Advancing Peach's Metagame

[z00ted]

Ooo ya Nicole, I've been practicing that stuff specifically too!

Especially the reading roll / float stuff...

Like right here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOXz7GIl36k#t=2m5s

I float right past his shield and im waiting for a roll or him to just drop it.... but I messed up my timing

 

[Pikaville]

Ill/Nicole your Peach's are actually pretty cool to see.

You make Brawl tolerable to watch.

Believe me that is a huge compliment coming from me hahaha.

 

[z00ted]

Thank a lot!

 

[Nicole]

ya thanks man, brawl peach has the sickkkeeessttt combos

 

[z00ted]

Added in Lancestern's take on the Down-throw.

 

[Eddie G]

ya thanks man, brawl peach has the sickkkeeessttt combos

Correction: Marvel's Doctor Doom has the sickest combos.

I've got some tactful stuff I've been working on to share with you all soon, once I get a working computer in a couple of weeks that is. Should be a piece of cake for Ill and Nicole (with her increase in tech skill) to adopt.

 

[z00ted]

looking forward to learning more stuff

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Umm.. okay I'll be honest I didn't read the whole thread so I'm sorry if I bring anything up that has been previously discussed.

Some things I like to do with Peach is zair dropping turnip fair pressure. I noticed that even if I'm not out for the hit.. putting that fair out there to regrab the dropped turnip seems to add some type of distance between myself and the opponent... and they often back down from an approach... you then have multiple options such as turnip glides... start your own pressure etc. You can also do this variation with bair if your back is to the opponent. If you are in close range... often a zair drop turnip will confuse them as sometimes they think you would throw it... so have fun with how you drop turnips.

Windstep OOS bairs are also useful and pretty easy to do even when used without the OOS... or just useful as a gtfo move if someone is rushing towards you... mind you bair also beats dash attacks lol. I also dashstep fair for added momentum. For those who don't know.. dash step is like windstepping but with dash momentum on Peachs float... combine with fair as fair can be cancelled immediately into another one... so if you have some ground to make up... turnip glide - dashtep fair... if they spot dodge the turnip the fair will connect. It's also good for punishing a forward roll. Don't forget the dashstep fair can be cancelled into ANYTHING i'm not kidding when I say this. You can jab, tilt, smash, jump, cancel into another air move, shield, dodge, use her specials and even taunt after it.

I think Dtilt is very underrated... as we know peach gets slight backwards momentum upon using dtilt - w/e. I dont think people knows this applies to her putting up a shield.. and her spot dodge.. as well as her float but we already can manipulate that ourselves. So dtilt - shield with backwards momentum can be pretty safe. My favorite thing to do is dtilt - slap(jab) with backward momentum.. the range on slap is quite good.. and can set up slap - grab on someone who tried to punish the dtilt. Also... to effectively get the timing right to get the FULL backwards momentum (which arguably makes her spot dodge travel further than her roll dodge) try to spot dodge as she pulls her hand back.. its a very easy timing once you get it right... dont forget this applies to her shield but only when you hold the shield long enough.. immediately shield - drop will cut the momentum off.

Uair... another move that I don't see Peach use often enough... the move has an amazing disjoint which if needed to show I have photo proof lol. The move can be used in her combos and great for pressure on plats such as windstep uair under bf plat - utilt if they decided to roll. Decided to add photo for those who want to see it as an example. http://s983.photobucket.com/albums/ae320/Peachy-Desu/?action=view&current=al_110809_1521binout.jpg I find this disjoint hits when Peach drops her float upon the same time initiating uair. I have also found this particular disjoint to KO at a relatively lower % 130-140ish rather than using uair normally.

I've read some dthrow talk.. best method to follow up dthrow is utilt which is a legit combo on everyone but a few characters such as Mario/D3/MK/Diddy. Dthrow - utilt also works on marth (1 throw) so he can't escape with dolphin slash. Other characters I advise 2-3 dthrows and for fastfallers 4-5 before the utilt. Though caution.. once MK is outside of Dthrow CG (0-13%) he can DI above her and punish her dthrow with Dair... Holynightmare has done this to me quite a few times lol.
Though I am unsure at the % where he starts to fly too high for the punish... but right after 13% this can happen.

That's some things I thought of.. and use in my game haha. Hope some of this helps!

 

[williamwsharp]

Sup guys dont know if you remember me but oh well. Let me state an opinion.

Peach vs Pikachu.. Hmmmm i dont find this a hard MU at all, we might have the slightest of advantage, i would suggest more of an Air/camp/space game, we have more reach and good camp, theres really no need to face the cute rat face to face, float combos, turnip pressure, Nair his recovery, etc.

If you tried to battle him face to face i believe Pikachu is more a threat, Dsmash, Fair, Usmash and grabs can put us in annoying situations. I tend to take pikachus off stage or high in the air, to punish landing.

But its been long since ive fought a pikachu soooo.... i could be wrong?

