Backroom Reform: Current Topic -> Success?

[iRJi]

Lol, I dont see why this is still going on to a sense.

Ideally, if you want to prove a point to people outside the BBR, you need to have facts backing it.

Why not hold a Public Poll to see what teh community thinks is a good ruleset/stages or not. It has never been done, and the results may become surprising.

It will also not be that hard to manage. When it's all done, you can then compare the public ruleset, and the BBR ruleset, and go from there.

It's not that hard people.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Why not hold a Public Poll to see what teh community thinks is a good ruleset/stages or not. It has never been done, and the results may become surprising.

Because it would end up with everyone from the EC only voting for about 12 stages, people from Texas voting for about 20 stages, People from MW voting for about 25 stages, ect, and then everyone flaming each other and calling each other stupid.

 

[Juushichi]

For the record, most of the midwest is right in line for this stage set. There might be some that would go for 22 (adding in counter/banned) and some for less than 20. 20 is about the average.

 

[Pierce7d]

I read the first two pages, will read the rest, and I'm LOVING this thread. I joined the social group, and would like to show you this:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=283011

 

[Flayl]

For the record, most of the midwest is right in line for this stage set. There might be some that would go for 22 (adding in counter/banned) and some for less than 20. 20 is about the average.

Please do us a favor and post videos of players playing on the more controversial stages.

I want to see if players are actually taking advantage of the stages in such a way that other regions would ban it, if Midwest players just turn a blind eye, or if the stages aren't all that bad.

 

[Overswarm]

Please do us a favor and post videos of players playing on the more controversial stages.

I want to see if players are actually taking advantage of the stages in such a way that other regions would ban it, if Midwest players just turn a blind eye, or if the stages aren't all that bad.

It just isn't all that bad, I don't have much videos to show of recent agmes though.

 

[Flayl]

Forgive me if I don't take your word for it?

 

[Eddie G]

Forgive me if I don't take your word for it?

You should. You really, really should.

 

[vVv Rapture]

Everyone doubting the stages should just play them, record why they should be banned, and then show the rest of us. I hope a good number of people can do that. I'd do that if I had a terrible hatred for the new stages, but I honestly don't care either way (except Yoshi's Pipes, I hate that stage with a passion, though I'll play on it).

Even if people tested it in the past, there's no reason not to test again seeing as just saying, "we've tried this before, it didn't work, wow" obviously isn't working.

I'd actually like to see some new gameplay (not from like 08) on these stages, to be perfectly honest.

 

[Overswarm]

Just a reminder:

I ran a contest a while ago in the midwest forums asking people to post videos of many of the stages people are complaining about in here. I asked for people to SHOW me why they're broken, and I offered prizes. Guaranteed prizes even; you didn't even have to convince me, I'd buy you something on virtual console.

0 videos were entered into the contest, and the stages stayed on my circuit.

 

[Juushichi]

Well, we'll try to get something working soon.

OUGA: Going to Game Three is there with all of these stages (short of Counter/Banned), we'll see if we can get a stream up or record some videos for people to see.

 

[AfroQT]

Just a reminder:

I ran a contest a while ago in the midwest forums asking people to post videos of many of the stages people are complaining about in here. I asked for people to SHOW me why they're broken, and I offered prizes. Guaranteed prizes even; you didn't even have to convince me, I'd buy you something on virtual console.

0 videos were entered into the contest, and the stages stayed on my circuit.

Way to prove your point.
I don't have to make a video to show that a stage that clearly interrupts fighting, and a stage where a random occurance (TRIPPING) could lead to death is BAD FOR COMPETITIVE PLAY. If you disagree, thats fine, then why are ALL stages not allowed, AND why are items not allowed?

This "in between" thing is COMPLETE bull****. The logic you are using to legalize some stage and ban some others is completely just....ridiculous i honestly dont have another word i could use. Someone earlier (maybe this thread, maybe another) tried to tell me that Skyworld wasnt on because of Cave of Immortality..MEANWHILE ON LUIGIS MANSION.

If you're going to start saying "yeah bro its all avoidable", ALL the stages should be legal. If your not, then we need to go conservative. This inbetween **** is CLEARLY made for a purpose i guess is only known to a few inside the BBR.

Oh yeah and anyone not brain dead rofl...

 

[Overswarm]

Afro, are you high?

IF IT IS SO EASY, YOU CAN PROVE IT.

Seriously, just make a video showing what can happen, then record several matches. See how often it occurs.

Better yet, I have a challenge for you:

Predict HOW OFTEN some of these horrible things will happen on a stage. Explain why they're bad, then record a set amount of games. Tag how often those horrible things happen and the consequences. Put out a full on report.

I gurantee that you'd have to be lying to get the kind of data you think would show up.

