Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[Christopher Rodriguez]

I cleaned my disc and it still isn't working. It still says DVD not found. This was never happening before, why the **** is it happening now1?!?!


Edit: nvm I tried loading up vBrawl and it can't read the disc. Lemme try cleaning it again >.>

off topic but its probably your wii lens.

i definitely recommend going to gamestop, and getting the official wii disk cleaner by nintendo, it should work (it did for me)

and ghneko that picture is so sexy

 

[Thunderhorse+]

More stages would be nice an all, but how many do we need?

Honestly I think what we have now is actually a pretty good number. The only other stage I really would want to push for being legal is Port Town as Mute City worked just fine in Melee.

But fixing some stages up so that they're playable in friendlies, while not being allowed in tourney, can't be that bad an endeavor, right? I would never want to play, say, Green Hill Zone, Big Blue, or MK anything in tourney, but I think they would be fun while messing around with friends.

I won't want to see the tourney-legal stage list get too much bigger though.

 

[stingers]

i think it would be awesome if every stage was tournament legal lol

someone, find a way to fix 75M

 

[thesage]

How to fix 75m:

Delete it from the stage list.

 

[Rudra]

I cant wait to see what else can be done with Spear Pillar. >=3

 

[shanus]

Ness Players:

Would you like to see a 5 frame super armor initial window for his downB with the removal of infinite PKT1s, or infinite PKT1's with only a sped up downB?

 

[PKNintendo]

DEFINETELY option two. NO CHANGES TO INFINITE PKT!!!
Gah, his recovery...


=[


Sped up, as in Down B actually speeds up?


Coolio. That's like a free buff, how fast would you speed it up?

 

[shanus]

Well remember, he will have Zap Jump, a more DIable wall bounce from upB, and then the option to either superarmor an attack with his downB OR have infinite PKT1s

 

[ChronoPenguin]

So uh .....it's impossible to just edit the hazards on Spear pillar to force that bottom laser that targets the cave to always occur instead of whatever else?
I mean...the game already has something set up to shoot the dudes down there...but if it happened more frequently well being there would kinda suck after the shield pressure of the lasers playing a role.

 

[The Cape]

I like the super armor downB idea better personally.

Its more original and it also gives the option to use it as an edgeguard among other things.

 

[PKNintendo]

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3160671

my thoughts.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Would "removing infinite PKT1's" mean he has his old gimpable as **** recovery?

 

[Deleted member]

I like the super armor downB idea better personally.

Its more original and it also gives the option to use it as an edgeguard among other things.

wut? It has a hitbox now?

 

[PKNintendo]

Yes. And he loses the PKT juggle. SA on psi armor really isn't worth it. Plus Shanus said he'd speed it up if we went with option 2.

 

[The Cape]

It always did. Its a windbox.

What I did for it that may or may not go in, was give it more KB and make it a bit bigger. So you can super armor an attack and then push them away. Things like that.

 

[PKNintendo]

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3160682

More thoughts.

Also this isn't set in stone right? I mean we Ness' still get to vote... Right?

 

[Big O]

So you can actually add super armor to attacks now or are you guys just planning this ahead of time?

 

[PKNintendo]

Psi Magnet already had a hitbox.


(sigh)
Nobody uses psi magnet. :/

 

[MK26]

Well...his recovery won't really be 'gimpable as ****', seeing as how you'll have an attack with instant super armour to protect you. Not to mention it'd make a good counter onstage, even though invincibility on startup would be better. Giving it a shine-spike angle could also make it useful as a gimping tool. I personally prefer the first option, or at least think it deserves to be tried out before you bash it.

...

wait wut
you can add super armour now?

 

[Kink-Link5]

So you can actually add super armor to attacks now or are you guys just planning this ahead of time?

I'm also curious about this.

 

[PKNintendo]

Well...his recovery won't really be 'gimpable as ****', seeing as how you'll have an attack with instant super armour to protect you. Not to mention it'd make a good counter onstage, even though invincibility on startup would be better. Giving it a shine-spike angle could also make it useful as a gimping tool. I personally prefer the first option, or at least think it deserves to be tried out before you bash it.

...

wait wut
you can add super armour now?

It's not really an attack though. It does 0 damage. It only protects you for 5 frames as well.

