Event - EVO 2013 (Breast Cancer Research Drive) Brawl at Evo 2013

[Strong Badam]

good luck

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Instead of wondering Melee v Brawl, seriously argument is stupid preference is preference drop it, we should be wondering why an unfinished game has almost 3 times the money in donations than Melee has.

 

[Biz_R_0]

Just like everything else they do; Autism.

 

[Revven]

Instead of wondering Melee v Brawl, seriously argument is stupid preference is preference drop it, we should be wondering why an unfinished game has almost 3 times the money in donations than Melee has.

It's ****ing MLP. A bunch of the people who don't even play it are donating for it, just like a ton voted for it. **** sucks. =\

Side note: I've actually heard the game is... a solid fighter... but even so, it's unfinished. Despite that, however, if MLP stays in first the second place game will still get in for Evo.

 

[GHNeko]

This is what I see happening, with a "No" to the "great for 'us' all" part.

I don't despise Melee in the slightest, but I'm questioning why people have started claiming that Brawl players donating to Melee helps them too. Don't pull this "Smash Community" stuff. We all know that we're separated.

All of us here know better than any others that Brawl and Melee are not the same game. Exposure for one =/= Exposure for the other. I don't see what's making you guys think that Melee getting in the spotlight will help Brawl in some way. This "Competitive Smash" thing will be dropped for "This is Melee". On EVO's page, people will see "Super Smash Bros. Melee". If asked, "What game is this?" in a stream, melee players will say "This is Super Smash Bros Melee".

Do you really think someone is going to go out of their way to mention brawl?

Furthermore, if melee makes EVO, what's stopping the melee community from trying to separate from Brawl even farther? "We were at EVO" is even more leverage if that becomes the case, and most of the players don't think much of brawl anyway.

Before I get labeled for trolling, I am 100% serious. Keep in mind you're asking Brawl players to help a community that has treated them poorly in the past, and one that would have no urgent incentive to give back to the community that helped them, along with the fact that they hate said community's game in the first place.

I'm fine with melee trying to get in. Just don't try to bait brawl players into helping you with some false hopes.

@Big, I think you're correct on your fears, actually. If you like Melee, it's NOT a bad decision to donate. I do think it will hurt Brawl though in the long run. That's for you to weigh though.

Regardless of how people treat the aftermath, Melee is still considered Smash bros. If you browse enough TFG sites, when a Melee/Brawl article get put up, 90% of the TFG players all refer to it as Smash. Only around a quarter of people go out of their way to specifically mention one game or another.

Regardless of how minute the effects are, or how indirect the effects are. When one smash game is features, the other will ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS get at least a quick glance.

That's the main point I'm getting at. The games are always looked at together more often than not OUTSIDE this community.

And as a result exposure for one is exposure for another.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It's ****ing MLP. A bunch of the people who don't even play it are donating for it, just like a ton voted for it. **** sucks. =\

I know right?

Like I don't even hate the show but man that fanbase dedication. >_>

 

[Biz_R_0]

I actually like the show, I just can't stand them. More annoying that 5 year old girls.

 

[Vinylic.]

It's actually appealing to me. I've been willing to try that game out for sometime, but I never thought it would be at Evo, lol.

As for this discussion, Apex was hype. Brawl was hype, and melee was hype. One or both, it'll still support our community and what we do here. The only problem here is how people reflect over brawl and how much they hate it instead focusing on the main community, which everyone believes it's divided. That's pretty much my own thoughts here, so the solution? Tell them it's for the smash community, specifically, the whole community.

 

[BSP]

Regardless of how people treat the aftermath, Melee is still considered Smash bros. If you browse enough TFG sites, when a Melee/Brawl article get put up, 90% of the TFG players all refer to it as Smash. Only around a quarter of people go out of their way to specifically mention one game or another.

Regardless of how minute the effects are, or how indirect the effects are. When one smash game is features, the other will ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS get at least a quick glance.

That's the main point I'm getting at. The games are always looked at together more often than not OUTSIDE this community.

And as a result exposure for one is exposure for another.

I just hope everyone follows through with this smash community mentality if melee makes it.

Anyway

MLP, how does it work?

 

[GHNeko]

I for one, have always supported the Brawl community. I poke lots of fun at the games competitive value and even state my distaste for it, from a competitive viewpoint, but I give it credit when credit is due and I still take the time to watch it every now and then, as well as actively claim that it's a great party game. I know I was strapped in for Apex 2013 GFs. I give respect to most players (ie the ones who aren't ****s) just like Melee.

I'll always pick Melee or P:M over Brawl, but I'll never go out of my way to intentionally NOT pick Brawl because it's Brawl.


But regardless, that's not what this thread is for.

 

[Pierce7d]

Important things worth mentioning

MLP is still in Alpha, and is it is currently not thought that it will be prepared in time for EVO. I have heard that MLP has dropped from the race.

