Social C. Falcon Social

[0Room]

Grabs

Grabs Are The Momentum Changer

becausfoxisrunningaroundanddoingstuffandthenhemessesupand
GRAB







he has no options

 

[Mokumo]

but really though

if youre up a stock or something and all you need is a knee (heh) to win, on a small enough stage maybe you can take advantage of your invincibility frames to land a grab or knee or something.

just jump of the stage dude youll win

 

[Metal Reeper]

S2J is amazian.

 

[Roneblaster]

Two part question!

S2J sux *** and go **** yourself!

Omfg that segment was so ****ing funny the first time i saw it. I actually busted out in tears after that line. I still use it at every possible opportunity.




What do you guys do with ur invincibility frames at the start of a new stock? The last time i played i noticed i NEVER did **** with my invinc frames.

 

[Divinokage]

Well if they are on the ledge, not much you can do safely.. But if they are trying to avoid of you in someway then you gotta read them quickly. =P Can't really say anything more specific than that lol.

 

[Windrose]

What was in those posts before tec0 edited it? now the conversation makes no sense......

I have a quesiton for s2j.
How do you practice by yourself when you're home alone? (and how should other falcons practice against cpus when there are no oppponents to play against? ) Do you agree with that "how to train your falcon" video?

dude nobody outside of the US [excluding Jeapie, <3 Jeapie] plays Falcon

I guess no one else understands the excess manliness of his being

Which is strange because he's better in PAL

I play Falcon.

 

[Deleted member]

felt like i missed something really funny from atlus, oh well

@mafia: idk if ur talking from a falcon or peach point of view but resetting the situation is basically getting the **** away 80% of the time through roll/ wavedash out of shield/ buffer jump out of shield/ jump so you get hit by shine on purpose then run the hell away

the other 20% is only if you are positive you can counterattack from badly done aerials. It is less and less effective vs better players but good players still do very minor mistakes that get them punished.

Shield grabbing is done 80% of the times by n00bs, 0% of the time by players getting better, and 10% of the time by good players when they know that their opponents barely messed up an aerial and you know for sure you can grab them

for example, a fox who short hop back-airs but doesn't b-air at the last second and doesn't float away from grab range is grabable

if you are talking about peach, i'd say hope they n-air you when you are at low percents and you crouch cancel d-smash and they hold down

==

@roneblaster- i am ****ing bad with invincibility frames and usually whiff. I'd say use it to establish center stage though easily but I wanna just run at them and hit them

at the same time, when I work my *** off to kill someone, i usually get hit right away when they respawn and die, invincibility sucks

==

@windrose- i don't have a copy of melee but if i did i would focus on being able to do whatever you want to do. Unfortunately its not as good to practice on computers, they don't DI your throws they seem to never tech, etc

i'd practice movement at the very least, make sure you are fluid and can l-cancel your moves properly + do stuff quickly out of l-cancelled moves

know the distance of tech rolls for example fox/falco/shiek and be sure you can punish them. dumb to read someone and whiff badly

falcons a good character if you are a lazy bum like me and don't want to practice because once you 'get it' you just need to warm up in friendlies and then you are usually good to go unless you haven't played for weeks/months

 

[Elliot]

What parts of the controller are active for shake outs?

Do you have any shake out advice?

 

[Mokumo]

like getting out of a grab?

one of the most crucial parts is the control stick. the way it works is that you have to touch each cardinal direction, but not the same one twice before youve done all the other ones. in other words, do circles really fast in either direction with the control stick. I think at the same time you can press A/B/Y/X in some order, although im not sure if the same rule applies to the buttons as the control stick.

 

[0Room]

Yeah, and after you're thrown you can wiggle your control stick to resestablish control over your character
Peaches do this all the time

Windrose you are another exception then
and just practice movement, like edge cancel stuff, and wavedash off the ledge onto and off of the stage
WD OoS
Tech skill in combos and stuff

That's pretty much it

also

I would say yes, but Falcon dittos are homogay.

wtf

 

[Strong Badam]

check ssbm statistics list for grab break info

 

[Metal Reeper]

Rub your hand over ABXY. Fastest way. and wiggle them sticks.

 

[Divinokage]

I just rotate my control stick extremely fast and i can get out of grabs really fast.

 

[Mokumo]

Don't wiggle the stick to break out. Circles.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

felt like i missed something really funny from atlus, oh well

@mafia: idk if ur talking from a falcon or peach point of view but resetting the situation is basically getting the **** away 80% of the time through roll/ wavedash out of shield/ buffer jump out of shield/ jump so you get hit by shine on purpose then run the hell away

the other 20% is only if you are positive you can counterattack from badly done aerials. It is less and less effective vs better players but good players still do very minor mistakes that get them punished.

