Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 ('Terminal' - the 17th for Elite / 18th for non-Elite)

[Delta-cod]

PP90 doesn't need Rapid Fire.

 

[Zatchiel]

Yeah, I'd throw on extended mag or RDS. Extended mag on the MSR once you get Overkill Pro and the necessary weapon level on it.

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, I was thinking about Extended Mags, but I have SoH so I rarely use the bottom of my clip as is. I'll try a sight (I prefer Holo > RD, get @ me).

 

[Matt07]

they said before that they were going to buff m16 and mp5, it just hasnt come yet

I read on the Call of Duty Elite forums that they're planning on buffing guns, IF they fix their major issues such as lag compensation, etc. Hopefully they do patch the M16, and MP5 before Black Ops 2. I would love for the M16 to get buffed right now, it's the worst gun in the game...

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

For some ridiculous reason, I decided to play solo in GW.

Using an MP5.

 

[O D I N]

For some ridiculous reason, I decided to play solo in GW.

Using an MP5.

You're a mad man.

 

[Bones0]

x D

 

[Hot_ArmS]

I joined a lvl 35 clan just to get the clan emblems and titles. I got like 9 emblems right when they accepted me and they all look pretty cool.

I can't wait till they work their butts off more and get me those lvl 50 emblems so then I can leave afterwards

btw, their clan name is "Tryhard Nation!" lol

 

[O D I N]

I joined a lvl 35 clan just to get the clan emblems and titles. I got like 9 emblems right when they accepted me and they all look pretty cool.

I can't wait till they work their butts off more and get me those lvl 50 emblems so then I can leave afterwards

btw, their clan name is "Tryhard Nation!" lol

You traitorous swine.

 

[Delta-cod]

Troll Arms strikes again.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Conclusions I've come to regarding FFA in this game:

1. Sitrep pro = god mode

2. People camp too much

3. Spawns are dreadful (as per usual)

Final thoughts: gay

 

[Hot_ArmS]

Tryhards tac inserting in hc Dom

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Dude...they were absolutely freaking out when I kept RPGing them hahahahaha.

I went into game chat just because I was 100% sure that I'd get a reaction out of them.

 

[Bones0]

SitRep pro has honestly ruined the game for me. I have to crouch walk constantly in SnD, and kids who use it in FFA just get kills twice as fast without having to worry about people sneaking up on them.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

I say it better be that good cause of how hard it is to get (inb4 sitrep pro in mw2)

 

[Bones0]

The fact that it's "hard" to get doesn't really make it okay that it completely breaks the game. It's almost worse that it's hard to get because it just means kids who never prestige and/or boost get to abuse it while others are left getting sound*****d helplessly.

 

[SnackAttack]

I mean... boosting is one thing to be upset about, but not people who choose not to prestige. That's the benefit to not prestiging, keeping all the pro perks/max leveled guns.

You're weighing out having all of that, vs the game getting stale.

 

[Delta-cod]

Grinding gets stale too.

SitRep Pro does not break the game. Use Dead Silence plz.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

I guess since bones plays search mostly I can see where his frustrations come from

alot of people camp in search and don't have to worry about not having dead silence if they use sitrep cause well they're not moving lol it makes it a game of who can tolerate camping the longest/crouchwalking the most

I paid money for my headsets though so I'd wanna ***** them out to the fullest

Unless I'm snack and always break my headsets

 

[Bones0]

I mean... boosting is one thing to be upset about, but not people who choose not to prestige. That's the benefit to not prestiging, keeping all the pro perks/max leveled guns.

You're weighing out having all of that, vs the game getting stale.

I'm not saying prestiging is a problem. I'm saying SitRep makes it a problem because not prestiging keeps you from having a broken pro version of SitRep.

Grinding gets stale too.

SitRep Pro does not break the game. Use Dead Silence plz.

You know SitRep Pro completely counters DS now, right? If you use SitRep Pro, everyone with DS sounds like a normal person. It makes flanking impossible, let alone rushing.

I guess since bones plays search mostly I can see where his frustrations come from

alot of people camp in search and don't have to worry about not having dead silence if they use sitrep cause well they're not moving lol it makes it a game of who can tolerate camping the longest/crouchwalking the most

I paid money for my headsets though so I'd wanna ***** them out to the fullest

Unless I'm snack and always break my headsets

I have a SteelSeries headset, but I'd rather not be playing a game where there is no form of movement that doesn't immediately alert enemies. You shouldn't be able to hear opponents ever because it just promotes camping. I would never have bought the game if that were the case. Having to use DS is dumb in its own right since it just wastes the third perk for everyone (unless you're not trying hard). Even so, I was content with everyone using DS as long as it meant strategic play. Now that SitRep Pro counters even DS, the game plays like there's an Advanced UAV up constantly.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Yesterday was the first FFA game I've ever played with sitrep pro and I went 30-5 with an MP5.

Sitrep pro + Tritton AX 720s = cheating.

