A SoNiC GuIdE -5/07/09 - Some interesting frame data

[Greenstreet]

This needs to be on the first page. There are some new guys who might need it.

Bump de wump
Also does this guide show how to instahog with sonic?

 

[darkNES386]

This needs to be on the first page. There are some new guys who might need it.

Bump de wump
Also does this guide show how to instahog with sonic?

You mean... roll down to back to fast fall-grab?

 

[memphischains]

this needs more

EDIT

to elaborate - the different styles of sonics.
ie - basic/simple "3000" style
its pros/cons

SD/SC *****
campy
AT *****

etc. maybe a thread for the different styles would be made cause i know we love to make threads for everything here in the sonic forums

 

[infomon]

I don't think "playstyles" is formal or accepted enough to warrant discussion. I'd prefer this guide to stick to the facts about Sonic; moveset and move properties, etc. Just my opinion. We're welcome to have other threads to discuss the more variable and controversial aspects of maining Sonic.

 

[CaliburChamp]

You need a certain play style to win with Sonic. Some people would call it a hit and run tactic. Use Sonic's speed to start the damage and/or combo, and always space yourself with Sonic's run speed. Prepare to run away from alot of incoming attacks and punish missed attacks and openings.

 

[Greenstreet]

You mean... roll down to back to fast fall-grab?

umm u can do it by turning tap jump off and just running with the control stick diagonally down then as soon *** you fall off the edge push it diagonal up in the opposite direction. there is a vid on u-tube of it i am sure..

 

[Chis]

Sonic Orochi's Light speed and LuCKY tutorial thingy shows the instant edge grab thing.

 

[Greenstreet]

Ok thanks.

Also I am not sure whether it's already been stated in a previous thread or just been thrown away candidly. But I've been messing around with Sonics glide toss (with Diddy Bananas) and found that a Super Roll Glide Toss goes about 1/2 FD at best. Which i think is cool. Its probably already been discovered and its not really that crucial, so i didnt make a thread for it. But yer, against Diddy's doing a Super Glide over a normal one can really shake up how far you can approach from and still combo from the slip.

EDIT: seems to be only a foot further than the normal glide toss. o well.

 

[Mith_]

Finally a sonic guide. Well put together I like it.

 

[SonicX580]

How come sonic's expression changes when he says " You're to slow".

 

[Chis]

Because I get pissed when people keep bumping old threads for no good reason.

 

[infomon]

LOL

Calm down Chis, we don't need another memphis

 

[Chis]

I know :D

But I'm starting to think we should make a questions and answer thread... :/

 

[Camalange]

I know :D

But I'm starting to think we should make a questions and answer thread... :/

I was thinking the same thing, but then I realized noobs would ignore it anyway and still post where ever they want.

 

[infomon]

Some minor notes:
1. You should put that Dsmash's three hits do 12%, 9%, 6%.
2. You might want to include how much damage the smashes do when fully-charged: 20% for Fsmash and Usmash, 17% for Dsmash. I know there's just a formula, but it's good to know IMO.
3. Fsmash Fair does as much as 14%, I think we should include that, it's our most damaging aerial ftw!

... yeah, this was mostly to bump the awesome guide lol.

 

[aeghrur]

Fsmash infzy? You mean fair? lol. Well, I wouldn't be surprised if sonic can smash in the air, he is steak tier after all.

 

[infomon]

lol oops, thanks.... fixed

 

[Tenki]

Fsmash does 14 anyway.

When using F-air, you're usually having to start it early so you have your hitbox out (first few hits miss) or DI/etc makes the ending hits miss.

N-air ftw

 

[darkNES386]

Updated the smash percents... any other comments?

 

[da K.I.D.]

the only thing i can think to say is that down air auto cancels at spring height, but conversely on all the neutral stages, sonic is able to SH off the ledge and down air and still jump and spring before he dies

 

[darkNES386]

Any comments on section 6 (Making him competative) are welcome. I did some updates to it and I'm curious to hear what your opinions all are. Anything that seems well spoken will gladly be quoted and added. I in no way believe I am enlightened when it comes to Sonic. I'm just speaking from personal experience.

