BRAWL+ Character Ratings

[JOE!]

cool

Seeing as Bowser is the biggest sprite, but not *that* much heavier than snake....is it possible to make him heavier? (biggest=hit much more....and that doesnt help)

 

[Shell]

It's funny you should ask about Bowser. He's actually lighter than Snake right now in an effort to make him less comboable.

My advice to you is to check out the plussery thread, study the changes we've made, keep those in mind, and then play a bunch of matches before you suggest any additional changes to characters, as how good certain characters are (and in what ways) has changed significantly from vBrawl.

 

[Swordplay]

I like the new look.

I think you need to highlight the F's as well as the A's.

We need to add the rest of the characters in.

So far, Everybody has at least 1 A except Ness, Lucas, Ivy, and Link (who still sucks (seriously a higher second jump would fix almost all his remaining problems))

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Everybody's shield can eat a whole mach tornado in Brawl as long as they tilt their shield up...Fortress is good OoS i will admit but Marth's Up B is beastly and MK has SOOOO many options OoS. Better versions than Bowser anyways...maybe there was some code that made Bowser better OoS or something?

Actually, he can eat almost 2 XD.
He does not need to tilt his, and even then, he still has plenty of shield left to block more attacks.

I am not sure about in Brawl+ though.

 

[GHNeko]

List is updated and redone. And I helped. <3

 

[JOE!]

It's funny you should ask about Bowser. He's actually lighter than Snake right now in an effort to make him less comboable.

My advice to you is to check out the plussery thread, study the changes we've made, keep those in mind, and then play a bunch of matches before you suggest any additional changes to characters, as how good certain characters are (and in what ways) has changed significantly from vBrawl.

Ill have to get Brawl+ first

anywho, on the bowser...in fact just the combo concept

In the SSE, you could get stickers that give "flinch resistance", this made an effect where you could just eat an attack and get no Kb, and no interruption of your attacks

Is it possible to add an effect like this? Even if bowser is less comboable with lighter weight, wouldnt he be easier to KO?

 

[Shell]

Sort of. This is why I said you should check out the changes we've already made...

Another one of Almas's codes is called "Bowser's thick skin" or "Bowser doesn't care." This reduces the damage Bowser takes by .9x - .4, where x is the damage of the attack. This helps him tank by shrugging off damage.

Get yourself filled in on the changes and install Brawl+. A couple google searches will have you all squared away. PM me if you have specific questions or hop on the IRC channel.

http://www.gamesurge.net/chat/BrawlPlus

 

[Shadic]

...Where's Pit?

 

[Shell]

A lot of characters are missing, including Pit. We're waiting on knowledgeable dudez to come help us out. Do you see any of your mains/secondary absent? Give it a shot, then.

 

[matt4300]

I feel like that chart needs a catagory for strait of kill moves. Not just comboed finishers. Some chars have very good low % fast kill moves that cant be comboed into but are still great killing options and that has an effect on the chars ability to finish the job.. like lucases stick.

 

[Shell]

I was thinking exactly that.

*Whop!*

 

[Swordplay]

Not all the characters are up but they will be soon :D/

Time to sound off on who needs major buffs (based on this thread)

After doing some research there are 2 characters that stick out as "not viable" in any sort of way and need major buffing.

They are Bowser and Link. Bowser 2.2 offense and defense, and Link have, 2.2 defense and 2 offense. Both have No offense of defense stats. There complete crap. The third worst is at at least 2.6 (thats a big gap) (By this standard bowser and Link are in thier own Crap tier)

(average offense and defense are 3.5 and 2.9 respectively)

for bowser.....Make tilts faster and he becomes better. He can get somebody offstage and attempt a gimp.
maybe if his air lag reduction was 25 he could get down safer


For Link....He needs only 2 things. 1. An up buff in KB. He desperately needs it because he can't really kill with anytihng but dair at lower percents and hes suppose to since he can't edge guard at all.

Link also needs a higher second jump. This in itself fixes 70% of is problems which include continuing to get gimped easily and slightly extending his combo range.