 

[Peachy-Desu]

I strongly think we have the upper hand in a close combat situation... dsmash is hardly a problem with the correct bait... and dair - w/e on his lag. We have the slap to push him away... and windstep bairs that ruin everything but his fair. We can camp him to bait him to QAC to us... from there with proper reading we could nair/fsmash lol

 

[williamwsharp]

Sure i guess pika is pretty screwed.

The only thing i really worry about is not getting hit by any of his smashes when in high %

 

[DaBeast2010]

props to silly kyle! i watched the video between him and bloodhawk that illmatic posted. really like the way he plays his peach, hopefully i can get there one day.... if i were to post a video of my peach in action, could you guys give me some tips??

 

[Silly Kyle]

oh gosh, that was such an old video lol xD

my Peach is a lot better now

 

[z00ted]

Z-dropping turnips over the edge and just floating above them is SUPER fun to do and it's great for pressuring.

If you know your opponent has a bad habit of doing get up attacks, you can combo a move off of the hit turnip for double damage. Or you can use the turnip to bait them into doing a jump getup and just u-air them or whatever.

EDIT: Oh and also, SUPER important.

Nordal has recently shown me that we can Toad Ike's super long range on his Aether (Up-b recovery move) when he's being greedy and trying to get extra damage for us being on the ledge. If the Ike has already jumped, the Toad sends Ike far enough away to KILL him. Very good thing to keep in mind.

Also, slap -> jab is a true combo against Olimar for some odd reason.

All of this has been edited into the thread, we need a bit of activity.
Share your tricks!

_____________________________________


Extra Edit: Vinnie invented a really cool 0 -> death chain grab against heavies and created a video on it a while back. We talked about it for a little bit and tweaked some stuff, but decided not to reveal it to the public - because one of us wanted to be the first to do it in tournament or something. Well, it looks like I haven't done it yet (I've actually gotten the grab once, but I fraked up), so I'm going to leave it up to one of you guys to pull it off. It's pretty coincidental, but very practical and easy to pull of with a bit of practice.

It works like this: grab fast falling character (Falco, Fox, Wolf, DDD, etc.) on the edge of a stage with a walkoff (Delfino, Castle Siege, Halberd) then proceed to chain grab them off stage. You need to be on the far side of whatever side you are on. For example, if you are on the far left you need to be closer to the horizontal blastzone than your opponent is. Then you just have to triple d-throw, and f-throw off. You may be able to squeeze in a few more or a bit less d-throws depending on the weight of the character.. but it is guaranteed on some!

Vinnie's video performing the trick is shown here.

Oh, and we also figured out some really weird turnip pulling mechanic when near the ledge similar to the one already found. Except on this one all you can cancel the lag while still staying on stage or on platform. This is shown here.

So yeah, Peach is def a gangsta thug hood rat ***** now!

 

[Sarix]

Nordal has recently shown me that we can Toad Ike's super long range on his Aether (Up-b recovery move) when he's being greedy and trying to get extra damage for us being on the ledge. If the Ike has already jumped, the Toad sends Ike far enough away to KILL him. Very good thing to keep in mind.

I love using Toad to catch unwary Ike's off guard when they try to Aether the ledge, it's such a rewarding feeling, especially when it does KO him. I might just not be playing very experienced Ikes but I also find Toad a very handy tool for getting back to the ledge against him with proper prediction on his attacks to give a surprise and get some handy spacing.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Unfortunately The dthrow chain grab does NOT work on Heavies.. but rather Fastfallers. D3/snake/bowser can ALL DI/SDI out of the dthrow on the 3rd throw (or once they reach 13%) The only characters that still get caught in it are fast fallers... Falco/Fox/Sheik/Falcon/Wolf who can get caught in it for up to 32-35%ish... depends on your buffering skills otherwise they get out at 24%. While that is horribly conditional.. even worse so because Delfino and Siege are arguably bad for Peach it's something good to keep in mind.

As for the turnip pulling.. I can't see it as truly practical.. if they only way to cancel the lag is via immediately throwing the turnip.. it's not useful. Turnips are meant to be used more so defensively setting up baits. If you space your game correctly.. you shouldn't really have to worry about getting hit via turnip pull or worry about the lag on her pulling the turnip. Simply Windstep fair - turnip pull.. there won't be any lag upon the fair and creates room to get the turnip. Also Turnip Gliding away from the opponent while throwing the turnip towards them to pulling another turnip is also a very safe option.

I have never found Ike a really bad threat... it is very easy to bait all his air game.. just simply dash - ps his fair and grab him or even windstep accordingly. If he nairs.. simply don't approach and run away to camp him some more however depending on spacing we can ps the nair and punish it before he jabs via oos nair/grab. Ike if he grabs a turnip helps us out a lot.. remember when he has one we can pressure his shield all we want. If he throws it at us... play catch with him and punish him for doing so. Treat Ike like a slow Marth... if you know the Marth MU Ike should be super easy.
Oh... I've also noticed you can ledge hog Ike VERY easily... however the timing is a tad rough if Ike stalls a bit. Once you see ike's start up on his recovery.. that's when you grab the ledge! Count to 3 and on 3 get up... Ike will SD. Grabbing the ledge before Ike uses the start up on his recovery will allow him to hit you.. note this works even at 0% having 100%+ for a slow get up makes this even easier. So a great way to screw Ike over.. is to float RIGHT at the ledge.. wait for the start up and release float to grab it. If he lands onstage simply hit/throw him back off.