You pretty much always have the advantage in gunfights with sitrep, that's the part I don't like. There's literally no challenge involved with it.

1. Listen
2. Pinpoint enemy location
3. Wait them out/ADS
4. Kill

Rinse and repeat.

 

[Wretched]

Sitrep pro absolutely makes me want to buy this game again.

Tell you guys wut, if I get a better internet connection anytime soon, I'll buy MW3 and actually do stuff with team SWF again.

I miss Badger, Odin, Mad, Badger, Hotarms, Thundah, Bob, Stephen, Badger, Odin, Thundah, Deltafishtrianglesquad.

 

[Bones0]

You know what would also make CoD better, tripping. It's more realistic, and it adds a whole new element to the game.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

Half those people don't even play anymore lol

Also i come home from work today and my Nat type is open for the FIRST TIME ever. Miracles do happen

 

[Bones0]

Half those people don't even play anymore lol

Also i come home from work today and my Nat type is open for the FIRST TIME ever. Miracles do happen

Until you find out someone hacked it open so they could steal your bank account info.

Also, congrats for being the biggest camper on my FL according to the Accolade for spending most time in one place. lol

 

[SnackAttack]

Sitrep pro absolutely makes me want to buy this game again.

Tell you guys wut, if I get a better internet connection anytime soon, I'll buy MW3 and actually do stuff with team SWF again.

I miss Badger, Odin, Mad, Badger, Hotarms, Thundah, Bob, Stephen, Badger, Odin, Thundah, Deltafishtrianglesquad.

.........Oh

 

[Wretched]

Your name IS in my post. I've had this user title ever since you said you were back.

ALSO ANYONE ENJOY MY MESSAGE?

 

[Delta-cod]

Bones, SitRep countering Dead Silence is to make Dead silence not stupid. It did that in MW2, and it was meant to do that in this game too. Besides, people using SitRep are still really loud.

By the way, if people are camping so hard, they're not moving, which means if you're on defense you win. Also, people camp in predictable predictable spots, so it's really not that big of an issue. I find chokepoint camping much more impossible to get past than corner camping (hence why smoke grenades are my favorites <3), and chokepoint camping does not rely on sound. I find that rushing in search always serves me well because it prevents campers from getting the time to get to their little hidey-holes. The longer a round goes on, the higher my tendency to lose is.

Like, camping is lame regardless of your perk setup. If people weren't using SitRep, then you'd probably be complaining about Portable Radars, since those serve an incredibly similar purpose.

 

[O D I N]

Your name IS in my post. I've had this user title ever since you said you were back.

ALSO ANYONE ENJOY MY MESSAGE?

Not really.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

I played for 4 hours last night using sitrep pro

I digress, that ****s broken

 

[Delta-cod]

Well, I never said SitRep wasn't the best 3rd tier perk.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

I got hatemail for "camping" when really its just what fawx said

listen, turn accordingly, wait in ads

 

[Wretched]

Well, I never said SitRep wasn't the best 3rd tier perk.

Hey, Delta, does Sitrep really cancel Ninja in MW2? If so, I'll get that **** right now.

 

[Bones0]

Bones, SitRep countering Dead Silence is to make Dead silence not stupid. It did that in MW2, and it was meant to do that in this game too. Besides, people using SitRep are still really loud.

By the way, if people are camping so hard, they're not moving, which means if you're on defense you win. Also, people camp in predictable predictable spots, so it's really not that big of an issue. I find chokepoint camping much more impossible to get past than corner camping (hence why smoke grenades are my favorites <3), and chokepoint camping does not rely on sound. I find that rushing in search always serves me well because it prevents campers from getting the time to get to their little hidey-holes. The longer a round goes on, the higher my tendency to lose is.

Like, camping is lame regardless of your perk setup. If people weren't using SitRep, then you'd probably be complaining about Portable Radars, since those serve an incredibly similar purpose.

SitRep Pro in MW3 isn't even comparable to MW2. This makes me think you haven't actually used it since it was changed. Sure, people using SitRep are also loud, but that still just dumbs down the game. Okay, so we can both hear each other instead of just one of us hearing each other. That still breaks the game because bad players can just sound***** to prevent getting surprised. Like I said, it's like playing with an Advanced UAV up at all times. Can you imagine how dumb that would be to play? "Oh, 3 of them are over there. Wait for them to walk through that choke point then shoot them." Meanwhile the other team is saying the same thing until one of them (usually offense) either gets bored, impatient, or has to try to plant/defuse, in which case they just get destroyed 90% of the time.

Yes, dealing with SitRep is easier on defense, but it still makes the game less fun because you just sprint as far as you can without getting near them, then you just have to lay down and hope they walk in front of you. There's no strategy involved. You can no longer try to flank behind them and take out a huge number of people. You have to resort to petty headglitches and camping spots because anything else is telegraphed immediately to everyone.

