Balanced Brawl Standard Release

[Linkshot]

There isn't a solution.

If you turn off the Frame Speed Mod, Big Blue and other stages with changed speed won't work like they should.

 

[hyrulianprincesszeldafan]

[sighing] oh well, its just that i miss the smash ball once in a while and i like pwning with zelda/sheik...big tear...T_T

 

[JOE!]

Ah.

But it's not a 0-death potential, right?

it's not 0-death, its more like Falco's in that it wont work after X % or such

 

[Linkshot]

It's interesting that Yoshi has this, but nothing is confirmed until a human jumps instead of air dodging

 

[A2ZOMG]

The real advantage to transforming with Zelda/Sheik is resetting stale moves. Just saying...

 

[Suntan Luigi]

I think... we need a BBrawl FAQ.

That would be useful. Anyone up to making one? :D

Yes, we need this like no other. Too many people are simply too lazy to look into BBrawl seriously. A FAQ would be like a breath of fresh air or something. If there is some way to put the FAQ somewhere other than Smash Workshop that would help a lot too. As for who should make it, I'd vouch for AA or Think or someone else who has worked with the project from early on.

Seriously, we need a BBrawl FAQ.

 

[Linkshot]

A lot of people that look at bBrawl and shrug it off dislike Brawl for different reasons. (I.E: They want a fast-paced game)

 

[SaltyKracka]

Rather than an FAQ, which isn't quite necessary since most of the stuff is explained in the OP, what I'd say is necessary is a troubleshooting topic for people who have trouble with SD cards, items, and so on.

 

[Alphatron]

A lot of people that look at bBrawl and shrug it off dislike Brawl for different reasons. (I.E: They want a fast-paced game)

The people who want a fast paced game don't look at bbrawl at all. Rather, you'll have more people turning away from this game because they'd rather play normal brawl, don't want to deal with hacks, or don't want to get involved in anything illeagal(I long since stopped questioning the last part)

 

[deepseadiva]

Rather than an FAQ, which isn't quite necessary since most of the stuff is explained in the OP, what I'd say is necessary is a troubleshooting topic for people who have trouble with SD cards, items, and so on.

How about a "Balanced Brawl FAQ and Troubleshooting" thread.

Sounds like a nice companion to this thread.

 

[dragoncrescent]

It's good that you're enjoying the game; I hope you continue to play and develop experiences. I will say that with PT you should explore using Pokemon Change more; it's a staple of PT play. As per Water Gun, we recognize it's a fairly limited move in Squirtle's moveset, but Squirtle is such a good character already that we were scared to do anything with it other than make one of its less useful moves just a bit more handy. Also, FYI, adding damage to Water Gun or F.L.U.D.D. results in completely ridiculous damage output. I think a clean hit from fully charged water gun would do at least 16% even if we set Water Gun to the minimum damage of 1%... I remember setting F.L.U.D.D. to do 16% as a mechanics experiment and being blown away when a random squirt did over 200% damage to my opponent.

As per Sonic discussion, not just from you but from everyone, I want to say that it's really easy to underrate the less obvious changes, but it's a mistake. The damage improvement to dash attack is something I find immensely important to Sonic; you could easily forget it while playing, but Sonic's dash attack is so easy to land that I find it can really lead to me getting kills much earlier as Sonic just because I'm doing so much more damage in the long run from my random weak dash attacks I like to pepper enemies when whenever I get a free shot at it. Of course, the spring really is too fun; I'm glad to hear someone else having as much fun with it as we have (also, your description of the type of character Sonic is wasn't far from how I'd describe him).

I've never really noticed that until you pointed it out. In standard brawl, we would joke that sonic really didn't have a "good" move, but I would point out his rolling dash attack. It certainly is helpful to have that slight bit of extra damage to stack up. I also appreciate the changes to the downtilt and upsmash. It seems like the downtilt can combo into the upsmash a bit easier now, and the rumbling of his upsmash feels like the move has some power to it now. Of course, it does. Although I still use most of the off-stage air game to annoy opponents with, I'm getting a lot of feedback that his spring spike may be a bit broken. Possessed of a vendetta to murder people with my favorite character, who was previously somewhat ineffective, I can't really comment on this without bias.

Another thing some of the other players are talking about are the changes to the stages. Spear Pillar and Hyrule Temple were both "fun" stages. We used them when we felt like having a break from the normal intensity of matches, but with the bottom portions gone, so too is the appeal. I know that they are more competitive like this, and indeed Spear Pillar feels like Battlefield with hazards, but is there any way to include an option for them to be unmodified, perhaps similar to the way we can now select which Pokemon will threaten the stage?