Shield grabbing is done 80% of the times by n00bs, 0% of the time by players getting better, and 10% of the time by good players when they know that their opponents barely messed up an aerial and you know for sure you can grab them

for example, a fox who short hop back-airs but doesn't b-air at the last second and doesn't float away from grab range is grabable

if you are talking about peach, i'd say hope they n-air you when you are at low percents and you crouch cancel d-smash and they hold down

Haha, I know enough about peach to deal with foxes. I'm coming to the falcon boards for advice on my falcon :3
I'm just not sure how to properly deal with fox jumping in on me. I hope a proper response allows me to punish, but maybe I need to bait a ****up from him or something.
What I'm asking is, what opening says to you "reverse the momentum", and what says "reset the momentum"? I understand the means for both (TBH, a little foggy on punishes. I feel like fox gets away if I go for dash away grab on his nair approach, and my mixups just don't compete with his priority), but I'm worried I try to just beat out fox too much.
Thanks again.

 

[0Room]

Oh oh oh oh oh
I know I know

I just played a lot of falcon fox
vs PP and LoZr

Basically
If Fox is jumping in on you

You run the **** away
you run the **** away right now
But DD->Grab doesn't really work except at a certain distance
it takes 7 frames for grab to come out but it also takes 7 frames for l canceled nair, and 1 frame for shine
So you have 1 frame of wiggle room if you start the grab at the same time they land
Though as Winston says under me you can run away and then start the grab before they land

But run away->dair/bair/pivot nair works WONDERS
Nair->knockdown->tech chase is great
But they can CC the nair and spotdodge, LoZr did that to me all the damn time

But basically you wanna outspace their nair and **** them for it

That's all for now folks
Tune in next time to "how I got *****" for more tips on what to do against spacies!

 

[Winston]

The window is bigger than 1 frame because you can start the grab before they land from the nair

><

 

[0Room]

Yeah which is why the attacks work as well
I dunno it's just mad hard and that's the way I think of it
As really difficult and there's probably better options that are easier

though grabs are irreplaceable
I dunno I like to exaggerate things to explain my feelings but when giving advice I guess I gotta give like straight facts


Also
The reason I don't like it is because the room you get while running away to grab is very small
Because his nair speed is very close to your run speed so you need some extra room unless you pivot grab
but that's hard because of how far the nair hits out
You know what I mean? It's really specific timing/spacing

 

[The Irish Mafia]

thoughts on crouch canceling the nair?

 

[0Room]

uno momento

From the Index thread
47 under Spacies) Magus on options from CC 11/26/08
87 under spacies)Magus on CC grab Fox's Nair 11/27/08

Just the first things that came to mind
Though obviously this isn't the golden rule of what to do

 

[Deleted member]

me and lovage always have amazing sick close last game last hit sets

that never got recorded

like today

 

[Windrose]

thanks,, i'll keep those things in mind when practicing...i can't believe s2j doesn't have melee....somebody get this guy melee! U can get it for free nowadays...
how does everyone get so good without having a copy of the game??!?!


won't doing circles on your controller damage the control stick easily?

 

[Roneblaster]

s2j is the one

 

[Dr Peepee]

Ohhhh I like this thread.


What are some approaches people(s2j in particular =p) use on fox? I can get reads a lot but I often scratch my head about how to exactly execute. I like knee approaches a lot actually but I feel like there should be more than that nair and JC grab.

*hopes for something using momentum

 

[Brookman]

approach with sh gentleman, win games.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

uno momento

From the Index thread
47 under Spacies) Magus on options from CC 11/26/08
87 under spacies)Magus on CC grab Fox's Nair 11/27/08

Just the first things that came to mind
Though obviously this isn't the golden rule of what to do

Oh the ganon CC jab thing reminded me, idk if y'all know but if you hold down to crouch and then slide the stick back so you're crouching but holding down and the way you aren't facing, then hitting A makes you jab. I use this to CC to Gentleman sometimes, mostly against falcon, but i suppose it could work vs fox.

 

[Deleted member]

i don't know what im doing when i approach fox and you should wait for okami to post old tourneyvids of me vs lovage in a post-genesis set

in my opinion though, if a fox is obscenely camping like a homoe then its way easier to approach for me for some reason

 

[Dulren]

Ohhhh I like this thread.


What are some approaches people(s2j in particular =p) use on fox? I can get reads a lot but I often scratch my head about how to exactly execute. I like knee approaches a lot actually but I feel like there should be more than that nair and JC grab.

*hopes for something using momentum

Uhh, nope, you pretty much nailed it. Well, if you're talking about reasonably safe approaches, that is >_>. Sometimes late uair --> gentleman will catch them off guard, but it isn't actually too safe. I find Nair to be the key against Fox mostly, though. Just spacing, spacing, spacing (which I highly doubt YOU have an issue with).

 

[Aussierob123]

lol just because the only strong contenders in PAL aren't falcon mains =/= there are no PAL falcons. far from true, we just aren't very good loool. there's like 4 or 5 falcon mains in AUS which is saying something, seeing as our scene isn't so big. I just gotta stop getting ****ed up by shiek.

When you play PAL you would think that falcon would be way different, but it doesn't change much. Sure fox is weaker, but 1 or 2 more hits in his endless stupid combos and his usmash has the same result. marth can't spike, but he can still edgeguard you like a mother****. Falco is almost unchanged (his dair doesn't spike on the second half. big deal lol just time your dairs), and jiggs + peach are unchanged.

The only significant change is sheik, but if the sheik is playing really well you can still get tech chased (and often still do), and her uair can combo falcon really well in PAL so shes still gay.