I agree chokepoint camping can be annoying (it's primarily because everyone plays 6v6; with less players, you can't just sit back and cover every possible route). I definitely don't think (even with 6 players) that it's impossible to overcome. First of all, one or both teams usually have a few down after just a few seconds into the game. That immediately creates holes in their setup as to which chokepoints they can cover, and as they move to compensate for dead teammates, their movement inevitably opens up other chokepoints. SitRep enables players to essentially watch their own backs, so there's no reason for them to move to compensate for these situations. They can just wait until they hear someone behind them and then turn around.

Secondly, you can throw tactical or lethal equipment to pretty much every chokepoint camping spot. I frequently Flash-C4 someone out of their favorite camping spot round 1, and they rarely go back to that spot again. I would even argue that vs. good players, trying to camp chokepoints is so predictable that it's bound to get you killed by ordinance simply being tossed your way.

Thirdly, even if their whole team is camping chokepoints, they can't literally just look at one spot on the map. In a worst case scenario, they have to check left and right because they don't know exactly where you're coming from. This at least gives you a chance of ADSing around corners and winning the gunfight. Even this is made impossible by SitRep because standing up even for a few steps immediately lets them know where to look. Yeah, you could theoretically crouch walk into ADS fights, but it severely restricts how much time you have to work with on offense or defusing on defense. If someone plants the bomb and kills your team when you're a decent distance away, you autolose. You can't 1v3 clutch because the second you kill someone they know where you are. This is already the case obviously, but with SitRep you can no longer quickly run from that area before they get to you. They will immediately know where you are and can either waste 15 more seconds off the clock while you crouch walk back towards them, or they will just flash/stun you based on your footsteps.

I do complain about Portable Radars, but they are effectively countered by Assassin. When I get killed by a PR camper R1, I just put on Assassin, flank him (silently), and kill him. PRs also give off that little ping beep so you at least know when you pop up on someone's PR. You have no way of knowing when someone is soundwhoring you with SitRep, and if switching to a DS clsas was still a valid solution, then I wouldn't be complaining.

I understand people think that every perk needs to have a counter so they view SitRep as DS's counter, but when you consider what it would be like if you could only hear people's footsteps with SitRep, DS would be the counter. DS is the counter for a perk everyone has at all times, much like Assassin because there is almost always a UAV, HBS, or PR active on the map. It's just become so ***-backwards how the game works. Everything that gets added to the game only takes away from a player's ability. UAVs, HBSs, and PRs don't enable players to find others more quickly. They force everyone to use Assassin. Second tier perk is immediately trashed for the large majority of games. Not to mention how half of the **** in the game becomes useless. All of the above, obviously, but also Marksman and Thermal. Neither are particularly good, and they become almost useless because everyone feels forced to use Assassin. Then they make it so you can hear people walking, but give you a perk that makes you silent. Why not just make everyone silent so we can use a cool third tier perk like Stalker? I can deal with Stalker or Quickdraw or SoH no matter what class setup I'm using. Some may have a slight edge over others, but it's not unreasonably difficult for any perk combination to deal with any of those.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

delta team, awaiting your response

 

[Bones0]

"We were told you were the best..."

 

[Delta-cod]

Hey, Delta, does Sitrep really cancel Ninja in MW2? If so, I'll get that **** right now.

Yes.

SitRep Pro in MW3 isn't even comparable to MW2. This makes me think you haven't actually used it since it was changed. Sure, people using SitRep are also loud, but that still just dumbs down the game. Okay, so we can both hear each other instead of just one of us hearing each other. That still breaks the game because bad players can just sound***** to prevent getting surprised. Like I said, it's like playing with an Advanced UAV up at all times. Can you imagine how dumb that would be to play? "Oh, 3 of them are over there. Wait for them to walk through that choke point then shoot them." Meanwhile the other team is saying the same thing until one of them (usually offense) either gets bored, impatient, or has to try to plant/defuse, in which case they just get destroyed 90% of the time.

No, I actually do understand how stupid that is. As someone who would use SitRep on ALL of his classes, I one hundred percent understand how using the perk works.

That is ALSO how Search and Destroy works. Any gametype with an objective works in a similar manner. The team on offense or is losing is FORCED to approach the objective. This inherently LIMITS where members of that team can go, which makes it RIDICULOUSLY easy to pinpoint where they'll be coming from. You don't need SitRep to know where people will be coming from in Search, unless your team got rocked and is down to 1 or 2 members. It's nearly always impossible to break through an enemy team's defenses in Search once they get setup. This is why I rush to break the border-line before they get the chance.

Yes, dealing with SitRep is easier on defense, but it still makes the game less fun because you just sprint as far as you can without getting near them, then you just have to lay down and hope they walk in front of you. There's no strategy involved. You can no longer try to flank behind them and take out a huge number of people. You have to resort to petty headglitches and camping spots because anything else is telegraphed immediately to everyone.