I like the idea but removing infinite PKT's is a bit much. I really dislike the add and remove laws. I find Ness to be absolutely fine the way he is and adding this is a tad unnecessary.

Well if you REALLY want to add this in, can we nerf something else? (His recovery won't get better at all. The lag of Psi magnet in the air is comparable to Ness double jumping. In short you use Psi magnet in air=you die)

 

[The Cape]

Well sort of.

I found a way to do it with Ness down B and Bowser crawl. Exploring other options.

 

[PKNintendo]

What did Bowser lose for the crawl option?

I now I sound like a whiny brat but I need to know. If it was something meaningless, cool I guess, but if it's something big like... say removing his fire's amazing shield stun or nerfing his throws I would be mad.

It's the same way I feel with Ness Up B nerf. If we want to add this (which is unneccesary) We really need to change/remove something else.

 

[shanus]

It's not really an attack though. It does 0 damage. It only protects you for 5 frames as well.

I like the idea but removing infinite PKT's is a bit much. I really dislike the add and remove laws. I find Ness to be absolutely fine the way he is and adding this is a tad unnecessary.

Well if you REALLY want to add this in, can we nerf something else? (His recovery won't get better at all. The lag of Psi magnet in the air is comparable to Ness double jumping. In short you use Psi magnet in air=you die)

Well we got rid of the downB jump cancel, so it stalls correct again and all.

The reason about it is that Ness' weakness is his recovery. Now you have a zap jump and infinite PKT1s, and we are working on fixing the wallcrashes. So this super armor trick is really adding something to which has already been addressed a lot, so its really starting to turn a weakness into a strength. Hence why one or the other.

 

[The Cape]

Having the zap jump and the wall bounce fix is better than the infinite PKT1s as is and the down B adds another unique option AND another edgeguarding tool.

As for Bowser crawl, we took nothing out, it was an addition we wanted to add for months now and we finally figured it out. He only has SA through things like Falco's lasers and most jabs as is.

 

[PKNintendo]

So us Ness mains still have a choice?

I totally would go for the other. I mean a sped up psi magnet (which sorta helps) and the keeping of infinite PKT

(which people forget that it also makes it juggle opponents!!!)

Recovery + Good juggle> SA on a situational move.


What if Ness faces Peach? Ness can't absorb anything, and gets wrecked of stage. His new recovery helps mitigate that. Now people can't bull**** the character by saying his recovery is bad.

 

[PKNintendo]

Having the zap jump and the wall bounce fix is better than the infinite PKT1s as is and the down B adds another unique option AND another edgeguarding tool.

As for Bowser crawl, we took nothing out, it was an addition we wanted to add for months now and we finally figured it out. He only has SA through things like Falco's lasers and most jabs as is.

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3160695

Also, how does it edgeguard?

 

[shanus]

So us Ness mains still have a choice?

I totally would go for the other. I mean a sped up psi magnet (which sorta helps) and the keeping of infinite PKT

(which people forget that it also makes it juggle opponents!!!)

Recovery + Good juggle> SA on a situational move.


What if Ness faces Peach? Ness can't absorb anything, and gets wrecked of stage. His new recovery helps mitigate that. Now people can't bull**** the character by saying his recovery is bad.

Because downB wouldn't be situational anymore. You use its startup to eat a move AND cause the opponent to be pushed away without you suffering any KB.

Of course players have a choice, thats why we are asking public opinion lol

 

[PKNintendo]

Oh yeah. Yeah, but it's at the cost of removing an intriguing gameplay element. Can't we change/remove something else...

Or we can do the naughty thing and not nerf anything?

Edit: It could be swung that by removing infinite PKT would make it situational
suicidal to use in the air.

 

[CloneHat]

Super armour now? Why don't you add super armour to Ganon's utilt, so you can edgeguard better and it would be much harder to punish?

 

[The Cape]

Clonehat: That one I cant do sadly. And the explosion box on that move is huge as is.

PKNintendo. You think that infinite PKT1s is a more intriguing element to gameplay than a counter windbox? Think about it, not only can he use it to recovery (since he doesnt have that dumb absorb thing that makes him fall forever anymore) but he can also use it to edgeguard. Imagine jumping out and SAing Ike forwardB and then windboxing him away. Now THATS an intriguing gameplay element.