Things that would help but may or may not be necessary, Lowering the KB on his D-throw would also help. Increasing speed and reducing KB of his f-tilt. Increase speed of d-tilt as a combo starter. (or fix Links d-tilt so it can actually spike)


Somewhat off topic
I must also say as a person who mains samus as well, tether grabs blow. they should get like a 1.2 speed up after grab attempt.


Edit: my conversion was F=1 D=2 C=3 B=4 A=5

 

[CountKaiser]

Does anyone think we need to do something about D3? I know he seems good, and that this chart isn't final, but he has 5 F's. That's a bit ridiculous.

Also, as expected, MK is ridiculous. If he were easy to combo as well as easy to kill, that'd probably balance him out quite nicely.

 

[Shadic]

Link does need an increase in knockback. Probably for all of his Smashes. They suck. Seriously. And perhaps his Fair as well.

 

[GHNeko]

edit

10failuresagain

 

[CountKaiser]

Waddle dees can be used to approach?

 

[GHNeko]

edit

10failures

 

[Ratatat]

I tried finding it for so long but I saw a code yesterday on a thread about turning lucario's color red, and am having trouble finding it again. would anyone happen to know what I'm talking about?

 

[GHNeko]

I tried finding it for so long but I saw a code yesterday on a thread about turning lucario's color red, and am having trouble finding it again. would anyone happen to know what I'm talking about?

Wrong thread.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=175765

 

[Nibbles 2]

Ahh, are these accurate at all or are these scores/grades based on one person's opinion after playing Brawl+ a few times? Like, did any testing go into these comparisons at all? If there was, I'd love to hear about it. Maybe edit it into the first post.

 

[Heroes_Never_Die]

Anyone else think Link's spacing should be a C instead of a D?

 

[Swordplay]

Anyone else think Link's spacing should be a C instead of a D?

maybe but maybe not. He has the spacing tools but none of them are quick enough to efficiently work together. I suppose I could see either C or D but im leaning D (its a toss up) . But I think his punishing should be D instead of C. he has a few powerful moves to punish but a lot of them just come out so slow that they more than often don't hit. Also he can't combo as well as others as a form of punishment. He's limited in comparison in that department.

And I hope somebody reads my other post.

Not all the characters are up but they will be soon :D/

Time to sound off on who needs major buffs (based on this thread)

After doing some research there are 2 characters that stick out as "not viable" in any sort of way and need major buffing.

They are Bowser and Link. Bowser 2.2 offense and defense, and Link have, 2.2 defense and 2 offense. Both have No offense of defense stats. There complete crap. The third worst is at at least 2.6 (thats a big gap) (By this standard bowser and Link are in thier own Crap tier)

(average offense and defense are 3.5 and 2.9 respectively)

for bowser.....Make tilts faster and he becomes better. He can get somebody offstage and attempt a gimp.
maybe if his air lag reduction was 25 he could get down safer

For Link....He needs only 2 things. 1. An up buff in KB. He desperately needs it because he can't really kill with anytihng but dair at lower percents and hes suppose to since he can't edge guard at all.

Link also needs a higher second jump. This in itself fixes 70% of is problems which include continuing to get gimped easily and slightly extending his combo range.

Things that would help but may or may not be necessary, Lowering the KB on his D-throw would also help. Increasing speed and reducing KB of his f-tilt. Increase speed of d-tilt as a combo starter. (or fix Links d-tilt so it can actually spike)


Somewhat off topic
I must also say as a person who mains samus as well, tether grabs blow. they should get like a 1.2 speed up after grab attempt.


Edit: my conversion was F=1 D=2 C=3 B=4 A=5

 

[PanzerOceania]

I like what you did here and anybody who can read can tell that this isn't a tier list but just stats.

with or without this list it was apparent to me that Link still needs some buffs, I would like to see the effects of the Knock Back codes before commenting on the current list here though.

 

[The Cape]

Jiang:
Bowser:
C approach
C avoid combos

Ivysaur:
Combo finisher A
Punishing C

Mario:
Endurance B
Gimp resist B
Mobility C
Spacing B
Punishing B

 

[GHNeko]

Mario:
Endurance B
Gimp resist B
Mobility C
Spacing B
Punishing B

lolwat

Gimp Resist Especially.

