Challenger Approaching!!! ROY!! .PAC UP!!!! 12/7/09 at 3:36 AM EST

[goodoldganon]

1157DBE0

That was Roy's gravity before the .PAC and everyone loved it. We need to emulate that.

Found the info. I work tomorrow but if someone hasn't edited the gravity by the time I get back I should be able to do it.

• 11 is the character ID (irrelevant with PSA)
• 5 is his short hop height which is set to 1.025
• 7 is his full hop height which is set to 1.075 (that's tied to double jump under the old gravity codes)
• D is his fast fall which is set to 1.25
• B is his down grav which is set to 1.175
• E is his full grav which is set to 1.3

The last number is just a placeholder.

EDIT: I see PSA allows me to adjust to weight. To make Roy a little harder to combo on I was thinking of making him a little lighter. Thoughts?

 

[Strong Badam]

I'm pretty sure it's kinda low on the priority list. Brawl+ getting a definitive version is probably more important than the clone engine. In any case, most of us have no idea.

the people making the Brawl + codesets and the people coding new engines and such are different groups of people, though they share some people. the brawl + codesets can be done at this point by the WBR without much help; the only REAL codes left to do (other than getting DDD and Pokemons to work as .pacs) would be a clone engine and model hacking. I can see those two be done within the next year, though. I remember when Brawl + was basically nothing; just a wavedashing code that sucked. It's been maybe a year since then and now look at Brawl+. The hacking community is too good.

Also, I tried out the Roy .pac. It's pretty awesome <3. Other than different slash sounds/voice clips (and perhaps a height hack but no one cares), it's lookin' pretty good guys

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Oh, and can you decrease the charge time of neutral B? it is horrendusly long. -.-

 

[goodoldganon]

Oh, and can you decrease the charge time of neutral B? it is horrendusly long. -.-

I wouldn't mind a second off, but you never saw it land in Melee. It's not supposed to be anything good, just a for fun lulz move.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

I wouldn't mind a second off, but you never saw it land in Melee. It's not supposed to be anything good, just a for fun lulz move.

Yeah, but its like 10 seconds to charge. Could we make it like a second longer than Marth's shield breaker?

 

[The Immortal Sir NZ]

Yeah, but its like 10 seconds to charge. Could we make it like a second longer than Marth's shield breaker?

I would say about 1 and half seconds sounds about right.

I wouldn't mind a second off, but you never saw it land in Melee. It's not supposed to be anything good, just a for fun lulz move.

punishment for those that don't sweetspot the ledge maybe?

 

[cookieM0Nster]

I would say about 1 and half seconds sounds about right.

That sounds about right.

punishment for those that don't sweetspot the ledge maybe?

Exactly my thoughts.

 

[timothyung]

Ah, GoG, you know, you can't do frame speed mods with PSA yet. So for the gravity and speed mods, use the codes.

 

[comboking]

Can you link to the new Roy thread?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqwCbBqu-rM dang roy looks good in all versions of brawl

Since I haven't got too test the new vBrawl PAC i don't know how epic he is. He looks better with the PSM hack IMO.

 

[smashmaniac2008]

new Roy thread? where?

 

[comboking]

I thought there was a new one made but I can't find it.

 

[Bladefist137]

Could anyone help me please with the Roy.pac files? Or rather any .pac that changes movesets of characters or changing the colour of the attack.

The problem I have with it is that it does works but when it does, all the character's sound effects are gone except the smash charging sound and the sword when it makes contact with your opponent

I have a PAL copy of Brawl and i'm using the PAL version of the file replacement code 2.1v.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

use file replacement code 3.5.1. it's better....although I don't know whether there's a pal version of that code yet....


I think it's just that your pal....Europe gets so unlucky with brawl+... sorry dude.

 

[timothyung]

I checked the pac, pretty much everything is done. Though I made some changes on physics.

