BBR Weekly Character Discussion #31: Captain Falcon

[Player-1]

you can sdi anything that has hitSTUN, helmet.

 

[lordhelmet]

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense because you SDI during hitLAG, Player-1.

If there's no hitLAG what are you going to SDI in? Like I said I'm not even sure so prove me wrong and I'll shutup.

 

[Player-1]

if you can't sdi nado then how do people escape it?


DERPDERP


btw hitlag is the person who's hitting the other character's lag (aka marth tipper fsmash, that laggy part when you tip it is hitlag)

so no, you don't sdi during hitlag helmet




and this is p3 too lazy to log off

 

[lordhelmet]

Fine you win go have some celebratory cake.

Edit: Lord Chair beat me to it but yeah hitlag is both for the attacker and the guy getting hit because you're both stuck in those frames.

 

[Zeallyx]

If I recall correctly you need to SDI nado downwards.

 

[Darky-Sama]

That's what I thought, too. I could never get a character to DI upward in it, but I'm just assuming that I did because Falcon pulled a knee out during it and flubbed him. I really need to take a better look at 'nado's physics. lol.

 

[Lord Chair]

False. You SDI during hitlag. Saying you can SDI during hitstun would mean that while flying away after being hit, you could SDI during all those frames on which you aren't capable of performing an aerial.

 

[Player-1]

no **** you i have cold pizza i'm celebrating with


cold pizza, a pregnancy test, and a coat hanger



chair you're a troll why are you even here gtfo mang

-p3

 

[Darky-Sama]

False. You SDI during hitlag. Saying you can SDI during hitstun would mean that while flying away after being hit, you could SDI during all those frames on which you aren't capable of performing an aerial.

^
Yeah, he's right. You're mixing up the terms hitlag and hitstun.

 

[Zeallyx]

So, one SDI's nado downwards, or?

 

[lordhelmet]

So, one SDI's nado downwards, or?

I haven't seen it done but I've heard you can. I'll probably test that later.

And Lord Chair beat me to it but I was gonna say that same thing I swear

 

[Zeallyx]

I haven't seen it done but I've heard you can. I'll probably test that later.

I read a thread not too long ago, about the ice climbers beeing able to get a grab in if MK nado'd by (S)DIing downwards.

Epic win for the ice climbers

semi-big win for falcon?

 

[lordhelmet]

I read a thread not too long ago, about the ice climbers beeing able to get a grab in if MK nado'd by (S)DIing downwards.

Epic win for the ice climbers

semi-big win for falcon?

Funny 'cause I heard Lain is the one that figured it out

And if it works well for Falcon (we're tall so it might not) then yes because that would render air nado almost useless and that's what ***** us.

 

[Lord Chair]

I believe it was proven not long ago that you cannot SDI most of the nado hits, just the one that pops you up in the beginning.

 

[Darky-Sama]

I believe it was proven not long ago that you cannot SDI most of the nado hits, just the one that pops you up in the beginning.

Was there a thread on this somewhere?
As in... a thread dedicated solely to it, or on their general discussion?

 

[Lord Chair]

Yeah someone known (DMG or something, don't recall really) made a vid on it. Completely forgot the name of the either the thread or the vid though.

 

[Darky-Sama]

It was KPrime according to this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kAX5O1ftpo

EDIT: I also realized why. It has no hitlag after the hits.
I'm going to assume that's why ZSS's forward smash so lulzy too.

 

[lordhelmet]

It was KPrime according to this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kAX5O1ftpo

EDIT: I also realized why. It has no hitlag after the hits.
I'm going to assume that's why ZSS's forward smash so lulzy too.

Everyone just got *****

 

[Zeallyx]

Everyone just got *****

Please elaborate

tl;dr: I dont get it

 

[teluoborg]

Lol guys you can get out of nado,it just has to be moving.
If it's moving down go up, if left go right, if right go left, if up get *****.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Well, yeah, but if you're playing in singles, I don't see why Meta Knight would be moving all over the place recklessly with the 'nado if you're already caught inside of it.

 

[Player-3]

positioning

 

[teluoborg]

Point is : unlike K prime's vid MK has to move to get you in.
And even if you're caught in the tornado often moves up and down.

