Best Sonic Stage

[R4ZE]

noway man. BF definately limits sonic a lot more than FD. regardless of how the user uses sonic. The bottom line is that BF forces you to play a certain way with soinc, while on FD you have the freedom to use HA and dair. walk away smashes, ascending bair kills.


For a lot of characters the platforms help, because u can hyphen smash kill... but sonic's hyphen doesent kill under like 200%, and his utilt doesent either...

I guess sonic still can abuse the platforms with his aerials, but honestly... so can every other character.. and plus, an approching aerial can be punished a lot easier than a hyphen or utilt when the target is on platform. Some characters can even hit under platforms! but sonic cant...

is it possible to make dair go thru platforms?

 

[Umby]

I can see standard issues of getting usmashed/utilted alot on BF, but I personally have no problems switching my play style a little bit. All it means is that it's harder to follow up on Spin Dash if it gets shielded.

 

[MalcolmM]

Battlefield...like i said like 2 months ago....is STILL amazing for sonic. it requires a different style of play...yes...but the current style of play isnt winning any tournaments so what does it matter? all these complaints about the dair and homing attack are because you dont play on the stage enough.

get over FD it has been said like 1000 times that it is good and i am glad that the whole world knows that. Now you can go to a tournament and get it banned...then your stuck. And smashville isnt that amazing for him either... its a neutral for a reason.

i also brought up brinstar 2 months ago in some counterpick topic and it went nowhere... -.-
Im gonna try for pictochat and PS1 (dunno why the hell ppl r calling it PT...) one more time...lets see if anyone will discuss it

Lastly...sonic blows so you better find a good counterpick that works for you. how is a neutral going to help you win with a severely disabled character? find a good stage that works for you. practice the unheard of stages.

 

[Tenki]

lol I like Smashville though. Aside from the stupid balloon that keeps somehow being perfectly in the way of my springs when I'm dropping them, it's very Final Destination-ish.

IMO every Sonic should learn to play on Battlefield, for the sake of playstyle. It breaks alot of bad habits lol.

However, I cheat and try to play on the edges as much as possible when playing on Battlefield.

Some cp ideas: Yoshi's island's edges can be used for airdash, meaning you can go Metal-Sonic invincible-spindash style and break through... anything. They can't grab you, they can't hit you (they can clang with you though XD). Hahahaha. Screw you, Metaknight infinite cape!

 

[R4ZE]

Wow. just wow...

Sonic is fine man, he pretty much has the same fight against most characters.. its cool if you suck and you cant win with sonic.. that doesent mean sonic sucks, it means you suck.

and FD is soncs best stage. done.

i never said i can't play on BF with sonic, i dont mind it at all and i play ALL the tournament levels VERY regularly, and i win often. but that still does not change the fact that sonic has the most freedom on FD.

there is no reason to counter pick with sonic, he only has a hard time vs 2 characters in the game.. and he doesent get shut out by anyone.


(wouldnt expect a wario main to know much of anything about sonic though, you probobly play against scrub sonics and dub him worthless because wario is 1 of those 2 good sonic counters)

 

[Tenki]

(wouldnt expect a wario main to know much of anything about sonic though, you probobly play against scrub sonics and dub him worthless because wario is 1 of those 2 good sonic counters)

he seconds Sonic, I believe.

 

[R4ZE]

and judging by what he has said, he is terrible at sonic.

 

[Umby]

there is no reason to counter pick with sonic, he only has a hard time vs 2 characters in the game.. and he doesent get shut out by anyone.

You have not played a good Peach.

Edit: Also, what MalcomM has said doesn't automatically qualify him as a bad player. He believes BF is a good Sonic stage due to his experiences on it. Hell, even I like BF more than FD for Sonic (though I wouldn't call it his best stage or anything). He further goes on to say that PS1 and Brinstar are possible counterpicks to give Sonic an advantage in battle. There's nothing wrong with that, so long as he can back up the reason why. He also admits the well known truth that Sonic indeed does suck.

 

[R4ZE]

see thats the thing... sonic doesent suck at all....

at worst sonic is mid-tier

sonic has so much going for him that every1 just ignores.