 

[aeghrur]

Lol, link my thread under section six? Um, It might help because it does cover bad habits and stuff. =/ Also, include the need for GOOD SPACING on there, lol.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200888

 

[Fear The Force]

You should add in the ATs regularly used in the tournament scene the instant edgehog.

 

[aeghrur]

That's not really used with sonic much due to the freaking strict timing of it. >_<

 

[Tenki]

That's not really used with sonic much due to the freaking strict timing of it. >_<

what are you talking about, I use it all the time O_O;

Run, then (be mentally prepared to do it as you reach the edge, to get rid of reaction lag as much as possible) fastfall+press towards the stage.

If I can do it online, you can do it offline >___>

That move feels so commonplace that almost noone mentions it, but I guess it is worth adding to a guide lol.

 

[aeghrur]

Oh really? I never see it being used in the videos so I thought it would be due to the timing of it. =/
I can get the timing down, more or less, lol, but meh. I'm not 100%

 

[thecatinthehat]

yeah I always use it was well.

It just feels so satisfying when you do it.

 

[Tenki]

Oh really? I never see it being used in the videos so I thought it would be due to the timing of it. =/
I can get the timing down, more or less, lol, but meh. I'm not 100%

You can't judge everyone based on videos alone lol.

: P

For example, Xyro's been talking about how 3000 has been using AT's and such, but never felt the need to use them. Of course, the only vids we had didn't have that, so everyone's like "lolsimplicity!!11"

 

[Fear The Force]

That's not really used with sonic much due to the freaking strict timing of it. >_<

watch the videos that Tenki posted when RATS played all those people with sonic. He used it several times. Being able to ledgehog another person is definitely worth mentioning iMo.

 

[aeghrur]

I conceded the point.

 

[darkNES386]

Lol, link my thread under section six? Um, It might help because it does cover bad habits and stuff. =/ Also, include the need for GOOD SPACING on there, lol.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200888

I quoted your spacing/stop the specials advice.

You should add in the ATs regularly used in the tournament scene the instant edgehog.

Yeah... I overlooked this as an "AT", but it does require some technical skill so I'll put it in.


-------

I've been going through the moves again, neutrals/dash/tilts so far. Any comments are welcome. I'm including DJ's frame data with his permission: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196148

Even if it's not perfectly accurate it still gives us an idea of the "ranking" of each attack in it's set... aka the fair is slightly faster than the uair.

 

[Browny]

4:30
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ICEvJ66Upvs

lolwut? uair spiked? :O

 

[Chis]

When was this stickied?

 

[Camalange]

When was this stickied?

Today I guess. I like it that way.

It should combine with Toes thread though.

 

[~TBS~]

huh? what is that supposed to mean Cam?? toes???
and at dj, that was a harsh ganon.

 

[Camalange]

Toes? Twinkle Toes?

Duh.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Oh really? I never see it being used in the videos so I thought it would be due to the timing of it. =/
I can get the timing down, more or less, lol, but meh. I'm not 100%

because of the timing, its actually the only one i can use effectively.

also you should add infzy's recovery method video to the front page

 

[Browny]

4:30
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ICEvJ66Upvs

lolwut? uair spiked? :O

anyone...?

 

[thecatinthehat]

I remember someone mentioning an u-air spike back in march/april.

This is the first time I've ever seen it though.

 

[Browny]

i know ive been going for uair spikes off stage recently and my brothers always asking why the hell im doing it instead of b-air, i know ive seen it once before but that was the only time i got footage of it. i think the important thing to determine is whether the second hit would have hit him if the ground wasnt there to stop the spike. obviously the spike was because the 1st hit dragged ganon into the 2nd hit as sonic touched the ground but he definitely hit the floor well before the second hit came out :/

maybe its got to do with fast fallers lol