Spoiler

10wats

 

[Sukai]

I'm a bit lost on Fox's D ranking in the gimping category.
His shine is a credible gimping more now, I'm not saying it should be an A, but a C at the least.

Could someone elaborate to clear this up for me?

 

[CloneHat]

Why is Snake's gimp resistance a C? He basically turns himself into a target with his recovery.

 

[MuBa]

Why is Snake's gimp resistance a C? He basically turns himself into a target with his recovery.

Because Snake has options when recoverying, albeit some hurtful ones but in all technicality if you recover high chances are you can safely make it back down when dropping a C4. Also since Snake's aerial lag has been significantly reduced, his aerials actually become viable and safer to use.

Point is, don't be idiotic about getting cypher grabbed.

 

[Ussi]

Do you have to go off stage to gimp? Ike has dtilt and eruption to **** since there are no auto sweetspots (besides Lucario) Course that does depend on the type of recovery, but I'd say that is affects a big margin of characters. Ike ***** at edge guarding, but not going off stage.

 

[Zodac]

not to mention snake is not effected in any way with no auto-sweetspot ledges, his recovery is relatively higher now.

I also think you should add a recovery section in the rankings or rename "gimp resistance" recovery (which would take in distance, risk of gaining % and gimpability)

A character could have good recovery and still be gimpable (like diddy, snake) just decieving wording.

 

[Ussi]

Snake is still a slowly rising duck to spikes unless he recovers high. The only Change is see is what MuBa mentioned. Less lag aerials making it easier to come down. (Hence his C)

on a side note:

Your recovery is no good if it gets gimped easily no matter what distance you can cover.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

guys, just remember that these scores are in relationship to other characters. these are done on a bell curve, that means that there HAS to be someone that gets an F.

 

[Mr.-0]

Hmm, so the conversation went from nerfing marth and know it's gonna go to nerfing MK. Nerfing marth is better ( I'm a MK fan) . But it's still not a tier list so we shouldn't be talking about nerfing yet.

 

[Problem2]

guys, just remember that these scores are in relationship to other characters. these are done on a bell curve, that means that there HAS to be someone that gets an F.

Exactly. The difference between an F and an A in one category isn't the same as in another category.

 

[Shy Guy 86]

This is a great idea, but needs to get updated over time

 

[PanzerOceania]

seeing as this isn't a tier list I think there should be more focus on buffing lacking characters than nerfing the good ones.

 

[Rikana]

lol you listened to me and made gimping a different column even though it was much more work. Good job Jiang. This will definitely be useful to look at since we need to discuss who to buff and such.

 

[GHNeko]

Hmm, so the conversation went from nerfing marth and know it's gonna go to nerfing MK. Nerfing marth is better ( I'm a MK fan) . But it's still not a tier list so we shouldn't be talking about nerfing yet.

Bold made me lolwut.

Underline made me facepalm.

Marth warrents no nerf OR buff.

MK is STILL a better character in B+, and with the Nado and Dsmash nerf gone to save line space (They'll be put back in) MK is even better once again. Marth is one of the characters way down there on the list of who needs and what needs to be nerfed.

People need to learn this. Jeez.

 

[Problem2]

While I don't think Marth is overpowered, I think he's boring in Brawl+. I wish we could do something with his f-air because using f-air is his best option in almost every situation.

 

[VietGeek]

*checks thread*

*sees everything has been redone*

*sees his wall of text has been ignored*

*extremely depressed he wasted 20 minutes of his life*

Sigh...

[Wolf]
Endurance - D
Gimp Resistence - F
Mobility - C
Resilience - F
Spacing - A
Punishing - A
Approach - B
Follow-Ups - A
Combo Finisher - A
Gimping - C

[Toon Link]
Endurance - C
Gimp Resistence - D
Mobility - A
Resilience - C
Spacing - B
Punishing - A
Approach - B
Follow-Ups - A
Combo Finisher - A
Gimping - B

/waits to be ignored again lol