 

[CountKaiser]

=/

Personally, I'd want to keep the infinite PKT1 over SA psi magnet. That's me, though, and I want to hear everyone else's opinion on this.

 

[PKNintendo]

Clonehat: That one I cant do sadly. And the explosion box on that move is huge as is.

PKNintendo. You think that infinite PKT1s is a more intriguing element to gameplay than a counter windbox? Think about it, not only can he use it to recovery (since he doesnt have that dumb absorb thing that makes him fall forever anymore) but he can also use it to edgeguard. Imagine jumping out and SAing Ike forwardB and then windboxing him away. Now THATS an intriguing gameplay element.

Yes, it sounds intriguing. Fun even, really really fun. (not sarcastic) but it also takes away something fun too... Infinite PKT.

Infinite PKT allow you juggle enemies in the air without punishment. I can jump out towards Ike, and PKT juggle him for massive damage AND not take damage.

Again, I really want to argue for something else to be changed/nerfed.

If that isn't possible, option 2 is the best for Ness.
It's a win/win situation (sped up psi magnet) and infinite PKTs.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Although I won't be here to test it (leaving for 2 1/2 weeks) I think the idea should at least make it into a Nightly and given a fair chance. The thing is, infinite PKT isn't even much of a buff, a good player will just cancel the second one just as the did the first and gimp Ness anyways.

Infinite PKT is great for low/mid level play but I doubt it would stop someone from gimping Ness at a serious tourney.

Also people who take buffs to their character when they know that they don't need buffs at all kind of make me mad.

 

[The Cape]

PKT juggle just seems so lame you know? He can do so many other cool things.

 

[PKNintendo]

Although I won't be here to test it (leaving for 2 1/2 weeks) I think the idea should at least make it into a Nightly and given a fair chance. The thing is, infinite PKT isn't even much of a buff, a good player will just cancel the second one just as the did the first and gimp Ness anyways.

Infinite PKT is great for low/mid level play but I doubt it would stop someone from gimping Ness at a serious tourney.

Also people who take buffs to their character when they know that they don't need buffs at all kind of make me mad.

...

Your kidding... Right?
God please tell me your kidding.

Infinite PKT's is godsend for Ness. juggling, recovering...
It's amazing at high levels. I could EASILY argue onto why Psi magnet's five frames of SA is any good.

Ask Sage himself (who undisputedly along with Simna plays with the best)

Matt, why do you always disagree with me AND why do you always dislike buffs?

Following your logic, Ness should be untouched!

PS: Giving it a *chance* is to allow the buff without nerfs. Not get rid of a good gameplay element.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Just my two cents on the matter, but why not have both infinite PKT and the SA Magnet Windbox, but take out Zap Jump? I'm not sure how integral it is to Ness' game, but that always seemed more like a "Lucas" thing, and Ness now seems to have all the tools he needs offstage with infinite PKT. It would allow the cool SA Magnet while keeping the Ness mains' Infinite PKT, while further differentiating Ness and Lucas.

But I have to stress that I am not a Ness main, nor do I play Ness even remotely seriously, so take my suggestions about Ness with a grain of salt. The Ness mains should be able to work this out better than I, but it seems like a fair compromise between the two from a bystander's viewpoint.

 

[proteininja]

Taking away infinite PKT would make him way to easy to gimp. I vote for keeping infinite PKT.

 

[FrozenHobo]

ok, just discussing this in the chat:

aside from obvious nana changes, give popo SA frames at the initial animation of the belay tether. not during the pull, but at the beginning (once nana connects to when she starts pulling).

 

[Mattnumbers]

ok, think about it.

You jump on PKT.
Ness uses PKT again.

All you have to do is jump on it again.
By that time he's too low to be able to recover any more.

The same thing works for projectiles, you easily canceled it once, whats keeping you from doing the same thing again?

Infinite PKT isn't too great of a buff, it just seems like it's much better at first.

Ness needed buffs earlier, that's why I thought he should get them. But I don't think he needs any now (although the SA in exchange for infinite PKT1 would be good since the SA would add depth, which I'm usually for even if the character does end up better in the end)

Sorry if I seem like I always disagree with you, I haven't noticed it.


Also, one of Ness's weakness's has ALWAYS been that he is easy to gimp, even in 64 when he was considered a top (or high depending on who you ask) tier character.