 

[z00ted]

thanks for clearing that up

 

[Dark.Pch]

While that is horribly conditional.. even worse so because Delfino and Siege are arguably bad for Peach it's something good to keep in mind.

Delfino ain't so hawt cause of her ledge options. But CS is a good stage for her against campy characters. I have timed out Lucario and Toonlink there. Since the first part of the stage is small, it is not hard to keep the pressure on the enemy. And will have a hard time camping/running away. Then once you get that lead and it goes to the second part of the stage, just run away and play D. Stay on the top. Stage 3 is a lil netural. it can go ether way. Its not really bad for you though. Then just repeat when you go back to the first part.

I use this stage against space animals and characters that fall hard under peach pressure game. ZSS being one of them. Another thing is, its easy to stay away from your opponent at the second part of the stage if the statues are destroyed. This will make it hard for them to reach you since there is no platforms to help reach you.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Delfino ain't so hawt cause of her ledge options. But CS is a good stage for her against campy characters. I have timed out Lucario and Toonlink there. Since the first part of the stage is small, it is not hard to keep the pressure on the enemy. And will have a hard time camping/running away. Then once you get that lead and it goes to the second part of the stage, just run away and play D. Stay on the top. Stage 3 is a lil netural. it can go ether way. Its not really bad for you though. Then just repeat when you go back to the first part.

I use this stage against space animals and characters that fall hard under peach pressure game. ZSS being one of them. Another thing is, its easy to stay away from your opponent at the second part of the stage if the statues are destroyed. This will make it hard for them to reach you since there is no platforms to help reach you.

The biggest issue with transformation 3 is the stupidly far blast zones. While they could be argued to being good for Peach as she will not die early.. but it also goes to say Peach cannot KO early.. if much at all. If the opponent has any sense of DI and knows their characters momentum cancels.. this is a HORRIBLE place for Peach. It's bad enough she has trouble koing on FD if they know how to DI.. but this transformation makes her abysmal KO power worse. Also we can factor in that like lylat the stage WILL disrupt her ability to windstep thus taking away a big portion of punishing. The fact she has trouble landing any move that Star Kos makes Peach vulnerable to that of Lucarios fsmash with aura boost will send her flying to the heavens lol and TLs spammable usmash albeit it weak Imo not to mention Zss ******** uair. There's honestly other stages you can take campers... CS Imho is not one of them.

 

[Dark.Pch]

When the stage transforms, i stay at the center of it and switch my comback there for a few seconds to avoid any dumb ****. I do the same on nofair when it is about to change. Just don't be reckless. And don't always wanna go in with fairs and all that. If you force it, of course all this stuff is gonna happen. if you see a Toonlink just spamming upsmashes to kill, bait him and don't move into the ****. limit being in the air where it will hit you easy. You can avoid all of this if you just take it easy. Alot of people don't have much patients using Peach, those I hear things as you said here. people need to be more obvservant.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

When the stage transforms, i stay at the center of it and switch my comback there for a few seconds to avoid any dumb ****. I do the same on nofair when it is about to change. Just don't be reckless. And don't always wanna go in with fairs and all that. If you force it, of course all this stuff is gonna happen. if you see a Toonlink just spamming upsmashes to kill, bait him and don't move into the ****. limit being in the air where it will hit you easy. You can avoid all of this if you just take it easy. Alot of people don't have much patients using Peach, those I hear things as you said here. people need to be more obvservant.

Lol.. I was speaking on terms of a defensive stand point since I play very defensively. A TL spamming usmash does not mean.. a direct link of Usmashes in a row... guess I should have been more clear. It's innevitable that his best option of koing Peach is usmash since we can SDI his Fsmash up then Float above his second strike of it. Fair is really slow.. and it's true his bair will ko at 180. XD TL's and other camp characters can usually force Peach's approach however this is not always the case. If you intend on racking any damage at all during the third transformation.. you will at some point have to approach.. and losing a windstep is a BIG setback... as you are forced to actually leave the ground to punish someone. The middle of the stage does effect her float iirc.

Fair is often Peach's best tool in terms of attacking or punishing... since as we should all know by now Dair is not up to snuff anymore. Windstepping allows Peach to utilise all her air attacks on the ground.. not only that but cancel them all with no lag upon her "landing" (dropping the float) so fair actually becomes a very safe move in terms of being able to punish or put pressure on. Now I'm not saying.. go all out and use fair 15 times in a row.. but it's great to punish rolls/spot dodges or create space. Bair is ideal of punishing as the hitbox comes out instant and if you cancel bair upon the hitbox you won't recieve lag on her landing and can follow up into a grab at lower%s. Dair can be used on the ground though not safe... uair is great for under plat pressure. Nair.. I find comes out slower than bair and it's best to save it for when you want to ko/hit them off at higher%s. If anything stages with curved ground or moving stages actually HURT Peach.. as they can to a minor extent disrupt or make windstepping a pain in the butt to do and then make it conditional. Thus forcing her into the air where she is her weakest.