All Brawl players who abandon love for Melee because there are idiots in the Melee community are fools themselves. Donkey Kong Country 2 is my favorite game. Does that mean I stop liking/playing Donkey Kong Country? No. Does that mean I'm going to ignore DKC3 or DKCR? No. And no matter how many butthurt people argue DKC1 is the best because it's original and hence DKC2 sucks, it's still going to be my favorite game, AND I'm still going to love DKC.

While it's no secret that the Melee community could clean up their attitude towards Brawl, that's not really something which is relevant at the time being. Did you not play Melee as children with your friends, and love it with all your little heart? Do you truly not find Melee hype? For those youngins amongst you who did not have the blessing to experience Melee, I pity you, but I assure you, those days spent on the Cube were good times indeed. For those of you who know better, consider the following:

Melee is currently leading the poll. You have a reasonable large chance at seeing Melee at EVO. If you just straight up ignore the "fued" with Brawl for a minute, ask yourself, "Do I want to see Melee at EVO". If yes, then who cares about the ****ing Melee community?

By that same token, if you have no particular love for Melee, but you want to see Brawl at EVO, donate towards that.

It is common knowledge that it has long been my wish for the Smash Community to be united, and accepting of others. There are lots of really dumb things about Brawl, and there are lots of dumb things about Melee, but instead of focusing on that and bashing each other, we should hold true to ourselves, and show tolerance.

 

[Gea]

Mad respect, Biz.

 

[Pierce7d]

On a second note, and even more on topic with the OP. I was talking with UltraDavid last night, who was talking with Keits (one of the heads at SRK) and Nick Allen (one of the heads at IPL) today, and it's a common consensus that Brawl sets take too long. Last night, Apex finished at 4am. Top 8 apparently took 6 hours. This is not really acceptable if you want your game to be commercialized. This isn't an attack on Brawl. This is simply food for thought because we're not talking about Brawl being an amazing game, we're talking about Brawl being at EVO.

I HUGELY recommend, like I always have, that you all reconsider two stocks as a tournament format. If Brawl is at EVO, then faster paced matches will be to your benefit. In terms of the effect on the meta, ZSS, Wario, and Pokemon Trainer will get a buff, but this is not really a bad thing in a MK/IC dominated format.

Best of luck to both games being featured at EVO, and if you're gonna put money down on something, follow your heart. If you have love for Melee, show it. If you have love for Brawl, show that too. More love, less hate.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I believe the longer matches were the MK dittos while other matches weren't that long in contrast.

I remember last night Salem v Mikeneko being pretty fast pased.

Well that and the fact Brawl waited for Melee to finish so they could stream the entire top 8 on the main stage over doing it on Chibo's set-up. >_>

 

[Gea]

I believe the longer matches were the MK dittos while other matches weren't that long in contrast.

I remember last night Salem v Mikeneko being pretty fast pased.

In context of other games I'm pretty sure those sets were still long. Hell, Melee has long sets by lots of standards. KoF has long sets. But Brawl's sets are LONG.

For example game 1 was still roughly four minutes long. If that's pretty fast paced. A best of 5 taking just over half an hour is REALLY fast for Brawl, but it's still a long time for one set. Their last game was basically 6.5 minutes long. MK isn't the only character that can take a long time.

But this really isn't the thread for this discussion.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I play league of legends so I'm used to seeing long sets, leagues set can be around 3 hours long if not more.

Well that and another reason it took til 4am was the fact Brawl waited for Melee to finish so they could stream the entire top 8 on the main stage over doing it on Chibo's set-up, and extra projectors were overheating. >_>.

Idk, like I understand and like streaming it all but doing each set one by one is partly why it took a while.

 

[Pierce7d]

League tournaments have far less entrants, and we still mad when they finish at 4am.

I also play League. I don't think Brawl is bad because it's not a hyper aggro game. I think that if we're going to try and blend into the FGC (which is what going to EVO is all about), then you should try not to have ridiculously long sets.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You realize doing the top 8 1 by 1 on the main stage on live stream contributed to that right? In addition to waiting for Melee to end to use that over Chibo's set-up? Or just not using the multiple other set-ups that were around to play on.

Like again I respect wanting to keep hype by streaming a lot but I really think they should have built around that time and also not completely halted the Brawl bracket. only to do it one by one if time was a concern.

That said, APEX didn't care, if we want time to be managed more it can be done via not streaming every match, if not going to two stocks is an alternative, but whether that improves gameplay or not really isn't an easy tell.

 

[Osennecho]

League tournaments have far less entrants, and we still mad when they finish at 4am.

I also play League. I don't think Brawl is bad because it's not a hyper aggro game. I think that if we're going to try and blend into the FGC (which is what going to EVO is all about), then you should try not to have ridiculously long sets.

I'd hate 2 stocks. Because if you SD once, you are done. I'd rather a stream always be going have some people record key matches separately if possible and upload those later on their channels or a main shared brawl channel. And although top 8 was amazing the top 4 could streamed individually rather than top 8 to save more time. Furthermore, the timer could be made 6 minutes. There'd be a whole lot more timeouts and the meta game would chance, but it'd change less than it would from 2 stocks. These are just my preferences though. And brawl would have ended ~an hour earlier if not for pausing everything for melee GF.