Dealing with ANYTHING on defense in Search is easy. You literally have no obligation but to point your gun at a place where the enemy team has to cross to reach the bomb site you're guarding. That's it. That's the strategy. Same thing applies to Demolition, but things get more complicated because there's respawns, which allows for spawn issues and support killstreaks to come into effect. Trying to flank them is an inferior strategy, again, unless the remaining numbers on either team has gone down.

I agree chokepoint camping can be annoying (it's primarily because everyone plays 6v6; with less players, you can't just sit back and cover every possible route). I definitely don't think (even with 6 players) that it's impossible to overcome. First of all, one or both teams usually have a few down after just a few seconds into the game. That immediately creates holes in their setup as to which chokepoints they can cover, and as they move to compensate for dead teammates, their movement inevitably opens up other chokepoints. SitRep enables players to essentially watch their own backs, so there's no reason for them to move to compensate for these situations. They can just wait until they hear someone behind them and then turn around.

An entire team chokepoint camping with, say, an ACR or Type or whatever is nearly impossible to break through. They don't need SitRep to cover their backs because nobody can get behind them in the first place. That would involve people getting through the other chokepoints that the team is guarding.

If people are dying early on in the round, then you actually have less of a reason to move. Unless you're on offense, of course. But in order to have killed off some people, you must have either rushed them to break the lines early on, or blown the enemy team up. Either way, you have access to the other side and more wiggle room, and then an entire round left to sneak around. You shouldn't be complaining.

If you're on offense and you make a hole in the other team, and they're not moving to compensate because they have SitRep and "don't need to", plant the bomb. Oh boy, look! They now have to move towards you. Or lose.

Secondly, you can throw tactical or lethal equipment to pretty much every chokepoint camping spot. I frequently Flash-C4 someone out of their favorite camping spot round 1, and they rarely go back to that spot again. I would even argue that vs. good players, trying to camp chokepoints is so predictable that it's bound to get you killed by ordinance simply being tossed your way.

C4 is not an incredibly long ranged throwing equipment. Flash grenades are inconsistent and don't last forever. Chokepoint camping typically occurs from a head-glitching spot or other point of good cover, far away from the nearest corner/wall that you can hide behind. I mean, if you're good enough to reliably perfect flash someone behind a box, advance down the long, barren wasteland of the chokepoint, and C4 the poor sap before he can see you and shoot you, more power to you. You must be a god of throwing things.

Thirdly, even if their whole team is camping chokepoints, they can't literally just look at one spot on the map. In a worst case scenario, they have to check left and right because they don't know exactly where you're coming from. This at least gives you a chance of ADSing around corners and winning the gunfight. Even this is made impossible by SitRep because standing up even for a few steps immediately lets them know where to look. Yeah, you could theoretically crouch walk into ADS fights, but it severely restricts how much time you have to work with on offense or defusing on defense. If someone plants the bomb and kills your team when you're a decent distance away, you autolose. You can't 1v3 clutch because the second you kill someone they know where you are. This is already the case obviously, but with SitRep you can no longer quickly run from that area before they get to you. They will immediately know where you are and can either waste 15 more seconds off the clock while you crouch walk back towards them, or they will just flash/stun you based on your footsteps.

You're joking, right. You're saying that there's typically MORE THAN SIX chokepoint in a level that must be watched. That's a joke. Most maps, especially when your advance is forced to an objective, have 3, maybe four, MAX. It does not take an entire team to watch all the chokepoints, and they certainly don't have to look in different directions. After all, you're not spawning behind them.

If you need to defend/defuse a bomb, you NEVER have the liberty of complaining about the enemy knowing where you are. Because there's, again, an obvious location as to where you need to be. Clutching a 1v3 when the bomb is already planted is practically impossible, unless you're the one defending the bomb. Even then, the other team would have to be practically ******** in order to let you win, because you'd need to kill 3 of them, and they'd know where you were after the 1st death, regardless of if they're using sitrep or not.

Also, like you said before, if you need to approach the bomb site, the enemy is likely camping it. Which, like you said before, means that they're in extremely obvious and predictable locations. You should be able to deal with them, right?

I do complain about Portable Radars, but they are effectively countered by Assassin. When I get killed by a PR camper R1, I just put on Assassin, flank him (silently), and kill him. PRs also give off that little ping beep so you at least know when you pop up on someone's PR. You have no way of knowing when someone is soundwhoring you with SitRep, and if switching to a DS clsas was still a valid solution, then I wouldn't be complaining.

So, equipment usage forcing you to a perk is okay, but perk usage isn't? There are plenty of ways to beat people using SitRep, lol. Besides, if they're really corner camping you like you say, their third perk doesn't actually matter.