With proper turnip usage + mix ups with windstepping and her air game... Peach becomes a force to be reckoned with.

Edit: Hmm just occured to me.. Windstepping here may be referred to as Float Cancelling where you guys are! However I treat them differently. lol

 

[Dark.Pch]

Lol.. I was speaking on terms of a defensive stand point since I play very defensively. A TL spamming usmash does not mean.. a direct link of Usmashes in a row... guess I should have been more clear. It's innevitable that his best option of koing Peach is usmash since we can SDI his Fsmash up then Float above his second strike of it. Fair is really slow.. and it's true his bair will ko at 180. XD TL's and other camp characters can usually force Peach's approach however this is not always the case. If you intend on racking any damage at all during the third transformation.. you will at some point have to approach.. and losing a windstep is a BIG setback... as you are forced to actually leave the ground to punish someone. The middle of the stage does effect her float iirc.

Ok, so if his best option to kill her is his upsmash, would it not be best to stay grounded when you are at Kill% That way you won't be left open or easy to hit with his upsmash? You really don't have to approach in the air to get to him. This has nothing to do with the stage at this point. it's a general fact.

if TL shoots thins at you when you have the lead in damage or stock, you can Nair his arrow and boomer. This is what I do to olimar when I have a lead. I force him to come to me this way. I have no need to approach this dude anymore. Nair>pikmin. The bomb is what you need to pay attention too. since it what really leads to alot of stuff. And it is not hard to avoid one.

The first Part of the stage as I said before, it can be hard for these characters to run away and camp since it is not that big. It's easier to keep the pressure on him. Good example is Peach Vs Fox in melee. While on YI he can kill Peach off the top early, I love to take fox there and other smart top melee Peach players cause Fox can have a hard time camping there. And if peach can keep up smart pressure and mix ups, fox is gonna be in for alot of hurt. Foxes camp Peach hard in the current meta game cause they can't handle her upclose. her combos and her dsmash end this dude. So he has to camp/ gets damage and force her to approach, then start his fox combos and get the kill.

Peach can rack up damage pretty quick with just one attack. You can even do more damage from the combo that is suppose to end with a mixup. So on the first part of the stage, if you do this, you are good. Also, lucarios hate when Peach has the lead. it becomes a serious problem from him if she gets it and plays all D. This is how I timed one out here. He only shoots one thing at you at a time. He can't send mutiple things at you like you can to him. Really if you turnip juggle.

The middle part of the first section peach can't really ground float. Same with part three somewhat (depends on where you are facing). So what I usually do is I go to those stages in training mode and I have practice how to float a lil more then average so I can use my air attacks on the ground while moving it. This is why I did not like lylat anymore. But now that I do this, lylat is my friend again.

Fair is often Peach's best tool in terms of attacking or punishing... since as we should all know by now Dair is not up to snuff anymore. Windstepping allows Peach to utilise all her air attacks on the ground.. not only that but cancel them all with no lag upon her "landing" (dropping the float) so fair actually becomes a very safe move in terms of being able to punish or put pressure on. Now I'm not saying.. go all out and use fair 15 times in a row.. but it's great to punish rolls/spot dodges or create space. Bair is ideal of punishing as the hitbox comes out instant and if you cancel bair upon the hitbox you won't recieve lag on her landing and can follow up into a grab at lower%s. Dair can be used on the ground though not safe... uair is great for under plat pressure. If anything stages with curved ground or moving stages actually HURT Peach.. as they can to a minor extent disrupt or make windstepping a pain in the butt to do and then make it conditional. Thus forcing her into the air where she is her weakest.

With proper turnip usage + mix ups with windstepping and her air game... Peach becomes a force to be reckoned with.

To abuse rolls and side steps, I usually use Dair. I don't like using her fair for that when I need that to kill people. So I dair in place or jump back to a dair. If I sense they will roll forward I do a dash attack.

I am not sure if by windstepping you mean the float hop thing that looks like a wavedash (I just call it a pesudo wavedash) I am not sure how that messes you up in slopes. it's the same thing as if you was wave dashing up on slopes in Konga jungle in melee. I never had a problem with it.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Ok, so if his best option to kill her is his upsmash, would it not be best to stay grounded when you are at Kill% That way you won't be left open or easy to hit with his upsmash? You really don't have to approach in the air to get to him. This has nothing to do with the stage at this point. it's a general fact.

if TL shoots thins at you when you have the lead in damage or stock, you can Nair his arrow and boomer. This is what I do to olimar when I have a lead. I force him to come to me this way. I have no need to approach this dude anymore. Nair>pikmin. The bomb is what you need to pay attention too. since it what really leads to alot of stuff. And it is not hard to avoid one.

