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Dedede's chaingrab relies on what we call "weight," which is knockback resistance. While fall speed and weight often run parallel to each other, this is not always the case (Samus and Sheik are good examples of opposites). Fox falls fast and is "light," just like he was in Melee. So, no, it's not odd at all.oddly enough not Dedede, lol
Jesus Christ, talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill. =PI'm sure those outside the BBR will thoroughly enjoy our in depth discussion regarding the the subleties of gauging whether the tone of a composition is more "omg" or more "lmao."
Yeah very true!Edit:
Also, is it me, or is the D Tier (DK, Peach, Fox, Luigi, Wolf) only consisted of characters that actually would be really good, but have one or two get ***** matchups?
lol "That guy." That is a little funny now that you mention it.Yea, I know that, but I personally found it odd considering that Fox gets CG'd rather easily by Pikachu and ICs and that the guy who's known for his chaingrabs doesn't.
Not odd in the "omg why is that happening" sort of sense, but rather in the "lmao" sense, if you get my drift.
Zero Suit Samus and Top Tiers aren't particularly bad for Fox.Still, he has to deal with Sheik/Pik/Zamus and can struggle hard against MK/Falco and other top tiers.
Just put your sword in between him and you anytime he comes at you. There's nothing he can do.100% serious, I think Fox counters Metaknight 6:4. MK cannot camp Fox at all because of lasers, mixing up drill -> stuff, air dodge -> up tilt, and air dodge -> grab gives Fox a good way to get in on MK and punish him a lot of the time pretty strong, blocking MKs down smash gets him up smashed every time easily, and he combos him hard even if you smash DI the up tilts MK is still in a bad position. I think Fox is an extremely, extremely underrated character because they are not enough good Fox's. I have never played TKD, but some Fox at Apex2 almost beat me in pools, and probably would have won both matches instead of lost if he didn't fall into habits such as constanlty spamming up tilt after a drill or double jumping in the same spot or spamming up smash when I'm at kill % while I am just waiting for it and baiting it. I honestly think Fox has a clear advantage in this matchup if he plays it right.
Can that really be said of a character that gets reliably hard countered?Fox is hard to play though, but I think this character is A Tier.
I don't believe that Fox beats MK at all. He might do decently, but I still think that it is solidly in MK's favor.I also think Fox beats MK on most neutrals. In addition to everything Jason just said, Fox's often underlooked saving grace is his full hop escape. He can just full hop out of any pressure, and his jump height off a full hop is ridiculous (you will not hit him with SH ANYTHING). He also rises very quickly, and due to awesome FF speed, can punish most whiffs. This allows him to destroy vertical spacing battles, despite losing in more popular horizontal spacing. Not falling into habits as Fox, learning how to use your good close range, being able to stall in midair ridiculously while having the fastest falling speed, breakneck rising speed, and 3rd fastest Dash, makes this characters camp game STUPIDLY solid.
Fox is hard to play though, but I think this character is A Tier.
Fox isn't really hard countered by that many characters. Ice Climbers and Pikachu hard counter him but that's about it. Shiek is an evenish matchup for him and the ZSS matchup is most likely in his favor. I've played Nick Riddle a few times with Fox as I had picked him up for a while and it's pretty clear to see that he has the tools to beat her (pretty sure Nick agrees). ZSS landing the Dsmash chain on him is the only thing that really evens out the matchup.If he wasn't screwed over so badly by his hard counters, he would certainly be a candidate for high tier.
Zeton is awesome, *****es don't know about Zeton. They should.We have Zeton here. I'll go Pika on him when I'm feeling it. He did very well against Anther in tournament with Fox as well. I think fox is very underated. He racks up damage so **** fast, and has an early kill move (it's what, 8 frames?), that also has a pretty large hit box. Still, he has to deal with Sheik/Pik/Zamus and can struggle hard against MK/Falco and other top tiers. Fox mains really need to win the first match for fear of being counter-picked into one of those matchups. A few other characters can really give him a tough time as well. I think he's close to where he needs to be but could stand to go up a few spots as some skilled fox mains have proven hat even Sheik isn't impossible.
100% serious, I think Fox counters Metaknight 6:4. MK cannot camp Fox at all because of lasers, mixing up drill -> stuff, air dodge -> up tilt, and air dodge -> grab gives Fox a good way to get in on MK and punish him a lot of the time pretty strong, blocking MKs down smash gets him up smashed every time easily, and he combos him hard even if you smash DI the up tilts MK is still in a bad position. I think Fox is an extremely, extremely underrated character because they are not enough good Fox's. I have never played TKD, but some Fox at Apex2 almost beat me in pools, and probably would have won both matches instead of lost if he didn't fall into habits such as constanlty spamming up tilt after a drill or double jumping in the same spot or spamming up smash when I'm at kill % while I am just waiting for it and baiting it. I honestly think Fox has a clear advantage in this matchup if he plays it right.
I don't think Fox beats MK at all, but I agree with you and M2K in that he is VERY difficult to gimp and can wrack damage and kill extremely early. I think Fox vs MK is 50/50 or at worst a 45:55 disadvantage for Fox. It's a really close matchup and I agree that Fox is very under-rated. More on that below.I also think Fox beats MK on most neutrals. In addition to everything Jason just said, Fox's often underlooked saving grace is his full hop escape. He can just full hop out of any pressure, and his jump height off a full hop is ridiculous (you will not hit him with SH ANYTHING). He also rises very quickly, and due to awesome FF speed, can punish most whiffs. This allows him to destroy vertical spacing battles, despite losing in more popular horizontal spacing. Not falling into habits as Fox, learning how to use your good close range, being able to stall in midair ridiculously while having the fastest falling speed, breakneck rising speed, and 3rd fastest Dash, makes this characters camp game STUPIDLY solid.
Fox is hard to play though, but I think this character is A Tier.
Correct.Pika vs Falco is AT LEAST 65:35 Pika. IC is the same. AFAIK Marth is 55:45 with him.
Fox beats ZSS. Also, lol at the red. ZSS's d-smash hitbox is ****ing stupidly huge for no reason.You know I dunno about ZSS being such a huge problem for Fox.
The only problem is her dsmash, and that has pathetic range, is pretty telegraphed, and can be punished pretty easily if she messes up.
It does help screw with recovery on the ledge though.
Heh, why am I even talking about this?
inb4indeedTeranstfu
He also thinks it's even:I'd like to hear Larry's opinion on the Falco matchups... ;P