By the way, try ADS walking with Stalker. It keeps you quiet, lets you move quickly, and gives you the ADS bonus you're looking for. :O

I understand people think that every perk needs to have a counter so they view SitRep as DS's counter, but when you consider what it would be like if you could only hear people's footsteps with SitRep, DS would be the counter. DS is the counter for a perk everyone has at all times, much like Assassin because there is almost always a UAV, HBS, or PR active on the map. It's just become so ***-backwards how the game works. Everything that gets added to the game only takes away from a player's ability. UAVs, HBSs, and PRs don't enable players to find others more quickly. They force everyone to use Assassin. Second tier perk is immediately trashed for the large majority of games. Not to mention how half of the **** in the game becomes useless. All of the above, obviously, but also Marksman and Thermal. Neither are particularly good, and they become almost useless because everyone feels forced to use Assassin. Then they make it so you can hear people walking, but give you a perk that makes you silent. Why not just make everyone silent so we can use a cool third tier perk like Stalker? I can deal with Stalker or Quickdraw or SoH no matter what class setup I'm using. Some may have a slight edge over others, but it's not unreasonably difficult for any perk combination to deal with any of those.

Why the hell should there be a free perk that lets people run around silently anyways? That's not being sneaky. I remember when flanking people actually required effort, not a Ninja/Dead Silence class to let you SPRINT around the enemy team without making noise.

And obviously perk/equipment balance needs to be redone, lol. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

 

[Bones0]

Yes.

Actually, it barely cancels it at all.

MW2: SitRep Pro vs. Ninja
MW3: SitRep Pro vs. Dead Silence

No, I actually do understand how stupid that is. As someone who would use SitRep on ALL of his classes, I one hundred percent understand how using the perk works.

That is ALSO how Search and Destroy works. Any gametype with an objective works in a similar manner. The team on offense or is losing is FORCED to approach the objective. This inherently LIMITS where members of that team can go, which makes it RIDICULOUSLY easy to pinpoint where they'll be coming from. You don't need SitRep to know where people will be coming from in Search, unless your team got rocked and is down to 1 or 2 members. It's nearly always impossible to break through an enemy team's defenses in Search once they get setup. This is why I rush to break the border-line before they get the chance.

Just because there is an objective doesn't mean you're forced to go towards it. In fact, I would say I make it a habit to get to the objective with the longest round-about way possible because it keeps me safe from people who camp the objectives. For instance, on Hardhat offense I frequently flank through the left past the bulldozer and come up behind people. Do people try to cut me off? Obviously. But it's not like they are ever in some clearly superior position when doing so. It's certainly not impossible to break any defense as long as you can win gunfights, and gunfights will never be unwinnable as long as you don't walk around corners without the proper precautions.

Dealing with ANYTHING on defense in Search is easy. You literally have no obligation but to point your gun at a place where the enemy team has to cross to reach the bomb site you're guarding. That's it. That's the strategy. Same thing applies to Demolition, but things get more complicated because there's respawns, which allows for spawn issues and support killstreaks to come into effect. Trying to flank them is an inferior strategy, again, unless the remaining numbers on either team has gone down.

LOL This kind of mentality is exactly why most people suck hard at SnD. They just try to camp and then they get flanked by good players. If they camp far enough back that they can't be flanked or flashed/stunned, then it means they are too far back to protect both bombs. Obviously there are some exceptions. Dome in particular is just a bad SnD map because you have no options, and if you have a 6v2 situation or something, yeah, you can just out-camp the last 2 guys. It also happens when offense is trying to camp. Every second that ticks by is in the defense's favor, so they have no reason to rush. One team refusing to engage the other at all doesn't mean the other team is camping.

An entire team chokepoint camping with, say, an ACR or Type or whatever is nearly impossible to break through. They don't need SitRep to cover their backs because nobody can get behind them in the first place. That would involve people getting through the other chokepoints that the team is guarding.

If defense can be an impenetrable force like you say, then why does everyone use SitRep in SnD? Surely it's just a waste of a perk when they could be using Marksman to better guard chokepoints.

If people are dying early on in the round, then you actually have less of a reason to move. Unless you're on offense, of course. But in order to have killed off some people, you must have either rushed them to break the lines early on, or blown the enemy team up. Either way, you have access to the other side and more wiggle room, and then an entire round left to sneak around. You shouldn't be complaining.

Except you can't sneak around because walking is too loud... derp

If you're on offense and you make a hole in the other team, and they're not moving to compensate because they have SitRep and "don't need to", plant the bomb. Oh boy, look! They now have to move towards you. Or lose.

Punching a hole in the defense doesn't automatically grant you access to a bomb site. You can rarely plant before they have at least 3 people down.

C4 is not an incredibly long ranged throwing equipment. Flash grenades are inconsistent and don't last forever. Chokepoint camping typically occurs from a head-glitching spot or other point of good cover, far away from the nearest corner/wall that you can hide behind. I mean, if you're good enough to reliably perfect flash someone behind a box, advance down the long, barren wasteland of the chokepoint, and C4 the poor sap before he can see you and shoot you, more power to you. You must be a god of throwing things.

I must suck at camping choke points then because I can't recall many spots where I can sit uncontested and ADS the whole round.

You're joking, right. You're saying that there's typically MORE THAN SIX chokepoint in a level that must be watched. That's a joke. Most maps, especially when your advance is forced to an objective, have 3, maybe four, MAX. It does not take an entire team to watch all the chokepoints, and they certainly don't have to look in different directions. After all, you're not spawning behind them.