The first Part of the stage as I said before, it can be hard for these characters to run away and camp since it is not that big. It's easier to keep the pressure on him. Good example is Peach Vs Fox in melee. While on YI he can kill Peach off the top early, I love to take fox there and other smart top melee Peach players cause Fox can have a hard time camping there. And if peach can keep up smart pressure and mix ups, fox is gonna be in for alot of hurt. Foxes camp Peach hard in the current meta game cause they can't handle her upclose. her combos and her dsmash end this dude. So he has to camp/ gets damage and force her to approach, then start his fox combos and get the kill.

Peach can rack up damage pretty quick with just one attack. You can even do more damage from the combo that is suppose to end with a mixup. So on the first part of the stage, if you do this, you are good. Also, lucarios hate when Peach has the lead. it becomes a serious problem from him if she gets it and plays all D. This is how I timed one out here. He only shoots one thing at you at a time. He can't send mutiple things at you like you can to him. Really if you turnip juggle.

The middle part of the first section peach can't really ground float. Same with part three somewhat (depends on where you are facing). So what I usually do is I go to those stages in training mode and I have practice how to float a lil more then average so I can use my air attacks on the ground while moving it. This is why I did not like lylat anymore. But now that I do this, lylat is my friend again.



To abuse rolls and side steps, I usually use Dair. I don't like using her fair for that when I need that to kill people. So I dair in place or jump back to a dair. If I sense they will roll forward I do a dash attack.

I am not sure if by windstepping you mean the float hop thing that looks like a wavedash (I just call it a pesudo wavedash) I am not sure how that messes you up in slopes. it's the same thing as if you was wave dashing up on slopes in Konga jungle in melee. I never had a problem with it.

Arrows and the boomer can also be nulled by bair... she can sour spot bair his bombs to make them go through her (careful not to cancel the float on them to make her hit it twice) or just catch them.. doesn't help for his zair which is not too hard to deal with. I know approaching in the air is not a direct way of getting to TL.. you can easily try to out camp him which is not hard. Though if the stage is messing up your spacing.. and not allowing you to utilise ground air attacks to punish him then yes... the stage is hindering Peach.

Fair is never great way to ko... in fact it has horrible KO power even when Fresh.. I have tested this.. and experienced Fresh fairs still being unable to ko at 160/170% due to DI from my opponents. Though that being said... peach's entire moveset attack power is ridiculously weak.. this is where camping comes in. While using Dair in the beginning to rack damage or set up at lower %s is fine.. since dair can lead into a 32-42% combo (depends on opponents SDI and character fall speed) dair becomes less useful as Peach racks on the damage.. in fact dair stops comboing into other things even on the fastfallers around 60-80% it doesn't knock the opponent offstage can be problematic depending on the character... this is where fair/bair comes in. Though.. I don't think we need to go into basics here.. since we all Main her lol.

Olimar never has to approach.. like ever.. lol He can spawn pikmin infinitely.. while you may be hitting them off you in one hit.. you will have to make your way slowly towards him and punish him when he thinks he has to attack you via being too close to the edge or you closed the gap enough to dair pressure him. The last thing you want to do is to kill all of olis pikmin and leave him with purples.. who tend to clash with nair/bair. Unless of course you are taking the time to kill the purples with other attacks. If the olimar is smart.. all he really needs in the MU is yellows and Purples to screw Peach over. He may even sacrifice others just to get them haha.

Windstepping is more or less "Float cancelling attacks with added momentum" When you dash - 'ground float fair' when you cancel the fairs lag into w/e she gets slightly added momentum and can cancel it into anything. Same applies to Bair. It's hard to explain... It's like Ground Floating.. but much faster. Since I could go into Dash stepping.. which is Dash cancelling into an immediate Windstep Fair (ground float) you will notice she will be floating at her dash speed due to the inital dash command. This only seems to work for fair though... while you could always cancel bair before the hitbox with this too lol. I wish I could show you lol... but I have no way to record things.. :x Though my last tourney has yet to be uploaded.. XD As to how she gets messed up on slopes.. she CANNOT windstep fair on an incline.. on a downward slope windstep bair will not cancel correctly.. also very impractical to nair as you will more or less hit lag. This also messes up windstep dairs and uairs.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Heh-heh heh. This is fun.

Arrows and the boomer can also be nulled by bair... she can sour spot bair his bombs to make them go through her (careful not to cancel the float on them to make her hit it twice) or just catch them.. doesn't help for his zair which is not too hard to deal with. I know approaching in the air is not a direct way of getting to TL.. you can easily try to out camp him which is not hard. Though if the stage is messing up your spacing.. and not allowing you to utilise ground air attacks to punish him then yes... the stage is hindering Peach.

