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[Nybb]

Well remember, he will have Zap Jump, a more DIable wall bounce from upB, and then the option to either superarmor an attack with his downB OR have infinite PKT1s

I think super armour is way better. It is a lot more unique and restores Ness to how he has always been. Infinite PKT1 while recovering hardly even helps that much. As Matt is trying to say, anybody who can kill one PKT can usually kill another. It just makes it take longer to gimp Ness without really make it any harder. Having something that actually takes some player skill (armour frames) and is more unique is way better.

Oh yeah. Yeah, but it's at the cost of removing an intriguing gameplay element. Can't we change/remove something else...

Or we can do the naughty thing and not nerf anything?

Edit: It could be swung that by removing infinite PKT would make it situational
suicidal to use in the air.

I would hardly call infinite PKT1 intiguing. Ness just sits in the air and spams PKT1 until the edgeguarder screws up and lets him on or until he dies. Zap Jumping and using magnet actually require some timing and thought. Ness having down-b stall, zap jump, buffed wall bounce, and super armour is plenty for is recovery IMO. As long as he doesn't get the half-length PKT2 when he hits somebody, I think his recovery will be just fine that way.

Also, one of Ness's weakness's has ALWAYS been that he is easy to gimp, even in 64 when he was considered a top (or high depending on who you ask) tier character.

This. I've always thought that infinite thunder was cheesy and went against his character. Although for the record, Ness is generally considered to be mid tier in 64. The GameFAQs tier list you've probably seen is really outdated now.

 

[Mattnumbers]

This. I've always thought that infinite thunder was cheesy and went against his character. Although for the record, Ness is generally considered to be mid tier in 64. The GameFAQs tier list you've probably seen is really outdated now.

Nah I looked at it in the 64 boards, people usually place him in High tier, sometimes top. Although for all I know you could be Isai in disguise so maybe I just don't know enough about 64 (I just play it every now and then)

 

[Kink-Link5]

In regards to Matt's statements, if Infinite PKT is just as easy to gimp as regular PKT, what is the harm in keeping it, and what benefits are there in removing it?

Looping logic confounds me.

 

[GPDP]

I really think we ought to reconsider Marth's gravity settings. His short hop is too high, which makes his shffl game too sluggish, for one.

I know his short hop is as high as it is to make it easier to pull off two aerials in one short hop, but can't we just slightly speed up the cool down on fair to achieve the same effect? IMO, his shffl should be about as fast as it was in Melee, which it can be with a shorter short hop, and nerfing it for the sake of ease without considering another way of achieving the desired result hurts Marth's options.

I'd certainly hope for this to be tested out.

 

[The Cape]

Infinite PKT1 is a hand holding thing. You make a bad choice with the PKT1 and you deserve to fall to your death. Especailly since you already have zap jump and now this super armor possiblity.

Thats just how I see it. I see the downB gives more depth and the PKT1 is just hand holding.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Well, it seems kind of silly to ask for people's opinions if you are going to argue against one of them.

I really think we ought to reconsider Marth's gravity settings. His short hop is too high, which makes his shffl game too sluggish, for one.

I know his short hop is as high as it is to make it easier to pull off two aerials in one short hop, but can't we just slightly speed up the cool down on fair to achieve the same effect? IMO, his shffl should be about as fast as it was in Melee, which it can be with a shorter short hop, and nerfing it for the sake of ease without considering another way of achieving the desired result hurts Marth's options.

I'd certainly hope for this to be tested out.

The last thing Marth needs is a fair buff :T

 

[The Cape]

We ask for the opinions but it would be stupid to allow them to consider the options when they wont even consider both. I am just getting people to look at the options of the downB because at first glance it seems like a bad decision.

 

[GPDP]

All I ask for is enough of a cooldown boost for double fair or far > uair to be easy enough to pull off without making him feel like molasses out of a short hop.

I know many people tend to be relatively conservative when it comes to characters that are already "good," but as it is, Marth is a shadow of his former self. I'm not asking for something that would put him at top tier. I just wish he "felt" better, if you catch my drift.

I'm actually of the opinion that many characters could use similar gravity tweaks. It's something I'm going to be looking at once the new engine codes come out.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Like Cape said, all PKT2 does is hold the players hand, which isn't a good thing. That's why it should be removed despite not helping recovery much.


Also, I think your right about 64 Ness Nybb, excuse my lack of 64 knowledge.