Resistance is one of the campiest maps and there are 4 choke points. B hall, gate, middle house, and staircase. Among all of those though are multiple places you can shoot from. If you're coming from the gate, you can peek over the top or out the side. If you're in the house you can peek through the 2nd floor window, 1st floor window, or 1st floor doorway. So even with so few chokepoints for the offense to work, they can quite easily poke out somewhere to get a kill or two. And the only time they'd have to resort to this is if no one is able to get a flash/stun in the beginning of the round and capitalize on that. On a map like Arkaden or Hardhat, both teams have the opportunity to flash/stun and kill each other just seconds into the game. Camping far enough back to avoid that risk just yields more map control to the other team.

If you need to defend/defuse a bomb, you NEVER have the liberty of complaining about the enemy knowing where you are. Because there's, again, an obvious location as to where you need to be. Clutching a 1v3 when the bomb is already planted is practically impossible, unless you're the one defending the bomb. Even then, the other team would have to be practically ******** in order to let you win, because you'd need to kill 3 of them, and they'd know where you were after the 1st death, regardless of if they're using sitrep or not.

Yeah, they know I need to kill them all and go defuse the bomb, but they don't know where I'm coming from. I get clutches 1v3 (and above) all the time, so for you to say they have to be ******** is hilarious. I flank where they don't expect me, kill one, then either they chase me and I kill them or I flank them again, or I fake a flank and go back through where their teammate died after a few seconds. It's just yomi mixed in with knowing how to use the map to your advantage for things like height advantage or easy flash/stun spots. All of that strategy goes out the window as soon as they can hear where I'm walking. I wouldn't be able to get the original flank in the first place. They just disperse themselves around the bomb until they hear me.

Also, like you said before, if you need to approach the bomb site, the enemy is likely camping it. Which, like you said before, means that they're in extremely obvious and predictable locations. You should be able to deal with them, right?

Just because they planted the bomb doesn't mean they'll be hiding in obvious spots. I said you can frequently find bad players in obvious spots with routine flashes/stuns and corner checking. You can't flash/C4 every opponent obviously, so you are usually left with having to manually check corners with ADS later in the round. This is impossible with SitRep because you can never come up behind someone camping.

So, equipment usage forcing you to a perk is okay, but perk usage isn't? There are plenty of ways to beat people using SitRep, lol. Besides, if they're really corner camping you like you say, their third perk doesn't actually matter.

No, I said NEITHER is okay. You should NEVER be forced to use ANY perk because then it just makes it a wasted perk. I meant if DS was a counter to SitRep, I could get over it. I have always hated having to use DS, but at least it made the game playable because I could move without BKs soundwhoring me. Now I have to use DS for the 50% of kids without SitRep Pro, and I am STILL going to be sound*****d.

By the way, try ADS walking with Stalker. It keeps you quiet, lets you move quickly, and gives you the ADS bonus you're looking for. :O

You can hear people ADSing with (and without) Stalker...

Why the hell should there be a free perk that lets people run around silently anyways? That's not being sneaky. I remember when flanking people actually required effort, not a Ninja/Dead Silence class to let you SPRINT around the enemy team without making noise.

And obviously perk/equipment balance needs to be redone, lol. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

It's not a free perk. It's just the way the game should be made. You shouldn't able to find and kill someone because you heard them moving. That's ********. Everything they add to the CoD series is designed to promote camping. Getting rid of footsteps would be a great first step to promoting more aggressive and intelligent play over camping and listening with no thought required at all. You remember when flanking people actually required effort? All you talked about your whole post was how it was impossible to flank people even when they COULDN'T hear your every move. The fact that you don't see anything wrong with kids being able to hear enemies moving around scares me. It is so obviously a broken mechanic I expected everyone posting here to be like "OMG I KNOW, RIGHT? SITREP IS SO LAME." It's certainly like that in the SnD playlist. Even the kids that use SitRep largely agree that it's broken.

 

[Delta-cod]

Actually, it barely cancels it at all.

MW2: SitRep Pro vs. Ninja
MW3: SitRep Pro vs. Dead Silence

You can identify movement not only by enemy footsteps, though. There's some rustling noise they make, which you can hear from further away than what is presented in the MW2 video.

Also, I would never ever take a youtube video over playing the game with a headset for data using these perks. It changes wayyyyy too much.

Either way, MW2 is irrelevant.

Wretched, use SitRep. Nobody uses HBS frequently, and seeing equipment and hearing people is amazing.

Just because there is an objective doesn't mean you're forced to go towards it. In fact, I would say I make it a habit to get to the objective with the longest round-about way possible because it keeps me safe from people who camp the objectives. For instance, on Hardhat offense I frequently flank through the left past the bulldozer and come up behind people. Do people try to cut me off? Obviously. But it's not like they are ever in some clearly superior position when doing so. It's certainly not impossible to break any defense as long as you can win gunfights, and gunfights will never be unwinnable as long as you don't walk around corners without the proper precautions.