We play different on these stages. Cause I have never ad a problem with stuff like this. Or have other means of approaching. But also, depending up match up, peach best options are not always recommended for various reasons. Same way as how Peach is godly at pressuring. Yet Marth up-P denies all that, so you have to do things a lil different. You may need to do this on this stage or w/e match up you in or how you play, I don't on the other hand and have no problem timing this fools out or pressuring them, etc.

So I'll end this section here, just gonna go in a loop.

Fair is never great way to ko... in fact it has horrible KO power even when Fresh.. I have tested this.. and experienced Fresh fairs still being unable to ko at 160/170% due to DI from my opponents. Though that being said... peach's entire moveset attack power is ridiculously weak.. this is where camping comes in. While using Dair in the beginning to rack damage or set up at lower %s is fine.. since dair can lead into a 32-42% combo (depends on opponents SDI and character fall speed) dair becomes less useful as Peach racks on the damage.. in fact dair stops comboing into other things even on the fastfallers around 60-80% it doesn't knock the opponent offstage can be problematic depending on the character... this is where fair/bair comes in. Though.. I don't think we need to go into basics here.. since we all Main her lol.

Fair is her best Kill move that is not that hard to hit due to power. Thus is one reason peach players abuse that move to no end sometimes.

You can combo in to her dair at even high % I do it alot just by falling and not letting her 4th kick not come out. Well I should not say combo really. But you can uptilt or even upsmash if they try to smash DI or jump. They wil be over you and not able to escape her uptilt in time. This is how I like to punish people who love to SDI my Dair. if they pop up infront of you, you can cross up into a grab or a jab combo mixup. You can still get hit confirm with an early canceled dair.

Olimar never has to approach.. like ever.. lol He can spawn pikmin infinitely.. while you may be hitting them off you in one hit.. you will have to make your way slowly towards him and punish him when he thinks he has to attack you via being too close to the edge or you closed the gap enough to dair pressure him. The last thing you want to do is to kill all of olis pikmin and leave him with purples.. who tend to clash with nair/bair. Unless of course you are taking the time to kill the purples with other attacks.

That is not true. For one thing, what people fail too keep in mind. When is camping (or any camper in general) They usually pin themself to the edge of the stage. People don't pay attention to this and just try to rush in cause in their mind they are all like

- Dammit, I need to get in to stop him from camping

- Taking too much damage *starts to get annoyed, loses focus and attention rate drops*

- *goes in swinging and the player just rolls away from assults and continues. Or just waits for you to swing and counter attacks.*

Gorunded Nair or Fair to turnip toss>follow up. Up To three pikmin are done. And his rane is weakened. Now he has to get away from you to get Pikim. This meaning fighting you off. He could end up with no pikmin.. Now this is the time when you can be aggressive all you want. Pressure him and toss his *** around. Go back to the basic of why Peach gets in his ***. When he gets pikmin and camps. Use the same method. Don't rush him. Don't Rush the approach at all. This is what campers want.

You can just Nair his pikmin while his in a coner. While you have that turnip. Don't really have to go to him. Frm here you can affectively camp him with turnips. he won't have much to stop them with with few to no pikmin here is a quick apprach list with his camping:

Grounded Nair(many times as needed) Glide toss>Jab> Follow it up

Grounded Nair(many times as needed) Glide toss>Grounded Nair (Space this to a Jab if they happen to shield and follow it up)

Grounded Nair(many times as needed) Glide toss>Grounded fair (Space if anything to a jab. Auto cancel your fair correctly or you will lag from the fair and be an sitting duck)

Grounded fair>Glide toss>(follow the other stuff above that you could add after glide toss)

Grounded Nair(many times as needed)/Nair >Instant Dash attack.

The turnip is there to prevent a grab or escape one if you happen to get grabbed. or have a turnip stop a pikmin and follow up there. Corner him and don't rush him. He will be a fool to get pikmin after you kill his team when you are right there. Now once you get a hit and rack up damage, I just bounce. He camps, I just keep my distance and Nair/Bair (mostly grounded nair) To kill his pikmin. And if he has purples, I pay attention to it and when he tosses it. And time nair. or Fsmash it. (Making sure I can Fsmash safe of course that way he can't abuse me for it.)

if I get that stock lead thats it. He is like sonic trying to get in. My Nair beat all his attacks/ approaches. Olimar really does not wanna be cornered by anyone who can kill his pikim well and pressure. Marth is one of these characters. Pressure, kill team and space. baits to rolls or side steps, follow up/punish, repeat till you win.

So no, he can't just sit there doing that forever(unless you actually allow it to happen. Llod has time out olimars for reason like this.

Windstepping is more or less "Float cancelling attacks with added momentum" When you dash - 'ground float fair' when you cancel the fairs lag into w/e she gets slightly added momentum and can cancel it into anything. Same applies to Bair. It's hard to explain... It's like Ground Floating.. but much faster. Since I could go into Dash stepping.. which is Dash cancelling into an immediate Windstep Fair (ground float) you will notice she will be floating at her dash speed due to the inital dash command. This only seems to work for fair though... while you could always cancel bair before the hitbox with this too lol. I wish I could show you lol... but I have no way to record things.. :x Though my last tourney has yet to be uploaded.. XD

Is that right? Sounds interesting. I should look into this. heh, learn something new today.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Heh-heh heh. This is fun.