Battlefield...like i said like 2 months ago....is STILL amazing for sonic. it requires a different style of play...yes...but the current style of play isnt winning any tournaments so what does it matter? all these complaints about the dair and homing attack are because you dont play on the stage enough.

get over FD it has been said like 1000 times that it is good and i am glad that the whole world knows that. Now you can go to a tournament and get it banned...then your stuck. And smashville isnt that amazing for him either... its a neutral for a reason.

i also brought up brinstar 2 months ago in some counterpick topic and it went nowhere... -.-
Im gonna try for pictochat and PS1 (dunno why the hell ppl r calling it PT...) one more time...lets see if anyone will discuss it

Lastly...sonic blows so you better find a good counterpick that works for you. how is a neutral going to help you win with a severely disabled character? find a good stage that works for you. practice the unheard of stages.

where are there reasons in here? All he is doing is refering to things that he or other people have previously said.


i could question so many things in here that have no reasoning:
-how is sonic a disabled character?
-how is BF good for sonic?
-well clearly i dont know how to use HA and Dair on BF.(thats a lol).. so how do you?

and dair and HA both clearly can be hindered by platforms... not saying i cant use em at all. im just saying it limits the use slightly. which forces me into changing my game.

 

[Tenki]

- He might have meant disadvantaged. Regardless, even though we tend to find ways around priority problems, it's still the reason why we can't always go 100% aggro-style on people, and however we get around/outmanuever those moves is affected by the stage.

- You can "shark" F-airs through platforms to shield poke, and mess with airdodging people because airdodges are stopped by platforms. I guess U-air's nice for reaching and poking people above you too. It's much more aerial around the middle of the stage, ground/grabby elsewhere, and the edges aren't ever too far from you, so you can switch to a gimp game. I still think BF is a bad Sonic level, but those are the only reasons I can think of XD

- I almost never use HA on Battlefield unless it's out of like, a spindash combo in the middle of the stage, a landing feint (kinda like a double jump feint, but with HA) or, rarely, from the ledge/off the stage.
I use D-air on Battlefield for the occasional (movement) momentum changes and for select grounded spring setups (like above/under the side platforms)

Like I said before, it's a good idea to try to learn how to fight on BF because not only will it be an obvious counterpick on Sonic, but it helps iron out some bad habits that are usually formed by moves that get gimped by platforms.

 

[Umby]

He's mentioned Brinstar elsewhere and assumes that people remember, though in the high chance they didn't he would like for use to bring up discussion. Kinda vain, but that's what it looks like.

I suppose disabled is a wrong word for Sonic, tbh, but we get the meaning behind the word.

Also, there's nothing wrong with changing your game, and on BF, it's not that hard to do. Just have to cut down on approaching with Spin Dash/Charge a little more. After all, we like to stress that Sonic has to mix it up to keep the opponent guessing - what's a better application of that than changing your play style? Furthermore, the hindered use of Homing Attack or Dair shouldn't be that much of an issue, unless you absolutely rely on them for most of your pressure tactics.

Here's my take on Battlefield:

For most characters, the platforms limit the vertical movement you can use to avoid attacks, otherwise you can get juggled. Sonic is an excellent juggler. With this in mind, you can expect your opponent to try and stay on the lower level a bit more than they would on other stages, and you pressure them into getting grabbed.

Another crucial advantage of BF is that it hinders a good amount of projectiles that are often thrown out against Sonic. Sonic is a pretty mobile character and shouldn't really fear getting juggled that often from below the platforms. His only real threat are usmashes and tilts such as those belonging to Snake, R.O.B., or Peach. But even then, you're just using the platforms to avoid projectiles, in which case the opponent is most likely not near you (Maybe Peach if she Glide Tosses).

I also believe gimping on BF is a lot easier due to it having a deep bottom. Setups, like grab releasing near the edge, can often easily setup for a Nair or Bair that sends most opponents into a point under the stage where they can't recover. On places like FD, the opponent could be able to tech off the wall or wall jump back to the ledge.

Really, I just believe the platforms allow for opponents to be more pressured by Sonic's ground game than they'd normally be, and unlike with the platforms on Lylat Cruise, he still has room to move around if he needs it.

 

[MalcolmM]

I don't play wario.

I main sonic.

I dont play against scrubs.

I play people @ tournaments.

I place well @ tournaments.These tournaments include players who are known outside their state/region.

I have written said placings in the Sonic tournament results thread (aside from my most recent).

I think FD is slightly advantageous to Sonic against certain characters, but nowhere near his best stage.

I would like to get some sort of discussion started about PS1 Brinstar Rainbow Cruise and Pictochat going.

I am growing old with this undying optimism about sonic being a good character.

I dont bother with insulting people I have not played myself, you should try the same.