 

[Nybb]

Nah I looked at it in the 64 boards, people usually place him in High tier, sometimes top. Although for all I know you could be Isai in disguise so maybe I just don't know enough about 64 (I just play it every now and then)

Well, nobody thinks he is better than Pika/Kirby, and I've never seen a high-level player say he is better than Fox/Falcon, so that already puts him in the middle right there. And ya, it's always good to watch out for Isai in disguise, he does that kind of thing sometimes.

edit:

Also, I think your right about 64 Ness Nybb, excuse my lack of 64 knowledge.

You're excused.

I really think we ought to reconsider Marth's gravity settings. His short hop is too high, which makes his shffl game too sluggish, for one.

I know his short hop is as high as it is to make it easier to pull off two aerials in one short hop, but can't we just slightly speed up the cool down on fair to achieve the same effect? IMO, his shffl should be about as fast as it was in Melee, which it can be with a shorter short hop, and nerfing it for the sake of ease without considering another way of achieving the desired result hurts Marth's options.

I'd certainly hope for this to be tested out.

I would have to agree with this. Marth has always felt off to me in terms of physics.


And any word yet on Ganon being able to double jump after SH b-air? I think that this would pretty much complete him. He is already almost perfect as he is IMO. He is a ton of fun to play and one more approach / defensive mindgame would really round out his game.

 

[Mattnumbers]

If Marth gets his physics readjusted so that he is better I think he should get a Dtilt nerf.

 

[PKNintendo]

I'm back.

It's what I feared. It's turned into a debate...

Sheesh?
Infinite PKT1 handholding? Sounds like someone wants to get rid of it. I mean think about it, it allows you to recover from your doom while juggling your foe. Here's a PERFECT example of it.


I was pretending (with my brother) to see if psi magnet (with FIVE FRAMES OF SA FRAMES!!!) would be a good idea. Not only does it not gimp well, it's not good tradeoff at all. I mean think about it, your nerfing a GOOD move, for a SITUATIONAL move.

It's edgeguarding effects are hardly worth it too.

Dealing and juggling>>> Potentially gimping.

PS: 64=/=Brawl +.

Ness was a god in 64. A GOD!!!
You couldn't gimp him as well.

People are missing the main point. Infinite PKT's are good at JUGGLING!!!

JUGGLING!!! It's an amazing tech and I see it as being far better than gimping with a move that has a five frame SA.

I am all for testing it, but I believe that should stay the way it is.

What we could do is nerf the psi magnet itself. Sounds ridiculous right?
By slowing it down, it could be a better move.


And what happened to Shanus option #2. We as Ness mains were given a golden opportunity!!! Buff a move, and keep our great PKT1!


Edit: Oh god. I just threw a hissifit.

 

[Mattnumbers]

PKT juggling is easy to get around and a generally cheap and shallow way to deal damage.

I think maybe up the SA frames to 6 or 8 though, but I would have to try it out with 5 first I guess (which I won't get to do until I get back and the decision is made )

 

[PKNintendo]

PKT juggling is easy to get around and a generally cheap and shallow way to deal damage.

I think maybe up the SA frames to 6 or 8 though, but I would have to try it out with 5 first I guess (which I won't get to do until I get back and the decision is made )

Your kidding? Since when have we allowed cheapness into our decisions? Loads of moves are cheap. Why bring morals into this? No offense.

PKT juggling was not cheap. (Even Sage and Simna agree to this)

 

[Mattnumbers]

I never said that we should change it solely because it's cheap, I just meant that removing "cheap" things shouldn't really be considered a bad thing.

 

[PKNintendo]

I never said that we should change it solely because it's cheap, I just meant that removing "cheap" things shouldn't really be considered a bad thing.

I'm sorry but that's the thing.

It isn't cheap. Also, what is your definition of cheap, because if it's poor than that means your a scrub. (no offense of course)

PS: By poor I mean it deals to much damage and or it's hard to escape.

 

[FrozenHobo]

i just see it as another factor in making the game easier. with infinite PKT1s you have no real threat of using them off stage. ness has a great air game and a devastating on stage presence. giving him offstage options besides his crappy recovery doesn't really seem like a good idea. if the character has a great stage game and a bad recovery, yet the player has no fear of being gimped offstage then there is a serious flaw that needs to be reconciled. as he is now ness is a fine character with a lot of combos and a great air game. he doesn't need an ungimpable recovery.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I'm sorry but that's the thing.