Changes from 1.5b pac:
Walk Maximum Speed: 1.21 from 1.5 (Between Toon Link and DK)
Stopping Velocity (Friction): 0.06 from 0.055 (Slightly higher than Marth's. The friction ranking changes a lot from Melee)
Run Initial Velocity (Running Speed): 1.65 from 1.622 (Average of Yoshi and DK)
Jump V Initial Velocity, Hop V Initial Velocity, Gravity, Terminal Gravity back to Marth values. Use the gravity code instead until we can perfectly port those values to PSA

Here's the pac: v1.5.1

BTW I noticed Roy's weight is increased by 2 to 89... just saying

@Bladefist137: Yeah the sound effects ID are different. We need a converter for that.

GoG: Put the txt back up, especially the frame speed and gravity mods. Hitbox mods of Marth are not needed, though

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Edit: Nvm .........

 

[leafgreen386]

For reference... melee weights:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=30064&highlight=weight

Weight - measures how far characters get knocked HORIZONTALLY, or left and right. This list I tested from the Mushroom Kingdom 2 weight scale. Also someone helped me with this by RATING the weights (Mario = 100, a.k.a. average), which is shown on the far left side. I rechecked his work and fixed the mistakes in it, and here is the list.

--- 117 --- (1) Bowser
--- 114 --- (2) DK
--- 110 --- (3) Samus
--- 109 --- (4) Ganondorf
--- 108 --- (5) Yoshi
--- 104 --- (6-7) Captain Falcon / Link
--- 100 --- (8-10) Dr. Mario / Luigi / Mario
--- 94 --- (11) Ness
--- 90 --- (12-14) Peach / Sheik / Zelda
--- 88 --- (15) Ice Climbers
--- 87 --- (16) Marth
--- 85 --- (17-19) Mewtwo / Roy / Young Link
--- 80 --- (20-21) Falco / Pikachu
--- 75 --- (22) Fox
--- 70 --- (23) Kirby
--- 60 --- (24-25) Jigglypuff / Mr. Game & Watch
--- 55 --- (26) Pichu

Credits: Blake Mutschler and Aaron Kurtz (and me of course for fixing the mistakes they made and adding Misc. related data about it)

If that doesn't make deciding what roy's brawl+ weight should be ridiculously easy then I don't know what does.

Now do people believe me when I say roy was lighter than marth in melee, and he just fell faster?

What's particularly interesting about that list is that the data was actually obtained by experiment, not by delving into the game's data, like we're doing. It's pretty remarkable just how accurate it was, with most of the weights either matching or being one or two off, which could just as easily be attributed to sakurai buffing or nerfing the characters in question, with the more egregious differences clearly being due to buffs or nerfs. The most notable changes were in the lightweight division, which received obvious "buffs," where jiggs and gaw got bumped up from 60 to 68 and 75, respectively, kirby got bumped up from 70 to 78, and fox from 75 to 80 (I guess sakurai realized he was nerfing fox pretty hardcore and decided to give him a little break? Dunno). Also notable is that zelda and sheik got bumped down from 90 to 85.

Anyway, roy's weight should be 85 to stay true to his melee incarnation.

 

[Strong Badam]

ehh the term "lighter," can be taken many ways. it could refer to falling speed ("heavier" chars fall faster, but the real heavies are obviously DK and Bowser) or the attribute of "weight," which determines horizontal knockback and most throw speeds. Fox is one of the most difficult characters to KO vertically, but his falling speed + weight make him pretty easy to kill horizontally.

I'm going to go try 1.5.1 and then give some feedback later. peace

 

[comboking]

Is anyone else here going to play Roy in Vbrawl? His weight and hitboxes will be the same as his Brawl+ counterpart? Right?
In BBrawl Roy is good too.

 

[leafgreen386]

ehh the term "lighter," can be taken many ways. it could refer to falling speed ("heavier" chars fall faster, but the real heavies are obviously DK and Bowser) or the attribute of "weight," which determines horizontal knockback and most throw speeds. Fox is one of the most difficult characters to KO vertically, but his falling speed + weight make him pretty easy to kill horizontally.

