Brawl+ (Competitive Hacks): Codes, Videos, and Discussion (THREAD OUT OF DATE)

[zxeon]

OK, at this point this is getting kind of off-topic.... We should make a chat room for this. I recommend Skype, IRC, or xat, in that order of preference.

EDIT: Plus it's like, 3 people talking about 3 different things in 3 different threads. WTF is that?

We're kinda using these threads as our kind of subforum.

 

[Dan_X]

Omg- Plz Read

Seriously, these last 3 days or so have resulted in the most exciting time since I first bought my Wii! Simply put, I'm not happy with a slew of Wii's titles, they've failed to impress me. Mario Kart Wii for example wasn't even as good/ fun as Double Dash. It's another scenario where Nintendo has dummied down a franchise for the casual gamer-- as the drifting mechanics have also been simplified.

After having recently hacked my Wii... everything has changed! I can finally for the first time ever sit with a friend and play any game of my choice, thanks to ROMS, and enjoy the past for HOURS. Ocarina has a built in action replay is simply amazing, I can't believe how well implemented everything is from HomeBrew to everything these hackers have made possible!

Furthering the excite of roms comes the amazing hacks for Brawl. I've fooled around a bit with Wavedashing, and it's stunning. Perfect. I love it. The game has so much more depth now, so many more approaching options. Also, the no-tripping hack works amazingly, I can't express how awesome it is to no longer trip at random. Thankfully, the hack was written so well that it doesn't affect move induced tripping, so that way certain trip-inducing attacks haven't been made useless. Then finally the finale... the prime thing needed to truly make Brawl outstanding... L-canceling. My friend and I were talking about how sweet it'd be if they found a way, they to my surprise, and a mere day later I'm looking at the hack in code form for L-canceling / S-canceling!!!!

I haven't gotten a chance to use either form of canceling, as I don't have time tonight but it's my understanding that S-canceling allows one to cancel anytime during their lag animations. Does this then mean there's no need to consider timing as you can always cancel anyway? Even if it does allow you to cancel whenever you want I can't really say that that's a bad thing as any character can do it so it's not a particular advantage for any one character. L-canceling is said to be far differently timed from Melee, how is this so? I understand the hack is only in beta form, so perhaps this will be perfected within the days/ weeks to come. What's the timing like for those of you who've tested this? Is it something that's manageable?

In the end, I thank the hacking community for making my Wii so much more fun than it ever was before! I especially thank the coders who have been working diligently to add some awesome depth to Brawl with these Melee ATs. Stunning.

What do you guys think about the 2 forms of L-Canceling? Which would you use, and what comments have you regarding them?

Thanks!!

 

[Deleted member]

eh you guysr fine ur just excited thats all =)

 

[zxeon]

eh you guysr fine ur just excited thats all =)

I don't understand.

 

[Someone7]

Seriously, these last 3 days or so have resulted in the most exciting time since I first bought my Wii! Simply put, I'm not happy with a slew of Wii's titles, they've failed to impress me. Mario Kart Wii for example wasn't even as good/ fun as Double Dash. It's another scenario where Nintendo has dummied down a franchise for the casual gamer-- as the drifting mechanics have also been simplified.

After having recently hacked my Wii... everything has changed! I can finally for the first time ever sit with a friend and play any game of my choice, thanks to ROMS, and enjoy the past for HOURS. Ocarina has a built in action replay is simply amazing, I can't believe how well implemented everything is from HomeBrew to everything these hackers have made possible!

Furthering the excite of roms comes the amazing hacks for Brawl. I've fooled around a bit with Wavedashing, and it's stunning. Perfect. I love it. The game has so much more depth now, so many more approaching options. Also, the no-tripping hack works amazingly, I can't express how awesome it is to no longer trip at random. Thankfully, the hack was written so well that it doesn't affect move induced tripping, so that way certain trip-inducing attacks haven't been made useless. Then finally the finale... the prime thing needed to truly make Brawl outstanding... L-canceling. My friend and I were talking about how sweet it'd be if they found a way, they to my surprise, and a mere day later I'm looking at the hack in code form for L-canceling / S-canceling!!!!