It isn't cheap. Also, what is your definition of cheap, because if it's poor than that means your a scrub. (no offense of course)

PS: By poor I mean it deals to much damage and or it's hard to escape.

I mean cheap as in a move that although not overpowered, is still annoying or detrimental to the players experience.

 

[PKNintendo]

i just see it as another factor in making the game easier. with infinite PKT1s you have no real threat of using them off stage. ness has a great air game and a devastating on stage presence. giving him offstage options besides his crappy recovery doesn't really seem like a good idea. if the character has a great stage game and a bad recovery, yet the player has no fear of being gimped offstage then there is a serious flaw that needs to be reconciled. as he is now ness is a fine character with a lot of combos and a great air game. he doesn't need an ungimpable recovery.

Your the first to actually say it makes his recovery leagues better.

Clearly it's still gimp able. The infinite PKT1 codes been out for awhile and no one's complained.
The thing that disturbs me was this was originally an idea for Ness mains, but mains from all over want Ness to change to suit their needs.

(Crappier, different, more fun)

I mean he was fine the way he was without being cheap. This *Buff* seems more like a nerf, that feels completely unnecessary. Sure we could try it out, but it goes against the

*choice*

we as Ness mains are given.

 

[FrozenHobo]

just because you have the option to give you character better options doesn't mean its always the best idea for the whole community. the community was given the choice to vote on IC infinites. the majority ruled that they should be taken out. we learned to adapt and have wound up with a rather nice character (we're still working on nana complaints...). the point being we took the option for the infinites and agreed to go with the majority and remove them. ness is a fine character in B+ now and has considerable buffs added to him already. rather than think about 'what would make ness better' we need to ask 'what would make the GAME better.' as it stands, PKT1 offers no threat of SDing or being gimped offstage. if we want to make a serious game that requires skill to play then we shouldn't be afraid to punish players for being in bad positions, and not forgive them for being pushed by an opponent.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I play Ness too PK.

Not to mention that you are the only Ness main that has actually said no so far. Get sage and simna over here and see what they have to say.

Anyways, I'm leaving now, I'll talk to everyone later.

 

[thesage]

Pkt juggling was ineffectual lol. PKT doesn't have enough hitstunSince I don't think pkt will be buffed in the next nightly nothing is lost (pkt was still terrible even with Simna's buffs...).

So yea anyways. There are three buffs to Ness' recovery. The zap jump, psi magnet buff, or infinite aerial pkt1.

Firstly I want to say, keep the "zap jump." It's not really a zap jump since it works with (and better actually) with his aerials as well as pk fire and can have some useful applications onstage as well.

So now what's left, psi magnet or pkt? Well, even though I think having both would still give Ness a lolrecovery since pkt2 sucks THAT much as a recovery move, I vote for the psi magnet buff. Pkt1 is a pretty useless projectile now. The only really useful application pkt1 had was that you could shoot if off the ledge and then grab the edge (or use it to "sweetspot djs" safely. You could stil do that without the buff, it just made it easier, since if you messed up you could rely on pkt2 to save you (not really lol). IDK if they'll keep the buffs Cape, Kaiser, and me were working with, but it was really awesome since the hitbox and power of the wind effect was increased. So the move could work like a shine offstage (eat the hit from the up-b and push them away) and the move had crazy vertical range.

So yea, for the next nighly, I'd like to see psi magnet experimented with and the pkt1 buff removed. Please don't think I'm making a self serving decision since I really had to think about this (I'm attending a major tournament next weekend lol).

Also, I've never really cared about Ness's recovery buffs in the long run. I'd rather he have a good onstage game rather than what will always be a mediocre recovery (unless the hitbox size of pkt2 is improved upon, it doesn't halve when it hits things).

Yea this post might be pretty incoherent since I'm half asleep right now, but besides the reasons I listed above, I also want more time to be given to experiment with the "zap jump" and psi magnet buffs.

What should've also been mentioned is that not only does psi magnet have super armore, the wind hitbox was increased (vertical hitbox is gigantic) and is more powerful.

I fell asleep writing this btw.

 

[GHNeko]

I'm really excited to make a ton of legal stages that will ruin the good counterpicking system found in Smash games just so we can say we can. I'm truly stoked about it.