Thanks for pointing that out, Captain Obvious! You think I don't fricking know about that? I hate the current terminology because it frequently causes unnecessary confusion, but it's what we have, and it should be understood at this point by all parties that the terms "light" and "heavy" refer to weight, whereas the terms "floaty" and "fast faller" refer to fall speed. Fox is a light fast faller. Samus is a heavy floaty. At this point in smash's life, these things should be understood by the general (competitive) smash population. Whether or not people actually make these distinctions in play or not is irrelevant, but most people recognize the difference between "weight" and "fall speed" in conversation.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Thanks for pointing that out, Captain Obvious! You think I don't fricking know about that? I hate the current terminology because it frequently causes unnecessary confusion, but it's what we have, and it should be understood at this point by all parties that the terms "light" and "heavy" refer to weight, whereas the terms "floaty" and "fast faller" refer to fall speed. Fox is a light fast faller. Samus is a heavy floaty. At this point in smash's life, these things should be understood by the general (competitive) smash population. Whether or not people actually make these distinctions in play or not is irrelevant, but most people recognize the difference between "weight" and "fall speed" in conversation.

^^^^You sir, have just won the internet.

 

[timothyung]

Didn't he test the weights using the platforms on Mushroom Kingdom?

OK I tested the 1.5.1 pac with the latest Roy codes. Here's my results:

Running speed is too fast. Though it's slower than Yoshi, the difference is really small. So I say just leave it at 1.622
Others like gravity working
Usmash have missing hitboxes due to the speed mods. It can be fixed by either PSA or speed mods. And more hitlag?
UpB is connecting OK... but cetainly it can be improved. And it needs to be slowed down even more. Also, needs more hitlag?
Third hit down side B more hitlag
Ah, maybe the whole sideB can have a little more hitlag and different slash effect.
Neutral B... You can use it to aid recovery due to its speed and momentum. Keep it or not? And the midair version...can you just use the Fsmash animation? And the charging animation needs to be slower, to 1/4, if it doesn't affect dsmash.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

wtf? no, that's nerfing him to the extreme. and make the CHARGE TIME LONGER1!! WTF


WHY DO YOU WANT TO NERF HIM SO MUCH?

 

[comboking]

UpB is perfect where its at. o_O

 

[timothyung]

What? Nerf? Are you thinking that hitlag is the lag after move? And making the animation slower would not slow down the charge time itself. Just to make the animation match the charge time

UpB is perfect where its at. o_O

It might be perfect without the codes, but with the codes it doesn't connect sometimes. And it needs to be slower like in Melee... so it needs to be tweaked.

 

[comboking]

Sorry, I haven't got to test the latest PAC file. What codes are you reffering to btw?

 

[timothyung]

Sorry, I haven't got to test the latest PAC file. What codes are you reffering to btw?

Before the pac, we use codes to create Roy, which includes changes to the speed of moves, and gravity changes. With PSA we can do many things that we can't with codes, but we can't change the speed yet. So I used the codes with the pac file so it's what Roy should be. Apparently GoG doesn't know that we still need codes to do speed mods, so he removed the txt and gct

 

[camelot]

Man, I was hoping we wouldn't have to use speed mods for this Roy (so we don't need a separate codeset for Roy). The only things that would truly need to be slowed would be his f-smash, Blazer, and DED. Maybe PSA will eventually be able to do frame speed changes... but in my opinion, until we can do that, or if PW says it's impossible, we should not have any frame speed changes and tweak the moves for the current speeds.

I'll work on porting the gravity from the codeset to PSA... should be easy

 

[comboking]

Oh I see sorry.

 

[timothyung]

It's OK if their's a version Roy who doesn't need speed mods, but Brawl+ Roy needs them. And before the pac was even released, we're already using speed mods for Roy.
The gravity shouldn't be very easy because there are down gravity and full gravity in the code

 

[Strong Badam]

Thanks for pointing that out, Captain Obvious! You think I don't fricking know about that?