It doesn't matter how long you take, you actually have to move to the objective, or you lose.

Or you could be like those kids we play in Dom all the time. They sure win lots of games by camping in their spawn and not moving to the objective.

LOL This kind of mentality is exactly why most people suck hard at SnD. They just try to camp and then they get flanked by good players. If they camp far enough back that they can't be flanked or flashed/stunned, then it means they are too far back to protect both bombs. Obviously there are some exceptions. Dome in particular is just a bad SnD map because you have no options, and if you have a 6v2 situation or something, yeah, you can just out-camp the last 2 guys. It also happens when offense is trying to camp. Every second that ticks by is in the defense's favor, so they have no reason to rush. One team refusing to engage the other at all doesn't mean the other team is camping.

You cannot flank any good team unless you start killing them off.

Flanking at the start of a round means nothing because there are still limited paths to where you can go. Let's take your hardhat example:

Defense spawns by A Flag, domination. Two people move center. This covers the pipes and the pathway from B Flag. You can send one, or two, people to the right. This covers the long distance, barren wasteland that is the B flag "corridor". They don't even need to camp the bulldozer, as that exposes them to enemy fire. They can hide in the corner, which forces you, if you want to approach them (not that you have much choice), to expose yourself completely, or waste your equipment. They can also hide in the construction area, which provides them with cover and prevents you from flanking. There's a nice spot in there behind a "box" that allows you to see the entrance to that area while in really good cover. Wanna go around C flag towards the B Bomb Site? It takes the enemy practically no time to set up there, either. One guy runs up the hill and camps behind the light fixture. This grants him cover from other angles and the perfect sight-line down the only way to actually leave the construction-fence maze. You have to move into his line of sight to leave. A second man can easily cover the hill by the dumpster-bin by moving closer to the bomb site and laying prone. The first person that went this man will cover his flank as he stares at the hill. Boom, all avenues of approach are on lock, from LONG DISTANCE. SitRep doesn't matter.

On offense, you spawn by the C Flag complex. Sure, you stand a chance if you rush B or A and throw a bunch of **** before they get into position, but the people on defense can just throw **** back at you to slow you down.

Even if they're not in position, you actually can't "sneak" around them. You only have THREE options. That's ****ing terrible. SitRep or not, I'd know where you're coming from and I don't even need to hear you.

If defense can be an impenetrable force like you say, then why does everyone use SitRep in SnD? Surely it's just a waste of a perk when they could be using Marksman to better guard chokepoints.

To see claymores and Motion Sensors. And because people are bad at picking perks that actually help with what they're doing.

Except you can't sneak around because walking is too loud... derp

Crouch Walk ADS with Stalker. You are now moving at a respectable pace, quietly, and with your gun ready.

Punching a hole in the defense doesn't automatically grant you access to a bomb site. You can rarely plant before they have at least 3 people down.

If it doesn't, it means that the enemy team is moving to fill the hole, which means they're approaching you anyways. Which means SitRep isn't helping.

I must suck at camping choke points then because I can't recall many spots where I can sit uncontested and ADS the whole round.

Not all choke points are equal. However, as I outlined on Hardhat, you'd be extremely hard-pressed to pass a team of competent players (read: not randoms) that locked things down like that.

Resistance is one of the campiest maps and there are 4 choke points. B hall, gate, middle house, and staircase. Among all of those though are multiple places you can shoot from. If you're coming from the gate, you can peek over the top or out the side.

Enemy hides behind the gate on their side, near the B flag alleyway, far back enough so that the only viable shot to shoot them from is peeking out over the top. If you try to leave, they can see you. Covered. By one man.

If you're in the house you can peek through the 2nd floor window, 1st floor window, or 1st floor doorway.

2nd floor window, from what I could find, only lets you see the top of the balcony. Someone can just camp the lower levels to avoid this. You still can only leave from the doorway or window, lol.

The A flag stairway is bad unless you get lucky rushing. And B flag alleyway is lol.

So even with so few chokepoints for the offense to work, they can quite easily poke out somewhere to get a kill or two. And the only time they'd have to resort to this is if no one is able to get a flash/stun in the beginning of the round and capitalize on that. On a map like Arkaden or Hardhat, both teams have the opportunity to flash/stun and kill each other just seconds into the game. Camping far enough back to avoid that risk just yields more map control to the other team.

The explosive beginnings of a Search match are not effected, at all, by Sitrep. Poking a hole will always force the team on defense to move, which lets you hear them (and lets them hear you if you're moving), which is a more even relationship.