 

[TwinkleToes]

Nope, that is false, R4ZE.
Sonic sucks.
He is the worst character in the game.

:O

 

[MalcolmM]

Anyway....onto pokemon stadium.

I have taken a few people there simply for the mix-up.

The terrain changes are all somewhat neutral for him with a few quirks on each one.

The water is a personal favorite because of the 3 platforms for mix-ups and/or pressure. DI down if your on the right side being hit to the left and you will hit the windmill. DI to the left if you being hit upwards and you may still hit it. Up throw while under the windmill can lead to an f smash or some disgusting mindgames with the side-b cancel since it will force a get up attack or roll (unless they tech the hit against the windmill...duh).

The nature portion is pretty cool since it has those odd groupings of platforms and the tree branch. You can also do an FD-esque thing here if you really want to avoid the platforms its quite possible. The tree brach may be low enough to angle an F-smash up and connect but im not too positive on that. The nature portion also has some suddle bumps that make ur foward-b act weird like yoshi's.

The fire part is odd....but it has its advantadges as well. Sonic's D-smash is almost completely safe on the left side since it either pushes them onto the ledge...or it pushes you onto the ledge depending on whos closer. You can D-tilt through that part of the tree up-top. The burning house is a very low platform so you can often shorthop foward B to spook someone....cancel it with the shield and react from there. Angling the F-smash is also possible here I believe.

The REALLY campy part that everyone goes down to the bottom and waits on ( I hope you kno what part im talking about...i think its the desert?) isnt particularly bad for sonic. He doesnt have any infinites down there but he can get out of most things with the spring. And that corner on the right is a roller's doom since they dont go anywhere. So force your opponent to that side of the stage and take advantadge of that.

The neutral part is...just that. It's neutral. The general edges and stuff are perfect for a bair stage spike and getting characters with decent recoveries caught under that stupid lip that they added is a pretty reliable KO. It also has the beloved wall jump that people seem to be going crazy over recently.

In general, the stage is great for both playing defensive and keeping the pressure on. Sonic needs to do both in order to win so I am thinking this may be a good stage for him.

Your thoughts?
(Pictochat later yo...)
Discuss.

 

[R4ZE]

I insult people when they piss me off, and you sir have done so. . i think its just how you expect me to take all your statements as fact... despite them having no proof or reasoning... even support or any kind.

Umby, i respect your post and your reasons. It actually did shed some light and alter my opinion of sonic-BF.


MalcomM, im really sick of people saying sonic is terrible... its just not true, he has a big learning curve, and thats it. and yet again, your not giving me any reasons that sonic is bad. I mean tenki is not even saying sonic is terrible, yet he gives more evidence and reasoning to that point.


IIn BF, HA is usually only usable as a recovery, or if your really close you cna pull it out as a mind game... and of course after SD combos... HA can be used as a killing move sometimes if you chase them out and hit them with HA off screen.

but you definately cant use it if your above the platforms.. because you hit a major delay that allows you to be punished hard. Dair, probobly can be used in BF, mainly to go between platforms fast and get to the ground, but its not as friendly as being able to up-b from ground level and then dair into no delay. but i'll admit to you tenki, probobly not a good habit anyway. sonic can find more use to his u-tilt on bf as well.

 

[Tenki]

MalcomM, im really sick of people saying sonic is terrible... its just not true, he has a big learning curve, and thats it. and yet again, your not giving me any reasons that sonic is bad. I mean tenki is not even saying sonic is terrible, yet he gives more evidence and reasoning to that point.


IIn BF, HA is usually only usable as a recovery, or if your really close you cna pull it out as a mind game... and of course after SD combos... HA can be used as a killing move sometimes if you chase them out and hit them with HA off screen.

Oh yeah, HA tends to set you up for an opponent to Fsmash your landing if you don't place it right/are fighting one of the "repellant" characters. I'd rather just use it to set up a pseudo homing stall (2-3 HA's) and recover from there.

I don't have to say that Sonic is a terrible character. He just is. lol

However, Sonic as a character, despite his faults, has tools for good players to take advantage of. Sonic's a statistically bad character but I outplay people with him anyway, so it's all good.

So anyway, someone go test the Sonic>Wario infinite off a platform somewhere like in BF.

 

[TwinkleToes]

I like PS1 mostly because it offers some protection vs projectiles. People like Falco, Wolf, R.O.B. etc. can play really gay on levels like FD.