I haven't gotten a chance to use either form of canceling, as I don't have time tonight but it's my understanding that S-canceling allows one to cancel anytime during their lag animations. Does this then mean there's no need to consider timing as you can always cancel anyway? Even if it does allow you to cancel whenever you want I can't really say that that's a bad thing as any character can do it so it's not a particular advantage for any one character. L-canceling is said to be far differently timed from Melee, how is this so? I understand the hack is only in beta form, so perhaps this will be perfected within the days/ weeks to come. What's the timing like for those of you who've tested this? Is it something that's manageable?

In the end, I thank the hacking community for making my Wii so much more fun than it ever was before! I especially thank the coders who have been working diligently to add some awesome depth to Brawl with these Melee ATs. Stunning.

What do you guys think about the 2 forms of L-Canceling? Which would you use, and what comments have you regarding them?

Thanks!!

L-canceling isn't that different, just the window for doing it is different, and requires even more skill to use correctly. It is actually very, very similar though. I prefer it this way: it's similar enough to represent a true continuation from Melee, but different enough to be definitely distinct. It's basically the same way with wavedashing now.

S-canceling is just crazy and way too easy to do. You do crazy stuff like knee--->grab. It's fun to play around with, but it makes the game too different for my tastes, and has an extremely "hacked" feel to it, unlike the other two codes.

 

[Dan_X]

L-canceling isn't that different, just the window for doing it is different, and requires even more skill to use correctly. It is actually very, very similar though. I prefer it this way: it's similar enough to represent a true continuation from Melee, but different enough to be definitely distinct. It's basically the same way with wavedashing now.

S-canceling is just crazy and way too easy to do. You do crazy stuff like knee--->grab. It's fun to play around with, but it makes the game too different for my tastes, and has an extremely "hacked" feel to it, unlike the other two codes.

Thanks for the feedback! Tomorrow I'll check out L-canceling, as I've already added it to Ocarina!

 

[kupo15]

check out post 246
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199981&page=7

 

[Global-Trance]

I hardly come by around these boards, but just wanted to say how cool these hacks are and how awesome the hack creators are for doing a great job. I'm digging the true L-Cancel hack but the window needs to be a lot closer to the ground than it is right now. S-Cancel makes the game a lot crazier in terms of offense but it makes it a bit TOO easy to cancel stuff. If someone can get that L-Cancel perfect then we're gold.

 

[Fenrir]

Am I the only one who totally sucks at Brawl's wavedashing? It seems lots harder compared to Melee's.

 

[Wind Owl]

Just hit Y and Z at the same time.

 

[GameStation aka C4?!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyMWPfVHTU8 "Ike demo" hope u like it, make sure you click on view in better quality

 

[Wind Owl]

I must say, I was a little skeptical about the true L-canceling hack... Now I am very much on board with it. That is one scary Ike.

 

[Deleted member]

im even more interested now =)

 

[zxeon]

I must say, I was a little skeptical about the true L-canceling hack... Now I am very much on board with it. That is one scary Ike.

I wish I had the code but I don't feel like copying it. I'll do it tonight.

I was testing the Melee airdodge code against Zelda's Din's fire and it is not looking good.

 

[Wind Owl]

Try just canceling it out with Nair or someting.

 

[zxeon]

Try just canceling it out with Nair or someting.

I'll have to give it a try later.

 

[Makkun]

We definitely need a better way to chat. I can do pretty much anything. With Skype, my only mic is my Rock Band mic so I dunno how good the quality is. But I prefer anything else to posting in a forum unless not all of us are online.

Also I know C++ and I'm learning a lot of Visual Basic right now. I have a lot of experience with multiple kinds of coding, although none on an expert level. When I get a USB Gecko, which might not be until Christmas, I will definitely be able to learn how to use it rather quickly. In fact I'll probably try learning by using Gameshark on my N64 emulator. It IS the same thing, right?