 

[BigLord]

I've been away from smashboards for quite some time now, and the first thing I see is that movie. Thanks, Kprime, thanks...

Imma gonna train my secondary MK a lot more, now.

 

[Kinzer]

Sonic is disjointed but he has poor control over his pressure game compared to Falcon.

This will take some explaining, especially the underlined and bolded part.

Not insisting anything, I swear. I just want to see if there's anything to learn.

AFAIK right now Sonic has fake-outs, cancels, and some (guaranteed?) tech-chase set-ups.

Falcon has...?

... D***, I hate not being all that deeply knowledgeable about Falcon.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Not going against Sonic at all, but compare Falcon's ability to shield pressure, platform pressure and follow up with another attack while utilizing his fastfalling options to Sonic's own. Though Sonic's options are arguably better for tech chasing- his pressure options aside from his bair are rather poor.

Falcon can auto cancel a fast fall bair into a buffered dash grab / another aerial. He can auto cancel his uair into a tilt, grab, RAR bair, whatever else seems viable- personally I like charging a downsmash. If they hold up the shield, it'll break or get really, really pressured - rolling behind Falcon gets them punished and it's possible to punish spot-dodges. If they roll away from him, Falcon can safely use the downsmash and have time to react. Random shield pressure options with Falcon are awesome if you mix it up with the downsmash- because if the shield does break - free Falcon Punch. Which I've ended up performing countless times due to the same reason.

Sonic is more useful overall, but his pressure options aren't nearly as decent from my knowledge. His spindash can easily be grabbed if a person knows the timing. His attacks come out rather quickly but have a high cooldown time [like Falcon, but Falcon's aerials auto cancel better for pressuring]- making constant pressure difficult- and his grab is actually better than ours, so I can't say much about that one. He keeps characters limited with his pressure options, that's about it; other than that, they're easy to punish.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Sonic runs away better. Falcon kinda gets more reward for taking a few risks. Neither character has an easy time killing.

 

[BigLord]

I've played Sonic competitively for some time, and the reason I stopped using him is... I can't kill with him. I just can't.

So it's either me that sucks at using Sonic, or Falcon can KO a lot easier than Sonic. Compare killing moves.

 

[A2ZOMG]

They both suck at kills honestly, but Falcon objectively does have more legit KO setups. Only problem is either they kill at REALLY high percents, or they're probably set up by N-air, which has crap priority and requires godly precision to nail consistently. And then Falcon actually has some powerful and safe kill moves that are very hard to land on a cautious opponent, but still worth using due to their safety.

While Sonic...he just wants to land random stuff and hope it kills you.

 

[Chsal]

Offstage flubbed knee is pretty good for gimping.

 

[lordhelmet]

Offstage flubbed -> uair is very good for gimping.

Fixed .

 

[Laem]

double flubbed > edgehog ftw :D

 

[teluoborg]

Guys if you need anything more than one flub you're doing it wrong.

 

[Zeallyx]

Guys if you need anything more than one flub you're doing it wrong.

This ^

 

[ShadowLink84]

stuff

Um, Marth's Fsmash has cinematic hitlag, you nen it has regular hit lag where you can SDI it.

hitlag is basically the points where you are within the "i just got slapped" animation. The tornado however, only gives 1 frame of hitlag. you need 2 frames. 1 frame to put the input, the 2nd frame for it to occur. Since the tornado hits every 2 frames and has a hitlag of 1, you cannot SDI the tornado.

The reason people get out is due to DI which alters the trajectory, not the placement of the character, and so they escape during the initial and final hits of the tornado which have greater KB.

Not going against Sonic at all, but compare Falcon's ability to shield pressure, platform pressure and follow up with another attack while utilizing his fastfalling options to Sonic's own. Though Sonic's options are arguably better for tech chasing- his pressure options aside from his bair are rather poor.

Falcon cana pply pressure to the shield without being grabbed? Last I checked, even a crossup Uair still gets grabbed/punished due to poor shieldstun.
on the platfrm yeah, his Uair is sexy. I touch myself at night sexy.
I wish I had it, instead I use Fair.
in terms of direct shield pressure Sonic can actually lock someone within their shield.
down B~>grab=100% successful.
They get stuck in shieldstun.
So eh?

