Character Matchups & Strategies, v.2

[Pikabunz]

Oh, I lost to Atomsk's D3 that way on ladder. He got lucky with the gordos too. =/

I know you can beat him ESAM.

 

[KayLo!]

Ftilt's annoying, but it's unsafe for him on block.

Dair's definitely more aggravating than people give it credit for, though. -_- You can DI out of it pretty easily, and it's unsafe even on hit if he lands with it, but if he's FH dairing away..... just gotta wait for him to land. It's irritating.

I have the most trouble with getting pressured to the ledge. Tjolt's reaaaaally easily pshielded, so when I'm camping, I run out of space. And getting past DDD is dumb hard if he predicts you in the slightest.

EDIT: Also, what Prime said. He's from NJ, so I don't have to root for him.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I lost to Atomsk in a MM 2-1 (I didn't adapt since he was sandbagging first match) and the 9b is very effective. F-tilt is safe on shield of the space it, and if they whiff it because we are too far we can't punish. I honestly don't know how to fight against it in theory. I need to play Atomsk more since he is way better than seibrik.

 

[KayLo!]

If you're at the tip of his ftilt, both people are at completely neutral positioning.

But there's a space right ~inside the hammer of his ftilt where Pika's got the complete advantage in positioning. If he ftilts, he gets punished; if he grabs, he'll whiff. All of his other options are unsafe or require him to retreat (the only exception is a dash grab I guess), and if he goes to the air, you can then attempt to punish his landing.

Now, staying at that exact point is ****ing annoying and probably not realistic over the course of an entire match. But "in theory" that's what I'd suggest trying to work with.

 

[Ussi]

I suggest power shielding the ftilt. You can do it on reaction... if while rushing in he doesn't do ftilt, do a fair to avoid an attempt to grab.... pure theorycraft here

 

[KayLo!]

Frames on DDD's ftilt:

Total: 48
First hit on Frame 12
Shield hit Lag: 7
Opponent Shield Lag: 9
Cool Down Frames: 19-48

Their frame data sucks, but it gives a good enough idea. -____-

Theoretically we might be able to punish it on block no matter what (30 frames is a long *** time), but shield stun & push might make that impossible at its max range. Can't tell off the top of my head, but Prime said he's gonna look into it.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

OK, cuz that info would be very helpful.

 

[Aqua S.G.]

pikachu does not have a huge selection of moves. they sometimes get reptative. how do you win with him?

 

[ElNoNombreHombre]

pikachu does not have a huge selection of moves. they sometimes get reptative. how do you win with him?

First off, this question is not a matchup-related question, and would be better served in the Q&A thread.

Second, your first two statements are incorrect (for pikachus above newbie level). Beyond the fact that he has exactly the same number of move slots as everyone else, every single one of his moves is useful in some situation (though admittedly, some moves are significantly better than others). In an average match, I find I use most (if not all) of Pika's arsenal at least once (and I'm only mediocre-level on a good day--go YouTube Anther if you really wanna see some crazy Pika mixups).

Third, we have a TOP TIER GUIDE on how to use pikachu located on this board already, if you're actually interested in learning our electric rodent. The long and short of it is, "Pikachu has the tools to be incredibly unpredictable. Abuse this mightily, for it is your greatest weapon."

---

If I may put in a request for the next matchup discussion thread, could we please do Mario for one of them? The plumber in red honestly baffles me to no end, and I am not sure why.

 

[KayLo!]

Mario next? Sure thing.

I really need to bump the Peach + TL threads so we can finish them, but I'm probably going to wait until people are done with finals. People seem to be kinda busy lately.

 

[Syko_Lemming]

Why is there no Pika vs pika matchup guide?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

It is spacing and general strategies (F_throw U-smash at low %s, D-throw nair at mid) and there is no point in doing it since you know the character. You know what they can do and vice-versa, so having a thread on it would be pointless.

 

[Ussi]

i always do fthrow > dthrow x2 in Pika dittos from 0%

 

[KayLo!]

What ESAM said.

Dittos are ********. Generally whoever approaches loses, lol, except maybe in MK dittos.

 

[Zolga Owns]

What ESAM said.

Dittos are ********. Generally whoever approaches loses, lol, except maybe in MK dittos.

I approached and won in Zelda dittos. <3

(Tehe but then you beat me in Pika dittos FFFFFFF-)

I despise Dittos.

 

[KayLo!]

Wut. I approached (first anyways)! >=X

Bandit even made fun of me for doing it afterward. x.x

 

[Zolga Owns]

Then you stopped a bit and I was like "Oh whatever I'll just risk it" and I SH airdodges and shiz towards you.