Yeah, they know I need to kill them all and go defuse the bomb, but they don't know where I'm coming from. I get clutches 1v3 (and above) all the time, so for you to say they have to be ******** is hilarious. I flank where they don't expect me, kill one, then either they chase me and I kill them or I flank them again, or I fake a flank and go back through where their teammate died after a few seconds. It's just yomi mixed in with knowing how to use the map to your advantage for things like height advantage or easy flash/stun spots. All of that strategy goes out the window as soon as they can hear where I'm walking. I wouldn't be able to get the original flank in the first place. They just disperse themselves around the bomb until they hear me.

If you have time to flank (which involves taking a longer route), kill a person, retreat, flank, kill a second person, retreat, flank, and kill the third, AND defuse, then yes, you're playing ******** people when you clutch. And I'm aware of how possible this is. I've clutched 1v5s, or even 1v6s. I've carried entire Search teams on my back. I've rushed, punched holes through people's defenses, planted, and defended the bomb against the rest of the team, alone.

The people you encounter online SUCK. Tell me, how frequently do you think you pull 1v3 clutches off against full party clans? How often do you think you'd be able to do such a thing against, say, Team SWF?

Probably never, because we're not terrible. Stalling someone who has to approach, kill 3 people, and defuse a bomb in 45 seconds is NOT hard, especially if you have the numbers. It's only moderately difficult even if you don't have the numbers on your side.

Just because they planted the bomb doesn't mean they'll be hiding in obvious spots. I said you can frequently find bad players in obvious spots with routine flashes/stuns and corner checking. You can't flash/C4 every opponent obviously, so you are usually left with having to manually check corners with ADS later in the round. This is impossible with SitRep because you can never come up behind someone camping.

When people plant the bomb, they will always always always be in close proximity of the bomb, unless they have a heavy numbers advantage and can afford to leave because they still have 2 or 3 guys left around the bomb site. And in that case, you're screwed regardless.

If you're out of flashes/C4s, you'd be hard pressed to break that defensive circle, even if they're not using SitRep. Because the second you kill one guy, you let the enemy know what direction you're in.

Take B Site in Hardhat. I have a team of 3 people and we plant. One guy looks down the construction-fence yard. One guy covers the hill to the pipes, and one guy covers the porta-john area. If you kill the guy by the porta-john (A flag), then you're over in that direction. At this point, it doesn't matter if you flank, because it'll take you SO LONG to do so that you won't defuse. Send one guy over, but not in a dangerous location so he can't die to force a 1v1, and you still lose, SitRep be damned.

No, I said NEITHER is okay. You should NEVER be forced to use ANY perk because then it just makes it a wasted perk. I meant if DS was a counter to SitRep, I could get over it. I have always hated having to use DS, but at least it made the game playable because I could move without BKs soundwhoring me. Now I have to use DS for the 50% of kids without SitRep Pro, and I am STILL going to be sound*****d.

If they're so bad, why aren't you just outgunning them? If you're in a location for them to hear you, it means they're nearby (if you're using DS), which means they're in corners and not at chokepoints. And it's pretty easy to kill a corner-camper once you start knowing the reliable corners and you start checking them reliably.

It's not a free perk. It's just the way the game should be made. You shouldn't able to find and kill someone because you heard them moving. That's ********. Everything they add to the CoD series is designed to promote camping. Getting rid of footsteps would be a great first step to promoting more aggressive and intelligent play over camping and listening with no thought required at all. You remember when flanking people actually required effort? All you talked about your whole post was how it was impossible to flank people even when they COULDN'T hear your every move. The fact that you don't see anything wrong with kids being able to hear enemies moving around scares me. It is so obviously a broken mechanic I expected everyone posting here to be like "OMG I KNOW, RIGHT? SITREP IS SO LAME." It's certainly like that in the SnD playlist. Even the kids that use SitRep largely agree that it's broken.

MW2, Marathon, LW(CB), Ninja. Free flanks.
Black Ops doesn't matter because footsteps don't really work in that game well.
I'd flank more reliably in MW3 is Marathon was infinite sprint. But it's not. And by the time I get behind people, there's either a UAV up, or the people I aimed to flank were killed.

SitRep is very good, by far the best 3rd tier perk, but it's not broken. Camping in general is just so far and away such a powerful option that anything that makes you even stronger makes it broken. Like, I could beat a bunch of kids while camping with no perks and no attachments. It's easy.

I should note that flanking in Search against a competent team on Defense should always nearly be impossible. There's just not enough going on to give you opportunities to sneak past people.


Super Edit Maniac Deluxe Two: Anyone wanna play MW2? I tolerate it's bull**** much better than MW3's.

 

[Bones0]

Whatever dude. Your entire argument consists of "SitRep Pro is irrelevant because it's already impossible to move around and flank unpredictably." Not really in the mood to discuss theory-CoD. Can you really say that SitRep Pro doesn't have a huge negative impact on random SnD or FFA pubs where not everyone is doing ACR setups while camping the whole game? If I go into a game by myself and no one has SitRep Pro, I can run around and do really good. When just one player on the other team or in a FFA has SitRep Pro, I can't move without that kid's headset saving his life. If you honestly have no problem with that, then I don't know what to tell you.