Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Gokuzz]

What is this M2K combo I heard off?

 

[3xSwords]

Hold on sir, Pierce. Are you sure bair and dair don't auto cancel? I'm sure that even if there is barely any frame advantage, that you can auto cancel the bair and dair except it is just really close to the end of their animation.

Also where are the points that the uair, fair, and nair would auto cancel? Are they just anytime during the animation?

And the M2K combo. meh there are so many of them I don't know which one to tell you.

 

[Gokuzz]

Tell me all!

 

[3xSwords]

Well idk all of them that's the thing. Since I nvr played melee for more than a year seriously >.>

****, whatever, one I know is for Marth u-throw>dair. In melee btw. In brawl there's one for MK, it's like glide attack>nair>upB (I think don't know about the last part). Also in brawl there was one for Marth, but then he realized due to brawl's decreased hit stun it didn't work.

Basically there's more than one, because he just makes a combo and calls it the M2K combo. Somebody want to answer my question?

 

[Pierce7d]

Hold on sir, Pierce. Are you sure bair and dair don't auto cancel? I'm sure that even if there is barely any frame advantage, that you can auto cancel the bair and dair except it is just really close to the end of their animation.

Also where are the points that the uair, fair, and nair would auto cancel? Are they just anytime during the animation?

And the M2K combo. meh there are so many of them I don't know which one to tell you.

The Uair, Fair, and Nair all end instantly upon contact with the ground from any point during the animation. I'm relatively certain that neither the Bair or Dair do (although the ending animation for the Bair isn't nearly as long as the Dair)

 

[Nibbity]

alright, I have a question.

F-throw to F-smash will obviously get you a smooth 25% from the start of the match. But why will people only do it if the opponent has 0%?

Doing that technique will be effective even at 25%, and get them to 45-50 with knockback.

So uh....eh. what's going on here?

 

[Steel]

It's not a true combo unless it's 0-4%. Any higher most characters can DI out.

 

[VaKe]

So in videos i see people grapping a ledge from the stage really fast, do they do it with a short hop?

I alwys ran over the stage fastfalled and jumped, but thats slow...

 

[Steel]

You can simply fall off, then immediately DI towards the stage so you grab on. Or the faster way is to fall, fastfall, DI towards the stage (done quickly). You're kind of moving the control stick a half circle around.

 

[Hype]

Another method to quickly grab the edge is to roll towards it so your facing the inside of the stage then press diagonally down backwards.

 

[3xSwords]

I nvr like that method. For some reason I suck at diagonal inputs so go figure .

 

[Remzi]

i use the method steel2nd described known as "hugging."

its the easiest and fastest way

 

[Dr Peepee]

I know that EL has said that Marth is very strong on defense, but against Snake would it be better to be more aggressive because of his(Snake's) greater range on his Ftilt and Utilt? I'm not saying all-out, but definately much more so than vs most other characters. I mostly say this because I can't shield pressure at all vs good Snakes either, so that may also have something to do with it...

 

[3xSwords]

If you shield effectively you should have no problem. If you shield an f-tilt, u-tilt, or jab you can always punish with a DB or DS out of shield, but they have to be done at the highest speed or he will f-tilt again.

It might sound nooby but I need reassurance, can Dolphin Slash clash with anything on frame 5 (this is when the hitbox first appears and Marth is invincible)? Basically my question, can an invincibile hitbox clash with anything or will it always outprioritize?

 

[Steel]

Dr I feel that you have to play extra patient vs snake.

3x Im pretty sure up b will beat anything

 

[Dr Peepee]

Well then, could you see if I was patient enough? These videos are from the losers semis at the big NC tournament(Jubilee), and I doubt that another critique thread needs to be made. Just tell me if I have the right idea please:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA1g9EfnnP0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bovsY1jK5Bg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a3ef-c-3pY

I really feel like I should've had it, but I also feel like there is something else I need to do to push myself over the edge to become better vs Snake, and I can't figure it out.

 

[Steel]

Ill look at them later when I have time and let you know what I think

 

[legion598]

ok so i finally stopped going for d-air spikes on a whim and now i only use it as a ledge hopped edge guard towards obvious/direct recoveries such as fox and falco and was wondering if this is the only good time to use it

 

[Steel]

DrPP:

I watched the first vid and half of the second and thought you played pretty well. You didn't blindly rush in and for the most part you were intelligent with your approach. I saw a couple times you'd just run into his ftilt however, but not too big of a deal.

You should avoid aerial approaches vs Snake because you'll either eat an up tilt or a knee.

I also thought your grab game was severely lacking. I think people underestimate marth's grab game. Sure they don't throw your opponent far, they don't do too much damage, but it's the set ups and chip damage that is important.

However, when you did grab I was happy to see you used the up throw, though you were never able to capitalize on the juggle trap (if you want me to go more in depth with that let me know). Should work on that because it's a snake nightmare.

Last thing i'd like to say is you never up b'd out of shield from what i saw. If you shield his first ftilt, up b and get snake out of your face. A few times you held up your shield waiting for Snake's fsmash to hit it, that's all fine and dandy but you could have abused your invincibility frames and just up b'd snake instead.

That's all i really have to say, you've a good marth.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Firstly, thank you so much for taking the time to look at that Steel.
Now, I was trying to get shieldgrabs at those times when I ran into the Ftilts, but I always forget how long it takes to pull the shield up out of a dash....

