistake. I recall people trying to get DJ Nintendo/PB&J banned for petty amounts of debt compared to what Plank owes. regardless of what he's done for the community in the past, the Pound 5 scandal more than negates any of that.

 

[JTsm]

I approve 100% ^^

 

[Life]

What's the status on the P5 debt anyway? j/w

 

[Linguini]

I know plank well enough that I am sure he wouldn't **** someone over on purpose. But the fact of the matter, regardless of the morality of his actions, is that he didn't pay out to the winners of the tournament. This means certain players(like armada) spent thousands of dollars in travel fees to attend a tournament in which they were realistically expecting to make a large sum of money back.

Money is money, and planks actions lured smashers(who are mad poor) to a tournament based in a hotel; some of these smashers suffering a lot of financial stress to make it out there AND pay for the hotel.

That is pretty much unacceptable and imo and I agree that he should be putting all his focus into paying back the top placers. I wouldn't say he should be banned from tournaments, but he certainly shouldn't be attending them if no effort is being made to reimburse the payouts.

 

[EPsilon933]

Wasn't the deal between Plank and the hotel that the tournament would bring in a lot of customers and make money for the hotel, but then not enough Smashers reserved enough rooms. They wanted/needed the money they were expecting, so...

 

[AlphaZealot]

You don't want rules for stickys? Should we just start sticking every 20 person tournament thread then?

Rules for stickys have been around a lot longer than the URC.

an even bigger concern regarding TOs' backbones, however, is banning certain people from attending. sometimes, i really wonder if certain TO's actually seek to better the melee community, or if they're only out for the money. not gonna name any names, but i can think of multiple TO's that have abstained from banning people that clearly don't deserve to go to tournaments just because they don't want there to be beef. these kinds of people aren't qualified to run tournaments imo

Here is a post telling tournament hosts what to do.

In a thread saying tournaments hosts shouldn't be told what to do.

 

[Ussi]

While it hasn't really come up yet (besides Apex but that got stickied for melee later on)


The sticky rule shouldn't just be limited to URC tourneys only, if someone's tourney falls under the criteria to have their tourney stickied but aren't using the Unity ruleset should they really not be stickied?

URC will probably remain the majority, but at least people won't call you tyrants. People shouldn't feel pressured to follow a standard, just embrace it on their own.

 

[Bones0]

banning him is necessary because he is still expected to pay back the $10,000 he owes, regardless of whether or not he made a mistake. I recall people trying to get DJ Nintendo/PB&J banned for petty amounts of debt compared to what Plank owes. regardless of what he's done for the community in the past, the Pound 5 scandal more than negates any of that.

Well if you still expect him to pay back an insanely large debt that the community is at least partly responsible for, then you're really just not being reasonable. People try to get DJ and PB&J banned because they are able, but not willing, to pay back their debts. Plank is willing, but not able to pay back his debts, and he is no longer a threat for other players to lose their money. Whereas DJ and PB&J have shown a pattern of behavior where they consistently borrow money and don't pay it back, and allowing them to attend tournaments would allow this behavior to continue.

 

[Sinji]

Im very late on this but great video Gimpyfish

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

You don't want rules for stickys? Should we just start sticking every 20 person tournament thread then?

There's nothing wrong with having rules for stickies, but it's not ok to not stick a tournament because it's not following the Unity ruleset.

 

[xDD-Master]

Good video, good message, I love you

Unity Ruleset "Power" is stupid.
Recommendations or even better, a ruleset that (nearly) everyone can agree on, both options would be better.
Of course, "unity" would be great, but it just doesnt work (atm, for melee it would work I think).
But atm, that doesnt seem very possible, at least as far as the MK topic goes...
So having multiple Options, and just giving a recommendation, is the best and only thing you (or in this case: The URC) should do.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

banning him is necessary because he is still expected to pay back the $10,000 he owes, regardless of whether or not he made a mistake.

I genuinely thought this post was about metaknight at first LOL!!

 

[Strife]

Well if you still expect him to pay back an insanely large debt that the community is at least partly responsible for, then you're really just not being reasonable. People try to get DJ and PB&J banned because they are able, but not willing, to pay back their debts. Plank is willing, but not able to pay back his debts, and he is no longer a threat for other players to lose their money. Whereas DJ and PB&J have shown a pattern of behavior where they consistently borrow money and don't pay it back, and allowing them to attend tournaments would allow this behavior to continue.

I don't think he is partially responsible for anything, he is responsible for EVERYTHING!

He organized a tournament, promised payouts and didn't pay out anyone. People lost a lot of money going to this event, and a lot of time training for it because they were expected returns from their investments. Plank denied them that. For that fact alone he should be shunned from the community until he pays back what he owes.

People are gonna keep stealing money from the community until someone makes an example out of them. Honestly someone from the community should have sued him, even if they didn't win the case it'd; probably scare the **** about anyone who wants to steal from the community again. It's people like you who makes this **** easier for TOs.

 

[PEEF!]

Honestly someone from the community should have sued him

LOL file a class-action lawsuit on behalf of all of "all dem smash bruthas" out there.

 

[Strife]

LOL file a class-action lawsuit on behalf of all of "all dem smash bruthas" out there.

I can't tell if you're joking or just not smart. If would be someone like Dr PeePee or Ally who were owed over 1000$ from this event. It's a legitimate cases. I've seen cases on Judge Mathis won with a lot less.

You don't want rules for stickys? Should we just start sticking every 20 person tournament thread then?

Rules for stickys have been around a lot longer than the URC.

How about every 80 or 100 person tournament? Or how about any tournament that would be stickyed if it had followed the URC rule set. What you are doing is a disgusting abuse of power, don't pretend that you aren't bullying the entire community to follow your rule-set.