 

[Revven]

0WN!N (Ganondorf) VS. ANTZ! (DDD)

Ganondorf is too epic with S-Canceling... I really don't know if I want to use L-Canceling at all now. lol.

 

[Wind Owl]

I dunno, Ganon was amazing in Melee with just L-canceling.

EDIT: lol, was that a failed CG at 1:34? Is it possible on DDD?

 

[Heavyarms2050]

0WN!N (Ganondorf) VS. ANTZ! (DDD)

Ganondorf is too epic with S-Canceling... I really don't know if I want to use L-Canceling at all now. lol.

it doesnt seem natural though compare to L-cancel

 

[Locke)]

I was just playing SSE and I noticed that on subspace levels, along with some other levels, the characters don't jump as high and also fall faster than in regular brawls. Am I crazy or is this true? If characters are indeed heavier in subspace, then it must be possible to take that altered weight data and apply it to brawls.

With this heavier weight the game would go alot faster. Please someone else check this out.

 

[kupo15]

You played with these hacks? Because I noticed something weird when I was playing. Pits AAA (Hold A) is as fast as when you manually pressing AAA to speed things up.

Wind Owl: Imagine Ike with S cancel lol

 

[Makkun]

You played with these hacks? Because I noticed something weird when I was playing. Pits AAA (Hold A) is as fast as when you manually pressing AAA to speed things up.

Wind Owl: Imagine Ike with S cancel lol

DDD is even more insane than Ike.

 

[GameStation aka C4?!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4YQAEHYREA "link demo" lets go link! strut your stuff!

 

[Revven]

0WN!N (Ganondorf) VS. ANTZ! (Link) 1

Moar Gdorf, he's way too good.

 

[Vulcan55]

I prefer the S-cancel code.
Sure, with L-cancel it's not so broken-ly fast, but with S-cancel, it evens the playing field for a lot of garbage characters.

Without Lag-canceling:
Bottom...........................................Top

With L-cancel:
..........Bottom......................................Top

With S-cancel:
......................................Bottom........Top

 

[MuBa]

I agree with Vulcan 55 where S-Cancel seems to make the game more balanced. I'm sure Ike, Ganondorf, and Captain Falcon really needs it in order to compete with the top tiers.

 

[Makkun]

I prefer the S-cancel code.
Sure, with L-cancel it's not so broken-ly fast, but with S-cancel, it evens the playing field for a lot of garbage characters.

Without Lag-canceling:
Bottom...........................................Top

With L-cancel:
..........Bottom......................................Top

With S-cancel:
......................................Bottom........Top

I agree. Although extensive testing with a lot of players is going to be necessary in order to determine which code is best to use.

Also the weirdest thing just happened. I was playing online with unseen_killa and we desynced, so I pressed start and "Ended Match". But it didn't end. So I tried again but my start button didn't work. So I killed myself and depleted my stock... and the game is still going. It's showing Snake with no stock, and Marth as the only character on screen with one stock left. Weirddd.

 

[kupo15]

I prefer the S-cancel code.
Sure, with L-cancel it's not so broken-ly fast, but with S-cancel, it evens the playing field for a lot of garbage characters.

Without Lag-canceling:
Bottom...........................................Top

With L-cancel:
..........Bottom......................................Top

With S-cancel:
......................................Bottom........Top

Ill post what I posted in the other thread:

So I was thinking about the differences and I still think l canceling is "fairer". Here are some ideas I came up with

Some people think l canceling is not as fair because it forces ppl to learn how to cancel their lag while others with auto canceled aerials don't. But at the same time, it can also not be fair how heavy moves have equal lag as light ones with s cancel.

S canceling is nothing more than brawl on steroids(i say that a lot). There is no added tech skill and it makes higher levels of play easier IMO since all you have to do is hold the shield button down. Those ppl without auto canceled moves are already thinking about lag moves so pressing a button isn't too much of a stretch. They also have beaten those with auto canceled moves.