I wasn't contradicting you; I was just adding to how easily people can make the mistake that Roy is heavier than Marth. Jesus.

 

[camelot]

It's OK if their's a version Roy who doesn't need speed mods, but Brawl+ Roy needs them. And before the pac was even released, we're already using speed mods for Roy.
The gravity shouldn't be very easy because there are down gravity and full gravity in the code

No, I just ported the gravity and jump heights perfectly. They're the same as with the codes now.

Down grav = terminal velocity.

 

[comboking]

So we don't need the codes?

 

[camelot]

For gravity, no. I have the values in PSA perfectly. For frame speed changes, I'd still recommend you take them off, because of hitbox issues.

 

[comboking]

Then what code do I need? Could you post it?

 

[Dark Sonic]

Yes you need the codes for various speed mods including ALR, and various other speed changes.

And Camelot, a lot of the frame speed changes for Roy are to make Roy...not suck .
Brawl+ Roy needs them to be on par with the rest of the cast.

 

[camelot]

Just the regular Nightly codes, comboking.

Also, here's what I have since yesterday...

- Blazer has new voice sound effects, full charge has super armor and makes the screen shake
- U-smash hitlag changed from 0.7x to 1.0x
- DED 3rd down hit hitlag from 0.3x to 1.2x
- DED 4th down hit hitlag from 0.5x to 1.0x (last hit 1.2x)
- Walk speed is at 1.21 from 1.5 (same value tsunami put it at)
- Same deal with friction, tsunami's value of 0.06 from 0.055
- Grav values from GoG's set are ported over
- Ledge jumps aren't ridiculously small anymore
- Weight is at 85

What else do we need?

 

[goodoldganon]

Just the regular Nightly codes, comboking.

Also, here's what I have since yesterday...

- Blazer has new voice sound effects, full charge has super armor and makes the screen shake
- U-smash hitlag changed from 0.7x to 1.0x
- DED 3rd down hit hitlag from 0.3x to 1.2x
- DED 4th down hit hitlag from 0.5x to 1.0x (last hit 1.2x)
- Walk speed is at 1.21 from 1.5 (same value tsunami put it at)
- Same deal with friction, tsunami's value of 0.06 from 0.055
- Grav values from GoG's set are ported over
- Ledge jumps aren't ridiculously small anymore
- Weight is at 85

What else do we need?

Sounds great, I'll port over his frame speed adjustments as soon as you release the pac and attach it to the latest nightly.

EDIT: UP-B needs hitlag. I'd say 1.0x

 

[timothyung]

Then what code do I need? Could you post it?

GoG removed it... yeah, wait for GoG to put it back, or someone to post it. I don't have the txt, I just have the snapshot file.
Or you can go here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7829653&postcount=787
It's the vBrawl set with only the Roy changes

 

[comboking]

I need the code i am confussed

 

[goodoldganon]

Frame Speed Modifier Data [24 Lines]
065A9400 000000B8
11258062 3FA00000
11008065 3F8CCCCC
11090114 3FC00000 
11030114 3F4CCCCC 
11000114 40000000
110B0027 40000000
111A002C 3F800000
110F002C 40000000
110A002C 3F800000
1109002C 3E000000
1106002C 3F800000
1104002C 3F000000
11150029 3FA00000
110A8066 3F8CCCCD
1100806A 40A00000
11000018 40200000
111E0032 3F800000
110A0032 41A00000
11090032 3E800000
11050032 3F800000
11000032 3F000000
11000031 3F000000
00000000 00000000

Those are Roy's frame adjustments. I thought PSA did that, obviously it does not. As I said, it will be added. I need to figure out when we are releasing the next nightly and if the engine codes are finished. Otherwise I'll have to take all of Lucas's frame mods out again.

NOTE: That is for vBrawl. If you would like to add it to you own sets my fellow Brawl+ers then just copy all the lines starting with 11 over and adjust the hex value.