I'm surprised how well the WiFi Training Room worked out. Sandbag adds kind of a strange element to the match, merely by just sitting around. Some players seem to miss Hanenbow, though. I can agree, it was a really artsy stage. Would it be possible to have the WiFi Training Room replace a stage that nobody particularly enjoys, such as 75m or New Pork City?

By the way, thank you so much for taking out random tripping. I never really noticed it until someone pointed it out to me while we were playing. ^_^

 

[Linkshot]

WarioWare is the ultimate luls stage.

 

[CloneHat]

WarioWare is the ultimate luls stage.

Wait, you replaced Hanenbow, but you DIDN'T freeze Wario Ware?

 

[Mit]

After playing more and more Sonic I still don't find his spring to be broken. If you're playing a good opponent, they'll be expecting you to use it when they recover, and they will recover accordingly. Very rarely is your opponent without options in their recovery. They can do things like recover fast (before you get out past the ledge, usually very possible), double jump airdodge, recover high (above you), or, what is likely most possible for all characters, simply hit the spring with an attack. The spring can be canceled about by what seems to be almost any move. A simple uair by most characters will be more than enough to cancel it out, and hell, a lot of characters' up-b moves themselves will cancel it out. So, not broken, your friends just need to get up on their recovery game Without the spring I think Sonic wouldn't be too hot (as it is still possible to hit with using some good mindgames, or in situations where your opponent is pretty far away from the ledge and doesn't have much flexibility, or when your opponent's recovery just plain isn't that good).


Respond to my Captain Falcon posts Thinkaman D:

 

[Linkshot]

No stages will be frozen, as that removes uniqueness from the stage.

 

[Alphatron]

Removing uniqueness from a stage ism't really an excuse after what was done to Temple/Pillar. But I see what you mean.

 

[A2ZOMG]

After playing more and more Sonic I still don't find his spring to be broken. If you're playing a good opponent, they'll be expecting you to use it when they recover, and they will recover accordingly. Very rarely is your opponent without options in their recovery. They can do things like recover fast (before you get out past the ledge, usually very possible), double jump airdodge, recover high (above you), or, what is likely most possible for all characters, simply hit the spring with an attack. The spring can be canceled about by what seems to be almost any move. A simple uair by most characters will be more than enough to cancel it out, and hell, a lot of characters' up-b moves themselves will cancel it out. So, not broken, your friends just need to get up on their recovery game Without the spring I think Sonic wouldn't be too hot (as it is still possible to hit with using some good mindgames, or in situations where your opponent is pretty far away from the ledge and doesn't have much flexibility, or when your opponent's recovery just plain isn't that good)

Funny how this was my analysis before BBrawl Standard Release.

What Sonic really needs is something like B-throw being able to kill. I mean because all of his KO moves are just terrible in terms of application and knockback.

Spring gimp is like only really good against Bowser, DK, CF, Link, and Ganondorf lol. Generally characters with terrible recovery that already got gimped easily in the first place are easy to hit with it.

And, I'm going to bet that it's pretty much useless on characters that are actually top threats in BBrawl. Maybe it might hit Marth once in a while, but I kinda doubt you're landing it on G&W, Wario, Mario, Samus, ROB, Metaknight, Snake, etc...

I think someone said a while ago that if WarioWare could be changed to only give the healing reward, it would probably be fine.

 

[Mit]

I think giving him a throw kill would be a bit much (seeing as how he can usually punish pretty easily with throws due to his ground speed), but I would like to see some angles added to his forward and back throws. It's seemingly a good thing for Sonic to get his opponent offstage, but fthrow and bthrow can be DI'd to a near vertical angle, and dthrow can always be teched (although whether or not it is depends on how good the opponent is). If fthrow and bthrow could throw people at a more horizontal angle I think it'd help with his gimping game (which is a rather large part of Sonic's game, even without the spring).

 

[SaltyKracka]

Rather, what Sonic really needs is some more damage buffs to his racking moves. It takes him forever to get to kill percentages, and even then, only opponents who totally screw up get hit by his kill moves. He either needs a REAL buff to gimping, or the ability to get opponents to kill percentages faster in order to make up for the his weaknesses (i.e. Gets comboed, dies fast, stale moves screws kill moves).

 

[Steeler]

he doesn't really die that quickly, he's got a good recovery and average launch resistance. plus he can run away and avoid hits pretty well with his speed and invincibility (i think) on the spring

 

[SaltyKracka]

He dies much earlier than he kills, though. And he's still gimpable.

Spring only has invincibility on the ground. And running away can't really help him that much, given the fact that if he doesn't attack, he's stalling, and if he does attack, his attacks are entirely predictable, interruptable, and punishable, even for someone like Ganondorf.