 

[Umby]

Well R4ZE, consider Mewtwo in Melee. If you watch vids of Taj or Dguy on youtube, and see that they can do well against a number of opponents, you'd probably say that Mewtwo doesn't suck as a character either. The fact is that his attributes and matchup statistics as compared to the rest of the cast force him to the low tier domain. Also, if you look at what really counts in winning a match in Brawl (i.e. range, spammable moves/projectiles, moves that kill at lower percentages), you'll see that Sonic is lacking in that area.

So basically, a character's worth lies in his initial attributes and comparison to the rest of the cast. If said character has special techniques that change the game, of course that will also affect their worth. When a good player uses a "bad" character and does well with him, that just means he is working hard to win, minimizing his mistakes, leaving fewer openings to be attacked, and constantly capitalizing on the opponents mistakes and defensive holes. It doesn't make that character any better than he already is. And right now, Sonic is disadvantaged to a lot of members of the cast, as well as he has a lower good matchup/bad matchup ratio than a lot of other characters.

 

[TwinkleToes]

Umby, your words would sound like wisdom but for your misspelling of the word "effect."

I therefore disregard everything you just said and condemn you as a noob.

 

[R4ZE]

Mewtwo was a beast in melee. he could F*ckin teleport! lol


ok well thats a grand leap away from "omg son1c suhks no khillin moovz"
plus u didnt tell me that i need to pick up a second, which is against my religion.

I'll give u props and shut up =)

 

[Umby]

Umby, your words would sound like wisdom but for your misspelling of the word "effect."

I therefore disregard everything you just said and condemn you as a noob.

Get the fuck out of my thread.


jk ilu <3<3<3

 

[da K.I.D.]

ok heres my thoughts:

1. rase, thankyou for shutting up. just dont take ppl so seriously, its the internet for christ's sake

2. people shouldnt be using HA enuff for it to get blocked by platforms on any stage regardless. if you use HA so much that you have to change the number of times you use it just to play on BF youre proly using it too much anyway.

3. memphis, i hear haterade is on sale down at Aldi, 2 gallons for free.99. dont say i play against scrubs. my doubles partner 3 stocked OBM at the MA tourney he went to the sat. b4 last.
also, you got second to last place at esticle, you are garbage in my eyes now, i used to just mess with you, just for lulz,cause i thought you were good, but when you go to a double elimination tourney and lose more matches than you win, you are a scrub, you now have my permission to shut the hell up and get off my jock. i sandbagged the hell out of the last tourney i went to, because i ended up being 45 min late for work and i still did better than you did at your last tourney. i am now certain you are well on your way to becoming an hero, and i am also certain that i will do nothing but help you along this path until you commit the act.
and for those of you that dont get it, read this http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/An_hero
4. the only time i play pokestadium is when i counter pick D3, just b/c nobody ever sees the infinite coming. but after your analysisi might try it with sonic.

5. in my opinion, picto is a horrid stage for sonic, because nobody who knows how do DI will ever die on that stage.

6. i will now be practicing on brinstar. which is funny, cause it was my CP in the hole in melee with ganon, so itll be weird if i start CP'ing it again for sonic

 

[Umby]

ok heres my thoughts:

1. rase, thankyou for shutting up. just dont take ppl so seriously, its the internet for christ's sake

3. memphis, i hear haterade is on sale down at Aldi, 2 gallons for free.99. dont say i play against scrubs. my doubles partner 3 stocked OBM at the MA tourney he went to the sat. b4 last.
also, you got second to last place at esticle, you are garbage in my eyes now, i used to just mess with you, just for lulz,cause i thought you were good, but when you go to a double elimination tourney and lose more matches than you win, you are a scrub, you now have my permission to shut the hell up and get off my jock. i sandbagged the hell out of the last tourney i went to, because i ended up being 45 min late for work and i still did better than you did at your last tourney. i am now certain you are well on your way to becoming an hero, and i am also certain that i will do nothing but help you along this path until you commit the act.

I see sum kontradictions sumwhar. :o

 

[MalcolmM]

Esticle is a low blow...

 

[TwinkleToes]

I see sum kontradictions sumwhar. :o

Umby, can you not read? THE MAN SAID TO STOP TAKING THINGS SO SERIOUSLY.

Btw, you're a poopy face :o

 

[Boxob]

The best stage is the side of my face.

Flat, smooth, and pretty.