QQ more son. The POSSIBLE addition of 4-5 stages wont break the CP system because after stages are said and done, we still have to discuss official stages and if worse comes to worse we can still ban stages in the end for not meeting par in terms of quality. Like how you have 20 good players for a sports team, but because the roster only allows 10, you take the best 10, and maybe have 5 as like backup? Yea. Same thing here son.

Some fixed stages might turn out to be better, more potent CPs/Neutrals than ones we have now like Skyword (If the changes we want are put into effect.)

It's not fixing stages because we want to. It's fixing stages to enhance the competitive aspect even more. I would lol if a stage that is broke'd now is fixed and turns out to be a better CP/Neutral/Stage overall than one that we've had for a while now.

 

[Gaussis]

Before I go into this, is there any way to limit PKT to say 3 uses before he goes into helpless?

Infinite PKT has its many uses, but I just don't see how it creates a recovery where you have no fear of being punished. Ness remains helpless to defend himself for a good while before he hits himself with PKT2. I mean sure, you can direct PKT at the opponent, and then recover, but it won't work all the time, especially against characters with good aerial speed/momentum or projectiles. The multiple PKT only ensures that you still have a fighting chance without completely losing all of your options the moment PKT is gone. Now, I haven't seen the newest Ness changes, but assuming that PKT is the same speed as before, PKT recovery is a risky choice.

If PKT now is a move that doesn't hold the above, well I suppose removing it wouldn't be such a bad idea. However, would the tradeoff be reasonable? We would still have to see that.

An alternate option is to just limit PKT to 3 (seems reasonable) before entering helpless. That way, it keeps the original Ness recovery risk, while at the same time, the player isn't completely screwed to random occurences or just getting easily gimped.

EDIT: Just saw thesage's post. I agree to an extent with him. I would like to see how this magnet thing turns out.

 

[GuruKid]

Dangit Neko, you beat me to it.

Creating more tournament-viable stages can only do good for the game; there's absolutely nothing wrong with creating a more diverse stage pool in the competitive scene. Also emphasize Neko's point that these potential legal stages may actually prove to be more sound than existing ones.

At any rate, it's ultimately up to the Tournament Organizers to make the final word on what stages will be legal at their tournaments.

 

[Shadic]

Why are we giving Ness the Zap Jump? Or am I mistaken.

I think it's a horrid idea.

 

[Nybb]

I'm back.

It's what I feared. It's turned into a debate...

It's almost like debates are a good thing.

Sheesh?
Infinite PKT1 handholding? Sounds like someone wants to get rid of it. I mean think about it, it allows you to recover from your doom while juggling your foe.

I was pretending (with my brother) to see if psi magnet (with FIVE FRAMES OF SA FRAMES!!!) would be a good idea. Not only does it not gimp well, it's not good tradeoff at all. I mean think about it, your nerfing a GOOD move, for a SITUATIONAL move.

It's edgeguarding effects are hardly worth it too.

What? How is multiple PKT1 a good move? And how is that even a nerf to the move itself? It's just a nerf to Ness' recovery, if that makes any sense. But it is a nerf that could be exchanged for a buff that is much better.

Think about it for a second. A quick move with a huge wind hitbox AND super armour frames...versus a lame projectile that can be used offensively extremely rarely and sucks as a recovery. A magnet buff is way less situational than infinite PKT1. Not only does the proposed magnet buff help his recovery, but I could see some really interesting uses for it on stage as well.

Dealing and juggling>>> Potentially gimping.

Well, that is a true statement in and of itself. However, removing infinite PKT1 does not just eliminate its ability to juggle...it only eliminates the ability to juggle offstage. And if a recovering Ness can juggle people offstage, I think we are doing something wrong lol. And as I stated before, the proposed magnet buffs could have way more uses than just "potentially gimping."

PS: 64=/=Brawl +.

Ness was a god in 64. A GOD!!!
You couldn't gimp him as well.

lolwut? Ness is generally considered to be tied for absolute worst recovery in the game in 64. And as I've already stated, he is middle tier at best.

You are correct, this is not 64. But we shouldn't just ignore the precedent set by 64, Melee, and Brawl. Ness is meant to have a bad recovery and he is not meant to try to do crazy offstage shenanigans IMO. Why not just accept that his recovery is mediocre and give him a far more interesting buff?

 

[GPDP]

Alright, I've gone back and reviewed the work I've done regarding character gravity settings.