If you're going to start saying "yeah bro its all avoidable", ALL the stages should be legal. If your not, then we need to go conservative. This inbetween **** is CLEARLY made for a purpose i guess is only known to a few inside the BBR.

Originalist vs. Constructivist. Look it up.

 

[Crow!]

Lol @ conspiracy theories. If the BBR were really a secret MK banning machine, don't you think it would have been more direct (and frankly more publicly supported!) for us to just ban Meta Knight?

No, we made this ruleset the way it is because it was what we determined was the right thing to do, not with some secret alternative agenda which could be resolved in a much more straightforward manner. I invite Afro (and others like him) to, after some of the rage the posting in the past couple days demonstrate subside, seriously test the now-supported stages with some of their training buddies and with an open mind.

If you still disagree that those stages produce good (if, in some cases, fundamentally different) gameplay, then come back with the reasons the stages turned you off. Then more people who don't already agree with your statements might come to your side.

(Edit: Basically, the same concept as OS, above. He gives you a more fun challenge to try, though.)

 

[lordhelmet]

The reason no one has made a video is because it is a TON of work to do, and it shouldn't have to be done in the first place.

 

[Juushichi]

The reason no one has made a video is because it is a TON of work to do, and that shouldn't have to be done in the first place.

Ah! I believe we've gotten to the true root of your problem. Thanks.

 

[lordhelmet]

Omg **** crashboards, not typing all that **** out again

 

[vVv Rapture]

Yeah, that was sort of annoying.

Still, recording video =/= hard work. Unless you have to buy a camera or something or a cap card. That's the hard part, maybe.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

I read the first two pages, will read the rest, and I'm LOVING this thread. I joined the social group, and would like to show you this:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=283011

0_o Pierce da bess.

 

[Palpi]

**** weird stages

 

[StarLight]

Okay, I looked like a **** there. But seriously. On topic people(meaning everyone), drop the ruleset. The stagelist may have been the catalyst to all of this, but it is not the subject of the matter at hand.

 

[vVv Rapture]

They were replying to those people, lol. ****, people get really nit-picky.

 

[lordhelmet]

Moved this to the stage discusion:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10903927&postcount=14

 

[The Real Inferno]

What's the point of making the ruleset if the BBR knows that no one will follow it?

Anything the BBR does should be productive, not just a suggestion or something to fall back on. A ruleset should be something that does end up being practical and productive so that the community can use it, not for it to be posted and say, "well if you don't like it, don't use it." What's the point of making it then?

We do need some sort of authority in our community, but one that has authority for a good reason - to cater to everyone else, not defend their own decisions with their lives. For the people, by the people, I say. If the BBR sees a backlash after doing something, instead of trying to justify it, they should try to, you know, try to fix what they think is wrong with it or, at the very least, try to understand it instead of pointlessly arguing.

This is the single best post in this thread in my opinion. I just felt I needed to say that.

 

[RATED]

the thread topic is a That's what she said

also people still complain about the ruleset :/

look at it like this: you were given a hamburger with every ingredient possible it, you remove what ingredients you don't want and stay with the ingredients that satisfies your needs and add another ones if you feel incomplete without it.

 

[Hater]

Except your burger is smeared with all these other horrible flavours

 

[Kewkky]

Except your burger is smeared with all these other horrible flavours

Fine then, consider the ruleset an all-you-can-eat buffet, where the food is organized in categories, and you choose what you want for your plate.

Now stop dancing around the metaphors and understand them, it's not like it's hard to. You're given lots of options, you take out some and put in others, and you should be getting something that satisfies you. That's how it has ALWAYS been. Have you ever seen a tourney that runs with the BBR's previous ruleset intact? I don't think I have, and I don't think you have either. :embarrass

 

[AfroQT]

Lol @ conspiracy theories. If the BBR were really a secret MK banning machine, don't you think it would have been more direct (and frankly more publicly supported!) for us to just ban Meta Knight?

2 sides, not 1.

No, we made this ruleset the way it is because it was what we determined was the right thing to do, not with some secret alternative agenda which could be resolved in a much more straightforward manner. I invite Afro (and others like him) to, after some of the rage the posting in the past couple days demonstrate subside, seriously test the now-supported stages with some of their training buddies and with an open mind.

I've played on it, with training buddies, open mind...probably not. Do you think i invented the "idea" of tripping into cars? No, it happened. When im not at a tournament i don't take the game to serious, so i didnt save it (though now i wish i would have). But if you think im lieing.. w/e, i think its obvious that you could indeed trip into a car on PTAD. If the percent of it happening is above 0%...what does that mean to you?

Predict HOW OFTEN some of these horrible things will happen on a stage. Explain why they're bad, then record a set amount of games. Tag how often those horrible things happen and the consequences. Put out a full on report.