And another thing I forgot. He's juggleable. Even assuming that he uses spring to escape, he still has to come back down, and his only tool in that area besides airdodge is dair, which is still easily interrupted, or can just be allowed to go on through and get punished for it's horrible amounts of lag.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I think giving him a throw kill would be a bit much (seeing as how he can usually punish pretty easily with throws due to his ground speed), but I would like to see some angles added to his forward and back throws. It's seemingly a good thing for Sonic to get his opponent offstage, but fthrow and bthrow can be DI'd to a near vertical angle, and dthrow can always be teched (although whether or not it is depends on how good the opponent is). If fthrow and bthrow could throw people at a more horizontal angle I think it'd help with his gimping game (which is a rather large part of Sonic's game, even without the spring).

What if his B-throw was only as powerful as something like vBrawl Mario's B-throw?

Thus it KOs at like 160-175% near the edge

I mean seriously, Sonic's B-throw is currently a lot weaker than that. Meaning it never kills at all. And it doesn't even do that much damage.

 

[Rykoshet]

Consider that they are two different characters with different matchups that can switch at will.

"I counterpick Zelda."
"I counterpick <someone that counterpicks Zelda>."

*Match Starts*

*Zelda switches*
*Sheik Counterpicks the loser*

Unless the character that counterpicked zelda was marth, ike, meta, snake, etc etc etc.....

Note that I dont even find ike to be super amazing by any means but his biggest issue against sheik was losing a stock early to some dumb **** or getting locked, neither happen and he still has all of his tools against zelda including harassing the **** out of her recovery because din's still causes free fall

 

[Thinkaman]

Sorry I've been super busy (and still am); I will respond to Mit though since he's been waiting awhile.

What sort of defensive opponent are you talking about? Anyone with a sufficiently bad OoS game you can actually try to Raptor Boost into their shield and immediately jab. Agianst people lacking fast option above them, aerial Raptor Boost is also good assuming to pull back after hitting on block. Both these fail against spot dodging though.

U-tilt is also a surprising safe move; even in vBrawl this is one of Falcon's best moves and yet no one respects it. By my count it only has 17 frames of cooldown after the (massive) hitbox vanishes, which is mathematically fast enough that spot-dodging is not effective. The same goes for d-tilt, which has 21 frames. Of course this applies to jab too, which every Falcon should be doing all the time once they get close.

Once you are close range, both u-smash and d-smash are often safe on block. Up-B is a risky ace up your sleeve, which now does 23% and can KO.

Sorry, but back to other stuff. I hope this was helpful.

 

[Linkshot]

...bahahaha.

Sorry. Just thinking of good ol' community times.

Dual Falcon teams. Advanced Strat: Wall of Pain: Spam advancing uTilt.

 

[LordshadowRagnarok]

My balanced brawl signature has now derailed a thread about blue mages on FFXIclopedia forums.

>>Balanced Brawl

OH HELL YES!!

I might actually get back into SSBB now that that's out :mrgreen:

Wow o.o Balanced Brawl...

Now if only I had someone to play against xD

Looks like we have +2 converts.

 

[Zenjamin]

Is there any way that we can get DK to be able to use his DKpunch without going into tumble animation? Its not something that would at all unbalance him. Its just something that makes him a ton more fun, and there is really no reason for him not to tumble.

Using a DKpunch off stage.... you really cant put a price on it.



If it did make DK a bit too powerful (which I doubt) you could slightly nerf some of his other moves.
Just dont make DKs chargeable Knee put him into a helpless flail. It just doenst make much sense IMO.

 

[Mit]

Sorry I've been super busy (and still am); I will respond to Mit though since he's been waiting awhile.

What sort of defensive opponent are you talking about? Anyone with a sufficiently bad OoS game you can actually try to Raptor Boost into their shield and immediately jab. Agianst people lacking fast option above them, aerial Raptor Boost is also good assuming to pull back after hitting on block. Both these fail against spot dodging though.

U-tilt is also a surprising safe move; even in vBrawl this is one of Falcon's best moves and yet no one respects it. By my count it only has 17 frames of cooldown after the (massive) hitbox vanishes, which is mathematically fast enough that spot-dodging is not effective. The same goes for d-tilt, which has 21 frames. Of course this applies to jab too, which every Falcon should be doing all the time once they get close.

Once you are close range, both u-smash and d-smash are often safe on block. Up-B is a risky ace up your sleeve, which now does 23% and can KO.

Sorry, but back to other stuff. I hope this was helpful.

Thanks for the response! The kind of defensive players I was talking about are those typically with projectiles and disjointed hitboxes/larger range than Falcon. Like Falco. I'm thinking the Falco/Falcon matchup is still quite terrible for Falcon. Falcon is forced to approach due to laser spam, and when he gets up close, Falco's entire moveset just plain outclasses Falcon's. His jab game beats Falcons and breaks out of most of his sensible movestrings, and his disjointed aerials can usually break all of Falcon's aerials as well. His ground combat game easily trumps Falcon's as well. Matches right now seem to be laser spam > close combat **** until Falcon is put at a distance again > repeat.