 

[Gea]

That's true, but Brawl GF that did not reset or have any time outs was 40 minutes. Had it reset or had time outs it could have easily taken over an hour. It isn't only Brawl's fault the tournament ended when it did, no one is suggesting otherwise, but the game still takes too long compared to other games.

 

[Revven]

Stream time for every game is important. Sometimes, though, when it's getting really late for a tournament the TO might opt to just stream Top 4 instead and go through some of Top 8 while the other game is finishing up. Maybe that's what Alex Strife should have done instead of holding the bracket up when they did.

Either way, corners have to be cut somehow (whether it's in-game stock count, the in-game timer, or how many sets are streamed for the Finals), and I'm surprised Alex Strife kept it going until 4 AM. That's a bit ridiculous, imo.

 

[t3h Icy]

I'd hate 2 stocks. Because if you SD once, you are done..

So then don't SD, duh.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I will admit brawl does take a bit mire time to complete reguardless.

 

[zmx]

2 stocks is definitely ideal for Brawl. I agree completely with Pierced.

If you SD or are down by a lot, at any given time you only need to take 2 stocks. That's actually feasible unlike being 3 stocks down which unless you a playing MK or Icys, is almost impossible to catch back up.

I think we'd see a lot more combacks, far faster sets, less timouts and overall better a better spectator game for everyone if the community stuck to 2 stocks.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Lucario can catch up being that far down, lol Trela v ally.

 

[Djent]

What about Juice.Gaming's 1 stock 3-minute Bo5 idea?

 

[ChKn]

I have no problem supporting either game. Both games have large enough communities to be able to sustain support, with many players pooling into both communities. If Brawl gets a decent amount of support, while Melee gets to be the 8th game (or vice-versa), I'll be happy with that. I'm not going to worry about petty **** like Brawl vs. Melee.

Also, In the event that Brawl is the final game, the EVO staff will probably just do a Top 4, considering there are seven other games that have to be shown on the main stage in the course of a day (assuming they'll do every main game in one day). However, some modification to the ruleset (2 stocks, lower timer) should be considered at least as a precaution (lack of setups, something goes horribly wrong, etc).

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

People tried that a few times, it flopped pretty bad.

 

[Biz_R_0]

I hate 2 stocks so much, there's almost no margin for error and "first stock = game" is even more of a problem here. The only issue it solves it time while exaggerating pretty much every other problem, and if time is really too big of a problem, start early and don't stream every single match in top 8 (or just have a different stream, we probably would've gotten to losers finals by 1 EST if they stayed on Clash).

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I'd donate money if I actually had a bank account.

 

[King~]

im donating 10 today and more when i get payed again.

i also think that if brawl got in they should just stream top 5 or 4 and only make winners, losers, and grand finals bo5. i mean KOF also takes an a decent amount of time, i feel its close to a similar pacing to brawl when the matches are back and forth and not runaways or OCVs. also they arent streaming all the games on one day this year, theyre doing some saturday and the rest sunday.

 

[MasterHavik]

Can Brawl catch SG? Not really...

 

[Osennecho]

Can Brawl caught SG? Not really...

He might have meant in the future, because if melee makes it in smash in general will probs become a regular for at least one of the games.

 

[MasterHavik]

He might have meant in the future, because if melee makes it in smash in general will probs become a regular for at least one of the games.

Oh yeah...but the thing is....Brawl is not good dude. Most people play Brawl because it's a watered down version of meele. People like ChrisG or Noel Brown can ya that.

 

[UltiMario]

What at comes down to at this point is that Brawl isn't going to get in at this point unless some rich people come in and donate like $4000+ for it out of the blue.

Looks like we really just need the Brawl donations just to go to Melee instead so they don't go to waste. Getting Smash at evo period is the most important.

 

[MasterHavik]

True dat dude.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Some of the posts in this thread are really sad to read, to be honest I don't expect any Brawl player to donate for Melee because really the Brawl community has received so much plain **** from the Melee community. I always wanted that Smash community could be one big family but Melee players really need to stop bashing Brawl. It makes me really happy that Brawl players voted for Melee on the Facebook poll and some have even donated for Melee to be in EVO. To be honest I don't think Melee community deserves that but I'm happy that Brawl community is showing support to Melee even after all the **** you've had to deal with.

 

[MajorMoses]

Just signal-boosting that we are in a lot of trouble against Skullgirls right now.

https://www.wepay.com/donations/evo2013-ssbm

Those of you who aren't adverse to donating for us, we'd appreciate the help!

 

[Djent]

What an answerrr!

Anyway, considering giving money to Alex Strife. You know, so we can have APEX again.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Oh yeah...but the thing is....Brawl is not good dude. Most people play Brawl because it's a watered down version of meele. People like ChrisG or Noel Brown can ya that.

I almost regret donating to melee when I keep reading things like this.