Edit:
And another thing, am I the only falcon main that HATES it when people who don't main falcon are like "lolz fun matchup" *picks falcon* in a tourney match? FALCON DITTOS ARE NOT FUN. (imo...)

 

[Divinokage]

I might have to do Falcon dittos vs Falcon mains actually.. because i havent been able to beat any of them recently.. it's really annoying. =/

 

[Aussierob123]

lol kage if you're doing it just to beat falcon mains you'd be better off learning falco or sheik or something.

 

[Winston]

Uhh, nope, you pretty much nailed it. Well, if you're talking about reasonably safe approaches, that is >_>. Sometimes late uair --> gentleman will catch them off guard, but it isn't actually too safe. I find Nair to be the key against Fox mostly, though. Just spacing, spacing, spacing (which I highly doubt YOU have an issue with).

early sh uair!

it can hit them while they are running around on the ground earlier than either knee or nair, or if they are jumping.

 

[Aussierob123]

I actually really like early sh uair as an approach because it can mess up people's approaches (if they like to come in with aerials) and it can be good if you can predict people's defensive game (i.e. some people hold their shield at the edge and jump / double jump out of it to get away or avoid grabs). Of course this probably only works in lower level play lol. Hax uses it though.

 

[Deleted member]

Uhh, nope, you pretty much nailed it. Well, if you're talking about reasonably safe approaches, that is >_>. Sometimes late uair --> gentleman will catch them off guard, but it isn't actually too safe. I find Nair to be the key against Fox mostly, though. Just spacing, spacing, spacing (which I highly doubt YOU have an issue with).

hmmmmm

kinda

thinking about the approaches question, there is no one approach that works, but there are at least 9-10 that COULD work and to me its all about mixing it up/thinking ahead/ reading opponents

to quote mango, sometimes the 'best' option isn't the 'right' option

sorry for being general but u guys should be creative IMO, i'm more of a kookster falcon so stuff that works really well for me isn't as good for other people IMO. don't copy silentspectre's cool tricks because only he can pull it off really well and just work to your strengths and develop your own style

for example, i'd do weird stuff like running around like an idiot, cancelling dashes with ducks at weird places, and w/e

 

[Aussierob123]

I often watch your vids s2j and find myself wondering "....what the **** is he thinking or planning" loool. But that playstyle works so well because it's so hard to predict.

 

[Divinokage]

Heh.. that's why melee is beautiful, so many different styles you can appreciate. The cookie cutter stuff is usually kinda bad actually because it's easy to get out off, you gotta get creative a lot these days. And I mean ya sometimes the decision someone makes doesn't make much sense but I mean in the end if it pays off, hell why the **** not? =P

 

[0Room]

thinking about the approaches question, there is no one approach that works, but there are at least 9-10 that COULD work and to me its all about mixing it up/thinking ahead/ reading opponents

to quote mango, sometimes the 'best' option isn't the 'right' option

I agree
But that's actually a really interesting quote, I've spent my entire smash career trying to find the best option for a situation

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Soul searching

early sh uair!

it can hit them while they are running around on the ground earlier than either knee or nair, or if they are jumping.

I need to use this more but I can only reliably get it with control stick a
Definitely useful against annoying dairs

And another thing, am I the only falcon main that HATES it when people who don't main falcon are like "lolz fun matchup" *picks falcon* in a tourney match? FALCON DITTOS ARE NOT FUN. (imo...)

lmao nah brah PP did that to me for like 2 days straight
Which is understandable because when he used Falco I died in one laser

It's pretty common
Just say outright that you're bad at the match up then win

Oh the ganon CC jab thing reminded me, idk if y'all know but if you hold down to crouch and then slide the stick back so you're crouching but holding down and the way you aren't facing, then hitting A makes you jab. I use this to CC to Gentleman sometimes, mostly against falcon, but i suppose it could work vs fox.

Hmm I did not know that
Thanks

somebody get this guy melee! U can get it for free nowadays...
how does everyone get so good without having a copy of the game??!?

Lol let me quote what I said to ZIO

You'll learn eventually that this game has 2 modes: By yourself/at home, and at a tournament.

The things you know are only applicable in tournament, so the amount of effective training you do only marginally increases your performance around other people. The only way to get better is to play and play and play and ask people "What could I do better?"
And then **** them

Meaning
Once you kind of get a handle on things, you could totally not play by yourself and be fine

What are some approaches people(s2j in particular =p) use on fox? I can get reads a lot but I often scratch my head about how to exactly execute. I like knee approaches a lot actually but I feel like there should be more than that nair and JC grab.

Are you saying that you're getting reads as Falcon from an approaching fox?
Meaning that you're approaching a Fox and you're wondering what to do?

 

[Wenbobular]

Falcon dittos are pretty dumb haha

Also when I played s2j at Pound5 all I could really think about was how he was somehow way faster than me at Nairing, even though I usually win Nair battles vs most other Falcons I play ...

 

[Deleted member]

i do not like that matchup at ALL unless the other falcon is bad

 

[0Room]

I say I don't like it and I don't
But I love it at the same time