The only characters I modified that were also in Melee were Mario, Captain Falcon, Marth, and Falco. Of the four, Falco plays and feels very differently overall, so I am going to limit my analysis to the preceding three. I will also provide the code used in the Jump/Grav Values code for each character.

Mario (003865C0)

Mario just feels sluggish in this game. Compare him to his Melee counterpart. Both his jump and short hop are higher and floatier. Now, the full jump height may be alright to leave as is (though I believe it should rise faster), but I don't see why his short hop needs to be so high and floaty. In Melee, he had fast shffls, so why shouldn't he have them in Brawl+ as well? With my current modification, he's definitely closer to Melee, but still not quite there. Still, if people feel they don't wanna replicate Melee Mario exactly, I believe this is a fine compromise. If the problem lies with a certain aerial, I suggest speeding up its cooldown just a tad to make up for this.

Captain Falcon (093868C0)

I must say Falcon feels alright as he is, but nevertheless, he's still no Melee Falcon in terms of pure speed, so I decided to try giving him a further speed buff to get him closer by increasing his jump speed, though again, I didn't exactly match him, since it would require increasing his dgrav.

Marth (116865C0)

I already talked about how slow his shffl game is. This can be fixed with a shorter short hop, making his shffl game faster again. Of course, he still doesn't match Melee Marth completely, as his dgrav is not high enough, but it'll do. And yes, it makes his double aerials just about impossible to do without buffer, and even then it'd be tricky, but a very slight cooldown on his fair would likely fix this problem.

Now, what's holding me back from further testing gravity settings is the fact many characters' settings are built upon with the current universal hitstun in mind, which means no matter what I do, I have to make sure dgrav stays about the same or else risk making the characters more or less comboable. Hopefully once the new codes are out, this limitation can be overcome, and we can further experiment with character gravity settings without worrying about messing with their comboability. We will also be able to test new gravity settings for characters with gravity-dependent specials, so that will be nice as well.

Oh, and by the way, any changes in gravity will pretty much necessitate changes in momentum as well. The Falcon settings above result in noticeably less momentum.

 

[camelot]

Wait, would PSI Magnet have super armor frames, or invincibility frames? If it's super armor frames, what's the point? Say you're about to eat a smash attack. You'd still take a big amount of damage, making a spot-dodge a better choice. And using it in the air seems like a bad alternative to a simple air-dodge if it's super armor... unless you made the wind effect a lot better. I also think it's a bad idea to call the wind effect a "counter-attack" seeing as it does 0 damage.

 

[_clinton]

So yea anyways. There are three buffs to Ness' recovery. The zap jump, psi magnet buff, or infinite aerial pkt1.

Firstly I want to say, keep the "zap jump." It's not really a zap jump since it works with (and better actually) with his aerials as well as pk fire and can have some useful applications onstage as well.

The boost to the momentum helped the zap jump more than the other changes IMO...but whatever...

Anyway my view on PKT is to keep the multi use of it (I noticed another person bringing up that they thing Ness' recovery was fixed with it) I don't see it helping Ness' recovery that much in a game that is faster than before...to the point where the start up time could matter...but the other uses of PKT's buff is that it can actually compliment his air game better IMO...but whatever...I really don't mind wanting to try out the magnet buff in return for PKT1 for a bit...however I would like it if PKT1 didn't put you in free fall...I like having no cool down time before being able to move again on the ground...

Wait, would PSI Magnet have super armor frames, or invincibility frames? If it's super armor frames, what's the point? Say you're about to eat a smash attack. You'd still take a big amount of damage, making a spot-dodge a better choice. And using it in the air seems like a bad alternative to a simple air-dodge if it's super armor... unless you made the wind effect a lot better. I also think it's a bad idea to call the wind effect a "counter-attack" seeing as it does 0 damage.

Its a semi shine move now...from what I see

 

[CountKaiser]

The downB would have super armor.

From what I remember, infinite PKT1 was put there to dissuade people from simply jumping out to hit the pkt, and instead jump out to hit Ness. However, with the massive boost the new zap jump gives, that's no longer a problem.


EDIT: Also, something to consider about transcendental priority.

I don't think it's tied to the slash ID, but instead is hardcoded into moves. I assume it's safe to guess that Marth's dsmash is slash type, correct? Well, it clanks with other grounded attacks. However, MK's fsmash goes right through the attack, so much so that it won't even clank with itself.

I was investigating this because I believe giving Ness's yoyos this priority will fix the problem of them clanking with aerials. This is something that should be looked into.