 

[da K.I.D.]

yea, ur right i did contradict myself, and im big enough of a man to admit my mistake, but im tired of this dude, staying on my balls for no good reason. aint no need to straight up attack me all the time... but i am taking this too seriously, despite the valdity of my statement.
But forreals, its funny how much smack he talk, for placing so badly in a tourney that everyones gonna hear about. lol, homeboy got torched.
you know what it is, he took it over the line when he dissed on the skill of the people that i play with. my doubles partner 3 stocked the dude who got 7th at esticle. that alone verifys the skill of anyone that i endorse.
unfortunately, he adds a good amount to these boards, and i try to respect his opinion, but at this point its pretty evident that he should stop trying to play with good people and just reserve himself to testing theorys for those of us that are good, kinda like tenki does.

BTW tenki, U are de awesoem sause!!

 

[TwinkleToes]

Too much e-drama D:

 

[da K.I.D.]

=(

10roundhousekicks

 

[memphischains]

If my memory recalls, you were the first to say anything.

Second, winning one match does not validate anything, it's consistency.

The last thing I'm going to say is that you, again, contradicted yourself. You actually do play with scrubs, and then ask me not too rag on you about it, then directly after tell me not to play with good people. Those "good" people are all my friends, OBM, SiYkO, ASL?, KDJ, Nuro, Fatal Matt, Dazwa, Darc, and everyone else who places well over here.

It's not like you were even at Esticle, so you had no idea what was going on.

 

[The_Dyne]

My favorite stage to play on as Sonic is Corneria. Easy vert kills.

 

[da K.I.D.]

If my memory recalls, you were the first to say anything.

Second, winning one match does not validate anything, it's consistency.

The last thing I'm going to say is that you, again, contradicted yourself. You actually do play with scrubs, and then ask me not too rag on you about it, then directly after tell me not to play with good people. Those "good" people are all my friends, OBM, SiYkO, ASL?, KDJ, Nuro, Fatal Matt, Dazwa, Darc, and everyone else who places well over here.

It's not like you were even at Esticle, so you had no idea what was going on.

if i remember correctly you were the one who made a thread whose only contents were
"KID is gay"
i never said the ppl i play with are scrubs, i defended my friends when you said that they were bad by saying that my friends have played against yours and won. and through the transitive property, that i am better than you. i also never told you who to play and not play with. i just said get off my jock, and dont bag on my area.

lastly, i dont have to have physically been at esticle, thats why the results are posted on the internet.

My favorite stage to play on as Sonic is Corneria. Easy vert kills.

i really need to cp corneria more often for this fact only. i would but i just get scared of getting wall infinited/comboed

 

[Umby]

Left edge on Corneria is kinda broken for stuff like Sonic bthrow and set knockback moves.

 

[memphischains]

KID you must be joking me.

You were the one who made that thread that BT should never play Sonic again, and my response is that your gay, which is valid. Who makes a thread bashing on someone for no reason?

Mine was because you were being a poongay for making a thread like that.

And I'm defiantly NOT "jocking" on NY, NY is legit, and you are not. I am willing to go to NY to shut you the **** up. I know I'm better than you, it's no question. You have probably never traveled more than a half an hour to go to a tournament.

Esticle was was obscene, btw. You have no idea what your talking about. Clearly, you didn't understand what I said before with your ****ing idiot brain. You WEREN'T there, so you have nothing to say about it.

I know you didn't say you play with scrubs, but it's pretty apparent. You were the one that started all of this **** for no reason, and now your johning about the situation. I'm not on your ish for no reason.

 

[da K.I.D.]

lol i told BT i wasnt being serious, and that i was joking with him, and the only reason i did that was because i was bored and that was the first good ike i had seen in a long time.

ok on the real, i dont hold grudges, poongay is still making me lol as im typing this.

i couldnt travel for tourneys, i still cant now cus i dont have my own car. but that doesnt matter because i have tons of great ppl here playing with me right now. and if you think youre such hot shisnit, come to our biweekly next saturday, ill even MM you for all the money it takes you to get to NY. ill give you directions, times, the whole shabangabang. if you really want to shut me and my ppl that badly. just dont punk out now

 

[memphischains]

gimme the info

EDIT, - I don;t think I'm hot at all, you just ****ing keep this going

 

[da K.I.D.]

ill find all the specifics for this tomarrow, i should be sleeping right now, i gotta work tomarrow.

and i keep this going because i actually have a few friends that want to stomp you out

 

[memphischains]

well those kids should be speaking themselves. you john as much as inui

 

[BrianTheLion]

I'd say BF because low ceilings for up throw up-b up air or up throw up air

 

[Barge]

Greenhill :D, No not really.