Bandit was like "No experienced Zelda approaches in the ditto." or something right?

 

[KayLo!]

Yeah something like that. Zelda dittos shouldn't exist in the first place anyway lol.

 

[Pikabunz]

Pika dittos are legit and fun.

 

[Syko_Lemming]

Pika dittos are legit and fun.

Man knows what he's talkin about.

 

[Roller]

Pika dittos are legit and fun.

This. And I actually should work on the ditto...

I used to know it so well back when everyone had to play me to get into High Voltage. lol

 

[napZzz]

looking at your snake matchup I saw some flaws you should fix

all 3 hits of jab dont connect unless you are airborne when caught by it and dont touch the ground. You can shield otherwise after the 2nd hit

Ftilt does 21% max

I'm pretty sure jab-ftilt isn't GUARANTEED, only if you're hit by a certain part of it. Jab grab is there just for the pure mixup as well

Ftilt only trips you if the first hit connects AND THATS VERY RARE, it doesn't trip your shield so its impossible to say "its impossible to escape from because of the trip" anyways

 

[KayLo!]

That Snake MU thread is incredibly outdated, hence its being under "Outdated Discussions".

 

[KayLo!]

The Mario re-discussion thread is up:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=275702

 

[Hater]

Imo Diddy Mu is 50+ pi: 50- pi Diddy kongs favour

 

[KayLo!]

I..... don't understand your notation at all, Hater.

Are you saying it's evenish but slightly in Diddy's favor?

 

[Pikabunz]

I know this is a late response, but I think he's saying 53.14:46.86. He's making fun of the way our MU numbers are.

 

[KayLo!]

Ah.

Anyways, I closed all the old MU threads we've done re-discussions for. The ones we haven't gone over again yet are still open, but I got tired of people bumping old threads for matchups we have new ones for.

 

[DUB]

Somethings on the DK matchup...

• On stages where you can pass through the bottom (Halberd/Delfino) DK can laglessly Up+B to Grabs/D-smash. Pika's D-smash is a really easy way to deal with this move when DK is coming from below.

• 
  When F-throw chaingrabbing on stages with slopes (Frigate/Lylat) DK can Up+B out of it in the right location. Wait and properly punish.

• 
  Landing behind him with airdodges is a little more difficult to do imo. His up tilt is beast and covers good range on both sides and above. Not to mention it's quick and will kill at 140ish (i think)

• 
  Alternating T-jolts on the ground and platforms are great against DK. His head is high enough to catch the T-jolt as it loops around the platform.

• 
  Something to be cautious of. T-jolting while returning to the stage if DK is coming at you. I got killed a few times from b-airs going right through my t-jolt. F-air will too and it's hitbox is even dumber.

• 
  Don't skullbash blindly. He will absolutely destroy that move. Doing it really high up is the only time I'd use it to recover.

• 
  If you are F-throwing him and you get to the end of the stage and he only has like 30%, you can backthrow run up and shield. If he b-airs, grab it, if he jumps, up-air into something. Sliding shields into his f-tilts is a great way to land the grab as well. If you mess up the spacing the grab is easy to land due to f-tilts cooldown.

• 
  General vs. DK knowledge. You can't really charge smashes as he is falling to the ground or on the edge if he has a DK punch. It's a free 30% or kill for DK to just plow right through your move with pawnch. Also, if you are shield grab happy and DK notices it, expect him to replace b-airs with headbutts on your grabs. Most of the time you can duck OoS and then grab this or anything else.

 

[a male platypus]

only a 68 against Fox? I would think that would be much higher

 

[Lore]

I'm sorry for not working on this, guys. I've been really, really busy, but I will definitely start working on the op after this month.

Trust me, this is going to be an awesome thread when I'm done with it.

 

[SR016]

Olimar matches r no fun

 

[TheMike]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=271182

Please contribute!

 

[Leaf.]

Umm...

Where are our MU threads and stuff?
It feels like a slow day at work, and I don't like those. Let's talk about something MU related and advance the metagame or something.

 

[Pikabunz]

Werekill doesn't want this thread anymore. Does anyone want it? =/

 

[ElNoNombreHombre]

Well, since no one is volunteering, I guess I could take it for a bit.

 

[Pikabunz]

You got OP now.

 

[ElNoNombreHombre]

OK, posting just so this lights up and hopefully draws some attention the new OP.

Vote for who you wanna talk about next. You've got until whenever I get around to making the threads Monday.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Lucario cha cha cha

 

[Leaf.]

Yeah, Lucario. I wasn't winning most of those matches at APEX against them.
Plus, I have Trela and RT right down the road so I can practice while we talk about it.