What are good mixups on the ground then vs Snake? Walk to Ftilt/Fsmash/shieldbreaker/Dtilt/shield?

Please, go into the juggle trap in depth. I seem to fail at that pretty hard lol. If I could do that better, I think I would've done much better most likely.

Thanks for the advice on the Up-B out of shield. Wasn't entirely sure on when to use that.

Thanks for the complement man. I'm trying to do all of the Marth users proud. I won't lose to him again, you better believe it!

 

[ZHMT]

I just noticed that Snakes Nair did 29%....<_<

Anyways, Steel2nd covered mostly everything I can think of. Your Marth is nice and including what Steel said would make it even better. Especially grabs...like Steel2nd said, use juggle traps.

Basically Snake fails pretty hard in the air, grabbing snake is win.

Use up throws to throw him in the air. Keep him in the air and force air dodges and punish his landing. You can rack soo much % doing that. Use Uairs and utilts, grabs as well,as he lands. Otherwise you played very well.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yeah, I missed everything when I tried to juggle once or twice, which could've drastically changed the outcome of the match. I think if I can improve my juggling game, I can finally whup him. Thanks for that! I'm gonna figure out a way to get more grabs, no worries.

 

[Steel]

Juggle traps.

Up throw or dancing blade up snake.

Snake's options are now severely limited. All he can really do is air dodge. Start it off with SHFF'd up airs as he falls down to draw out an air dodge. As he comes down he will most likely air dodge again, wait for that and either grab again (my preferred), up tilt, up smash (something i should use more). It's something that takes practice.


And i shouldn't have said to not use aerials vs snake. It's true that youll get a knee to the face but i think you have to focus your game on getting inside his grenades and tilts and then rack up the %. Use up throw a lot and try to get him off the edge.

 

[Steel]

Do know however that all of your ground moves outrange snake except for his second ftilt.

 

[3xSwords]

Doesn't his first hit ftilt clash with everything? So would that really be helpful if your moves outrange it but clashes? I mean Marth dtilt vs Snake ftilt is like a clashing festival. I think you should be more specific on which ground moves, I'm guessing you're only talking about ftilt and dtilt b/c Marth's jab and utilt don't outrange Snake's ftilt.

Also legion, you should only really use dair when the odds are in your favor, and there is minimal risk. Such as spiking against a transparent recovery while hanging from the ledge or going for the over kill. These are the only times to use dair practically.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Thanks for that Steel. I'll definately try it out next time and kick some tail.

 

[Fatalzyntax]

Can I please get some friend codes for Marth players? I use the FF but there's no Marth mains at all there and I really need to get better since I'm sucking so much
Need to play against other Marths!
Please, anyone?

 

[IDK]

okay i'm not a noob, so i know that ken combo doesn't exist... but i'm wondering if this thing may be a true combo. just to see go to training at 22% on final d against DDD do a fthrow, short hopped fair... then this: you all know the no-fast-fall dair right? where you are on your way down and don't fast fall when you do it? well if you hold down during the fair, you won't fast fall, then keep holding down, c stick the dair. so what this potential combo is is fair>no fast fall dair. the reason i think this may be a combo is that it doesn't require the use of the second jump, giving the opponent less time to airdodge. at higher percentages do this with a rising fullhopped fair.

 

[IDK]

I just noticed that Snakes Nair did 29%....<_<

oh, and it's 28, and so does his nair, and fullhopped double bair.

 

[3xSwords]

And no its not a combo. Use reasoning and if double fair doesn't register as a combo how would fair>dair, being slower, work? Also f-throw>fair doesn't work on DDD because he's too f***in fat.

Anyway good try but for Marth no FF dair is not really that useful. Situational but not useful. The usefulness is basically destroyed by the fact that you are vulnerable for a long time with no hitbox whatsoever. If you want to know a character that benefits from no FF dair, it's someone like Ike or Ganon, because hitbox stays out for a long time and you can perform an action soon after the hitbox disappears.

 

[HW_Dark Link]

to improve u must realize ur characters weaknesses and use them to ur advantage

 

[3xSwords]

I dont think I'm too far off when I say "wtf?" Am I right?

 

[∫unk]

I got a question: wtf is the obsession with Ken combo?

 

[3xSwords]

Idk
I just got here 10 min ago and all the talk was about Ken combo.

Apparantely one nub asked how to do ken combo. As a resul steel makes his epic thread, and then another guy makes another thread about what he thinks about steel's thread.

yeah go figure >.>

 

[me2king1xx0]

ya lol ken combo sux

 

[Shintarru]

There is no ken combo to suck in brawl.

 

[jinofcoolnes]

Ken combo work guys really it does.

 

[Pierce7d]

If you shield effectively you should have no problem. If you shield an f-tilt, u-tilt, or jab you can always punish with a DB or DS out of shield, but they have to be done at the highest speed or he will f-tilt again.

It might sound nooby but I need reassurance, can Dolphin Slash clash with anything on frame 5 (this is when the hitbox first appears and Marth is invincible)? Basically my question, can an invincibile hitbox clash with anything or will it always outprioritize?

I'm pretty sure that Dolphin Slash has **** priority, and doesn't clash.

 

[IDK]

i know dair has a ton more afterlag, but what about input lag? some really laggy attacks come out really quick.

 

[3xSwords]

To get a counter out of shielding what is faster?

JC cancel shield and do counter immediately or shield drop and counter?