We play different on these stages. Cause I have never ad a problem with stuff like this. Or have other means of approaching. But also, depending up match up, peach best options are not always recommended for various reasons. Same way as how Peach is godly at pressuring. Yet Marth up-P denies all that, so you have to do things a lil different. You may need to do this on this stage or w/e match up you in or how you play, I don't on the other hand and have no problem timing this fools out or pressuring them, etc.

So I'll end this section here, just gonna go in a loop.



Fair is her best Kill move that is not that hard to hit due to power. Thus is one reason peach players abuse that move to no end sometimes.

You can combo in to her dair at even high % I do it alot just by falling and not letting her 4th kick not come out. Well I should not say combo really. But you can uptilt or even upsmash if they try to smash DI or jump. They wil be over you and not able to escape her uptilt in time. This is how I like to punish people who love to SDI my Dair. if they pop up infront of you, you can cross up into a grab or a jab combo mixup. You can still get hit confirm with an early canceled dair.



That is not true. For one thing, what people fail too keep in mind. When is camping (or any camper in general) They usually pin themself to the edge of the stage. People don't pay attention to this and just try to rush in cause in their mind they are all like

- Dammit, I need to get in to stop him from camping

- Taking too much damage *starts to get annoyed, loses focus and attention rate drops*

- *goes in swinging and the player just rolls away from assults and continues. Or just waits for you to swing and counter attacks.*

Gorunded Nair or Fair to turnip toss>follow up. Up To three pikmin are done. And his rane is weakened. Now he has to get away from you to get Pikim. This meaning fighting you off. He could end up with no pikmin.. Now this is the time when you can be aggressive all you want. Pressure him and toss his *** around. Go back to the basic of why Peach gets in his ***. When he gets pikmin and camps. Use the same method. Don't rush him. Don't Rush the approach at all. This is what campers want.

You can just Nair his pikmin while his in a coner. While you have that turnip. Don't really have to go to him. Frm here you can affectively camp him with turnips. he won't have much to stop them with with few to no pikmin here is a quick apprach list with his camping:

Grounded Nair(many times as needed) Glide toss>Jab> Follow it up

Grounded Nair(many times as needed) Glide toss>Grounded Nair (Space this to a Jab if they happen to shield and follow it up)

Grounded Nair(many times as needed) Glide toss>Grounded fair (Space if anything to a jab. Auto cancel your fair correctly or you will lag from the fair and be an sitting duck)

Grounded fair>Glide toss>(follow the other stuff above that you could add after glide toss)

Grounded Nair(many times as needed)/Nair >Instant Dash attack.

The turnip is there to prevent a grab or escape one if you happen to get grabbed. or have a turnip stop a pikmin and follow up there. Corner him and don't rush him. He will be a fool to get pikmin after you kill his team when you are right there. Now once you get a hit and rack up damage, I just bounce. He camps, I just keep my distance and Nair/Bair (mostly grounded nair) To kill his pikmin. And if he has purples, I pay attention to it and when he tosses it. And time nair. or Fsmash it. (Making sure I can Fsmash safe of course that way he can't abuse me for it.)

if I get that stock lead thats it. He is like sonic trying to get in. My Nair beat all his attacks/ approaches. Olimar really does not wanna be cornered by anyone who can kill his pikim well and pressure. Marth is one of these characters. Pressure, kill team and space. baits to rolls or side steps, follow up/punish, repeat till you win.

So no, he can't just sit there doing that forever(unless you actually allow it to happen. Llod has time out olimars for reason like this.



Is that right? Sounds interesting. I should look into this. heh, learn something new today.

I don't play on stages which can interfere or take away options from my character... lol Simple as that. I don't feel the need to 'time out' someone when I can just beat them on a neutral lol. I've yet to ever need to time someone out.. luckily. X3 Though I have been timed out...

Fair is unfortunately her easiest KO move because with proper DI her entire Move set can 'act stale' abusing something such as fair which has already minimum ko power really does not set her back much. X3 I say easiest.. because in reality she has stronger moves that ko early.. they are just situational to land.. *glares at tennis racket* lol

The way I play is very... Bait - Punish... While yes I have her basic combos down such as dair - uair - utilt (double dair on fast fallers) and her CG... the usual basics.. after around 60-80% I focus more on baiting with turnips.. avoiding as much damage as possible while getting as much chip with turnips + hits off baiting as possible. I find it the best way to avoid unneeded damage to rack up on her.. while keeping her safe.