Also, Falcon's got no approach options to lasers except to jump all the way over them, or SHAD until you get up closer to Falco (and when you get close to Falco you're usually still in trouble).

I'd imagine Ganon has similar troubles in this matchup (unless his down-b can go through lasers), although he can atleast make up for it with sheer power (making the few hits he makes count, or getting something like a good techchase off), and has some moves that outrange Falco's that he could maybe pull off with some good spacing.


And just to throw some other bad matchups out there, Falcon vs. Mario/Luigi/Marth, and some others I can't vouch for as well would be vs. Snake/G&W/Wario/Olimar. Didn't mention MK because I think MK's lack of range and nerfs make the matchup a good deal better. The ones I did mention though usually involve an opponent having a moveset/style similar to Falcon's but just plain better (Mario/Luigi/Wario), or having disjointed hitboxes and greater range whose camping and spacing is a nightmare for Falcon.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Metaknight's range is virtually equal to, if not greater than Marth's.

Just saying.

 

[G&W X]

I accidentally downloaded a stage off of wi-fi is there a way to delete it? :/

 

[Pierce7d]

I accidentally downloaded a stage off of wi-fi is there a way to delete it? :/

I heard a rumor that Nintendo was sending out a stage that you couldn't delete (possibly to counter stack smash).

That's pretty lame. I never played on WiFi, so it's not an issue for me. Apart from that, I still have homebrew. Still, I'm not sure what can be done about this at the moment.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

The solution is to set your Wii's internal clock forward in time (or just wait a day). This is normal behavior with stages from Smash Service.

To avoid this situation in the future (and to save bandwidth), turn off Smash Service.

 

[Pierce7d]

The solution is to set your Wii's internal clock forward in time (or just wait a day). This is normal behavior with stages from Smash Service.

To avoid this situation in the future (and to save bandwidth), turn off Smash Service.

Oh, so the stage is deletable after one day? Okay.

In other news, I haven't played lately, because my Wii froze and was acting super weird the last time I tried. I think my disc is even slightly scratched. I'm afraid to do any more damage to it, because it still works perfectly, but I am not using my SD card on my Wii anymore until I get another Brawl disc. I'll still be able to play with my friends that have it though. Balanced Brawl is about to become very popular where I live.

 

[Linkshot]

My Wii is slowly dying, too. :/

 

[Mit]

Metaknight's range is virtually equal to, if not greater than Marth's.

Just saying.

Yeeeah, I was trying to give that matchup the benefit of a doubt. It just seems like it's easier to run away from Meta Knight (even though his ground speed is faster than Marth). Although it's still extremely hard to punish a good Meta Knight for doing anything. Timing has to be spot-on with anything you do as his cooldown for his entire moveset is miniscule.

 

[Linkshot]

Don't forget that MK is 4th-lightest in the game, so Falcon will be killing him early, which means MK has to be careful, too.

 

[Shade_]

I just downloaded the game, and I thought it was an extremely good improvement over it's predecessor.

I have just one recommendation, and that is that Link (My Main), still has a terrible recovery. I already know that you can't affect things like distance of moves, but you managed to take Ike's free-falling animation out after side B. Couldn't you put something similar to give Link two up B chances before going into free-fall?

I am willing to argue that he is in need of a better recovery regardless of the power ups he has been given.

Link's main problem in the first place was being gimped. Any character with a sex kick, or multiple jumps can edge guard link relatively easily. Even more so now because now, all characters have adequate knock back in their ariel moves. Yes, link is usable, but any good MK, Rob, Jiggly Puff, DK, Kirby, DDD can just throw him off the side, to edge guard and knock off a stock.

I'm not accusing you guys of screwing up or anything, and I'm not trying to start a giant fight. You guys did an amazing job, I just think that link's main problem was still not solved.

 

[Craeter]

I'm not accusing you guys of screwing up or anything, and I'm not trying to start a giant fight. You guys did an amazing job, I just think that link's main problem was still not solved.

And ganon can still be outcamped. They can't change the physics of the game, only work with pre-existing data on each character's moves. To compensate they increase the damage and sometimes knockback of many of the lower tier's movesets. Honestly what can be done about Link's recovery? Ike had two options to recover and one left him helpless, Link only has his upB and tether, neither of which can be improved without changing the psychics.

My only real suggestion is to stay in the center of the stage and tech as often as you can or find a counterpick character, because I don't think Link's recovery can be improved with the current design of balanced brawl.

 

[JOE!]

Link is balanced by his recovery.

I wouldnt be surprised if he is now the BEST on-stage/ground character

 

[Lovely]

Do I still need to have an English disc for this code to work? );