Falcon can auto cancel a fast fall bair into a buffered dash grab / another aerial. He can auto cancel his uair into a tilt, grab, RAR bair, whatever else seems viable- personally I like charging a downsmash. If they hold up the shield, it'll break or get really, really pressured - rolling behind Falcon gets them punished and it's possible to punish spot-dodges. If they roll away from him, Falcon can safely use the downsmash and have time to react. Random shield pressure options with Falcon are awesome if you mix it up with the downsmash- because if the shield does break - free Falcon Punch. Which I've ended up performing countless times due to the same reason.

i think you're overestimating the amount of shield stun. The oppoennt can always use an OOS option (outside of yoshi which makes Falcon's shield pressure game so much fun to use on him.).

As soon as they use an OOS option they can just toss an attack out, and because of how short ranged Bair is they don't really have to worry about being struck by it so much.

I have also never managed to crack someone's shield simply because they abuse their OOS options and I cant rush in without risking punishment.

Sonic is more useful overall, but his pressure options aren't nearly as decent from my knowledge. His spindash can easily be grabbed if a person knows the timing. His attacks come out rather quickly but have a high cooldown time [like Falcon, but Falcon's aerials auto cancel better for pressuring]- making constant pressure difficult- and his grab is actually better than ours, so I can't say much about that one. He keeps characters limited with his pressure options, that's about it; other than that, they're easy to punish.

Spindash is a TERRIBLE way to approach someone directly.
It is why one typically uses the aerial version of Down B for direct attacks. It has shieldstun, locks the person in for a grab, can be jump canceled making it perfectly safe. Can be canceled upon landing (LOL@snake'smines).

Sonic can use his Bair as well as a cross up Fair and still not be punished.
bair due to tipper foot meaning anything they toss out is avoided and then punished due to ******** dash speed.
Fair goes into a double jump and if used ina c ross up is just so sexy.

Either way, both characters have issues killing, but I honestly think Sonic has an easier time simply because of the fact that he does not risk nearly as much as Falcon does with his kill moves.


@BL: It is because Sonic works off of indirect pressure. Think like Lucario, he isn't necessarily moving directly to pressure you into a kill move. Sonic just waits and punishes.
I can't hellp but think Sonic is a faster, better version of Falcon, minus the epic knee.
IMO Fox stole Sonic's Usmash.
*******...

 

[BigLord]

That all made perfect sense, IMO... but wtf, Fox and Sonic's Usmash?

(also, good falcons also have to wait and punish, heh)

 

[Darky-Sama]

Oi, not even going to bother making a response to that right now.

@BigLord; Yes, a good Falcon should be punishing more than being stupid and running into things. He has the range and ability to pressure at close range, even though his options are limited and really bad. Falcon is never really safe, but I guess people just fail to realize how whole bait -> punish routine is suppose to be played out with him.

 

[BigLord]

Of course sometimes you SHOULD follow up, when you see you can KO someone.

i.e. when the opponent is returning to the stage and you can easily KO him with a uair (if your uair isn't very stale).

 

[Zeallyx]

Of course sometimes you SHOULD follow up, when you see you can KO someone.

i.e. when the opponent is returning to the stage and you can easily KO him with a uair (if your uair isn't very stale).

Whatever you do with falcon, it is a guess. (Aside from the select few real combo's' second hit)

Keep that in mind.

 

[Darky-Sama]

I'm not sure.

I've incorporated down throw -> knee on Battlefield now. I've already stated it in another thread awhile back, but it's one of the best punishing setups possible on that stage. If they don't tech, they can get kneed during the bouncing animation or however they decide to get up; an attack, roll or normal stand up, all punishable by the knee.

If they DO tech, you can land a knee if you time it properly, but chances are they'll tech and hold in the shield. If you wait, you can let them waste their shield a bit then follow up with a knee when you think they're going to drop it. Even if it DOES hit their shield, it has a chance of pressuring them off the platform, so you can follow-up with something else.

It's a win-win setup.