 

[timothyung]

Actually I don't think those recovery buffs help Ness' recovery a lot.
I don't think Zap Jump makes Ness' recovery got a lot better. You use up your second jump for the Zap Jump, and the distance covered isn't that much more than a second jump, and the PK Fire is very laggy.
The infinite PKT1 just prevents Ness from being gimped by people simply jumping into the PKT. You have to block it a few times before you can edgehog Ness, but with the not freefall feature Ness can use PKT1 to hit the opponent before they jump down to prevent this from happening. It also enables interesting off-stage combos ending in PKT1.
The downB-super armor would be like olimar's whistle with wind. And the wind push the opponent back to the stage, for an edgehog. If the wind pulls strongly though, it would be useful.
IMO even with all the three buffs Ness' recovery won't get much better...Unless the magnet pulls. So, what would you do to the wind hitbox?

 

[camelot]

So, what would you do to the wind hitbox?

Make it push downward? And/or make it do damage? (while keeping the wind effect)

Or just increase the wind effect. It's pretty blah how it is.

 

[proteininja]

*noob alert*

Can someone post a how to video of ness's zap jump?

Do you have to use b-sticking like with lucas's?

Because if that is so then it sucks because i don't use b sticking normally.

*end noob alert... you may come out from underr your desks*

 

[Alphatron]

The idea of testing an SA magnet is something I'm all up for. However, I merely see it being useless compared to Ness' other options.

Why eat an attack if I can pillar spike? Or PKT1 stage spike? I'm not going to risk jumping into a dolphin slash for the possibility of pushing Marth away from the stage when I could just PKT1 onstage and go for a stage spike. Multi hit recoveries like Squirtle and Chairzard also seem to screw this up. Fox Illusion and Falco Phantasm come to mind as well. Unless the target is in freefall...and by then Ness can kill them another way. The wind currently has a crap hitbox, and no hitstun. If all that can be done is increasing the knockback, then I don't see it being too stellar. Unless maybe used against someone like Zelda who attempts to return to the stage with a Din's Fire.

Then again, this is all theorycrafting. So once again, I'm all up for giving it a shot. I just doubt the results will add more to Ness' game than infinite PKT1(which doesn't exactly make his recovery stellar. We know this).

As for the stage thing, more nuetral stages doesn't really add more to the competitive game...because the stages are all nuetral. More counterpicks? Sure, because then you have more stages to choose that could be to your liking. Adding more nuetral stages would be similar to replacing every stage in the game with smashville and then texture hacking them with different colors.

 

[MK26]

I was investigating this because I believe giving Ness's yoyos this priority will fix the problem of them clanking with aerials. This is something that should be looked into.

That isnt really a problem...Olimar's smashes do the same thing

And from what I've read, if PSI Magnet is buffed, it will:
have 5 frames of super armour on start-up
have a larger hitbox
have a stronger pushback at a 'shine-spike' type of angle
actually do some damage

what about giving it super armour and cape properties?

 

[Alphatron]

While that would be brutally awesome, I think we should leave the cape properties to the cape. >_>

 

[camelot]

edit: ^ what he said

 

[PKNintendo]

Ugh, somehow I feel like this is being implemented as we speak.
I for one oppose and detest the EXCHANGE rule.

We nerf something to buff something? I completely detest that, when said character was fine to start with. Adding SA is on psi magnet is a change sure, but it's pointless and unneccesary. I deem it to be more of a drawback unless a compromise is made.

A. No nerf is made (not likely)
B. We nerf something else!!!

C. (What happened to Shanus' first option!!! To simply soeed up psi magnet. It's a win-win situation)

Edit:

Fine, it seems that most Ness' are in agreement. Arguing is futile but...


I say we allow this to get into the nightly build, and see if it's good. If it turns out to suck, we revert to the old PKT!!!


consider this a white flag.

 

[weinzey]

*noob alert*

Can someone post a how to video of ness's zap jump?

Do you have to use b-sticking like with lucas's?

Because if that is so then it sucks because i don't use b sticking normally.

*end noob alert... you may come out from underr your desks*

u dont have to b-stick for either one. imo its actually easier without b-sticking. u just have to dj and then almost immediatly pkfire. the timing for lucas' zap jump is easier though (or just different and just easier because i'm used to it).

to perform it u can either "claw" (= press x/y with ur forefinger) or assign jump to a shoulder button.