(biggest point)
I dont believe l canceling affects auto canceled moves. If this is the case, then 64 l cancel could work out better over melee l cancel since it penalizes those characters with auto canceled moves. This means it rewards the players for learning to l cancel their aerials that are not auto canceled and limits which can be soft landed.
This also means the player needs to know more about their character.

If we use the 64 l cancel set to these specific moves, then Brawl will be a mix of 64 and melee elements.
If ppl dont like 64 l cancel and prefer melee l cancel, then it would balance everything because everyones lag is cut in half.

Also, being lower tier means working harder so a little extra work for a lot of gain would be no different.

So basically it seems that ppl would like 64 l canceling to make things fairer

 

[Vulcan55]

How easy it is to do isn't (or shouldn't be) a factor on it's effect on the game.
Canceling lag on aerials could be a 100-button combo, but if it is worth it, people would learn it regardless of its difficulty.
Before Action replay, people never would have thought of what we now know as the Waveshine.
It is a very difficult move, but since its discovery people have committed time into perfecting it.
Eventually, it all becomes muscle memory, anyway.

 

[poklin]

i prefer l cancel even with l cancel gdorf and ike are still **** i guess it wouldn't matter if it half or full lag reduce imo the thing that matters to me is how easy s cancel is and how your shield comes out(for some reason it really bugs me) i also posted this is another thread i found a way to dash cancel with out having to shield cancel(once again i hate this) anyways when you are running let go of the stick and press Y then z fast just like jump canceled grabs in melee and you will just stop and you can do any standing move... pretty nice imo.

 

[Vulcan55]

Sounds like you are doing a WD in place.
Do you have the WD code on?

I know that the Brawl WD code lets you WD in place without moving the joystick.

 

[Blank Mauser]

I prefer L-canceling because S-canceling is just too awkward. Sure it leaves tons of new options but it also doesn't leave much of a point for other options too. Snake Nair spam is just lame.

And being able to shield out of any move as if you were airdodging into the ground also means instant spot dodging on land if you wanted. If anything it makes the game more defensive and just easier for campy players. Wavedash kinda lessens it because you can punish anything given you use it smart enough but I still think L-canceling is more practical and there are plenty of combo options with it.

Even with characters that have lagless aerials like MK and Wolf it cuts the lag even more. Which is pretty cool, if only because you have something to do while you aerial spam. I agree S-canceling gives Brawl a pretty different feel though.

 

[Revven]

Moar videos.

0WN!N (Ganondorf) VS. ANTZ! (Link) 2
0WN!N (Ganondorf) VS. ANTZ! (Link) 3
0WN!N (Kirby) VS. ANTZ! (Falco)
0WN1N (TL) VS. ANTZ! (Link) 1
0WN1N (TL) VS. ANTZ! (Link) 2
0WN1N (TL) VS. ANTZ! (Link) 3
0WN1N (PT) VS. ANTZ! (Peach)

 

[poklin]

ya i guess your right that is what it is but it still works very well.

 

[kupo15]

How easy it is to do isn't (or shouldn't be) a factor on it's effect on the game.
.

why not? I thought the general problem with brawl was how easy it is to compete with top players. Its the same problem with why ppl dont like MK. Difficulty rewards the player who spends time learning it. When you have something as easy as s canceling, it doesnt reward the better player. Things that add to your game and make you a better player should take time to learn and be challenging otherwise there is no point.

 

[Revven]

'nother match.

0WN1N (Wario) VS. ANTZ! (Mario)

 

[Makkun]

I think we need a big, yet organized video dump thread. With different sections for "X vs Y" So it's easier to find and see matches.

 

[kupo15]

yea, we also need a whole subforum. Why does AiB have one and we dont?

 

[Makkun]

yea, we also need a whole subforum. Why does AiB have one and we dont?

Agreed. I've tried not to bring it up lately though, in case any mods are getting annoyed with my pestering. :\ It would be helpful not only to us, but to this whole subforum, as I'm sure our topics do not really "fit" and are annoying a lot of people.