Oli's that I have seen and played I have rarely seen them ever really 'depleted' of pikmin. They don't just throw them out all at once.. which sounds like what you are saying happens. They tend to throw 1 - 2 restock once Peach or another character murders them as let's face it you are not going to let pikmin sit on you.. but meh that's just what I've experienced personally. lol I don't have too much of an issue with olimar.. but I don't play that MU too often haha. Instead... yea... they just go Meta Lame.. :x

Edit: At least it's good we have different playstyles.. allows us to compare the playstyles XD Help make Peach better.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I don't play on stages which can interfere or take away options from my character... lol Simple as that. I don't feel the need to 'time out' someone when I can just beat then on a neutral lol. I've yet to ever need to time someone out.. luckily. X3 Though I have been timed out...

See, we are different. Im sorry but if you wanna be a prun bucket and camp me all day, Im not gonna sit here and take that lighty. if I can time you out for that I will. w/e options get taken away from me, I create new ones that are just a good. thats how versitale I can be with this character.

Fair is unfortunately her easiest KO move because with proper DI her entire Move set can 'act stale' abusing something such as fair which has already minimum ko power really does not set her back much. X3 I say easiest.. because in reality she has stronger moves that ko early.. they are just situational to land.. *glares at tennis racket* lol

uh-huh.

The way I play is very... Bait - Punish... While yes I have her basic combos down such as dair - uair - utilt (double dair on fast fallers) and her CG... the usual basics.. after around 60-80% I focus more on baiting with turnips.. avoiding as much damage as possible while getting as much chip with turnips + hits off baiting as possible. I find it the best way to avoid unneeded damage to rack up on her.. while keeping her safe.

Good

Oli's that I have seen and played I have rarely seen them ever really 'depleted' of pikmin. They don't just throw them out all at once.. which sounds like what you are saying happens. They tend to throw 1 - 2 restock once Peach or another character murders them as let's face it you are not going to let pikmin sit on you.. but meh that's just what I've experienced personally. lol I don't have too much of an issue with olimar.. but I don't play that MU too often haha. Instead... yea... they just go Meta Lame.. :x

Heh-heh heh.

We should play sometime. be nice to fight a Peach that is just as defensive as me. Just being fighting aggressive ones all the time. And it gets quite boring.

 

[1PokeMastr]

You need.. to come to Canada for that to occur.

Ps.

I almost called you "Praxis".

 

[Dark.Pch]

You need.. to come to Canada for that to occur.

Ps.

I almost called you "Praxis".

Dude, don't you ever, EVER........

 

[1PokeMastr]

You could be Dark Praxis!
..
New Movie.
The Dark Praxis.

I play the Poker!

Anyway, read here has taught me a lot about Peach.
Maybe mine will be as good as yours.

Also, I might mention, though, it's on a Condition.

When you have a Turnip..
Run up -> Drop it -> Foot Stool Them when it hits them -> Bair Lock -> Etc from there.

It's conditional, but VERY rewarding in the end.

 

[Dark.Pch]

You have no clue how bad I want to destroy you.......

Also you say footstool. You mean something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fifCOptiDHo

 

[Peachy-Desu]

You could be Dark Praxis!
..
New Movie.
The Dark Praxis.

I play the Poker!

Anyway, read here has taught me a lot about Peach.
Maybe mine will be as good as yours.

Also, I might mention, though, it's on a Condition.

When you have a Turnip..
Run up -> Drop it -> Foot Stool Them when it hits them -> Bair Lock -> Etc from there.

It's conditional, but VERY rewarding in the end.

or... you know... dair - uair - utilt.. same amount of damage.. and makes the match progress faster. :D

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

or... you know... dair - uair - utilt.. same amount of damage.. and makes the match progress faster. :D

I don't know...I feel that combo is 08ish and doesn't work so well anymore against opponents who DI impeccably. Still works most of the time >_<

 

[1PokeMastr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fifCOptiDHo This.

With.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4sTCS7knCM&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL


And, lighten up, I'm really tired, and thought'd it'd be funny to make a joke, I mean no harm.
Just ask Peachy.

It can lead to follow ups after the get up, etc.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

I don't know...I feel that combo is 08ish and doesn't work so well anymore against opponents who DI impeccably. Still works most of the time >_<

It still works... harder to set up.. but still works.. easier on fast fallers. Just read your opponents DI.. if you don't and just sit there.. yea won't work.

Yea.. poke means no harm... just an aspiring Peach main.. looking to learn the ways of the princess~

 

[z00ted]

What the **** is going on?

 

[Peachy-Desu]

What the **** is going on?

Activity... on the Peach boards? :D

 

[Dark.Pch]

And, lighten up, I'm really tired, and thought'd it'd be funny to make a joke, I mean no harm.
Just ask Peachy.

It can lead to follow ups after the get up, etc.

I can tell you don't know me very well and my witty personality. not mad or anything.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Before I decide to read. Was the last page worth reading?

 

[Peachy-Desu]

If you wanna read bickering.. no... I guess there's some points here and there about windstepping and how you can apply it in your game.. but skim to learn it's adv.

 

[z00ted]

Peachy-Desu, do you attend offline tournaments in Canada?