IM sorry, i have no real way to put this even though I KNOW what will be said back, but im not starting a smash project at my house to prove this point. And to be honest, on that point, what is anyone else doing to prove that this IS good for competitive play. If we are still going by that "its avoidable" logic, what is stopping even more stages from being put on?

 

[vVv Rapture]

If we are still going by that "its avoidable" logic, what is stopping even more stages from being put on?

Nothing. Go find a stage you want legalized, show why it should be legalized, convince others that it should be legalized and there's a chance it will be legalized.

 

[AfroQT]

Nothing. Go find a stage you want legalized, show why it should be legalized, convince others that it should be legalized and there's a chance it will be legalized.

Alright i want Mushroom Kingdom and Big Blue on. All hazards are avoidable.

Whens Ruleset 3.1 coming out?

 

[-Vocal-]

A lot of people in this thread should visit my signature. Especially you, Afro. Pierce posted the thread here but it's as if no one took notice.

Things that BPC said.

BPC, I've read enough of your posts to know that you occasionally know what you are talking about, but this time you are WAY off base. Creating a new power structure in that manner would be both A) Difficult to create in the first place [who decides who gets in where? can people be in more than one? etc.] and B) Difficult to regulate. There is no need to throw out the backroom as it is, it simply needs to be streamlined with members that are more willing to contribute (though it's ok if they don't contribute to everything; they are human and will not know everything, everyone needs to stop saying they should).

Read this. They don't have power. Never have, never will.

If you truly believe that, then I must say that is a naive belief to hold. The BBR has more sway on this community than anything else - I challenge you to name something that has had a larger effect than they have. No explicit authority =/= no power.

Now to the subject at hand.

I do believe that the BR needs reform, but I'm uncertain as to the best ways to do it. Certainly, the most inactive members should be removed, but past this I am torn. Should more people be admitted, even though they may not be more qualified than others already in the BR just for the sake of having a larger number? Should the BR stay small and let decisions be made by a select few?

I'm uncertain of BR policies, but there should be a probation period for new members of at least a month. If within that time they do not show themselves to be adequately active (this does NOT mean active in every discussion, for not everyone must know everything) or do not show themselves to be competent at presenting arguments or thinking in a logical manner, they should be removed. In addition, members should be re-evaluated every 2-3 months to make sure they are still useful. This brings up the issue of who becomes the judge of this, but I feel that is a much better dilemma than the one we are currently faced with.

 

[vVv Rapture]

Alright i want Mushroom Kingdom and Big Blue on. All hazards are avoidable.

Whens Ruleset 3.1 coming out?

The moving of the screen on Mushroom Kingdom puts me in difficult situations or forces me into an obstacle. I define the moving of the screen a hazard. That hazard is unavoidable.

I like Big Blue, though.

 

[napZzz]

The moving of the screen on Mushroom Kingdom puts me in difficult situations or forces me into an obstacle. I define the moving of the screen a hazard. That hazard is unavoidable.

I like Big Blue, though.

A stage like port town definitely isn't similar to this

not at all, not at all

 

[demonictoonlink]

I still can't believe Distant Planet was legalized before weed.

 

[gallax]

You can expect the 3.1version soon guys. We are trying to make sure that we touch base on every rule that causing controversy. And believe me when i say we are working on this to the best of all our abilities. Be patient and i assure you that you all will have answers to your question about the ruleset soon enough.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

A stage like port town definitely isn't similar to this

not at all, not at all

It isn't. Mushroomy kingdom's camera affects the whole stage, While PTAD's ( for the most part) only affects the background.

 

[napZzz]

I still can't believe Distant Planet was legalized before weed.

I'm sigging this

smoke on my brothers

a moving screen isn't considered a hazard by his rules cuz you can just avoid it by their logic you can easily jump around anything that gets in your way, right? oh thats right too bad there is another person attacking you and you aren't able to avoid all the stupid bull**** on stages like green grens and port town aero dive because you'll probably get hit into it. I just love having the lead and dying to a car at a low percent its fantastic

just sayin, this avoidable logic is stupid. Cuz technically, everything on any stage is avoidable LOL

but rapture. It moves so slowly. Clearly its avoidable

 

[demonictoonlink]

^^^

All of this.

Oh.

And.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

a moving screen isn't considered a hazard by his rules cuz you can just avoid it by their logic you can easily jump around anything that gets in your way, right? oh thats right too bad there is another person attacking you and you aren't able to avoid all the stupid bull**** on stages like green grens and port town aero dive because you'll probably get hit into it. I just love having the lead and dying to a car at a low percent its fantastic

First of all, that was ICGPG confusing.

Second, when was the last time you actually brawled on this stage?

 

[Chuee]

First of all, that was ICGPG confusing.

Second, when was the last time you actually brawled on this stage?

Yesterday.